TJ Falls to 14th in the Nation Per US News

Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:Why are people making graphs suggesting essays are something other than merit?


I'm not commenting on the graphs, but regarding essays:

The essays may convey some notion of merit, but it is a far more ambiguous notion of merit. Two different evaluators may score the same essay quite differently. Furthermore, an essay-writing evaluation would also be heavily influenced the writer's ability to sway the reader with their writing, a skill which some might not consider to be of most prominent importance for admissions to a STEM school. Finally, essay scores would be influenced by native English speaking ability, which is not a metric of merit.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
TJ isn’t usually #1. The rankings are volatile because the infinitesimal differences between the top schools.

2015 #1
2016 #1
2017 #2
2018 #1
2019 #1
2020 #2
2021 #1 (admissions changed from merit to equity lottery)
2022 #1
2023 #5
2024 #14

2025 #??
It might stay in double digits for a while

With bottom fourth filled with lowest math algebra 1 students, the slide has just begun.



THE NUMBERS ABOVE ARE BLATANT LIES.

The PP edited the #s above - they are wrong. Can’t make a valid argument without blatantly lying, eh?

Here are the correct rankings. Double digits is nothing new.

2015 #3
2016 #5
2017 #20
2018 #6
2019 #10
2020 #4
2021 #1
2022 #1
2023 #5
2024 #14

TJ isn’t usually #1. The rankings are volatile because the infinitesimal differences between the top schools.


Can you provide a cite for your 2017 ranking? This link says TJ was #6 in 2017.
https://patch.com/us/across-america/americas-best-high-schools-2017-u-s-news-world-report


I started with the wikipedia info and then filled in with local news articles. It looks like wiki has multiple inconsistencies with news articles. There could be some discrepancy whether they were looking at all high schools vs. magnet schools.

We can verify all numbers after internet archive is available again (currently has DOS attack).

Archive shows TJ was #6 in 2017 for all high schools, not #20.
https://web.archive.org/web/20170524/https://www.usnews.com/education/best-high-schools/national-rankings

TJ was never as low as #14. Equity liars keep pushing lies, until faced with facts. what's new.

So much manipulation to conceal race based admission. Equity minions going crazy, flooding this forum with fantasy stories.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Why are people making graphs suggesting essays are something other than merit?


I'm not commenting on the graphs, but regarding essays:

The essays may convey some notion of merit, but it is a far more ambiguous notion of merit. Two different evaluators may score the same essay quite differently. Furthermore, an essay-writing evaluation would also be heavily influenced the writer's ability to sway the reader with their writing, a skill which some might not consider to be of most prominent importance for admissions to a STEM school. Finally, essay scores would be influenced by native English speaking ability, which is not a metric of merit.


In other words, it is much more difficult to “crack the code” on essay writing. 😄
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Why are people making graphs suggesting essays are something other than merit?


I'm not commenting on the graphs, but regarding essays:

The essays may convey some notion of merit, but it is a far more ambiguous notion of merit. Two different evaluators may score the same essay quite differently. Furthermore, an essay-writing evaluation would also be heavily influenced the writer's ability to sway the reader with their writing, a skill which some might not consider to be of most prominent importance for admissions to a STEM school. Finally, essay scores would be influenced by native English speaking ability, which is not a metric of merit.

Applicants have boasted gaining admission offer by simply putting a period in the essay box to get past the required field. Broken English was also intentionally included in the sob stories, not sure why. But the tricks of gaining admission sure are interestingly different now.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
TJ isn’t usually #1. The rankings are volatile because the infinitesimal differences between the top schools.

2015 #1
2016 #1
2017 #2
2018 #1
2019 #1
2020 #2
2021 #1 (admissions changed from merit to equity lottery)
2022 #1
2023 #5
2024 #14

2025 #??
It might stay in double digits for a while

With bottom fourth filled with lowest math algebra 1 students, the slide has just begun.



THE NUMBERS ABOVE ARE BLATANT LIES.

The PP edited the #s above - they are wrong. Can’t make a valid argument without blatantly lying, eh?

Here are the correct rankings. Double digits is nothing new.

2015 #3
2016 #5
2017 #20
2018 #6
2019 #10
2020 #4
2021 #1
2022 #1
2023 #5
2024 #14

TJ isn’t usually #1. The rankings are volatile because the infinitesimal differences between the top schools.


Can you provide a cite for your 2017 ranking? This link says TJ was #6 in 2017.
https://patch.com/us/across-america/americas-best-high-schools-2017-u-s-news-world-report


I started with the wikipedia info and then filled in with local news articles. It looks like wiki has multiple inconsistencies with news articles. There could be some discrepancy whether they were looking at all high schools vs. magnet schools.

We can verify all numbers after internet archive is available again (currently has DOS attack).

Archive shows TJ was #6 in 2017 for all high schools, not #20.
https://web.archive.org/web/20170524/https://www.usnews.com/education/best-high-schools/national-rankings

TJ was never as low as #14. Equity liars keep pushing lies, until faced with facts. what's new.

So much manipulation to conceal race based admission. Equity minions going crazy, flooding this forum with fantasy stories.


Yes, I’m sure that actual facts and data seem like “fantasy” to RWNJs.

It’s race blind. Any way you slice it.

Asian students continue to have very high enrollment #s and continue to have greater rate of admission. No discrimination.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
TJ isn’t usually #1. The rankings are volatile because the infinitesimal differences between the top schools.

2015 #1
2016 #1
2017 #2
2018 #1
2019 #1
2020 #2
2021 #1 (admissions changed from merit to equity lottery)
2022 #1
2023 #5
2024 #14

2025 #??
It might stay in double digits for a while

With bottom fourth filled with lowest math algebra 1 students, the slide has just begun.



THE NUMBERS ABOVE ARE BLATANT LIES.

The PP edited the #s above - they are wrong. Can’t make a valid argument without blatantly lying, eh?

Here are the correct rankings. Double digits is nothing new.

2015 #3
2016 #5
2017 #20
2018 #6
2019 #10
2020 #4
2021 #1
2022 #1
2023 #5
2024 #14

TJ isn’t usually #1. The rankings are volatile because the infinitesimal differences between the top schools.


Can you provide a cite for your 2017 ranking? This link says TJ was #6 in 2017.
https://patch.com/us/across-america/americas-best-high-schools-2017-u-s-news-world-report


I started with the wikipedia info and then filled in with local news articles. It looks like wiki has multiple inconsistencies with news articles. There could be some discrepancy whether they were looking at all high schools vs. magnet schools.

We can verify all numbers after internet archive is available again (currently has DOS attack).

Archive shows TJ was #6 in 2017 for all high schools, not #20.
https://web.archive.org/web/20170524/https://www.usnews.com/education/best-high-schools/national-rankings

TJ was never as low as #14. Equity liars keep pushing lies, until faced with facts. what's new.

So much manipulation to conceal race based admission. Equity minions going crazy, flooding this forum with fantasy stories.


Yes, I’m sure that actual facts and data seem like “fantasy” to RWNJs.

It’s race blind. Any way you slice it.

Asian students continue to have very high enrollment #s and continue to have greater rate of admission. No discrimination.


True, but I'm glad that students from all schools now get a shot. Before it was 99% kids from a few wealthy schools.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Why are people making graphs suggesting essays are something other than merit?


I'm not commenting on the graphs, but regarding essays:

The essays may convey some notion of merit, but it is a far more ambiguous notion of merit. Two different evaluators may score the same essay quite differently. Furthermore, an essay-writing evaluation would also be heavily influenced the writer's ability to sway the reader with their writing, a skill which some might not consider to be of most prominent importance for admissions to a STEM school. Finally, essay scores would be influenced by native English speaking ability, which is not a metric of merit.


In other words, it is much more difficult to “crack the code” on essay writing. 😄


IMO using an essay is not in and of itself a bad thing, but using it as the main factor for admission is a bad idea. Better to have other factors (e.g. test scores) so that you have some way to know if an especially low or high scoring essay is an outlier.

On the other hand, I have no idea why some posters here are so dead-set against tests as a measure of merit. Tests are, inherently, the name you give to the tool you use to assess something. If you go to a doctor and you want to find out whether you have an illness, you take a test. Some tests are better than others at measuring what they are supposed to measure - you wouldn't give someone an arithmetic test to find out if they have the mathematical aptitude to take calculus, but it's silly to think that there is no test that can be used to figure it out. Does it make sense to use multiple tests in case someone has a "bad day" or has exam stress? Maybe. I don't know what the right formula is, but it's short-sighted to think there isn't one.

The thing I do agree with is that people shouldn't be penalized on admissions for not having money. I think the solution is to find tests that everyone can prep for, rather than ones that you have to pay a lot of money to prep for. Paying a lot of money should always be an option rather than a necessity.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Why are people making graphs suggesting essays are something other than merit?


I'm not commenting on the graphs, but regarding essays:

The essays may convey some notion of merit, but it is a far more ambiguous notion of merit. Two different evaluators may score the same essay quite differently. Furthermore, an essay-writing evaluation would also be heavily influenced the writer's ability to sway the reader with their writing, a skill which some might not consider to be of most prominent importance for admissions to a STEM school. Finally, essay scores would be influenced by native English speaking ability, which is not a metric of merit.


In other words, it is much more difficult to “crack the code” on essay writing. 😄


Unfortunately, essay writing doesn’t help much in cracking STEM questions.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Why are people making graphs suggesting essays are something other than merit?


I'm not commenting on the graphs, but regarding essays:

The essays may convey some notion of merit, but it is a far more ambiguous notion of merit. Two different evaluators may score the same essay quite differently. Furthermore, an essay-writing evaluation would also be heavily influenced the writer's ability to sway the reader with their writing, a skill which some might not consider to be of most prominent importance for admissions to a STEM school. Finally, essay scores would be influenced by native English speaking ability, which is not a metric of merit.


In other words, it is much more difficult to “crack the code” on essay writing. 😄


IMO using an essay is not in and of itself a bad thing, but using it as the main factor for admission is a bad idea. Better to have other factors (e.g. test scores) so that you have some way to know if an especially low or high scoring essay is an outlier.

On the other hand, I have no idea why some posters here are so dead-set against tests as a measure of merit. Tests are, inherently, the name you give to the tool you use to assess something. If you go to a doctor and you want to find out whether you have an illness, you take a test. Some tests are better than others at measuring what they are supposed to measure - you wouldn't give someone an arithmetic test to find out if they have the mathematical aptitude to take calculus, but it's silly to think that there is no test that can be used to figure it out. Does it make sense to use multiple tests in case someone has a "bad day" or has exam stress? Maybe. I don't know what the right formula is, but it's short-sighted to think there isn't one.

The thing I do agree with is that people shouldn't be penalized on admissions for not having money. I think the solution is to find tests that everyone can prep for, rather than ones that you have to pay a lot of money to prep for. Paying a lot of money should always be an option rather than a necessity.


Another factor is teachers’ recommendations. I really don’t see why inputs from MS teachers were removed from a holistic reviewing process.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Why are people making graphs suggesting essays are something other than merit?


I'm not commenting on the graphs, but regarding essays:

The essays may convey some notion of merit, but it is a far more ambiguous notion of merit. Two different evaluators may score the same essay quite differently. Furthermore, an essay-writing evaluation would also be heavily influenced the writer's ability to sway the reader with their writing, a skill which some might not consider to be of most prominent importance for admissions to a STEM school. Finally, essay scores would be influenced by native English speaking ability, which is not a metric of merit.


In other words, it is much more difficult to “crack the code” on essay writing. 😄


IMO using an essay is not in and of itself a bad thing, but using it as the main factor for admission is a bad idea. Better to have other factors (e.g. test scores) so that you have some way to know if an especially low or high scoring essay is an outlier.

On the other hand, I have no idea why some posters here are so dead-set against tests as a measure of merit. Tests are, inherently, the name you give to the tool you use to assess something. If you go to a doctor and you want to find out whether you have an illness, you take a test. Some tests are better than others at measuring what they are supposed to measure - you wouldn't give someone an arithmetic test to find out if they have the mathematical aptitude to take calculus, but it's silly to think that there is no test that can be used to figure it out. Does it make sense to use multiple tests in case someone has a "bad day" or has exam stress? Maybe. I don't know what the right formula is, but it's short-sighted to think there isn't one.

The thing I do agree with is that people shouldn't be penalized on admissions for not having money. I think the solution is to find tests that everyone can prep for, rather than ones that you have to pay a lot of money to prep for. Paying a lot of money should always be an option rather than a necessity.


Another factor is teachers’ recommendations. I really don’t see why inputs from MS teachers were removed from a holistic reviewing process.


Because it's been proven that they are racially biased.
Anonymous
It's too bad TJ fell to 14th but since this was based on data before they fixed the selection process I think it will be back on top in no time!
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
TJ isn’t usually #1. The rankings are volatile because the infinitesimal differences between the top schools.

2015 #1
2016 #1
2017 #2
2018 #1
2019 #1
2020 #2
2021 #1 (admissions changed from merit to equity lottery)
2022 #1
2023 #5
2024 #14

2025 #??
It might stay in double digits for a while

With bottom fourth filled with lowest math algebra 1 students, the slide has just begun.



THE NUMBERS ABOVE ARE BLATANT LIES.

The PP edited the #s above - they are wrong. Can’t make a valid argument without blatantly lying, eh?

Here are the correct rankings. Double digits is nothing new.

2015 #3
2016 #5
2017 #20
2018 #6
2019 #10
2020 #4
2021 #1
2022 #1
2023 #5
2024 #14

TJ isn’t usually #1. The rankings are volatile because the infinitesimal differences between the top schools.


Can you provide a cite for your 2017 ranking? This link says TJ was #6 in 2017.
https://patch.com/us/across-america/americas-best-high-schools-2017-u-s-news-world-report


I started with the wikipedia info and then filled in with local news articles. It looks like wiki has multiple inconsistencies with news articles. There could be some discrepancy whether they were looking at all high schools vs. magnet schools.

We can verify all numbers after internet archive is available again (currently has DOS attack).

Archive shows TJ was #6 in 2017 for all high schools, not #20.
https://web.archive.org/web/20170524/https://www.usnews.com/education/best-high-schools/national-rankings

TJ was never as low as #14. Equity liars keep pushing lies, until faced with facts. what's new.

So much manipulation to conceal race based admission. Equity minions going crazy, flooding this forum with fantasy stories.


Yes, I’m sure that actual facts and data seem like “fantasy” to RWNJs.

It’s race blind. Any way you slice it.

Asian students continue to have very high enrollment #s and continue to have greater rate of admission. No discrimination.


The intent behind the change was discriminatory. The only reason they changed the admissions process was to racially balance the student body.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Why are people making graphs suggesting essays are something other than merit?


I'm not commenting on the graphs, but regarding essays:

The essays may convey some notion of merit, but it is a far more ambiguous notion of merit. Two different evaluators may score the same essay quite differently. Furthermore, an essay-writing evaluation would also be heavily influenced the writer's ability to sway the reader with their writing, a skill which some might not consider to be of most prominent importance for admissions to a STEM school. Finally, essay scores would be influenced by native English speaking ability, which is not a metric of merit.


In other words, it is much more difficult to “crack the code” on essay writing. 😄


IMO using an essay is not in and of itself a bad thing, but using it as the main factor for admission is a bad idea. Better to have other factors (e.g. test scores) so that you have some way to know if an especially low or high scoring essay is an outlier.

On the other hand, I have no idea why some posters here are so dead-set against tests as a measure of merit. Tests are, inherently, the name you give to the tool you use to assess something. If you go to a doctor and you want to find out whether you have an illness, you take a test. Some tests are better than others at measuring what they are supposed to measure - you wouldn't give someone an arithmetic test to find out if they have the mathematical aptitude to take calculus, but it's silly to think that there is no test that can be used to figure it out. Does it make sense to use multiple tests in case someone has a "bad day" or has exam stress? Maybe. I don't know what the right formula is, but it's short-sighted to think there isn't one.

The thing I do agree with is that people shouldn't be penalized on admissions for not having money. I think the solution is to find tests that everyone can prep for, rather than ones that you have to pay a lot of money to prep for. Paying a lot of money should always be an option rather than a necessity.


Tests are racist. That's why.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:It's too bad TJ fell to 14th but since this was based on data before they fixed the selection process I think it will be back on top in no time!


This is based on 2022 data.
Freshmen are from the new system that year.

I don't know how freshmen affect the rankings but we will see what happens.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2023/08/30/thomas-jefferson-high-ranking-drops/

"Asian American enrollment dropped from about 70 percent to about 50 percent after the policy took effect in 2021."

are they trying to imply the drop in ranking has something to do with the drop in number of Asian American students admitted?

What were the percent of Asian Americans for years before and after the admissions policy change? twenty percent drop seems drastic

From another thread:


Asian count remains more or less same, but the Asian percent has gone down?
Along with the admissions change, the total number of seats were expanded by 100 seats, but Asian students were solely excluded from participating in the expanded seat assignment. There are consistently 1000+ declined Asian applicants each year, largest among all ethnicities, and none of them are allowed to receive a single seat from the expanded seat quota.

If the high-achieving cohort is suppressed and substituted with a remedial cohort, were they expecting with the ranking to improve?
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