SCOTUS outlaws race as college admissions factor

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Ok, then avoid colleges with lots of Asians for all the faults you've imagined them to have. Be my guest. I don't want to go to college with people who assign racial stereotypes to a large groups of people instead of seeing them as individuals, so I guess we can agree that we shouldn't be in the same college together.

You keep saying “racial stereotypes”.

This is literally every Asian family I know and I know quite a few. This is also what other people tell me who know other Asian families.

They made movies about this, wrote books about it. This is reality.

I will add on top of it that Indians don’t assimilate into American culture. I’m not talking about 1st generation Indians, but 2nd, 3rd and so on.

They marry primarily Indians, hangout only with other Indians, bring Bollywood movies to American theaters, they even bought an Oscar for themselves this year for a movie that no American watched.

So let me ask you this. Are you here just to use American education system for your personal gain?

How do you contribute to the American society?

How do your contribute to making American society just and diverse? Or is this all just about you making riches?

LOL wow are you hearing yourself? We get it, Asians are too intense for you. But among a more intense and high achieving population, people can still manage to have individual personalities and interests and passions. Maybe if you actually tried to get to know people on an individual basis, instead of being put off/scared off by their intensity, make a note of the color of the skin, and file that away in your brain as a knock against them forever. You are also free to go and move somewhere with less Asians.

[Anonymous]

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So a lot more whites apply vs blacks because there are a lot more whites.

US population by race
White 59%
Hispanic 19%
Black 12%
Asian 6%

So you would expect matriculation rates at roughly these levels and yet, they aren't. The matriculation still over samples white students and under samples blacks and Asians.

Harvard is a bad example to base these type of things on. It’s a very small number of the total number of college students. Many top students do not even apply.

So 61,221 apply and 1,984 are admitted. 95% of those accepted have at a minimum 1540 sat, 35 act and 4.12 gpa. Over 1/2 of the applicants meet these numbers. This applicant pool is not representative of the US population- ie a higher percentage of whites and Asian; lower number blacks vs the general population. This exaggerates the statistics.

Looking at class make up Harvard
Black 15% in class/12% US population
Hispanic 12%/19%
Asian 28%/6%

So slightly over with blacks, sizable deficit with Hispanic(actually bigger given average age of Hispanic population vs US population) and Asian way way over represented.

Being admitted to Harvard is winning the lottery. No matter how you break down the admissions by race they will still turn away very qualified applicants. Harvard has a special program(Dean’s Interest List) for big donors who are admitted with much much lower scores. No one talks about it.

Harvard is private, does not have many students and should be able to do what they want in terms of admissions. Now the public colleges and universities is where this ruling will a large impact on continuing the historic economically disparities between the races.

Asians posting here think all other groups aren’t worthy as they’re the superior race. They won’t be happy until every Asian who applies is admitted because all other students are admitted because they’re legacies or AA applicants. This is clear from the posts here.

Whites were thinking this 100 years ago when they passed the Chinese Exclusion Act.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:"No person in the United States shall, on the ground of race, color, or national origin, be excluded from participation in, be denied the benefits of, or be subjected to discrimination under any program or activity receiving Federal financial assistance."

The 14th Amendment was not enforced by the Supreme Court for 90 years, and now it is being interpreted for the opposite purpose as its intent. It was meant to remedy the legacy of discrimination, but now it has been interpreted as protection for maintaining the discriminatory effect of that legacy.

Not even close. It is clear. Can’t pick or decide stuff on race. Any race. There is no other way to view it.

We will not get to a good place as a country if we make any decision based on race.

Only if you ignore reality and history and pretend that opportunities and resources for everyone have been equivalent up to the point of college application. Test scores alone do not measure merit. They measure the extent of years of preparation for the tests.

Yes and colleges can still look at socioeconomic factors and consider how the race has affected the applicant personally in their essays. What it has outlawed is preference based solely on the color of someone's skin. I have not seen one good support for why such a travesty and blatantly unconstitutional and unamerican practice should continue.

But that is what they were doing already. They weren’t using a racial formula. They were making individual decisions on individual applicants and factoring individual circumstances. The case and decision were based on racial formulas that didn’t exist.

That's not what the trial court record found. And it is not what people are arguing for here. Liberals want race based admissions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I know many Asians that are really worried about this ruling. Everyone wants to consider Asian Americans as the "model minority" which my Asian friends hate. There are a lot of poor Asians in our country who don't come from well to do families that can afford tutoring or live in areas with terrible schools. A lot of schools in urban and poor areas don't offer AP courses which help distinguish a student's record and give them extra points. They will be penalized with the other poor students and now they can't even use race as a distinguishing factor.

I keep asking - what is merit if not all high schools offer the same education.

In 2019, the median annual household income of households headed by Asian people was $85,800, compared with $61,800 among all U.S.

[Anonymous]

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First generation Asian Americans--or their parents--come from countries where university admission is based solely on performance on a university entrance exam. So it's easy to understand why AA doesn't make sense to them.

It makes perfect sense. India had affirmative action before America, and it is much more extensive there now with explicit quotas all over the place, women, caste, Muslims, spoken language, geographic region, etc. Christians hide their weddings so their future kids can maintain their affirmative action status.

[Anonymous]

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Why don't you look to see who is leading top US tech firms like NVIDIA, AMD, Microsoft, and Adobe?

I told you how they took over the tech in the US. Once one Indian has a foot in the door, they will bring onboard their friends and cousins and then they only hire Indians, then they promote each other to top positions.

This is how it happened in Silicon Valley. Ask anyone who works there. They know.

Oh for crying out loud. Don't act like white people don't do this. Have you ever heard of the good old boys club? Look at most government contracting companies in the DMV and tell me the white male holding a C-level position didn't bring in their friends for other C-level or leadership positions. I.see.it.all.the.time.

You see, the truth is they don't see it when it's white people doing this. But if a racial group they don't belong to suddenly does it, OMG the world is ending! Though in all seriousness, no one should be doing this.

White people’s nepotism and cronyism is why we need civil rights laws and affirmative action goals in the first place. Universities are more meritorious than any other institutions in the country, because they take the time and effort to assess each individual applicant. Unlike the Supreme Court, which makes decisions according to “who is for, who is against, and which side funds me.”

Great, then do it in a way that doesn't discriminate against Asians like Harvard was doing. You want to do it by income? Go for it. But what Harvard was doing is unacceptable.

DP Why is it wrong? Harvard is picking between applicants with extremely little difference in test scores, gpa, etc. Asians are at 30% of the class size and only 6% in the general population of the US. Harvard as a private institution should be free to select its class without government mandates.

They are only at 30% because of the lawsuit. Prior to that Harvard had successfully kept Asian share to 20%, despite higher number of applicants with high scores. They did the same to Jews 100 years ago, which is why they started holistic admissions and geographic diversity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
LOL wow are you hearing yourself? We get it, Asians are too intense for you. But among a more intense and high achieving population, people can still manage to have individual personalities and interests and passions. Maybe if you actually tried to get to know people on an individual basis, instead of being put off/scared off by their intensity, make a note of the color of the skin, and file that away in your brain as a knock against them forever. You are also free to go and move somewhere with less Asians.

“Intense” LOL
why is it so hard to believe that not everyone wants to be in a rat race?

Read a book “Excellent sheep” by an Ivy League professor. Maybe you will understand.

[Anonymous]

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Why don't you look to see who is leading top US tech firms like NVIDIA, AMD, Microsoft, and Adobe?

I told you how they took over the tech in the US. Once one Indian has a foot in the door, they will bring onboard their friends and cousins and then they only hire Indians, then they promote each other to top positions.

This is how it happened in Silicon Valley. Ask anyone who works there. They know.

Oh for crying out loud. Don't act like white people don't do this. Have you ever heard of the good old boys club? Look at most government contracting companies in the DMV and tell me the white male holding a C-level position didn't bring in their friends for other C-level or leadership positions. I.see.it.all.the.time.

You see, the truth is they don't see it when it's white people doing this. But if a racial group they don't belong to suddenly does it, OMG the world is ending! Though in all seriousness, no one should be doing this.

White people’s nepotism and cronyism is why we need civil rights laws and affirmative action goals in the first place. Universities are more meritorious than any other institutions in the country, because they take the time and effort to assess each individual applicant. Unlike the Supreme Court, which makes decisions according to “who is for, who is against, and which side funds me.”

Great, then do it in a way that doesn't discriminate against Asians like Harvard was doing. You want to do it by income? Go for it. But what Harvard was doing is unacceptable.

DP Why is it wrong? Harvard is picking between applicants with extremely little difference in test scores, gpa, etc. Asians are at 30% of the class size and only 6% in the general population of the US. Harvard as a private institution should be free to select its class without government mandates.

Actually, that's not the case at all and that's why this decision happened. Harvard and other colleges were setting much higher standards for Asians than non-Asians, including white candidates. Do you know how messed up that is? As an Asian person with kids who are bright but not Ivy level, I worried that being Asian was going to hurt them when applying to colleges a few years from now. That's wrong. I'm not a tiger mom nor are my kids being tutored. They're A & B student-athletes and aren't taking 4 AP classes every semester. They should be held to the same standards as everyone else.

It's not just that.

The Harvard admissions office systematically penalized Asian candidates on personality. Asian candidates were rated the worst on personality across every decile. This is despite the alumni interviewers scoring Asians similarly to whites on personality and better on average than Latinos and blacks.

I know many Asians that are really worried about this ruling. Everyone wants to consider Asian Americans as the "model minority" which my Asian friends hate. There are a lot of poor Asians in our country who don't come from well to do families that can afford tutoring or live in areas with terrible schools. A lot of schools in urban and poor areas don't offer AP courses which help distinguish a student's record and give them extra points. They will be penalized with the other poor students and now they can't even use race as a distinguishing factor.

I keep asking - what is merit if not all high schools offer the same education.

Well, this ruling potentially gives those students more of a chance.

The idea that affirmative action gave poor students a chance to go to Harvard was mostly a facade. Almost everyone who got admitted is rich or UMC. Hardly any of the black students admitted to Harvard are ADOS.

With this change elite institutions like Harvard may be forced to rely on family income rather than race. This benefits LMC and poor Asian kids over UMC Asian kids.

Yes, I'd rather see them give extra points to low-income students. For majority of families, regardless of race, they could never afford Harvard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I know many Asians that are really worried about this ruling. Everyone wants to consider Asian Americans as the "model minority" which my Asian friends hate.

Perhaps with regards to crime, but I think in academics, the model minority claim will fall apart, particularly among South Asians. Immigrants coming in are well educated and much smarter than average for their race. This will balance out in future generations, and a lot of kids will be in trouble, because the parents expectations are too high.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Ok, then avoid colleges with lots of Asians for all the faults you've imagined them to have. Be my guest. I don't want to go to college with people who assign racial stereotypes to a large groups of people instead of seeing them as individuals, so I guess we can agree that we shouldn't be in the same college together.

You keep saying “racial stereotypes”.

This is literally every Asian family I know and I know quite a few. This is also what other people tell me who know other Asian families.

They made movies about this, wrote books about it. This is reality.

I will add on top of it that Indians don’t assimilate into American culture. I’m not talking about 1st generation Indians, but 2nd, 3rd and so on.

They marry primarily Indians, hangout only with other Indians, bring Bollywood movies to American theaters, they even bought an Oscar for themselves this year for a movie that no American watched.

So let me ask you this. Are you here just to use American education system for your personal gain?

How do you contribute to the American society?

How do your contribute to making American society just and diverse? Or is this all just about you making riches?

LOL wow are you hearing yourself? We get it, Asians are too intense for you. But among a more intense and high achieving population, people can still manage to have individual personalities and interests and passions. Maybe if you actually tried to get to know people on an individual basis, instead of being put off/scared off by their intensity, make a note of the color of the skin, and file that away in your brain as a knock against them forever. You are also free to go and move somewhere with less Asians.

Exactly. We're Asian and are nothing like the stereotype that this previous PP keep claiming. Unbelievable. Also, I hope this person realizes that Indians aren't the only Asians. LOL!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

You keep saying “racial stereotypes”.

This is literally every Asian family I know and I know quite a few. This is also what other people tell me who know other Asian families.

They made movies about this, wrote books about it. This is reality.

I will add on top of it that Indians don’t assimilate into American culture. I’m not talking about 1st generation Indians, but 2nd, 3rd and so on.

They marry primarily Indians, hangout only with other Indians, bring Bollywood movies to American theaters, they even bought an Oscar for themselves this year for a movie that no American watched.

So let me ask you this. Are you here just to use American education system for your personal gain?

How do you contribute to the American society?

How do your contribute to making American society just and diverse? Or is this all just about you making riches?

This is false. Indians did not just come in the 70s and then we have future generations. Instead we have constant 1st generation Indians coming in and settling in certain areas.
That is why you have Bollywood movies, not from 2nd generation. Sure they will watch with their parents or when the movies are here, but the movies are here because of 1st generation Indians.
I don't care about Oscars, but I can tell you I never heard about RRR from any Indians. I saw it on Youtube reviews from white American reviewers, one saying it was the best movie of the year and why can't Hollywood make movies like this. I really took notice when it got an Honest Trailer.
2nd,3rd generation assimilate well, and tend to not hang out with the 1st generation Indians of their age. I think the same applies to many other immigrant groups.

[Anonymous]

Pp is weird harping about Indian assimilation when there’s a half Indian vp!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Pp is weird harping about Indian assimilation when there’s a half Indian vp!

Who spend her teenage time in Montreal!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Ok, then avoid colleges with lots of Asians for all the faults you've imagined them to have. Be my guest. I don't want to go to college with people who assign racial stereotypes to a large groups of people instead of seeing them as individuals, so I guess we can agree that we shouldn't be in the same college together.

You keep saying “racial stereotypes”.

This is literally every Asian family I know and I know quite a few. This is also what other people tell me who know other Asian families.

They made movies about this, wrote books about it. This is reality.

I will add on top of it that Indians don’t assimilate into American culture. I’m not talking about 1st generation Indians, but 2nd, 3rd and so on.

They marry primarily Indians, hangout only with other Indians, bring Bollywood movies to American theaters, they even bought an Oscar for themselves this year for a movie that no American watched.

So let me ask you this. Are you here just to use American education system for your personal gain?

How do you contribute to the American society?

How do your contribute to making American society just and diverse? Or is this all just about you making riches?

LOL wow are you hearing yourself? We get it, Asians are too intense for you. But among a more intense and high achieving population, people can still manage to have individual personalities and interests and passions. Maybe if you actually tried to get to know people on an individual basis, instead of being put off/scared off by their intensity, make a note of the color of the skin, and file that away in your brain as a knock against them forever. You are also free to go and move somewhere with less Asians.

I think that’s what PP is saying. The Indians are too insular. They don’t make friends with him/her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Why don't you look to see who is leading top US tech firms like NVIDIA, AMD, Microsoft, and Adobe?

I told you how they took over the tech in the US. Once one Indian has a foot in the door, they will bring onboard their friends and cousins and then they only hire Indians, then they promote each other to top positions.

This is how it happened in Silicon Valley. Ask anyone who works there. They know.

Oh for crying out loud. Don't act like white people don't do this. Have you ever heard of the good old boys club? Look at most government contracting companies in the DMV and tell me the white male holding a C-level position didn't bring in their friends for other C-level or leadership positions. I.see.it.all.the.time.

You see, the truth is they don't see it when it's white people doing this. But if a racial group they don't belong to suddenly does it, OMG the world is ending! Though in all seriousness, no one should be doing this.

White people’s nepotism and cronyism is why we need civil rights laws and affirmative action goals in the first place. Universities are more meritorious than any other institutions in the country, because they take the time and effort to assess each individual applicant. Unlike the Supreme Court, which makes decisions according to “who is for, who is against, and which side funds me.”

Great, then do it in a way that doesn't discriminate against Asians like Harvard was doing. You want to do it by income? Go for it. But what Harvard was doing is unacceptable.

I still don't understand...Asians were not under-represented as compared to the general population at Harvard, so how are "they" being discriminated against? If Asians make up 12% of the population and have roughly 12% of the seats, then what is the complaint? I mean, Harvard turns away 98% of their applicants, and it is possible that the number of Asian rejections is higher because there may be more Asian applicants, but I still feel like this was not the right decision.

The Asian community won’t be happy until 100% of Asians who apply are accepted into Harvard. They feel they deserve it when other kids do not. They are arguing that their kids are always superior to others. Anyone else admitted who isn’t Asian is not as bright and only there due to AA or legacy. It’s been well explain on this thread.