Ukrainian victory over Russia is inevitable

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Trump had Russia and Iran leashed.

Bumbling swamp bumbles into ww3 and now is short on ammo and soldiers


They make Trump look like a genius

Quite the opposite - Putin had Drumpf on a tight leash. Trump is Putin’s poodle. He loaned Trump hundreds of millions of dollars as no US or reputable western banks would loan to him as he was such a lousy and dishonest business person.

Putin is not our friend. Trump was a useful idiot for him to undo NATO thus making US and allies more isolated and vulnerable. It would only have been a matter of time before Putin further undermined US national security via his useful idiot.

+1
I am disappointed that Republicans are content to ignore this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Russian version does not add up. The Ilyushin Il-76 is a workhorse plane of the Russian and Ukrainian militaries, known for carrying heavy cargos: tanks, trucks, weapons, and equipment not POWs.

I believe Ukraine that Russian officials withheld information about exchanging prisoners, and that Moscow had willfully endangered prisoners’ lives.

There are no signs that there were so many people on the Il-76 plane - if there were really seven or eight dozen people there, the field would be strewn with more remains of bodies.

The list of purported Ukrainian POWs on the Il-76, was published not long after news of the crash by Margarita Simonyan, the longtime propaganda talking head in chief.
Several names on the list matched Ukrainian soldiers who had been released in earlier prisoner exchanges.

It is much more likely that the Ilyushin was carrying S-300 air defense missiles.

Why had high-ranking Russian officials planned to travel on the jet but Russia’s main intelligence agency, the Federal Security Service (FSB), barred them from boarding?

Russia launched into UN security counsel spin mode very quickly.

Russians were most likely seeking to undermine Ukrainian morale from successes in their counter offensive - they have bombed their own villages in the last to stir up anti Ukrainian fury.

If Russia manages to convince enough people that Ukraine shot down the Russian cargo jet, and mistakenly killed dozens of Ukrainian POWs, it would undermine Ukrainian morale and international support. This is the kind of thing Putin’s Russia does.

Why Did The Russian Il-76 Crash? What We Know, And Don't Know, About A Major Aviation Disaster 
January 25, 2024 15:22 GMT

https://www.rferl.org/amp/russia-ii-76-crash-explainer-ukraine-pows/32791736.html

The Russian version does not add up in all the details but it generally makes sense. Ukraine confirmed there was a prisoner exchange scheduled for that day. It is true that the list of 65 prisoners published by Simonyan is not correct to 100%, but 52 names out of 65 were confirmed as Russia's POWs. Considering the state of record-keeping in both countries, the errors are regrettable but not necessarily surprising.

It is beyond doubt that the plane was downed by a Ukrainian air defense missile.

I am not swayed by the low number of bodies. This may just mean that the rest were too fragmented to send to the morgue. This is consistent with how plane crashes go. The video of the crash shows the plane's nearly vertical drop, which would have resulted in terrific impact. A coroner report issued after similar crash in 2016 (a Boeing crashed near Rostov on Don) due to pilot error recorded 4389 body fragments for 63 passengers. The chief pilot's body on that flight was fully pulverized.

Also, there were two planes carrying POWs that day. The second one managed to avoid fire and turned around, returning to base. Russia published a grainy video of multiple trucks allegedly carrying POWs approaching a plane on a tarmac. Who knows whether this was a fake but there you have it.

This case is going to hang on the following:

- can Russia prove it has notified Ukraine of the plane's route, and

- can Ukraine prove this was a legitimate military target.

More than that /

A leopard does not changes its spots quickly and Putin has been lying throughout the entire war and for strategic purposes. Why would he suddenly start telling the truth now?

Why did Russia have their propaganda arm on this from the beginning?

What was Iran’s role? Iran and Russia have collaborated before to start wars and spread mayhem in the ME and Iran downed an Ukrainian jet just four year ago.

What is the incentive for Ukrainians to murder their own POWs? Hint - none.

Everyone lies. And if you’re going back some years, America downed an Iranian civilian passenger jet too.

It was sloppiness. Pure unadulterated sloppiness.

No if Russia did not disclose there were POWs on board and refused to let their top mitigate brass on the plane plus were issuing false passenger lists from the get go - it was not just sloppiness at work,

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Russian version does not add up. The Ilyushin Il-76 is a workhorse plane of the Russian and Ukrainian militaries, known for carrying heavy cargos: tanks, trucks, weapons, and equipment not POWs.

I believe Ukraine that Russian officials withheld information about exchanging prisoners, and that Moscow had willfully endangered prisoners’ lives.

There are no signs that there were so many people on the Il-76 plane - if there were really seven or eight dozen people there, the field would be strewn with more remains of bodies.

The list of purported Ukrainian POWs on the Il-76, was published not long after news of the crash by Margarita Simonyan, the longtime propaganda talking head in chief.
Several names on the list matched Ukrainian soldiers who had been released in earlier prisoner exchanges.

It is much more likely that the Ilyushin was carrying S-300 air defense missiles.

Why had high-ranking Russian officials planned to travel on the jet but Russia’s main intelligence agency, the Federal Security Service (FSB), barred them from boarding?

Russia launched into UN security counsel spin mode very quickly.

Russians were most likely seeking to undermine Ukrainian morale from successes in their counter offensive - they have bombed their own villages in the last to stir up anti Ukrainian fury.

If Russia manages to convince enough people that Ukraine shot down the Russian cargo jet, and mistakenly killed dozens of Ukrainian POWs, it would undermine Ukrainian morale and international support. This is the kind of thing Putin’s Russia does.

Why Did The Russian Il-76 Crash? What We Know, And Don't Know, About A Major Aviation Disaster 
January 25, 2024 15:22 GMT

https://www.rferl.org/amp/russia-ii-76-crash-explainer-ukraine-pows/32791736.html

The Russian version does not add up in all the details but it generally makes sense. Ukraine confirmed there was a prisoner exchange scheduled for that day. It is true that the list of 65 prisoners published by Simonyan is not correct to 100%, but 52 names out of 65 were confirmed as Russia's POWs. Considering the state of record-keeping in both countries, the errors are regrettable but not necessarily surprising.

It is beyond doubt that the plane was downed by a Ukrainian air defense missile.

I am not swayed by the low number of bodies. This may just mean that the rest were too fragmented to send to the morgue. This is consistent with how plane crashes go. The video of the crash shows the plane's nearly vertical drop, which would have resulted in terrific impact. A coroner report issued after similar crash in 2016 (a Boeing crashed near Rostov on Don) due to pilot error recorded 4389 body fragments for 63 passengers. The chief pilot's body on that flight was fully pulverized.

Also, there were two planes carrying POWs that day. The second one managed to avoid fire and turned around, returning to base. Russia published a grainy video of multiple trucks allegedly carrying POWs approaching a plane on a tarmac. Who knows whether this was a fake but there you have it.

This case is going to hang on the following:

- can Russia prove it has notified Ukraine of the plane's route, and

- can Ukraine prove this was a legitimate military target.

More than that /

A leopard does not changes its spots quickly and Putin has been lying throughout the entire war and for strategic purposes. Why would he suddenly start telling the truth now?

Why did Russia have their propaganda arm on this from the beginning?

What was Iran’s role? Iran and Russia have collaborated before to start wars and spread mayhem in the ME and Iran downed an Ukrainian jet just four year ago.

What is the incentive for Ukrainians to murder their own POWs? Hint - none.

Everyone lies. And if you’re going back some years, America downed an Iranian civilian passenger jet too.

It was sloppiness. Pure unadulterated sloppiness.

No if Russia did not disclose there were POWs on board and refused to let their top mitigate brass on the plane plus were issuing false passenger lists from the get go - it was not just sloppiness at work,

Ukraine acknowledged Jan 24 was the agreed upon day of prisoner exchange.

Prior prisoners exchange cargo was flown to that airport too.

I mean was it really hard to put two and two together?

52 out of 65 people listed as POW passengers in the list Simonyan shared WERE in the prisoner database.

Mind you, I'm not saying Russia behaved properly or anything. They probably didn't follow all the notification protocol. Just that Ukraine made a bad mistake. It is not in question that a Ukrainian missile downed that plane.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Russian version does not add up. The Ilyushin Il-76 is a workhorse plane of the Russian and Ukrainian militaries, known for carrying heavy cargos: tanks, trucks, weapons, and equipment not POWs.

I believe Ukraine that Russian officials withheld information about exchanging prisoners, and that Moscow had willfully endangered prisoners’ lives.

There are no signs that there were so many people on the Il-76 plane - if there were really seven or eight dozen people there, the field would be strewn with more remains of bodies.

The list of purported Ukrainian POWs on the Il-76, was published not long after news of the crash by Margarita Simonyan, the longtime propaganda talking head in chief.
Several names on the list matched Ukrainian soldiers who had been released in earlier prisoner exchanges.

It is much more likely that the Ilyushin was carrying S-300 air defense missiles.

Why had high-ranking Russian officials planned to travel on the jet but Russia’s main intelligence agency, the Federal Security Service (FSB), barred them from boarding?

Russia launched into UN security counsel spin mode very quickly.

Russians were most likely seeking to undermine Ukrainian morale from successes in their counter offensive - they have bombed their own villages in the last to stir up anti Ukrainian fury.

If Russia manages to convince enough people that Ukraine shot down the Russian cargo jet, and mistakenly killed dozens of Ukrainian POWs, it would undermine Ukrainian morale and international support. This is the kind of thing Putin’s Russia does.

Why Did The Russian Il-76 Crash? What We Know, And Don't Know, About A Major Aviation Disaster 
January 25, 2024 15:22 GMT

https://www.rferl.org/amp/russia-ii-76-crash-explainer-ukraine-pows/32791736.html

The Russian version does not add up in all the details but it generally makes sense. Ukraine confirmed there was a prisoner exchange scheduled for that day. It is true that the list of 65 prisoners published by Simonyan is not correct to 100%, but 52 names out of 65 were confirmed as Russia's POWs. Considering the state of record-keeping in both countries, the errors are regrettable but not necessarily surprising.

It is beyond doubt that the plane was downed by a Ukrainian air defense missile.

I am not swayed by the low number of bodies. This may just mean that the rest were too fragmented to send to the morgue. This is consistent with how plane crashes go. The video of the crash shows the plane's nearly vertical drop, which would have resulted in terrific impact. A coroner report issued after similar crash in 2016 (a Boeing crashed near Rostov on Don) due to pilot error recorded 4389 body fragments for 63 passengers. The chief pilot's body on that flight was fully pulverized.

Also, there were two planes carrying POWs that day. The second one managed to avoid fire and turned around, returning to base. Russia published a grainy video of multiple trucks allegedly carrying POWs approaching a plane on a tarmac. Who knows whether this was a fake but there you have it.

This case is going to hang on the following:

- can Russia prove it has notified Ukraine of the plane's route, and

- can Ukraine prove this was a legitimate military target.

More than that /

A leopard does not changes its spots quickly and Putin has been lying throughout the entire war and for strategic purposes. Why would he suddenly start telling the truth now?

Why did Russia have their propaganda arm on this from the beginning?

What was Iran’s role? Iran and Russia have collaborated before to start wars and spread mayhem in the ME and Iran downed an Ukrainian jet just four year ago.

What is the incentive for Ukrainians to murder their own POWs? Hint - none.

Everyone lies. And if you’re going back some years, America downed an Iranian civilian passenger jet too.

It was sloppiness. Pure unadulterated sloppiness.

No if Russia did not disclose there were POWs on board and refused to let their top mitigate brass on the plane plus were issuing false passenger lists from the get go - it was not just sloppiness at work,

Ukraine acknowledged Jan 24 was the agreed upon day of prisoner exchange.

Prior prisoners exchange cargo was flown to that airport too.

I mean was it really hard to put two and two together?

52 out of 65 people listed as POW passengers in the list Simonyan shared WERE in the prisoner database.

Mind you, I'm not saying Russia behaved properly or anything. They probably didn't follow all the notification protocol. Just that Ukraine made a bad mistake. It is not in question that a Ukrainian missile downed that plane.

We need an impartial investigation as requested by Zelensky. Russia already has fake videos and propaganda press reports circulating. Putin’s word means less than nothing - his takes are distortions of reality.


Ukraine Doubts Authenticity of Video Purportedly Showing Ukrainian POWs Boarding Russian Plane That Crashed
Last updated on: January 26, 2024 11:24 PM

https://www.voanews.com/amp/ukraine-russia-trade-blame-over-downing-of-russia-plane-carrying-pows/7458993.html

The head of Ukraine’s military intelligence service said Friday that Kyiv did not have credible or comprehensive information about the passengers aboard the Russian airplane that was downed on Russian soil allegedly carrying 65 Ukrainian prisoners of war flying to Ukraine in exchange for Russian POWs.

Kyrylo Budanov, head of the Ukrainian Defense Ministry's Intelligence Directorate, made the comments after Russia's Investigative Committee posted online a video of what it described as Ukrainian prisoners of war boarding the plane, which later crashed in the south of the country.
The video on the committee’s Telegram channel shows vehicles approaching an Ilyushin-76 aircraft on a snowy airfield. Individuals are seen getting out of the vehicles in preparation for boarding.
The video has no sound and is accompanied only by a single line of explanation that it depicts Ukrainian servicemen boarding the military transport. It gives no location.
Ukrainian Radio NV wrote in a comment: "Because of the poor quality of the video, it is difficult to understand exactly what is happening."

Moscow and Kyiv continue to exchange accusations over the downing of the Ilyushin IL-76 plane in Russia's Belgorod region. All 74 passengers died in the crash.

[Anonymous]

If this actually happened as Russia claims, then why is Russia circulating fake lists and fake videos? And why are they now making wild and unfounded accusations that the UK shot it down? Russia's behavior around this is very strange.

[Anonymous]

make peace you fools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:make peace you fools.

Perhaps Russia could just back out of their assault on Ukraine. That would bring peace. They have no claim to the land they’re trying to seize.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:make peace you fools.

Perhaps Russia could just back out of their assault on Ukraine. That would bring peace. They have no claim to the land they’re trying to seize.

Plus one million

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:make peace you fools.

Perhaps Russia could just back out of their assault on Ukraine. That would bring peace. They have no claim to the land they’re trying to seize.

Ukraine isn’t really a country. They have plenty of historical and moral right to protect ethnic Russians from mafia oligarchs like Zelensky.

[Anonymous]

Ukraine confirmed the POWs on the list Simonyan published were scheduled for an exchange.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If this actually happened as Russia claims, then why is Russia circulating fake lists and fake videos? And why are they now making wild and unfounded accusations that the UK shot it down? Russia's behavior around this is very strange.

Ukraine confirmed the list is correct.

We don’t know if the video was fake.

The plane was shot down by a Ukrainian missile. That part is not in question.

[Anonymous]

"Senior Russian officials were due to fly on the doomed military plane that crashed Wednesday"
"at the last moment, the FSB [Russian Security Services] actually ordered them not to board the plane and to use other means of transport"
https://nypost.com/2024/01/26/news/top-russian-officials-ordered-not-to-fly-on-doomed-plane/

"Only five bodies delivered to Belgorod morgue after mysterious Russian plane crash"
https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/25/europe/russian-plane-crash-belgorod-ukraine-intl/index.html

"A video shared by Russia claiming to show Ukrainian POWs boarding an IL-76 which crashed in Belgorod is heavily edited and cut"
https://ukrainetoday.org/il-76-shot-down-update-russian-video-of-prisoners-boarding-il-76-is-heavily-edited-and-cut/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Ia873VqyGU

[Anonymous]

"The Russian defence ministry said six Russian crew members and three Russian soldiers had been on board"
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russian-il-76-military-transport-plane-crashes-near-ukrainian-border-russian-2024-01-24/

I know whenever we escort 65 prisoners here in the US, we only use 3 guards.

After all, one guard can certainly handle 22 prisoners by themselves. Yup. Uh huh.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:make peace you fools.

Perhaps Russia could just back out of their assault on Ukraine. That would bring peace. They have no claim to the land they’re trying to seize.

Ukraine isn’t really a country. They have plenty of historical and moral right to protect ethnic Russians from mafia oligarchs like Zelensky.

"Ukraine isn't really a country" = fake Russian propaganda. Ukraine has had its own unique cultural, linguistic and historic identity for well over 1000 years.

Putin has far more ties to mafia oligarchs than Zelensky.

And the main reason ethnic Russians are there at all is because the Ukrainians who lived there were forcibly displaced by Russia. For example the Crimean Tatars. A majority of the ethnic Russians there don't have any roots there that go even 100 years back.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:make peace you fools.

Okey dokey. And your solution is?

Roughly 500,000 dead. But go ahead, what's your peace solution?