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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]The Russian version does not add up. The Ilyushin Il-76  is a workhorse plane of the Russian and Ukrainian militaries, known for carrying heavy cargos: tanks, trucks, weapons, and equipment not POWs.

I believe Ukraine that Russian officials withheld information about exchanging prisoners, and that Moscow had willfully endangered prisoners’ lives.

There are no signs that there were so many people on the Il-76 plane - if there were really seven or eight dozen people there, the field would be strewn with more remains of bodies.

The list of purported Ukrainian POWs on the Il-76, was published not long after news of the crash by Margarita Simonyan, the longtime propaganda talking head in chief.
Several names on the list matched Ukrainian soldiers who had been released in earlier prisoner exchanges.

It is much more likely that the Ilyushin was carrying S-300 air defense missiles.

Why had high-ranking Russian officials planned to travel on the jet but Russia’s main intelligence agency, the Federal Security Service (FSB), barred them from boarding?

Russia launched into UN security counsel spin mode very quickly.

Russians were most likely seeking to undermine Ukrainian morale from successes in their counter offensive - they have bombed their own villages in the last to stir up anti Ukrainian fury.

If Russia manages to convince enough people that Ukraine shot down the Russian cargo jet, and mistakenly killed dozens of Ukrainian POWs, it would undermine Ukrainian morale and international support. This is the kind of thing Putin’s Russia does.

Why Did The Russian Il-76 Crash? What We Know, And Don't Know, About A Major Aviation Disaster 
January 25, 2024 15:22 GMT

https://www.rferl.org/amp/russia-ii-76-crash-explainer-ukraine-pows/32791736.html
[/quote]

The Russian version does not add up in all the details but it generally makes sense.  Ukraine confirmed there was a prisoner exchange scheduled for that day.   It is true that the list of 65 prisoners published by Simonyan is not correct to 100%, but 52 names out of 65 were confirmed as Russia's POWs.  Considering the state of record-keeping in both countries, the errors are regrettable but not necessarily surprising.

It is beyond doubt that the plane was downed by a Ukrainian air defense missile.

I am not swayed by the low number of bodies.  This may just mean that the rest were too fragmented to send to the morgue.  This is consistent with how plane crashes go.  The video of the crash shows the plane's nearly vertical drop, which would have resulted in terrific impact.  A coroner report issued after similar crash in 2016 (a Boeing crashed near Rostov on Don) due to pilot error recorded 4389 body fragments for 63 passengers.  The chief pilot's body on that flight was fully pulverized.

Also, there were two planes carrying POWs that day.  The second one managed to avoid fire and turned around, returning to base.  Russia published a grainy video of multiple trucks allegedly carrying POWs approaching a plane on a tarmac.  Who knows whether this was a fake but there you have it.

This case is going to hang on the following:

- can Russia prove it has notified Ukraine of the plane's route, and

- can Ukraine prove this was a legitimate military target.

[/quote]

More than that /

A leopard does not changes its spots quickly and Putin has been lying throughout the entire war and for strategic purposes. Why would he suddenly start telling the truth now?

Why did Russia  have their propaganda arm on this from the beginning?

What was Iran’s role? Iran and Russia have collaborated before to start wars and spread mayhem in the ME and Iran downed an Ukrainian jet just four year ago.

What is the incentive for Ukrainians to murder their own POWs?  Hint - none. [/quote]

Everyone lies. And if you’re going back some years, America downed an Iranian civilian passenger jet too.

It was sloppiness. Pure unadulterated sloppiness. [/quote]

No if Russia did not disclose there were POWs on board and refused to let their top mitigate brass on the plane plus were issuing false passenger lists from the get go - it was not just sloppiness at work, [/quote]

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