Allegedly there are several options for the fall none of which include being back full time?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Another way to look at this is that it isn’t children and their education that are being sacrificed due to fear of the virus. Education is being sacrificed for the economy.

I understand that many think the risk of death is minuscule and that old people and people with lifestyle based comorbidities were going to going to die any day now, so who cares? The virus is here regardless of how you value life, public health officials need to act to slow its spread, just as they do other communicable diseases that may not cause large numbers of deaths.

We have to balance many competing interests, including public health and the economy. What we are seeing is that the areas that have reopened indoor spaced with few restrictions are seeing a rise in cases. We still don’t know how it will play out if it happens here.

Maybe instead of asking why casinos can reopen but your child’s school can’t because school is essential for the education, health and well-being of children, ask why reopening non-esssential businesses or minimizing restrictions non-essential business is MORE important that reopening schools. Reopenings don’t prove the safety of any activity, they just allow economic activity based on individual risk assessment. Schools are responsible for the health and safety of children and staff, and the bad news is that risk associated with reopening schools is increased by reopening businesses. We have people demanding that schools reopen while they travel to other areas for vacations or eat at indoor restaurants or return to the gym. People are willing to take on more risk and that will help to jump start the economy, which is a positive thing. However, the more we let our guard down, and the more of us engage in these higher risk activities, the less likely full time F2F school is.

This. Would parents be willing to give up all of this for FT F2F school? I doubt it. There are people already planning fall vacations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Correct. The cost of opening is more than just the the number of deaths caused by COVID. Community spread has to be considered, as well as the cost of putting reasonable mitigation measures in place. There are many competing interests that need to be considered on both sides.

It’s just like those who don’t think that shutting down was necessary. There might be truth to that under ideal circumstances. If we had enough PPE for everyone, if testing was readily available, if we had isolated and tested travelers earlier, if we had better contact tracing, etc., maybe we wouldn’t have needed to shut down. But we didn’t.

In a perfect would, we could protect teachers with plexiglass, add extra buses to allow social distancing, provide high quality masks to all teachers in school, have instant testing for staff or kids exhibiting minor symptoms, have extra custodial staff, have a solid plan in place for excluding sick kids and making sure they don’t lose out if they can’t come to school for two weeks, have staggered start times, etc. If we had all of those things, then the risk of reopening would likely be outweighed by the educational and mental health needs of children and the economic need for parents to have childcare. But we don’t live in a perfect world and we don’t have all of those things.

It already is. As you say, we don't live in a perfect world. We can't do all of the mitigation measures. So we send the kids back to school with the mitigation measures we can do.

Which ones? Regular bus routes? What social distancing do you recommend for crowded high schools?

Which ones? The ones we can do. For example, we can open bus windows. We can open classroom windows (for classrooms that have windows...) We can require masks. We can make sure that there's actually soap in the bathrooms.

Keeping kids out of school indefinitely is simply not an acceptable option. The kids are not all right.

I am genuinely curious how many parents and teachers would be fine with full-time in person classes, with only open bus windows, open classroom windows (not all school have that, you know), masks, and soap in the bathroom? Maybe also lunch in the classroom too. Is that enough? It isn’t to me, and that’s from the perspective of a parent of a high school senior who desperately wants to be in school.

My concern is the lack of space for social distancing. It doesn’t exist at DH’s school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Correct. The cost of opening is more than just the the number of deaths caused by COVID. Community spread has to be considered, as well as the cost of putting reasonable mitigation measures in place. There are many competing interests that need to be considered on both sides.

It’s just like those who don’t think that shutting down was necessary. There might be truth to that under ideal circumstances. If we had enough PPE for everyone, if testing was readily available, if we had isolated and tested travelers earlier, if we had better contact tracing, etc., maybe we wouldn’t have needed to shut down. But we didn’t.

In a perfect would, we could protect teachers with plexiglass, add extra buses to allow social distancing, provide high quality masks to all teachers in school, have instant testing for staff or kids exhibiting minor symptoms, have extra custodial staff, have a solid plan in place for excluding sick kids and making sure they don’t lose out if they can’t come to school for two weeks, have staggered start times, etc. If we had all of those things, then the risk of reopening would likely be outweighed by the educational and mental health needs of children and the economic need for parents to have childcare. But we don’t live in a perfect world and we don’t have all of those things.

It already is. As you say, we don't live in a perfect world. We can't do all of the mitigation measures. So we send the kids back to school with the mitigation measures we can do.

Which ones? Regular bus routes? What social distancing do you recommend for crowded high schools?

Which ones? The ones we can do. For example, we can open bus windows. We can open classroom windows (for classrooms that have windows...) We can require masks. We can make sure that there's actually soap in the bathrooms.

Keeping kids out of school indefinitely is simply not an acceptable option. The kids are not all right.

I am genuinely curious how many parents and teachers would be fine with full-time in person classes, with only open bus windows, open classroom windows (not all school have that, you know), masks, and soap in the bathroom? Maybe also lunch in the classroom too. Is that enough? It isn’t to me, and that’s from the perspective of a parent of a high school senior who desperately wants to be in school.

My concern is the lack of space for social distancing. It doesn’t exist at DH’s school.

Fine. Then don't send your child. There will be more space in the hallways.

My rising senior will have completed all of their graduation requirements by the end of the summer, and if there's "distance learning" again in August, I'm going to tell the kid to just go ahead and graduate. Whatever they come up with at Montgomery College will be better for the kid than more of the no-school we had in the spring.

Meanwhile plenty of class of 2020 kids on my kid's Instagram went to the beach. So I'm guessing that there are plenty of parents who aren't concerned.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do the people pushing for DL — be they teachers, staffers, parents, or whoever — honestly feel that DL is an adequate substitute for children? Self/driven adults seeking pro dev? Sure! But kids? Can you honestly say that? And at what age and for how many hours a day do you think this is true? Straight answers, please — no “it’s better th an nothing” or “we all have to sacrifice.” Really answer the question.

I do feel that DL is a satisfactory substitute in these times. My children were in 5th and 8th, and they took charge of their meeting calendars, their homework, etc. The elementary student had about 2 hours a day between the class meeting and the homework. I would prefer that had been more like 3 hours. The middle schooler had maybe a little more, and again I would have preferred a little more. Things they really missed were instrumental music and going to the library. But in no way was this a big disaster or joke for us. They missed their friends, but they kept learning. Subtracting out the bus ride, lunch, recess/PE, and travel time between classes, kids honestly only get maybe 3 hours of instruction a day at school anyway.

I don’t have a younger elementary student so I can’t speak to that.

How are your kids doing without the social interaction? Or are they having social interaction?

[Anonymous]

If we have to resign ourselves to home schooling, then the next question is whether an online school (already in place) can provide better learning than MCPS. This spring was ok and understandable due to the emergent global pandemic.

But I think we are looking at disruption for another year at least. My DD was really bored this spring with the DL and I would like her to continue pushing ahead and not get behind because MCPS can’t or won’t push ahead.

I understand the equity issues and want the best for all kids. But if they can’t provide my DD an education suited to her, am I being a good parent by leaving her in the chaos when I can afford better?

She felt badly about herself a couple of times for missing zoom calls this spring that were scheduled at a time that conflicted with another of her class’ zoom calls or because the teacher scheduled st the last minute.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do the people pushing for DL — be they teachers, staffers, parents, or whoever — honestly feel that DL is an adequate substitute for children? Self/driven adults seeking pro dev? Sure! But kids? Can you honestly say that? And at what age and for how many hours a day do you think this is true? Straight answers, please — no “it’s better th an nothing” or “we all have to sacrifice.” Really answer the question.

I do feel that DL is a satisfactory substitute in these times. My children were in 5th and 8th, and they took charge of their meeting calendars, their homework, etc. The elementary student had about 2 hours a day between the class meeting and the homework. I would prefer that had been more like 3 hours. The middle schooler had maybe a little more, and again I would have preferred a little more. Things they really missed were instrumental music and going to the library. But in no way was this a big disaster or joke for us. They missed their friends, but they kept learning. Subtracting out the bus ride, lunch, recess/PE, and travel time between classes, kids honestly only get maybe 3 hours of instruction a day at school anyway.

I don’t have a younger elementary student so I can’t speak to that.

We have kids in K and 2nd. The kindergartner it didn't really work. Teacher was great, but a 5 year old just isn't that developed to do lessons in front of a screen. She did great in a real classroom setting, but it's tough online. 2nd grader did OK. A very slow learning process, but she learned something i guess.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do the people pushing for DL — be they teachers, staffers, parents, or whoever — honestly feel that DL is an adequate substitute for children? Self/driven adults seeking pro dev? Sure! But kids? Can you honestly say that? And at what age and for how many hours a day do you think this is true? Straight answers, please — no “it’s better th an nothing” or “we all have to sacrifice.” Really answer the question.

I do feel that DL is a satisfactory substitute in these times. My children were in 5th and 8th, and they took charge of their meeting calendars, their homework, etc. The elementary student had about 2 hours a day between the class meeting and the homework. I would prefer that had been more like 3 hours. The middle schooler had maybe a little more, and again I would have preferred a little more. Things they really missed were instrumental music and going to the library. But in no way was this a big disaster or joke for us. They missed their friends, but they kept learning. Subtracting out the bus ride, lunch, recess/PE, and travel time between classes, kids honestly only get maybe 3 hours of instruction a day at school anyway.

I don’t have a younger elementary student so I can’t speak to that.

How are your kids doing without the social interaction? Or are they having social interaction?

They have one another, they do a lot of online hangouts, and they bike with friends. Yes they do still miss them though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If we have to resign ourselves to home schooling, then the next question is whether an online school (already in place) can provide better learning than MCPS. This spring was ok and understandable due to the emergent global pandemic.

But I think we are looking at disruption for another year at least. My DD was really bored this spring with the DL and I would like her to continue pushing ahead and not get behind because MCPS can’t or won’t push ahead.

I understand the equity issues and want the best for all kids. But if they can’t provide my DD an education suited to her, am I being a good parent by leaving her in the chaos when I can afford better?

She felt badly about herself a couple of times for missing zoom calls this spring that were scheduled at a time that conflicted with another of her class’ zoom calls or because the teacher scheduled st the last minute.

I look at it the other way around. If the so-called distance learning didn't even work for my privileged kids, whom did it work for?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If we have to resign ourselves to home schooling, then the next question is whether an online school (already in place) can provide better learning than MCPS. This spring was ok and understandable due to the emergent global pandemic.

But I think we are looking at disruption for another year at least. My DD was really bored this spring with the DL and I would like her to continue pushing ahead and not get behind because MCPS can’t or won’t push ahead.

I understand the equity issues and want the best for all kids. But if they can’t provide my DD an education suited to her, am I being a good parent by leaving her in the chaos when I can afford better?

She felt badly about herself a couple of times for missing zoom calls this spring that were scheduled at a time that conflicted with another of her class’ zoom calls or because the teacher scheduled st the last minute.

I look at it the other way around. If the so-called distance learning didn't even work for my privileged kids, whom did it work for?

+1000

[Anonymous]

They will open the schools. There will be outbreaks among students, teachers and staff. They will close the schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They will open the schools. There will be outbreaks among students, teachers and staff. They will close the schools.

They will open all of the schools. There will be outbreaks among students, teachers, and staff at some schools. They will close those schools, then re-open them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They will open the schools. There will be outbreaks among students, teachers and staff. They will close the schools.

They will open all of the schools. There will be outbreaks among students, teachers, and staff at some schools. They will close those schools, then re-open them.

I love all these experts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They will open the schools. There will be outbreaks among students, teachers and staff. They will close the schools.

They will open all of the schools. There will be outbreaks among students, teachers, and staff at some schools. They will close those schools, then re-open them.

I love all these experts.

You don't need to be an expert to see how this is going to go. Americans have demonstrated that they won't have the patience to endure more than a few months of lockdowns. They want to get back to "normal", consequences be damned. That's what's happening in general now. It'll happen with schools in the fall. When the outbreaks start, and kids get a little sick and staff, teachers and parents get very sick, and some of them die, the pendulum will swing in the other direction and schools will close again. Rinse and repeat. Everything is reactionary to whatever sentiment is ascendant at the moment. There is no guiding strategy to get us through this pandemic, which is a failure of leadership at all levels, but starting at the top.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They will open the schools. There will be outbreaks among students, teachers and staff. They will close the schools.

They will open all of the schools. There will be outbreaks among students, teachers, and staff at some schools. They will close those schools, then re-open them.

I love all these experts.

You don't need to be an expert to see how this is going to go. Americans have demonstrated that they won't have the patience to endure more than a few months of lockdowns. They want to get back to "normal", consequences be damned. That's what's happening in general now. It'll happen with schools in the fall. When the outbreaks start, and kids get a little sick and staff, teachers and parents get very sick, and some of them die, the pendulum will swing in the other direction and schools will close again. Rinse and repeat. Everything is reactionary to whatever sentiment is ascendant at the moment. There is no guiding strategy to get us through this pandemic, which is a failure of leadership at all levels, but starting at the top.

Nobody else did either. The difference is that other countries used the lockdown time to take effective measures. We in the US just wasted ours.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They will open the schools. There will be outbreaks among students, teachers and staff. They will close the schools.

They will open all of the schools. There will be outbreaks among students, teachers, and staff at some schools. They will close those schools, then re-open them.

I love all these experts.

You don't need to be an expert to see how this is going to go. Americans have demonstrated that they won't have the patience to endure more than a few months of lockdowns. They want to get back to "normal", consequences be damned. That's what's happening in general now. It'll happen with schools in the fall. When the outbreaks start, and kids get a little sick and staff, teachers and parents get very sick, and some of them die, the pendulum will swing in the other direction and schools will close again. Rinse and repeat. Everything is reactionary to whatever sentiment is ascendant at the moment. There is no guiding strategy to get us through this pandemic, which is a failure of leadership at all levels, but starting at the top.

Nobody else did either. The difference is that other countries used the lockdown time to take effective measures. We in the US just wasted ours.

yep.