3 children dead in private Christian elementary school shooting in TN

[Anonymous]

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A source close to the Hale family told The Daily Beast on Monday night that Hale was autistic, but high-functioning.

“And relatively recently announced she was transgender, identifying as he/him,” the source said, asking to remain unnamed so as to avoid additional family strife.

Reached by phone, Hale’s mother, Norma Fort Hale, told an ABC News reporter, “It’s very difficult now, we ask for privacy. I really can’t talk right now, I think I lost my daughter today.”

https://www.thedailybeast.com/nashville-covenant-school-shooting-suspect-identified-as-audrey-hale?ref=home

Well that checks out. She probably lost her son a long time ago. My mom lost me and I don’t know any trans people on good terms with their parents and I know a lot of other trans people. I’m sure someone out there exists but it seems pretty common to be completely estranged from one or both parents once you come out as trans. It just further isolates trans people if they don’t go out and try to find community and found family.

As the mother of a trans kid, I did not isolate my kid - my kid isolated me. Ask a question? PHOBIC!! Express a concern about treatment interfering with medicated conditions? PHOBIC! BIGOT! Spouse to me in private: "If you ask anything, our kid will commit suicide!" Me: "That sounds more like blackmail"

I’m sure your child has a completely different view of how you behaved. For most of the people I know, their estrangement is related to their family’s christianity. It’s certainly true in my case. I’m sure my mother makes herself the victim in my transition as well. It’s all about her. I harmed her by transitioning. She didn’t want me to do this. What became apparent over time was that to her, my body and my life was just an extension of her’s. I was nothing but an NPC in the story of her life. Your child being LGBTQ isn’t about you.

Not that poster, but trans teens/young adults are still teens/young adults. And they are self-centered, all the same. That's how humans are built. That's how we survive. But it can make for some rough relationships. I'm in my 50s and have had peers transition in their 30s and 40s and it looked much different than what teens are doing today. And their relationships with their immediate family are much healthier, likely because they were more mature when dealing with such a significant life change.

The shooter was 28, well beyond the magic age of 26 when the brain is supposed to be "done". This trans man seems to have had a vendetta. Why else would there be a manifesto?

If autism is present, it's a much longer journey. But I was speaking about a relationship with a parent, not a shooting.

I know a lot of trans people in their 30's and 40's. I'm one. None of us have good relationships with our parents. I know some people that still talk to their parents but even those aren't that common. One was told that she was afflicted with demonic possession by her catholic mother.

If not one has a good relationship with your parents, consider your own behavior as one of the reasons. My kid is being told to reject us, not the other way around.

Nobody is telling any kid to reject a supportive family member. Nobody. All you have are lies.

DP but I actually have a related experience in my family. My second cousin, whom I do not know very well, decided to transition from female to male. He sent an email to our entire extended family - probably like 30 or 40 email addresses - to announce his transition. The email was long and elf absorbed. About half the people responded with supportive messages. No one said anything unsupportive. My second cousin then sent a second email accusing the family as a whole of being transphobic and terrible people because - some - people failed to respond. No acknowledgement that maybe they just didn’t check their email or didn’t know him that well or felt like we were already innundated with repetitive supportive emails. He announced he was cutting himself off from the family. Mind you I’ve only met this person like five times in my life. It was so unnecessary. So I actually believe PP!

This.

I’m sick of the trans bashing in this thread—and I’m surprised Jeff allows it. Mass shooters have all kinds of different backgrounds and “issues”—why harp on the trans identity of this shooter and then try to tie it to your own negative impressions of trans people? This shooter has the same thing in common with all other shooters – – mental health problems combined with a desire to commit suicide.

PP here- Its relevant because its a possible (likely) motive for the shooting. A conservative school that likely didn't support this student in the way they thought they should be supported. In a state that is make life hell for trans people. Its as relevant as any other motive, why bury it? I'm guessing you don't have an issue around reporting when a white supremicist shoots up a Black church? Its just seems like disingenuious reporting by a serious new outlet.

No. The point is that motives are all over the board for mass shootings, from the right to the left.

The issue is NOT the motive. The issue is the easy access to guns. The issue is that mass shootings are more likely in states with more permissive gun laws.

Stop arguing about the motive. It's a useless spiral into inaction Every. Single. Time.

+1
This conversation is pointless to keep having endless variations of. Over and over. While the bodies pile up.

+1. Nitpicking motives is a useless game of whack-a-mole that distracts everyone from implementing solutions that would be effective REGARDLESS OF MOTIVE.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Mayor John Cooper is tone deaf moron. 5 seconds about kids, BUT, straight to the tremendous job of LEO. Police Chief John Drake. Why tf is he thanking first responders ad nauseam. Three seconds about victims. “My thoughts and prayers, BUT, I want to thank the first responders.” Earlier news, Police Chief said 6 kids were killed. He’s not too bright. They need to prove they’re not as dumb as Uvalde responders.

The police did exactly what they were supposed to do and saved lives. They deserve praise.

Kids still died. #fail

Not the police's fault.

It is everybody's fault. We failed our kids.

No, it’s the fault of everyone who votes for the GOP. They are the ones preventing any work on this issue. Did you vote for the Republican candidate because “the left was too crazy”? Congrats. This is on you. I’m not taking responsibility for Republican lawmakers who don’t care how many people get gunned down and their idiot voters who can’t figure out the world’s simplest cause and effect.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did the shooter get the guns legally and pass a background check? Perhaps the trans may have been a concern because of mental illness and unfit to purchase a gun

1. By definition, any mass shooter is mentally ill.

2. The APA no longer considers trans identity as a mental disorder.

Part of the background check should look into mental health, perhaps a question about transitioning

Let's keep it simple. BAN assault weapons. Then move on to severely regulating the rest of these killing tools.

That won't work.

Assault weapons are just scary looking rifles.

Also sniper rifles are the same as hunting rifles.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

A source close to the Hale family told The Daily Beast on Monday night that Hale was autistic, but high-functioning.

“And relatively recently announced she was transgender, identifying as he/him,” the source said, asking to remain unnamed so as to avoid additional family strife.

Reached by phone, Hale’s mother, Norma Fort Hale, told an ABC News reporter, “It’s very difficult now, we ask for privacy. I really can’t talk right now, I think I lost my daughter today.”

https://www.thedailybeast.com/nashville-covenant-school-shooting-suspect-identified-as-audrey-hale?ref=home

Well that checks out. She probably lost her son a long time ago. My mom lost me and I don’t know any trans people on good terms with their parents and I know a lot of other trans people. I’m sure someone out there exists but it seems pretty common to be completely estranged from one or both parents once you come out as trans. It just further isolates trans people if they don’t go out and try to find community and found family.

As the mother of a trans kid, I did not isolate my kid - my kid isolated me. Ask a question? PHOBIC!! Express a concern about treatment interfering with medicated conditions? PHOBIC! BIGOT! Spouse to me in private: "If you ask anything, our kid will commit suicide!" Me: "That sounds more like blackmail"

I’m sure your child has a completely different view of how you behaved. For most of the people I know, their estrangement is related to their family’s christianity. It’s certainly true in my case. I’m sure my mother makes herself the victim in my transition as well. It’s all about her. I harmed her by transitioning. She didn’t want me to do this. What became apparent over time was that to her, my body and my life was just an extension of her’s. I was nothing but an NPC in the story of her life. Your child being LGBTQ isn’t about you.

Not that poster, but trans teens/young adults are still teens/young adults. And they are self-centered, all the same. That's how humans are built. That's how we survive. But it can make for some rough relationships. I'm in my 50s and have had peers transition in their 30s and 40s and it looked much different than what teens are doing today. And their relationships with their immediate family are much healthier, likely because they were more mature when dealing with such a significant life change.

The shooter was 28, well beyond the magic age of 26 when the brain is supposed to be "done". This trans man seems to have had a vendetta. Why else would there be a manifesto?

If autism is present, it's a much longer journey. But I was speaking about a relationship with a parent, not a shooting.

I know a lot of trans people in their 30's and 40's. I'm one. None of us have good relationships with our parents. I know some people that still talk to their parents but even those aren't that common. One was told that she was afflicted with demonic possession by her catholic mother.

If not one has a good relationship with your parents, consider your own behavior as one of the reasons. My kid is being told to reject us, not the other way around.

Nobody is telling any kid to reject a supportive family member. Nobody. All you have are lies.

DP but I actually have a related experience in my family. My second cousin, whom I do not know very well, decided to transition from female to male. He sent an email to our entire extended family - probably like 30 or 40 email addresses - to announce his transition. The email was long and elf absorbed. About half the people responded with supportive messages. No one said anything unsupportive. My second cousin then sent a second email accusing the family as a whole of being transphobic and terrible people because - some - people failed to respond. No acknowledgement that maybe they just didn’t check their email or didn’t know him that well or felt like we were already innundated with repetitive supportive emails. He announced he was cutting himself off from the family. Mind you I’ve only met this person like five times in my life. It was so unnecessary. So I actually believe PP!

This.

I’m sick of the trans bashing in this thread—and I’m surprised Jeff allows it. Mass shooters have all kinds of different backgrounds and “issues”—why harp on the trans identity of this shooter and then try to tie it to your own negative impressions of trans people? This shooter has the same thing in common with all other shooters – – mental health problems combined with a desire to commit suicide.

PP here- Its relevant because its a possible (likely) motive for the shooting. A conservative school that likely didn't support this student in the way they thought they should be supported. In a state that is make life hell for trans people. Its as relevant as any other motive, why bury it? I'm guessing you don't have an issue around reporting when a white supremicist shoots up a Black church? Its just seems like disingenuious reporting by a serious new outlet.

why do you think the school was conservative? It is presbytarian...

Someone posted earlier that the school is PCA, not PCUSA. That’s the more conservative flavor of Presbyterian.
https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/tell-difference-presbyterian-denominations/?amp

Thank you for posting that. I've been very confused about it since I thought Presbyterians were just less formal Episcopalians. Didn't realize that there's an entire world of offshoot flavors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did the shooter get the guns legally and pass a background check? Perhaps the trans may have been a concern because of mental illness and unfit to purchase a gun

1. By definition, any mass shooter is mentally ill.

2. The APA no longer considers trans identity as a mental disorder.

Part of the background check should look into mental health, perhaps a question about transitioning

Let's keep it simple. BAN assault weapons. Then move on to severely regulating the rest of these killing tools.

That won't work.

Assault weapons are just scary looking rifles.

Also sniper rifles are the same as hunting rifles.

It's a start. Chip away a little at a time. There's no other way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did the shooter get the guns legally and pass a background check? Perhaps the trans may have been a concern because of mental illness and unfit to purchase a gun

1. By definition, any mass shooter is mentally ill.

2. The APA no longer considers trans identity as a mental disorder.

Part of the background check should look into mental health, perhaps a question about transitioning

Let's keep it simple. BAN assault weapons. Then move on to severely regulating the rest of these killing tools.

That won't work.

Assault weapons are just scary looking rifles.

Also sniper rifles are the same as hunting rifles.

It's a start. Chip away a little at a time. There's no other way.

Agree. Assault weapons ban is low hanging fruit since it was in place for 10 years and the world did not come to end. Life goes on just find without assault weapons polluting our country.

[Anonymous]

The people who demand a 100% solution for gun violence before taking action to restrict access to guns are probably the same ones who opposed any COVID mitigation strategy that reduced harm from COVID but did not eliminate it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Switching gears for a moment, these cops are absolute heroes. I wish the Uvalde police had been this brave:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11911549/Cops-release-six-minutes-bodycam-footage-Nashville-school-shooting.html?ico=related-replace-2

Wow, that was incredible to watch.

Those sirens--those are something in the school? I've never heard ones like that before.

And the lady/employee who was outside and gave the keys to the officer--I feel like if I was in that situation I wouldn't have the presence of mind to grab the keys before evacuating the building...or maybe she keeps them on her at all times? She was much calmer than I would have been.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I bet the parents were all Republicans. Remember, this is a private Christian school in Tennessee that we’re talking about.

the shooter’s mother called for gun control prior to the shooting

Ok, assume they were, and? She was 28 years old. What do her parents have to do with this at all?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who cares about the gender identity of the shooter? Who cares about the MOTIVE? The fact is this person had easy access to weapons of WAR! Ban the assault rifles and get rid of the 2nd amendment once and for all.

I can’t believe the excuses people are coming up with trying to argue about the shooter’s trans identity or the motive.

People care because there’s a culture war surrounding trans people right now.

It might relate to why the particular religious school was targeted. This is a possible hate crime/terror attack.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did the shooter get the guns legally and pass a background check? Perhaps the trans may have been a concern because of mental illness and unfit to purchase a gun

1. By definition, any mass shooter is mentally ill.

2. The APA no longer considers trans identity as a mental disorder.

Part of the background check should look into mental health, perhaps a question about transitioning

Let's keep it simple. BAN assault weapons. Then move on to severely regulating the rest of these killing tools.

That won't work.

Assault weapons are just scary looking rifles.

Also sniper rifles are the same as hunting rifles.

It's a start. Chip away a little at a time. There's no other way.

Agree. Assault weapons ban is low hanging fruit since it was in place for 10 years and the world did not come to end. Life goes on just find without assault weapons polluting our country.

+1 they can institute basically the same assault weapons ban that was in place prior to 2005 or whenever it expired and that’s easy enough to do without reinventing the wheel. Then go from there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
PP here- Its relevant because its a possible (likely) motive for the shooting. A conservative school that likely didn't support this student in the way they thought they should be supported. In a state that is make life hell for trans people. It’s as relevant as any other motive, why bury it? I'm guessing you don't have an issue around reporting when a white supremicist shoots up a Black church? It’s just seems like disingenuious reporting by a serious new outlet.

why do you think the school was conservative? It is presbytarian...

Someone posted earlier that the school is PCA, not PCUSA. That’s the more conservative flavor of Presbyterian.
https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/tell-difference-presbyterian-denominations/?amp

Thank you for posting that. I've been very confused about it since I thought Presbyterians were just less formal Episcopalians. Didn't realize that there's an entire world of offshoot flavors.

Covenant school is a feeder school for Christ Presbyterian Academy (CPA), also PCA associated. governor lees kids graduated from CPA. The same governor who is banning trans healthcare for minors, etc. really surprised this connection hasn’t been talked about. Any yes, the covenant families are likely republicans who support Lee and rep ogles.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who cares about the gender identity of the shooter? Who cares about the MOTIVE? The fact is this person had easy access to weapons of WAR! Ban the assault rifles and get rid of the 2nd amendment once and for all.

I can’t believe the excuses people are coming up with trying to argue about the shooter’s trans identity or the motive.

People care because there’s a culture war surrounding trans people right now.

It might relate to why the particular religious school was targeted. This is a possible hate crime/terror attack.

Well apparently he attended there at one point in his life. We won't know more until they release his manifesto.

[Anonymous]

I get that Jeff is frustrated with the seeming callousness of some pps but… what are we supposed to do at this point? The Republican Party blocks any and all policies and bans that might stop these.

I know I get a catch in my throat anytime I hear multiple sirens during the day; my kids’ schools are just up the street and my fear is that their school will be the next one shot into, that it’ll be their little bodies ripped apart. And why? Because Timmy Suburbia likes to feel like a big man and having a big gun is the only way he can do that? Because Shelley and Sherman Smallmind use shooting big guns as a way to get excited together?

What. What is it. It’s ONE PARTY and their voters doing this. It’s one party that means that three more sets of parents of young kids and the families of three adults have to plan a funeral and never see that lovely person again and I’m just all the duck out of tears when the tears of the empathetic seems to fuel the psychopathy of the GOP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did the shooter get the guns legally and pass a background check? Perhaps the trans may have been a concern because of mental illness and unfit to purchase a gun

1. By definition, any mass shooter is mentally ill.

2. The APA no longer considers trans identity as a mental disorder.

Part of the background check should look into mental health, perhaps a question about transitioning

Let's keep it simple. BAN assault weapons. Then move on to severely regulating the rest of these killing tools.

That won't work.

Assault weapons are just scary looking rifles.

Also sniper rifles are the same as hunting rifles.

It's a start. Chip away a little at a time. There's no other way.

Agree. Assault weapons ban is low hanging fruit since it was in place for 10 years and the world did not come to end. Life goes on just find without assault weapons polluting our country.

+1 they can institute basically the same assault weapons ban that was in place prior to 2005 or whenever it expired and that’s easy enough to do without reinventing the wheel. Then go from there.

A) That’s not easy to do
B) 20 million AR-15s and similar rifles have been purchased since the AWB was lifted