3 children dead in private Christian elementary school shooting in TN

[Anonymous]

All these monsters have some messed up motive. Turn off the easy access to these weapons. Stop giving so much attention to the shooters....I thought that was the new policy for Media......to stop printing the names of these monsters and giving them the platform they crave

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nothing to see here. Probably had too many doors and too little God at that Christian school.

Thoughts and prayers, but certainly no actionable changes needed.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/crime/nashville-school-shooting-green-hills-b2308856.html

Just stop.

Such a hateful statement.
Thankfully, the shooter is dead. Pray for the children and the families.

OP here. I am a mother of two elementary school students and I am fed up with "thoughts and prayers" and no action every time I see another school shooting.

So unless you have something more productive to offer than "pray" (FYI, I'm an atheist, so no, I won't), you stop please. Stop and offer potential solutions that aren't prayers and more doors.

How is offering potential solutions in a conversation or online any different than thoughts and prayers. There isn’t. It was another school shooting. Please move along. -NP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nothing to see here. Probably had too many doors and too little God at that Christian school.

Thoughts and prayers, but certainly no actionable changes needed.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/crime/nashville-school-shooting-green-hills-b2308856.html

Just stop.

Such a hateful statement.
Thankfully, the shooter is dead. Pray for the children and the families.

OP here. I am a mother of two elementary school students and I am fed up with "thoughts and prayers" and no action every time I see another school shooting.

So unless you have something more productive to offer than "pray" (FYI, I'm an atheist, so no, I won't), you stop please. Stop and offer potential solutions that aren't prayers and more doors.

How is offering potential solutions in a conversation or online any different than thoughts and prayers. There isn’t. It was another school shooting. Please move along. -NP

It is completely different. One does something to stop the problem. The other doesn't.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Doesn't matter who the shooter is. They had access to a gun and committed a mass murder that included innocent children, just as our nation has had many, many other mass shootings along with all other forms of gun violence and we continue to do nothing.

Conservatives will continue to do nothing and if the shooter is trans (not confirmed at this time), perfect example of how they will continue to deflect from ACTUAL SOLUTIONS THAT WILL SAVE LIVES.

Stop the deflection and start with solutions.

We can’t control people but we can guns.

You can only control guns that are LEGAL. You can only infringe on freedoms of law abiding citizens. You can't do anything about criminals, who will retain have access to their guns. Hey, lets make some more laws to punish law abiding gun owners, especially those who own those scary looking rifles.

Don’t care about law abiding gun owners. I don’t care about your feelings and possessions, I worry about people being shot, especially kids.

A law abiding gun owner has nothing to worry about from increased gun regulation. I think the problem is the gun owners aren't actually law abiding and that's why they are so freaked out about gun control.

I’m PP. No, I want law abiding gun owners to lose gun rights. They should be more concerned with other people’s right to not be shot than their right to own guns. I’m tired of their unwillingness to sacrifice for the greater good. We’ve given enough lives on my side for their rights.

How exactly would that work? Sure, some people will turn them in should the laws change, but a sizable number will not. That's not just 2a activists, its also the criminal element who isn't supposed to have them in the first place. Firearms are easily made now with 3d printers.

Door to door confiscation is a non-starter.

Exactly. PP is completely unrealistic to propose a law she should know would be immediately struck down as unconstitutional.

[Anonymous]

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A source close to the Hale family told The Daily Beast on Monday night that Hale was autistic, but high-functioning.

“And relatively recently announced she was transgender, identifying as he/him,” the source said, asking to remain unnamed so as to avoid additional family strife.

Reached by phone, Hale’s mother, Norma Fort Hale, told an ABC News reporter, “It’s very difficult now, we ask for privacy. I really can’t talk right now, I think I lost my daughter today.”

https://www.thedailybeast.com/nashville-covenant-school-shooting-suspect-identified-as-audrey-hale?ref=home

Well that checks out. She probably lost her son a long time ago. My mom lost me and I don’t know any trans people on good terms with their parents and I know a lot of other trans people. I’m sure someone out there exists but it seems pretty common to be completely estranged from one or both parents once you come out as trans. It just further isolates trans people if they don’t go out and try to find community and found family.

As the mother of a trans kid, I did not isolate my kid - my kid isolated me. Ask a question? PHOBIC!! Express a concern about treatment interfering with medicated conditions? PHOBIC! BIGOT! Spouse to me in private: "If you ask anything, our kid will commit suicide!" Me: "That sounds more like blackmail"

I’m sure your child has a completely different view of how you behaved. For most of the people I know, their estrangement is related to their family’s christianity. It’s certainly true in my case. I’m sure my mother makes herself the victim in my transition as well. It’s all about her. I harmed her by transitioning. She didn’t want me to do this. What became apparent over time was that to her, my body and my life was just an extension of her’s. I was nothing but an NPC in the story of her life. Your child being LGBTQ isn’t about you.

Not that poster, but trans teens/young adults are still teens/young adults. And they are self-centered, all the same. That's how humans are built. That's how we survive. But it can make for some rough relationships. I'm in my 50s and have had peers transition in their 30s and 40s and it looked much different than what teens are doing today. And their relationships with their immediate family are much healthier, likely because they were more mature when dealing with such a significant life change.

The shooter was 28, well beyond the magic age of 26 when the brain is supposed to be "done". This trans man seems to have had a vendetta. Why else would there be a manifesto?

If autism is present, it's a much longer journey. But I was speaking about a relationship with a parent, not a shooting.

I know a lot of trans people in their 30's and 40's. I'm one. None of us have good relationships with our parents. I know some people that still talk to their parents but even those aren't that common. One was told that she was afflicted with demonic possession by her catholic mother.

If not one has a good relationship with your parents, consider your own behavior as one of the reasons. My kid is being told to reject us, not the other way around.

Nobody is telling any kid to reject a supportive family member. Nobody. All you have are lies.

DP but I actually have a related experience in my family. My second cousin, whom I do not know very well, decided to transition from female to male. He sent an email to our entire extended family - probably like 30 or 40 email addresses - to announce his transition. The email was long and elf absorbed. About half the people responded with supportive messages. No one said anything unsupportive. My second cousin then sent a second email accusing the family as a whole of being transphobic and terrible people because - some - people failed to respond. No acknowledgement that maybe they just didn’t check their email or didn’t know him that well or felt like we were already innundated with repetitive supportive emails. He announced he was cutting himself off from the family. Mind you I’ve only met this person like five times in my life. It was so unnecessary. So I actually believe PP!

This.

I’m sick of the trans bashing in this thread—and I’m surprised Jeff allows it. Mass shooters have all kinds of different backgrounds and “issues”—why harp on the trans identity of this shooter and then try to tie it to your own negative impressions of trans people? This shooter has the same thing in common with all other shooters – – mental health problems combined with a desire to commit suicide.

PP here- Its relevant because its a possible (likely) motive for the shooting. A conservative school that likely didn't support this student in the way they thought they should be supported. In a state that is make life hell for trans people. Its as relevant as any other motive, why bury it? I'm guessing you don't have an issue around reporting when a white supremicist shoots up a Black church? Its just seems like disingenuious reporting by a serious new outlet.

why do you think the school was conservative? It is presbytarian...

Someone posted earlier that the school is PCA, not PCUSA. That’s the more conservative flavor of Presbyterian.
https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/tell-difference-presbyterian-denominations/?amp

[Anonymous]

Is it too late for sensible gun controls in the US? There are more guns than people now plus ghost guns are being made in basements …

I hope there is hope for reducing gun violence in the US - not sure though …

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Who cares about the gender identity of the shooter? Who cares about the MOTIVE? . . . get rid of the 2nd amendment once and for all.

I can’t believe the excuses people are coming up with trying to argue about the shooter’s trans identity or the motive.

Who cares? Seriously?? If you’d even bothered to read the intro page to DCUM, you’d see Jeff cares, along with most other reasonable people (but not you, apparently).

Jeff also cautioned to wait for all the facts to come out, for instance:

-how far along on his transition had the shooter come? Was he receiving gender-affirming care? Jeff already raised these questions. Apparently PP, you are having difficult following the conversation here.

Your second proposal is unrealistic to a ridiculous degree, and frankly smacks of hysterical ranting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Did the shooter get the guns legally and pass a background check? Perhaps the trans may have been a concern because of mental illness and unfit to purchase a gun

1. By definition, any mass shooter is mentally ill.

2. The APA no longer considers trans identity as a mental disorder.

Part of the background check should look into mental health, perhaps a question about transitioning

Let's keep it simple. BAN assault weapons. Then move on to severely regulating the rest of these killing tools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who cares about the gender identity of the shooter? Who cares about the MOTIVE? The fact is this person had easy access to weapons of WAR! Ban the assault rifles and get rid of the 2nd amendment once and for all.

I can’t believe the excuses people are coming up with trying to argue about the shooter’s trans identity or the motive.

People care because there’s a culture war surrounding trans people right now.

Are we really going to talk about a culture war surrounding trans people while 3 9 yr olds and 3 teachers were killed? I think the trans community should sit this one out and focus on the carnage that actually happened. Plenty of other opportunities to talk about trans rights and the war against them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who cares about the gender identity of the shooter? Who cares about the MOTIVE? The fact is this person had easy access to weapons of WAR! Ban the assault rifles and get rid of the 2nd amendment once and for all.

I can’t believe the excuses people are coming up with trying to argue about the shooter’s trans identity or the motive.

People care because there’s a culture war surrounding trans people right now.

Are we really going to talk about a culture war surrounding trans people while 3 9 yr olds and 3 teachers were killed? I think the trans community should sit this one out and focus on the carnage that actually happened. Plenty of other opportunities to talk about trans rights and the war against them.

Yes, that's why people are talking about his trans identity so much. This kind of thing literally never happens for most shootings. Thoughts and prayers and all that.

[Anonymous]

It's not about mental health check. You can buy a gun and be fine mentally and develop mental issues at a later date.

It's about HOW TO USE a gun in the correct way. It's about the culture of what it means to use a firearm. It's about civilized behavior. It's about not preaching hate and limiting stupidity. About gun safety rules.

Unfortunately, in a country as large and diverse as US, it's impossible to limit/reasonably manage gun ownership to provide for safety of all citizens. So the argument above will never really work. We just have change the 2nd Amendment outright. That will never happen either however.

So - we're in a hot mess because now. Fact is that there's so many out there, people will just continue buying more to feel "safe." There's kinda no way out of this mess unless something really radical happens where we're able to limit the amount of guns on the street. Unsure what the answer is but no laws are going to save us at this point. We've let it go too far.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who cares about the gender identity of the shooter? Who cares about the MOTIVE? The fact is this person had easy access to weapons of WAR! Ban the assault rifles and get rid of the 2nd amendment once and for all.

I can’t believe the excuses people are coming up with trying to argue about the shooter’s trans identity or the motive.

People care because there’s a culture war surrounding trans people right now.

Are we really going to talk about a culture war surrounding trans people while 3 9 yr olds and 3 teachers were killed? I think the trans community should sit this one out and focus on the carnage that actually happened. Plenty of other opportunities to talk about trans rights and the war against them.

The trans community would love to sit this one out. They're not the ones making the shooter's identity a big part of the story, the people who hate them are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who cares about the gender identity of the shooter? Who cares about the MOTIVE? The fact is this person had easy access to weapons of WAR! Ban the assault rifles and get rid of the 2nd amendment once and for all.

I can’t believe the excuses people are coming up with trying to argue about the shooter’s trans identity or the motive.

People care because there’s a culture war surrounding trans people right now.

You mean the manufactured "crisis" amplified across all the MAGA/Q/R "news" sources? Hmmm, I wonder what's to gain from all this? Perhaps to distract from the social issues people really care about, like political control of women (and their healthcare), the massive & unconscionable number of mass shooting deaths, lack of fair & equal healthcare for all citizens.........

[Anonymous]

Switching gears for a moment, these cops are absolute heroes. I wish the Uvalde police had been this brave:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11911549/Cops-release-six-minutes-bodycam-footage-Nashville-school-shooting.html?ico=related-replace-2

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

A source close to the Hale family told The Daily Beast on Monday night that Hale was autistic, but high-functioning.

“And relatively recently announced she was transgender, identifying as he/him,” the source said, asking to remain unnamed so as to avoid additional family strife.

Reached by phone, Hale’s mother, Norma Fort Hale, told an ABC News reporter, “It’s very difficult now, we ask for privacy. I really can’t talk right now, I think I lost my daughter today.”

https://www.thedailybeast.com/nashville-covenant-school-shooting-suspect-identified-as-audrey-hale?ref=home

Well that checks out. She probably lost her son a long time ago. My mom lost me and I don’t know any trans people on good terms with their parents and I know a lot of other trans people. I’m sure someone out there exists but it seems pretty common to be completely estranged from one or both parents once you come out as trans. It just further isolates trans people if they don’t go out and try to find community and found family.

As the mother of a trans kid, I did not isolate my kid - my kid isolated me. Ask a question? PHOBIC!! Express a concern about treatment interfering with medicated conditions? PHOBIC! BIGOT! Spouse to me in private: "If you ask anything, our kid will commit suicide!" Me: "That sounds more like blackmail"

I’m sure your child has a completely different view of how you behaved. For most of the people I know, their estrangement is related to their family’s christianity. It’s certainly true in my case. I’m sure my mother makes herself the victim in my transition as well. It’s all about her. I harmed her by transitioning. She didn’t want me to do this. What became apparent over time was that to her, my body and my life was just an extension of her’s. I was nothing but an NPC in the story of her life. Your child being LGBTQ isn’t about you.

Not that poster, but trans teens/young adults are still teens/young adults. And they are self-centered, all the same. That's how humans are built. That's how we survive. But it can make for some rough relationships. I'm in my 50s and have had peers transition in their 30s and 40s and it looked much different than what teens are doing today. And their relationships with their immediate family are much healthier, likely because they were more mature when dealing with such a significant life change.

The shooter was 28, well beyond the magic age of 26 when the brain is supposed to be "done". This trans man seems to have had a vendetta. Why else would there be a manifesto?

If autism is present, it's a much longer journey. But I was speaking about a relationship with a parent, not a shooting.

I know a lot of trans people in their 30's and 40's. I'm one. None of us have good relationships with our parents. I know some people that still talk to their parents but even those aren't that common. One was told that she was afflicted with demonic possession by her catholic mother.

If not one has a good relationship with your parents, consider your own behavior as one of the reasons. My kid is being told to reject us, not the other way around.

Nobody is telling any kid to reject a supportive family member. Nobody. All you have are lies.

DP but I actually have a related experience in my family. My second cousin, whom I do not know very well, decided to transition from female to male. He sent an email to our entire extended family - probably like 30 or 40 email addresses - to announce his transition. The email was long and elf absorbed. About half the people responded with supportive messages. No one said anything unsupportive. My second cousin then sent a second email accusing the family as a whole of being transphobic and terrible people because - some - people failed to respond. No acknowledgement that maybe they just didn’t check their email or didn’t know him that well or felt like we were already innundated with repetitive supportive emails. He announced he was cutting himself off from the family. Mind you I’ve only met this person like five times in my life. It was so unnecessary. So I actually believe PP!

This.

I’m sick of the trans bashing in this thread—and I’m surprised Jeff allows it. Mass shooters have all kinds of different backgrounds and “issues”—why harp on the trans identity of this shooter and then try to tie it to your own negative impressions of trans people? This shooter has the same thing in common with all other shooters – – mental health problems combined with a desire to commit suicide.

PP here- Its relevant because its a possible (likely) motive for the shooting. A conservative school that likely didn't support this student in the way they thought they should be supported. In a state that is make life hell for trans people. Its as relevant as any other motive, why bury it? I'm guessing you don't have an issue around reporting when a white supremicist shoots up a Black church? Its just seems like disingenuious reporting by a serious new outlet.

No. The point is that motives are all over the board for mass shootings, from the right to the left.

The issue is NOT the motive. The issue is the easy access to guns. The issue is that mass shootings are more likely in states with more permissive gun laws.

Stop arguing about the motive. It's a useless spiral into inaction Every. Single. Time.

+1
This conversation is pointless to keep having endless variations of. Over and over. While the bodies pile up.