TJ admissions now verifying free and reduced price meal status for successful 2026 applicants

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids friend, who has been in AAP, couldn't get into algebra I in 7th, got few B+, A-s, got in to TJ, has wealth/educated parents, openly admitted to friends that he lied about all sorts of things on the portrait sheet as he and his parents know there is not going to be validation of anything they claim in the essays. May be this other kid is better at articulating things, but there is no way this kid should be preferred over a straight A students from the same school with demonstrable stem achievements, just based on few less than perfect lines in an essay. There are few that defend the new process to death, probably never didn't have their kids go through such unexpected rejections.

I had a friend who criticized so much about insurance companies covering for pre-existing conditions, how it gets expensive for everyone, country will break down, blah blah, but once someone in the family diagnosed with a serious medical condition, realized that it could happen to anyone. So, no one realizes until it hurts.

The old process is bad, but new process is far worse.

And you don't think that there were kids who exaggerated or lied in essays in years past? No system is going to prevent all forms of abuse. Do you think that a high percentage of kids lied in their portrait essay?

Your kid might have been rejected under the old system because there are far more applicants then there are seats. And there are a lot of kids with the high test scores and grades and STEM activities. There is no guarantee that your kid would have been accepted. You can feel free to hold on to your perceived injustice over the essay but the reality is that many kids are denied entrance. And those kids who were from under represented schools that got a spot because of the 1.5% distribution come from schools that have been disadvantaged in the application process because they don't have STEM activities after school or they couldn't afford STEM extra activities or they didn't know about them because their parents are not on top of all things STEM.

Well, it matters a lot more now because SPS and science essay carry 600 points, where GPA can only make a difference of 37.5 points (since min req is 3.5 and max is 4.0, scaled to 300). I hope you understand why essays are so critical in the new process and even some seemingly innocent typos or minor grammatical mistakes made in hurry (by less prepared) can potentially cost a lot depending on who is grading the essays and how much tolerant they are about the mistakes.

Unlike multiple choice questions, essay grading is very subjective. Forget essays, my kids school had two math teachers for geometry HN and one is known to be very strict and cuts as much as half the marks for missing a single step or symbol, while other teacher ignores these things and only focuses on whether the kids really understood the problem. I see the merits in both approaches, but if the math score determines who gets the brownie at the end, then which class would you rather be?

The bolded is a key issue. With 2500+ applications, there's no way that the same panel of two graders is handling everyone's SPS or everyone's problem solving essay. The final point totals for any applicant may be determined more by whether they had the luck of the draw and got lenient graders vs. tough graders. There's also most likely some degree of "olympic scoring," wherein the first kids reviewed end up with relatively lower scores than they rightfully deserved.

I'd prefer a lottery over the current process. It would be equally random, but at least the rejections would no longer feel quite so personal for the high achieving kids who ought to have been accepted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:haha, based on who got admitted and who didn't, my kid claims that it got be a lottery as none of them could find any correlation and refused to believe anything I said. Also, refused to admit that TJ admitted kids are smarter as so many really smart kids got waitlisted, which is beyond belief. Well, I pointed to a few smart kids that got in, but my kid says if its a lottery, then sure, some of the admitted will be smart

What the kids infer is what matters. They'll share this with their parents and it will also impact how they approach whether to apply to TJ and how much effort they invest in the applications process if they do apply. The writing is on the wall. Applications were down this year vs. last year and that trend may well continue.

Maybe if it becomes less shiny then just the real STEM kids will apply. Fewer students being pushed on a TJ death march since 2nd grade by their parents who like shiny things.

The "real STEM kids" increasingly will be found at other schools. Their parents will still like what you refer you disparagingly as "shiny things," but TJ will be the cubic zirconia of high schools.

If by real STEM you mean people who had to buy the test sure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:haha, based on who got admitted and who didn't, my kid claims that it got be a lottery as none of them could find any correlation and refused to believe anything I said. Also, refused to admit that TJ admitted kids are smarter as so many really smart kids got waitlisted, which is beyond belief. Well, I pointed to a few smart kids that got in, but my kid says if its a lottery, then sure, some of the admitted will be smart

What the kids infer is what matters. They'll share this with their parents and it will also impact how they approach whether to apply to TJ and how much effort they invest in the applications process if they do apply. The writing is on the wall. Applications were down this year vs. last year and that trend may well continue.

Maybe if it becomes less shiny then just the real STEM kids will apply. Fewer students being pushed on a TJ death march since 2nd grade by their parents who like shiny things.

The "real STEM kids" increasingly will be found at other schools. Their parents will still like what you refer you disparagingly as "shiny things," but TJ will be the cubic zirconia of high schools.

If by real STEM you mean people who had to buy the test sure.

Your one note started to ring flat some time ago.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids friend, who has been in AAP, couldn't get into algebra I in 7th, got few B+, A-s, got in to TJ, has wealth/educated parents, openly admitted to friends that he lied about all sorts of things on the portrait sheet as he and his parents know there is not going to be validation of anything they claim in the essays. May be this other kid is better at articulating things, but there is no way this kid should be preferred over a straight A students from the same school with demonstrable stem achievements, just based on few less than perfect lines in an essay. There are few that defend the new process to death, probably never didn't have their kids go through such unexpected rejections.

I had a friend who criticized so much about insurance companies covering for pre-existing conditions, how it gets expensive for everyone, country will break down, blah blah, but once someone in the family diagnosed with a serious medical condition, realized that it could happen to anyone. So, no one realizes until it hurts.

The old process is bad, but new process is far worse.

And you don't think that there were kids who exaggerated or lied in essays in years past? No system is going to prevent all forms of abuse. Do you think that a high percentage of kids lied in their portrait essay?

Your kid might have been rejected under the old system because there are far more applicants then there are seats. And there are a lot of kids with the high test scores and grades and STEM activities. There is no guarantee that your kid would have been accepted. You can feel free to hold on to your perceived injustice over the essay but the reality is that many kids are denied entrance. And those kids who were from under represented schools that got a spot because of the 1.5% distribution come from schools that have been disadvantaged in the application process because they don't have STEM activities after school or they couldn't afford STEM extra activities or they didn't know about them because their parents are not on top of all things STEM.

Well, it matters a lot more now because SPS and science essay carry 600 points, where GPA can only make a difference of 37.5 points (since min req is 3.5 and max is 4.0, scaled to 300). I hope you understand why essays are so critical in the new process and even some seemingly innocent typos or minor grammatical mistakes made in hurry (by less prepared) can potentially cost a lot depending on who is grading the essays and how much tolerant they are about the mistakes.

Unlike multiple choice questions, essay grading is very subjective. Forget essays, my kids school had two math teachers for geometry HN and one is known to be very strict and cuts as much as half the marks for missing a single step or symbol, while other teacher ignores these things and only focuses on whether the kids really understood the problem. I see the merits in both approaches, but if the math score determines who gets the brownie at the end, then which class would you rather be?

The bolded is a key issue. With 2500+ applications, there's no way that the same panel of two graders is handling everyone's SPS or everyone's problem solving essay. The final point totals for any applicant may be determined more by whether they had the luck of the draw and got lenient graders vs. tough graders. There's also most likely some degree of "olympic scoring," wherein the first kids reviewed end up with relatively lower scores than they rightfully deserved.

I'd prefer a lottery over the current process. It would be equally random, but at least the rejections would no longer feel quite so personal for the high achieving kids who ought to have been accepted.

Exactly. And it would be clear, unlike the new process that is quickly leading to a loss of respect for TJ.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone on this page should follow the discussion on Progressives gone wild in San Francisco and the blowback from "regular" Dems (SFO is overwhelmingly dem and has recalled 3 progressive school board members and a progressive DA)

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1063188.page

Our School Board should see the writing on the wall and quit.

Most people are sick on virtue signaling that is eating away at community values

One value our community has is providing educational resources for the community. Not just a handful of wealthy middle schools.

You obviously hate Carson, Longfellow, Cooper, and Rocky Run MS, so you think capping the number of TJ students from those schools will stick it to the "wealthy middle schools."

Instead, it will just make Langley, McLean, Oakton, and Chantilly HS more attractive, as education-focused parents hedge their bets by moving into those pyramids.

And the students at schools like Annandale, Lewis, Justice, and Mount Vernon who would have been role models at those schools? They'll more likely be at TJ instead - which over time will become more like an AAP program at the HS level.

This is what happens when you equate "educational resources" with enrollment at a single HS in a system with 25 high or secondary schools. It's the law of unintended consequences.

I don't "hate" any middle school and I don't think anyone is trying to "stick it to" anyone. It's not about you.

Our community would love to see less opportunity hoarding by a small group of parents who have figured out the specific steps required to game the system and the community would love to increase access for more of the community.

We can agree that we do not want opportunity hoarding by a small group of parents who have figured out how to game the system. The previous system was broken.

The "reform" unfortunately excludes truly deserving kids from feeder schools with parents who are all on the straight and the narrow. They have approached the admissions process the way it should be approached but there is no way for them to succeed. And that is nota acceptable. The School Board is throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

Any time a concerned parent tries to speak up, they are drowned out by chants that all preppers are cheats. And that is the crux of the issue.

This is not an issue between preppers/gamers at the feeder schools and the under-represented schools. That is an easy one to resolve.

This is an issue between the truly deserving STEM students at feeder schools and the process that does not give them an opportunity. These kids also come from tax paying households and deserve a fair shake.

Great. It sounds like everyone - aside from the cheaters/preppers who continue to push irrational claims - can work together to come up to tweak the current process to identify the best candidates from across the county.

I think you have an exaggerated sense of who is invested in TJ and the extent to which they are invested. It's not the only game in town. Mess around with it too much and people look elsewhere.

There are enough “invested” to support a whole TJ prep industry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:haha, based on who got admitted and who didn't, my kid claims that it got be a lottery as none of them could find any correlation and refused to believe anything I said. Also, refused to admit that TJ admitted kids are smarter as so many really smart kids got waitlisted, which is beyond belief. Well, I pointed to a few smart kids that got in, but my kid says if its a lottery, then sure, some of the admitted will be smart

What the kids infer is what matters. They'll share this with their parents and it will also impact how they approach whether to apply to TJ and how much effort they invest in the applications process if they do apply. The writing is on the wall. Applications were down this year vs. last year and that trend may well continue.

Maybe if it becomes less shiny then just the real STEM kids will apply. Fewer students being pushed on a TJ death march since 2nd grade by their parents who like shiny things.

Or it could be the other way, real STEM kids might feel TJ is no longer a special thing and not worth it.

Maybe they weren’t “real STEM kids” after all. Maybe they were just children of striver parents obsessed with prestige.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:haha, based on who got admitted and who didn't, my kid claims that it got be a lottery as none of them could find any correlation and refused to believe anything I said. Also, refused to admit that TJ admitted kids are smarter as so many really smart kids got waitlisted, which is beyond belief. Well, I pointed to a few smart kids that got in, but my kid says if its a lottery, then sure, some of the admitted will be smart

What the kids infer is what matters. They'll share this with their parents and it will also impact how they approach whether to apply to TJ and how much effort they invest in the applications process if they do apply. The writing is on the wall. Applications were down this year vs. last year and that trend may well continue.

Maybe if it becomes less shiny then just the real STEM kids will apply. Fewer students being pushed on a TJ death march since 2nd grade by their parents who like shiny things.

The "real STEM kids" increasingly will be found at other schools. Their parents will still like what you refer you disparagingly as "shiny things," but TJ will be the cubic zirconia of high schools.

I guess striver parents are always chasing the shiniest object.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids friend, who has been in AAP, couldn't get into algebra I in 7th, got few B+, A-s, got in to TJ, has wealth/educated parents, openly admitted to friends that he lied about all sorts of things on the portrait sheet as he and his parents know there is not going to be validation of anything they claim in the essays. May be this other kid is better at articulating things, but there is no way this kid should be preferred over a straight A students from the same school with demonstrable stem achievements, just based on few less than perfect lines in an essay. There are few that defend the new process to death, probably never didn't have their kids go through such unexpected rejections.

I had a friend who criticized so much about insurance companies covering for pre-existing conditions, how it gets expensive for everyone, country will break down, blah blah, but once someone in the family diagnosed with a serious medical condition, realized that it could happen to anyone. So, no one realizes until it hurts.

The old process is bad, but new process is far worse.

And you don't think that there were kids who exaggerated or lied in essays in years past? No system is going to prevent all forms of abuse. Do you think that a high percentage of kids lied in their portrait essay?

Your kid might have been rejected under the old system because there are far more applicants then there are seats. And there are a lot of kids with the high test scores and grades and STEM activities. There is no guarantee that your kid would have been accepted. You can feel free to hold on to your perceived injustice over the essay but the reality is that many kids are denied entrance. And those kids who were from under represented schools that got a spot because of the 1.5% distribution come from schools that have been disadvantaged in the application process because they don't have STEM activities after school or they couldn't afford STEM extra activities or they didn't know about them because their parents are not on top of all things STEM.

Well, it matters a lot more now because SPS and science essay carry 600 points, where GPA can only make a difference of 37.5 points (since min req is 3.5 and max is 4.0, scaled to 300). I hope you understand why essays are so critical in the new process and even some seemingly innocent typos or minor grammatical mistakes made in hurry (by less prepared) can potentially cost a lot depending on who is grading the essays and how much tolerant they are about the mistakes.

Unlike multiple choice questions, essay grading is very subjective. Forget essays, my kids school had two math teachers for geometry HN and one is known to be very strict and cuts as much as half the marks for missing a single step or symbol, while other teacher ignores these things and only focuses on whether the kids really understood the problem. I see the merits in both approaches, but if the math score determines who gets the brownie at the end, then which class would you rather be?

The bolded is a key issue. With 2500+ applications, there's no way that the same panel of two graders is handling everyone's SPS or everyone's problem solving essay. The final point totals for any applicant may be determined more by whether they had the luck of the draw and got lenient graders vs. tough graders. There's also most likely some degree of "olympic scoring," wherein the first kids reviewed end up with relatively lower scores than they rightfully deserved.

I'd prefer a lottery over the current process. It would be equally random, but at least the rejections would no longer feel quite so personal for the high achieving kids who ought to have been accepted.

I would prefer a lottery 1000 times over the current process. Whatever the outcome is, we will at least know it will be fair and not biased towards or against anyone or school in particular. Its not just mistakes, its style of writing too. When you are not looking for fixed set of points (like answers to questions in actual course work), perception of the grader matters a lot. I might like particular kids choice of words and how they are expressed compared to another. This is evident with choice of books we read too i.e., I might like one author more appealing to my taste compared to different author even in the same genre. You may be smartest person in the room, but if the person who grades does't like the way you express things, you are screwed!

When these essays carry so much weight (600 points?) even tiny differences in perception gets exaggerated quite a lot! Its a shame that grades and other extra curricular activities (even within the same school) took such a low seat compared to the essays.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids friend, who has been in AAP, couldn't get into algebra I in 7th, got few B+, A-s, got in to TJ, has wealth/educated parents, openly admitted to friends that he lied about all sorts of things on the portrait sheet as he and his parents know there is not going to be validation of anything they claim in the essays. May be this other kid is better at articulating things, but there is no way this kid should be preferred over a straight A students from the same school with demonstrable stem achievements, just based on few less than perfect lines in an essay. There are few that defend the new process to death, probably never didn't have their kids go through such unexpected rejections.

I had a friend who criticized so much about insurance companies covering for pre-existing conditions, how it gets expensive for everyone, country will break down, blah blah, but once someone in the family diagnosed with a serious medical condition, realized that it could happen to anyone. So, no one realizes until it hurts.

The old process is bad, but new process is far worse.

And you don't think that there were kids who exaggerated or lied in essays in years past? No system is going to prevent all forms of abuse. Do you think that a high percentage of kids lied in their portrait essay?

Your kid might have been rejected under the old system because there are far more applicants then there are seats. And there are a lot of kids with the high test scores and grades and STEM activities. There is no guarantee that your kid would have been accepted. You can feel free to hold on to your perceived injustice over the essay but the reality is that many kids are denied entrance. And those kids who were from under represented schools that got a spot because of the 1.5% distribution come from schools that have been disadvantaged in the application process because they don't have STEM activities after school or they couldn't afford STEM extra activities or they didn't know about them because their parents are not on top of all things STEM.

Well, it matters a lot more now because SPS and science essay carry 600 points, where GPA can only make a difference of 37.5 points (since min req is 3.5 and max is 4.0, scaled to 300). I hope you understand why essays are so critical in the new process and even some seemingly innocent typos or minor grammatical mistakes made in hurry (by less prepared) can potentially cost a lot depending on who is grading the essays and how much tolerant they are about the mistakes.

Unlike multiple choice questions, essay grading is very subjective. Forget essays, my kids school had two math teachers for geometry HN and one is known to be very strict and cuts as much as half the marks for missing a single step or symbol, while other teacher ignores these things and only focuses on whether the kids really understood the problem. I see the merits in both approaches, but if the math score determines who gets the brownie at the end, then which class would you rather be?

The bolded is a key issue. With 2500+ applications, there's no way that the same panel of two graders is handling everyone's SPS or everyone's problem solving essay. The final point totals for any applicant may be determined more by whether they had the luck of the draw and got lenient graders vs. tough graders. There's also most likely some degree of "olympic scoring," wherein the first kids reviewed end up with relatively lower scores than they rightfully deserved.

I'd prefer a lottery over the current process. It would be equally random, but at least the rejections would no longer feel quite so personal for the high achieving kids who ought to have been accepted.

I would prefer a lottery 1000 times over the current process. Whatever the outcome is, we will at least know it will be fair and not biased towards or against anyone or school in particular. Its not just mistakes, its style of writing too. When you are not looking for fixed set of points (like answers to questions in actual course work), perception of the grader matters a lot. I might like particular kids choice of words and how they are expressed compared to another. This is evident with choice of books we read too i.e., I might like one author more appealing to my taste compared to different author even in the same genre. You may be smartest person in the room, but if the person who grades does't like the way you express things, you are screwed!

When these essays carry so much weight (600 points?) even tiny differences in perception gets exaggerated quite a lot! Its a shame that grades and other extra curricular activities (even within the same school) took such a low seat compared to the essays.

This is truly a remarkable turn from the status quo crowd who previously were hell-bent on accepting anything other than the lottery.

They are making the case that now their children are feeling personally rejected by this process - but in reality, it is they as parents who are feeling rejected because they have so much personally invested in getting their kid into TJ as some sort of cultural status symbol.

Now they are claiming that TJ is somehow devalued for them because selection may not carry the same value within their community as it used to... and perhaps that's a REALLY, REALLY good thing for everyone's mental health.

But if it's still highly ranked by news outlets and that prestige is still there, get ready for the parade of sour grapes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:


Fair enough. "Decimate" probably would have been more accurate than "cap." Their intent was obvious.

For class of 2025, there were 42 fewer kids admitted from previously "well"-represented MSs than in 2024.

“Decimate”?

42 is much worse than decimate, which means reduce by 10%.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids friend, who has been in AAP, couldn't get into algebra I in 7th, got few B+, A-s, got in to TJ, has wealth/educated parents, openly admitted to friends that he lied about all sorts of things on the portrait sheet as he and his parents know there is not going to be validation of anything they claim in the essays. May be this other kid is better at articulating things, but there is no way this kid should be preferred over a straight A students from the same school with demonstrable stem achievements, just based on few less than perfect lines in an essay. There are few that defend the new process to death, probably never didn't have their kids go through such unexpected rejections.

I had a friend who criticized so much about insurance companies covering for pre-existing conditions, how it gets expensive for everyone, country will break down, blah blah, but once someone in the family diagnosed with a serious medical condition, realized that it could happen to anyone. So, no one realizes until it hurts.

The old process is bad, but new process is far worse.

And you don't think that there were kids who exaggerated or lied in essays in years past? No system is going to prevent all forms of abuse. Do you think that a high percentage of kids lied in their portrait essay?

Your kid might have been rejected under the old system because there are far more applicants then there are seats. And there are a lot of kids with the high test scores and grades and STEM activities. There is no guarantee that your kid would have been accepted. You can feel free to hold on to your perceived injustice over the essay but the reality is that many kids are denied entrance. And those kids who were from under represented schools that got a spot because of the 1.5% distribution come from schools that have been disadvantaged in the application process because they don't have STEM activities after school or they couldn't afford STEM extra activities or they didn't know about them because their parents are not on top of all things STEM.

Well, it matters a lot more now because SPS and science essay carry 600 points, where GPA can only make a difference of 37.5 points (since min req is 3.5 and max is 4.0, scaled to 300). I hope you understand why essays are so critical in the new process and even some seemingly innocent typos or minor grammatical mistakes made in hurry (by less prepared) can potentially cost a lot depending on who is grading the essays and how much tolerant they are about the mistakes.

Unlike multiple choice questions, essay grading is very subjective. Forget essays, my kids school had two math teachers for geometry HN and one is known to be very strict and cuts as much as half the marks for missing a single step or symbol, while other teacher ignores these things and only focuses on whether the kids really understood the problem. I see the merits in both approaches, but if the math score determines who gets the brownie at the end, then which class would you rather be?

The bolded is a key issue. With 2500+ applications, there's no way that the same panel of two graders is handling everyone's SPS or everyone's problem solving essay. The final point totals for any applicant may be determined more by whether they had the luck of the draw and got lenient graders vs. tough graders. There's also most likely some degree of "olympic scoring," wherein the first kids reviewed end up with relatively lower scores than they rightfully deserved.

I'd prefer a lottery over the current process. It would be equally random, but at least the rejections would no longer feel quite so personal for the high achieving kids who ought to have been accepted.

I would prefer a lottery 1000 times over the current process. Whatever the outcome is, we will at least know it will be fair and not biased towards or against anyone or school in particular. Its not just mistakes, its style of writing too. When you are not looking for fixed set of points (like answers to questions in actual course work), perception of the grader matters a lot. I might like particular kids choice of words and how they are expressed compared to another. This is evident with choice of books we read too i.e., I might like one author more appealing to my taste compared to different author even in the same genre. You may be smartest person in the room, but if the person who grades does't like the way you express things, you are screwed!

When these essays carry so much weight (600 points?) even tiny differences in perception gets exaggerated quite a lot! Its a shame that grades and other extra curricular activities (even within the same school) took such a low seat compared to the essays.

This is truly a remarkable turn from the status quo crowd who previously were hell-bent on accepting anything other than the lottery.

They are making the case that now their children are feeling personally rejected by this process - but in reality, it is they as parents who are feeling rejected because they have so much personally invested in getting their kid into TJ as some sort of cultural status symbol.

Now they are claiming that TJ is somehow devalued for them because selection may not carry the same value within their community as it used to... and perhaps that's a REALLY, REALLY good thing for everyone's mental health.

But if it's still highly ranked by news outlets and that prestige is still there, get ready for the parade of sour grapes.

PP here, just fyi - I have always been against and very vocal opponent of the new process even from the get-go last year when my kid was in the 7th grade. I even wrote several letters to school board expressing concerns over how the 'proposed' process discriminates against the AAP center schools (before any of the court cases and the point system was revealed). I attended the virtual town halls and expressed my discomfort in chats, talks etc. Of course, all my concerns were simply ignored and not received a single response to any of them from anyone. I sincerely hope you understand that I gain nothing here from complaining as my kid has pretty much made up mind that about going to base HS. Why I am still invested, well, I at least want the process be fixed for future kids.

Highly ranked, sure, but lets talk about this in few years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids friend, who has been in AAP, couldn't get into algebra I in 7th, got few B+, A-s, got in to TJ, has wealth/educated parents, openly admitted to friends that he lied about all sorts of things on the portrait sheet as he and his parents know there is not going to be validation of anything they claim in the essays. May be this other kid is better at articulating things, but there is no way this kid should be preferred over a straight A students from the same school with demonstrable stem achievements, just based on few less than perfect lines in an essay. There are few that defend the new process to death, probably never didn't have their kids go through such unexpected rejections.

I had a friend who criticized so much about insurance companies covering for pre-existing conditions, how it gets expensive for everyone, country will break down, blah blah, but once someone in the family diagnosed with a serious medical condition, realized that it could happen to anyone. So, no one realizes until it hurts.

The old process is bad, but new process is far worse.

And you don't think that there were kids who exaggerated or lied in essays in years past? No system is going to prevent all forms of abuse. Do you think that a high percentage of kids lied in their portrait essay?

Your kid might have been rejected under the old system because there are far more applicants then there are seats. And there are a lot of kids with the high test scores and grades and STEM activities. There is no guarantee that your kid would have been accepted. You can feel free to hold on to your perceived injustice over the essay but the reality is that many kids are denied entrance. And those kids who were from under represented schools that got a spot because of the 1.5% distribution come from schools that have been disadvantaged in the application process because they don't have STEM activities after school or they couldn't afford STEM extra activities or they didn't know about them because their parents are not on top of all things STEM.

Well, it matters a lot more now because SPS and science essay carry 600 points, where GPA can only make a difference of 37.5 points (since min req is 3.5 and max is 4.0, scaled to 300). I hope you understand why essays are so critical in the new process and even some seemingly innocent typos or minor grammatical mistakes made in hurry (by less prepared) can potentially cost a lot depending on who is grading the essays and how much tolerant they are about the mistakes.

Unlike multiple choice questions, essay grading is very subjective. Forget essays, my kids school had two math teachers for geometry HN and one is known to be very strict and cuts as much as half the marks for missing a single step or symbol, while other teacher ignores these things and only focuses on whether the kids really understood the problem. I see the merits in both approaches, but if the math score determines who gets the brownie at the end, then which class would you rather be?

The bolded is a key issue. With 2500+ applications, there's no way that the same panel of two graders is handling everyone's SPS or everyone's problem solving essay. The final point totals for any applicant may be determined more by whether they had the luck of the draw and got lenient graders vs. tough graders. There's also most likely some degree of "olympic scoring," wherein the first kids reviewed end up with relatively lower scores than they rightfully deserved.

I'd prefer a lottery over the current process. It would be equally random, but at least the rejections would no longer feel quite so personal for the high achieving kids who ought to have been accepted.

I would prefer a lottery 1000 times over the current process. Whatever the outcome is, we will at least know it will be fair and not biased towards or against anyone or school in particular. Its not just mistakes, its style of writing too. When you are not looking for fixed set of points (like answers to questions in actual course work), perception of the grader matters a lot. I might like particular kids choice of words and how they are expressed compared to another. This is evident with choice of books we read too i.e., I might like one author more appealing to my taste compared to different author even in the same genre. You may be smartest person in the room, but if the person who grades does't like the way you express things, you are screwed!

When these essays carry so much weight (600 points?) even tiny differences in perception gets exaggerated quite a lot! Its a shame that grades and other extra curricular activities (even within the same school) took such a low seat compared to the essays.

This is truly a remarkable turn from the status quo crowd who previously were hell-bent on accepting anything other than the lottery.

They are making the case that now their children are feeling personally rejected by this process - but in reality, it is they as parents who are feeling rejected because they have so much personally invested in getting their kid into TJ as some sort of cultural status symbol.

Now they are claiming that TJ is somehow devalued for them because selection may not carry the same value within their community as it used to... and perhaps that's a REALLY, REALLY good thing for everyone's mental health.

But if it's still highly ranked by news outlets and that prestige is still there, get ready for the parade of sour grapes.

It is going to be another five years between the rankings reflect the performance of the students admitted under the new system.

If this year is any precedent, FCPS will tout the rankings issued before then as validation of their new process, when it will be anything but.

It's also ironic that you sneeringly refer to TJ, before the admissions changes, as "some sort of cultural status symbol," when the admissions changes foisted upon families by an unpopular Superintendent and a misguided, out-of-control School Board were a blatant exercise in virtue-signaling intended to improve Scott Brabrand's tenuous standing with the School Board and enhance the status of the School Board members in their self-styled "progressive" circles.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids friend, who has been in AAP, couldn't get into algebra I in 7th, got few B+, A-s, got in to TJ, has wealth/educated parents, openly admitted to friends that he lied about all sorts of things on the portrait sheet as he and his parents know there is not going to be validation of anything they claim in the essays. May be this other kid is better at articulating things, but there is no way this kid should be preferred over a straight A students from the same school with demonstrable stem achievements, just based on few less than perfect lines in an essay. There are few that defend the new process to death, probably never didn't have their kids go through such unexpected rejections.

I had a friend who criticized so much about insurance companies covering for pre-existing conditions, how it gets expensive for everyone, country will break down, blah blah, but once someone in the family diagnosed with a serious medical condition, realized that it could happen to anyone. So, no one realizes until it hurts.

The old process is bad, but new process is far worse.

And you don't think that there were kids who exaggerated or lied in essays in years past? No system is going to prevent all forms of abuse. Do you think that a high percentage of kids lied in their portrait essay?

Your kid might have been rejected under the old system because there are far more applicants then there are seats. And there are a lot of kids with the high test scores and grades and STEM activities. There is no guarantee that your kid would have been accepted. You can feel free to hold on to your perceived injustice over the essay but the reality is that many kids are denied entrance. And those kids who were from under represented schools that got a spot because of the 1.5% distribution come from schools that have been disadvantaged in the application process because they don't have STEM activities after school or they couldn't afford STEM extra activities or they didn't know about them because their parents are not on top of all things STEM.

Well, it matters a lot more now because SPS and science essay carry 600 points, where GPA can only make a difference of 37.5 points (since min req is 3.5 and max is 4.0, scaled to 300). I hope you understand why essays are so critical in the new process and even some seemingly innocent typos or minor grammatical mistakes made in hurry (by less prepared) can potentially cost a lot depending on who is grading the essays and how much tolerant they are about the mistakes.

Unlike multiple choice questions, essay grading is very subjective. Forget essays, my kids school had two math teachers for geometry HN and one is known to be very strict and cuts as much as half the marks for missing a single step or symbol, while other teacher ignores these things and only focuses on whether the kids really understood the problem. I see the merits in both approaches, but if the math score determines who gets the brownie at the end, then which class would you rather be?

The bolded is a key issue. With 2500+ applications, there's no way that the same panel of two graders is handling everyone's SPS or everyone's problem solving essay. The final point totals for any applicant may be determined more by whether they had the luck of the draw and got lenient graders vs. tough graders. There's also most likely some degree of "olympic scoring," wherein the first kids reviewed end up with relatively lower scores than they rightfully deserved.

I'd prefer a lottery over the current process. It would be equally random, but at least the rejections would no longer feel quite so personal for the high achieving kids who ought to have been accepted.

I would prefer a lottery 1000 times over the current process. Whatever the outcome is, we will at least know it will be fair and not biased towards or against anyone or school in particular. Its not just mistakes, its style of writing too. When you are not looking for fixed set of points (like answers to questions in actual course work), perception of the grader matters a lot. I might like particular kids choice of words and how they are expressed compared to another. This is evident with choice of books we read too i.e., I might like one author more appealing to my taste compared to different author even in the same genre. You may be smartest person in the room, but if the person who grades does't like the way you express things, you are screwed!

When these essays carry so much weight (600 points?) even tiny differences in perception gets exaggerated quite a lot! Its a shame that grades and other extra curricular activities (even within the same school) took such a low seat compared to the essays.

This is truly a remarkable turn from the status quo crowd who previously were hell-bent on accepting anything other than the lottery.

They are making the case that now their children are feeling personally rejected by this process - but in reality, it is they as parents who are feeling rejected because they have so much personally invested in getting their kid into TJ as some sort of cultural status symbol.

Now they are claiming that TJ is somehow devalued for them because selection may not carry the same value within their community as it used to... and perhaps that's a REALLY, REALLY good thing for everyone's mental health.

But if it's still highly ranked by news outlets and that prestige is still there, get ready for the parade of sour grapes.

PP here, just fyi - I have always been against and very vocal opponent of the new process even from the get-go last year when my kid was in the 7th grade. I even wrote several letters to school board expressing concerns over how the 'proposed' process discriminates against the AAP center schools (before any of the court cases and the point system was revealed). I attended the virtual town halls and expressed my discomfort in chats, talks etc. Of course, all my concerns were simply ignored and not received a single response to any of them from anyone. I sincerely hope you understand that I gain nothing here from complaining as my kid has pretty much made up mind that about going to base HS. Why I am still invested, well, I at least want the process be fixed for future kids.

Highly ranked, sure, but lets talk about this in few years.

It doesn't discriminate against the AAP center schools - at least, now that the redundant "underrepresented schools" experience factor has been removed from consideration. AAP center school kids are competing for essentially the same number of seats that students from any other school are.

What the new process no longer does is discriminate as severely IN FAVOR OF AAP center schools. It now gives students who don't attend those schools a real chance in the process - and heroes in classes above them who have successfully matriculated to and attended TJ and can help them determine if it's the right fit.

Removal of an advantage is not discrimination, any more than turning an all-male school into a coed school doesn't discriminate against male students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids friend, who has been in AAP, couldn't get into algebra I in 7th, got few B+, A-s, got in to TJ, has wealth/educated parents, openly admitted to friends that he lied about all sorts of things on the portrait sheet as he and his parents know there is not going to be validation of anything they claim in the essays. May be this other kid is better at articulating things, but there is no way this kid should be preferred over a straight A students from the same school with demonstrable stem achievements, just based on few less than perfect lines in an essay. There are few that defend the new process to death, probably never didn't have their kids go through such unexpected rejections.

I had a friend who criticized so much about insurance companies covering for pre-existing conditions, how it gets expensive for everyone, country will break down, blah blah, but once someone in the family diagnosed with a serious medical condition, realized that it could happen to anyone. So, no one realizes until it hurts.

The old process is bad, but new process is far worse.

And you don't think that there were kids who exaggerated or lied in essays in years past? No system is going to prevent all forms of abuse. Do you think that a high percentage of kids lied in their portrait essay?

Your kid might have been rejected under the old system because there are far more applicants then there are seats. And there are a lot of kids with the high test scores and grades and STEM activities. There is no guarantee that your kid would have been accepted. You can feel free to hold on to your perceived injustice over the essay but the reality is that many kids are denied entrance. And those kids who were from under represented schools that got a spot because of the 1.5% distribution come from schools that have been disadvantaged in the application process because they don't have STEM activities after school or they couldn't afford STEM extra activities or they didn't know about them because their parents are not on top of all things STEM.

Well, it matters a lot more now because SPS and science essay carry 600 points, where GPA can only make a difference of 37.5 points (since min req is 3.5 and max is 4.0, scaled to 300). I hope you understand why essays are so critical in the new process and even some seemingly innocent typos or minor grammatical mistakes made in hurry (by less prepared) can potentially cost a lot depending on who is grading the essays and how much tolerant they are about the mistakes.

Unlike multiple choice questions, essay grading is very subjective. Forget essays, my kids school had two math teachers for geometry HN and one is known to be very strict and cuts as much as half the marks for missing a single step or symbol, while other teacher ignores these things and only focuses on whether the kids really understood the problem. I see the merits in both approaches, but if the math score determines who gets the brownie at the end, then which class would you rather be?

The bolded is a key issue. With 2500+ applications, there's no way that the same panel of two graders is handling everyone's SPS or everyone's problem solving essay. The final point totals for any applicant may be determined more by whether they had the luck of the draw and got lenient graders vs. tough graders. There's also most likely some degree of "olympic scoring," wherein the first kids reviewed end up with relatively lower scores than they rightfully deserved.

I'd prefer a lottery over the current process. It would be equally random, but at least the rejections would no longer feel quite so personal for the high achieving kids who ought to have been accepted.

I would prefer a lottery 1000 times over the current process. Whatever the outcome is, we will at least know it will be fair and not biased towards or against anyone or school in particular. Its not just mistakes, its style of writing too. When you are not looking for fixed set of points (like answers to questions in actual course work), perception of the grader matters a lot. I might like particular kids choice of words and how they are expressed compared to another. This is evident with choice of books we read too i.e., I might like one author more appealing to my taste compared to different author even in the same genre. You may be smartest person in the room, but if the person who grades does't like the way you express things, you are screwed!

When these essays carry so much weight (600 points?) even tiny differences in perception gets exaggerated quite a lot! Its a shame that grades and other extra curricular activities (even within the same school) took such a low seat compared to the essays.

This is truly a remarkable turn from the status quo crowd who previously were hell-bent on accepting anything other than the lottery.

They are making the case that now their children are feeling personally rejected by this process - but in reality, it is they as parents who are feeling rejected because they have so much personally invested in getting their kid into TJ as some sort of cultural status symbol.

Now they are claiming that TJ is somehow devalued for them because selection may not carry the same value within their community as it used to... and perhaps that's a REALLY, REALLY good thing for everyone's mental health.

But if it's still highly ranked by news outlets and that prestige is still there, get ready for the parade of sour grapes.

It is going to be another five years between the rankings reflect the performance of the students admitted under the new system.

If this year is any precedent, FCPS will tout the rankings issued before then as validation of their new process, when it will be anything but.

It's also ironic that you sneeringly refer to TJ, before the admissions changes, as "some sort of cultural status symbol," when the admissions changes foisted upon families by an unpopular Superintendent and a misguided, out-of-control School Board were a blatant exercise in virtue-signaling intended to improve Scott Brabrand's tenuous standing with the School Board and enhance the status of the School Board members in their self-styled "progressive" circles.

I'll take "run-on sentences" for $200, Alex. It WAS a cultural status symbol, and still is for many.

And yes - that's why I included the phrase "but if it is STILL highly ranked", implying a look toward the future.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids friend, who has been in AAP, couldn't get into algebra I in 7th, got few B+, A-s, got in to TJ, has wealth/educated parents, openly admitted to friends that he lied about all sorts of things on the portrait sheet as he and his parents know there is not going to be validation of anything they claim in the essays. May be this other kid is better at articulating things, but there is no way this kid should be preferred over a straight A students from the same school with demonstrable stem achievements, just based on few less than perfect lines in an essay. There are few that defend the new process to death, probably never didn't have their kids go through such unexpected rejections.

I had a friend who criticized so much about insurance companies covering for pre-existing conditions, how it gets expensive for everyone, country will break down, blah blah, but once someone in the family diagnosed with a serious medical condition, realized that it could happen to anyone. So, no one realizes until it hurts.

The old process is bad, but new process is far worse.

And you don't think that there were kids who exaggerated or lied in essays in years past? No system is going to prevent all forms of abuse. Do you think that a high percentage of kids lied in their portrait essay?

Your kid might have been rejected under the old system because there are far more applicants then there are seats. And there are a lot of kids with the high test scores and grades and STEM activities. There is no guarantee that your kid would have been accepted. You can feel free to hold on to your perceived injustice over the essay but the reality is that many kids are denied entrance. And those kids who were from under represented schools that got a spot because of the 1.5% distribution come from schools that have been disadvantaged in the application process because they don't have STEM activities after school or they couldn't afford STEM extra activities or they didn't know about them because their parents are not on top of all things STEM.

Well, it matters a lot more now because SPS and science essay carry 600 points, where GPA can only make a difference of 37.5 points (since min req is 3.5 and max is 4.0, scaled to 300). I hope you understand why essays are so critical in the new process and even some seemingly innocent typos or minor grammatical mistakes made in hurry (by less prepared) can potentially cost a lot depending on who is grading the essays and how much tolerant they are about the mistakes.

Unlike multiple choice questions, essay grading is very subjective. Forget essays, my kids school had two math teachers for geometry HN and one is known to be very strict and cuts as much as half the marks for missing a single step or symbol, while other teacher ignores these things and only focuses on whether the kids really understood the problem. I see the merits in both approaches, but if the math score determines who gets the brownie at the end, then which class would you rather be?

The bolded is a key issue. With 2500+ applications, there's no way that the same panel of two graders is handling everyone's SPS or everyone's problem solving essay. The final point totals for any applicant may be determined more by whether they had the luck of the draw and got lenient graders vs. tough graders. There's also most likely some degree of "olympic scoring," wherein the first kids reviewed end up with relatively lower scores than they rightfully deserved.

I'd prefer a lottery over the current process. It would be equally random, but at least the rejections would no longer feel quite so personal for the high achieving kids who ought to have been accepted.

I would prefer a lottery 1000 times over the current process. Whatever the outcome is, we will at least know it will be fair and not biased towards or against anyone or school in particular. Its not just mistakes, its style of writing too. When you are not looking for fixed set of points (like answers to questions in actual course work), perception of the grader matters a lot. I might like particular kids choice of words and how they are expressed compared to another. This is evident with choice of books we read too i.e., I might like one author more appealing to my taste compared to different author even in the same genre. You may be smartest person in the room, but if the person who grades does't like the way you express things, you are screwed!

When these essays carry so much weight (600 points?) even tiny differences in perception gets exaggerated quite a lot! Its a shame that grades and other extra curricular activities (even within the same school) took such a low seat compared to the essays.

This is truly a remarkable turn from the status quo crowd who previously were hell-bent on accepting anything other than the lottery.

They are making the case that now their children are feeling personally rejected by this process - but in reality, it is they as parents who are feeling rejected because they have so much personally invested in getting their kid into TJ as some sort of cultural status symbol.

Now they are claiming that TJ is somehow devalued for them because selection may not carry the same value within their community as it used to... and perhaps that's a REALLY, REALLY good thing for everyone's mental health.

But if it's still highly ranked by news outlets and that prestige is still there, get ready for the parade of sour grapes.

PP here, just fyi - I have always been against and very vocal opponent of the new process even from the get-go last year when my kid was in the 7th grade. I even wrote several letters to school board expressing concerns over how the 'proposed' process discriminates against the AAP center schools (before any of the court cases and the point system was revealed). I attended the virtual town halls and expressed my discomfort in chats, talks etc. Of course, all my concerns were simply ignored and not received a single response to any of them from anyone. I sincerely hope you understand that I gain nothing here from complaining as my kid has pretty much made up mind that about going to base HS. Why I am still invested, well, I at least want the process be fixed for future kids.

Highly ranked, sure, but lets talk about this in few years.

It doesn't discriminate against the AAP center schools - at least, now that the redundant "underrepresented schools" experience factor has been removed from consideration. AAP center school kids are competing for essentially the same number of seats that students from any other school are.

What the new process no longer does is discriminate as severely IN FAVOR OF AAP center schools. It now gives students who don't attend those schools a real chance in the process - and heroes in classes above them who have successfully matriculated to and attended TJ and can help them determine if it's the right fit.

Removal of an advantage is not discrimination, any more than turning an all-male school into a coed school doesn't discriminate against male students.

This is blatantly misleading. If it's what the defenders of the admissions change think passes as sound logic, better to just shut down TJHSST and return TJ to use as another base school.