Fourth Grade DD -- how to instill gratitude and tone down sass/back talk

[Anonymous]

So we spend weekend running to sport game for kids, take them to a family party of their best friends Saturday night, take her to the toy store , but at night she is fighting with her sister. After asking her to be nice, or we own benefit with friends, I express exacerbation that she doesn't appreciate how much we do for her, and her response is 'well I didn't ask to go to the toy store ' (which is technically true as I was running an errand there, but she had fun and went home with some free knick knack)

She is crazy stubborn, probably highly sensitive (so is always ruminating, hangs back on new social situations), and generally a hard working kid.

But we feel she is really lacking in gratitude for what she does have (and maybe we aren't best models - I can definitely get frustrated as working parents always living in a little chaos short of enough cash), but more importantly we need to quash this back talk/sass and maybe tone down stubbornness

Is this part of being 10? Tween attitude? Or are we doing something wrong?

[Anonymous]

"No." Try it sometime.

[Anonymous]

Separate issues.

[Anonymous]

I agree with saying "no" a lot more often.

Maybe spending the weekend "running to sport game for kids" is leading to crankiness? Kids need downtime just like adults do. Why not cut back on over-scheduling every weekend and teach your children how to hang out, and relax? There's joy in not having to be anywhere on a weekend. Your daughter might be trying to tell you she's over-scheduled.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So we spend weekend running to sport game for kids, take them to a family party of their best friends Saturday night, take her to the toy store , but at night she is fighting with her sister. After asking her to be nice, or we own benefit with friends, I express exacerbation that she doesn't appreciate how much we do for her, and her response is 'well I didn't ask to go to the toy store ' (which is technically true as I was running an errand there, but she had fun and went home with some free knick knack)

She is crazy stubborn, probably highly sensitive (so is always ruminating, hangs back on new social situations), and generally a hard working kid.

But we feel she is really lacking in gratitude for what she does have (and maybe we aren't best models - I can definitely get frustrated as working parents always living in a little chaos short of enough cash), but more importantly we need to quash this back talk/sass and maybe tone down stubbornness

Is this part of being 10? Tween attitude? Or are we doing something wrong?

My son is 10 and going into 5th. We're seeing more drama and statements like the one you mentioned. Honestly, I am ignoring it and waiting later for a calm moment to discuss. Kids are still developing empathy and impulse control- it can cause them to say some crummy stuff to their parents. While it's not acceptable, demanding empathy "in the moment" is likely to produce even less empathy. Waiting until they have a chance to reflect may be more productive.
When words become blatantly disrespectful (e.g. mean stuff directed at you), then you can simply say "I don't like it when people talk to me that way, and I don't go out of my way for people who are disrespectful. We won't be doing (whatever fun thing is planned) if it continues." Then follow through. That is "real world" talk and action. You're teaching her how you expect to be treated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So we spend weekend running to sport game for kids, take them to a family party of their best friends Saturday night, take her to the toy store , but at night she is fighting with her sister. After asking her to be nice, or we own benefit with friends, I express exacerbation that she doesn't appreciate how much we do for her, and her response is 'well I didn't ask to go to the toy store ' (which is technically true as I was running an errand there, but she had fun and went home with some free knick knack)

She is crazy stubborn, probably highly sensitive (so is always ruminating, hangs back on new social situations), and generally a hard working kid.

But we feel she is really lacking in gratitude for what she does have (and maybe we aren't best models - I can definitely get frustrated as working parents always living in a little chaos short of enough cash), but more importantly we need to quash this back talk/sass and maybe tone down stubbornness

Is this part of being 10? Tween attitude? Or are we doing something wrong?

Are you posting this because of what happened yesterday? Or is this an example of a larger pattern? If it's the former, I'd relax and just keep an eye on it. If it's the latter, please give some more examples of "sass/back talk" and how she is expressing a "lack in gratitude."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I agree with saying "no" a lot more often.

Maybe spending the weekend "running to sport game for kids" is leading to crankiness? Kids need downtime just like adults do. Why not cut back on over-scheduling every weekend and teach your children how to hang out, and relax? There's joy in not having to be anywhere on a weekend. Your daughter might be trying to tell you she's over-scheduled.

We say no quite a bit. She have 4 days a week of no activities and we just come home. Most weekends are just 1 sports game and then doing chores at home. This party was pretty extraordinary, but we have felt she takes things for granted for a while now.

We say no to sleepovers, we don't allow play dates on school, we enforce math reading and music practice everyday. Compared to other parents we live a pretty circumscribed life for our kids (if anything we worry she feels left out from her 4th grade social circle because we say no so much)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So we spend weekend running to sport game for kids, take them to a family party of their best friends Saturday night, take her to the toy store , but at night she is fighting with her sister. After asking her to be nice, or we own benefit with friends, I express exacerbation that she doesn't appreciate how much we do for her, and her response is 'well I didn't ask to go to the toy store ' (which is technically true as I was running an errand there, but she had fun and went home with some free knick knack)

She is crazy stubborn, probably highly sensitive (so is always ruminating, hangs back on new social situations), and generally a hard working kid.

But we feel she is really lacking in gratitude for what she does have (and maybe we aren't best models - I can definitely get frustrated as working parents always living in a little chaos short of enough cash), but more importantly we need to quash this back talk/sass and maybe tone down stubbornness

Is this part of being 10? Tween attitude? Or are we doing something wrong?

My son is 10 and going into 5th. We're seeing more drama and statements like the one you mentioned. Honestly, I am ignoring it and waiting later for a calm moment to discuss. Kids are still developing empathy and impulse control- it can cause them to say some crummy stuff to their parents. While it's not acceptable, demanding empathy "in the moment" is likely to produce even less empathy. Waiting until they have a chance to reflect may be more productive.
When words become blatantly disrespectful (e.g. mean stuff directed at you), then you can simply say "I don't like it when people talk to me that way, and I don't go out of my way for people who are disrespectful. We won't be doing (whatever fun thing is planned) if it continues." Then follow through. That is "real world" talk and action. You're teaching her how you expect to be treated.

That is exactly what we did. Tried to let her sleep on it but no better this morning, and cancelled a bunch of Fun outings planned. This had been part of a larger pattern of 'smart talk'. Hard to think of examples but it's not outright mean, but things like telling her sister she was it part of the conversation or weaseling out of something by following letter not spirit. I hate having to patrol my words to not leave loophole, and we already limit them so much we will end up home every night and weekend punishing them.

[Anonymous]

Broaden her experience. Volunteer for a charity as a family -- go and help out in person. Let her see more of the world.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So we spend weekend running to sport game for kids, take them to a family party of their best friends Saturday night, take her to the toy store , but at night she is fighting with her sister. After asking her to be nice, or we own benefit with friends, I express exacerbation that she doesn't appreciate how much we do for her, and her response is 'well I didn't ask to go to the toy store ' (which is technically true as I was running an errand there, but she had fun and went home with some free knick knack)

She is crazy stubborn, probably highly sensitive (so is always ruminating, hangs back on new social situations), and generally a hard working kid.

But we feel she is really lacking in gratitude for what she does have (and maybe we aren't best models - I can definitely get frustrated as working parents always living in a little chaos short of enough cash), but more importantly we need to quash this back talk/sass and maybe tone down stubbornness

Is this part of being 10? Tween attitude? Or are we doing something wrong?

I think you should think about what kind of relationship you want with your child. I don't see her comment as being 'sassy' per say and I don't think it means she doesn't appreciate anything. She was just telling you her viewpoint which you admit is true (she didn't ask to go to the toy store) Perhaps you were all tired from running around and that you were both "out of sorts?" The thing is kids don't think of what parents do for them. They are very center focused and see this as normal. I would suggest not doing so much so you don't get frazzled and I would start modeling the behavior you want in your DD. Thank you them for picking up their shoes or your DH for cooking ( just examples)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So we spend weekend running to sport game for kids, take them to a family party of their best friends Saturday night, take her to the toy store , but at night she is fighting with her sister. After asking her to be nice, or we own benefit with friends, I express exacerbation that she doesn't appreciate how much we do for her, and her response is 'well I didn't ask to go to the toy store ' (which is technically true as I was running an errand there, but she had fun and went home with some free knick knack)

She is crazy stubborn, probably highly sensitive (so is always ruminating, hangs back on new social situations), and generally a hard working kid.

But we feel she is really lacking in gratitude for what she does have (and maybe we aren't best models - I can definitely get frustrated as working parents always living in a little chaos short of enough cash), but more importantly we need to quash this back talk/sass and maybe tone down stubbornness

Is this part of being 10? Tween attitude? Or are we doing something wrong?

My son is 10 and going into 5th. We're seeing more drama and statements like the one you mentioned. Honestly, I am ignoring it and waiting later for a calm moment to discuss. Kids are still developing empathy and impulse control- it can cause them to say some crummy stuff to their parents. While it's not acceptable, demanding empathy "in the moment" is likely to produce even less empathy. Waiting until they have a chance to reflect may be more productive.
When words become blatantly disrespectful (e.g. mean stuff directed at you), then you can simply say "I don't like it when people talk to me that way, and I don't go out of my way for people who are disrespectful. We won't be doing (whatever fun thing is planned) if it continues." Then follow through. That is "real world" talk and action. You're teaching her how you expect to be treated.

pp here- for what it's worth, I don't think the issue is saying "no." I think this stage is developmentally normal for many kids. My son just came into our room and caused a lot of drama over some work that he doesn't want to complete today- we too, are on the strict side. What I did was work with the Ross Greene method to collaborate- I gave DS more choices within parameters of when/how to complete his work. It diffused the situation because he feels like he has more independence- which is starting to become the core issue as these kids get older. The fact that your daughter is little anxious and inflexible makes Ross Greene's book quite timely. Of course the kids he references have more severe issues, but the methods are universal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So we spend weekend running to sport game for kids, take them to a family party of their best friends Saturday night, take her to the toy store , but at night she is fighting with her sister. After asking her to be nice, or we own benefit with friends, I express exacerbation that she doesn't appreciate how much we do for her, and her response is 'well I didn't ask to go to the toy store ' (which is technically true as I was running an errand there, but she had fun and went home with some free knick knack)

She is crazy stubborn, probably highly sensitive (so is always ruminating, hangs back on new social situations), and generally a hard working kid.

But we feel she is really lacking in gratitude for what she does have (and maybe we aren't best models - I can definitely get frustrated as working parents always living in a little chaos short of enough cash), but more importantly we need to quash this back talk/sass and maybe tone down stubbornness

Is this part of being 10? Tween attitude? Or are we doing something wrong?

My son is 10 and going into 5th. We're seeing more drama and statements like the one you mentioned. Honestly, I am ignoring it and waiting later for a calm moment to discuss. Kids are still developing empathy and impulse control- it can cause them to say some crummy stuff to their parents. While it's not acceptable, demanding empathy "in the moment" is likely to produce even less empathy. Waiting until they have a chance to reflect may be more productive.
When words become blatantly disrespectful (e.g. mean stuff directed at you), then you can simply say "I don't like it when people talk to me that way, and I don't go out of my way for people who are disrespectful. We won't be doing (whatever fun thing is planned) if it continues." Then follow through. That is "real world" talk and action. You're teaching her how you expect to be treated.

pp here again- yes, it can get quite punitive. When the disrespect gets out of control, maybe you can focus on one or two areas that are of greatest concern? For instance, if your DD is calling people names, using profanity (actual real profanity), or saying "I hate you" that is a much bigger deal than "tone" or sass. Start with the behavior that is the worst and address only that. My DS has ADHD and some issues reading social cues (we *really* deal with some major disrespect sometimes)-- we absolutely have to prioritize. Work on one, maybe two, issues at a time depending on the seriousness. If punitive is not working, then move to a reward system (earned rewards for behavior you like to see)- it seems juvenile, but some kids may need to revert back to this system as the hormones hit.

That is exactly what we did. Tried to let her sleep on it but no better this morning, and cancelled a bunch of Fun outings planned. This had been part of a larger pattern of 'smart talk'. Hard to think of examples but it's not outright mean, but things like telling her sister she was it part of the conversation or weaseling out of something by following letter not spirit. I hate having to patrol my words to not leave loophole, and we already limit them so much we will end up home every night and weekend punishing them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So we spend weekend running to sport game for kids, take them to a family party of their best friends Saturday night, take her to the toy store , but at night she is fighting with her sister. After asking her to be nice, or we own benefit with friends, I express exacerbation that she doesn't appreciate how much we do for her, and her response is 'well I didn't ask to go to the toy store ' (which is technically true as I was running an errand there, but she had fun and went home with some free knick knack)

She is crazy stubborn, probably highly sensitive (so is always ruminating, hangs back on new social situations), and generally a hard working kid.

But we feel she is really lacking in gratitude for what she does have (and maybe we aren't best models - I can definitely get frustrated as working parents always living in a little chaos short of enough cash), but more importantly we need to quash this back talk/sass and maybe tone down stubbornness

Is this part of being 10? Tween attitude? Or are we doing something wrong?

My son is 10 and going into 5th. We're seeing more drama and statements like the one you mentioned. Honestly, I am ignoring it and waiting later for a calm moment to discuss. Kids are still developing empathy and impulse control- it can cause them to say some crummy stuff to their parents. While it's not acceptable, demanding empathy "in the moment" is likely to produce even less empathy. Waiting until they have a chance to reflect may be more productive.
When words become blatantly disrespectful (e.g. mean stuff directed at you), then you can simply say "I don't like it when people talk to me that way, and I don't go out of my way for people who are disrespectful. We won't be doing (whatever fun thing is planned) if it continues." Then follow through. That is "real world" talk and action. You're teaching her how you expect to be treated.

pp here again- yes, it can get quite punitive. When the disrespect gets out of control, maybe you can focus on one or two areas that are of greatest concern? For instance, if your DD is calling people names, using profanity (actual real profanity), or saying "I hate you" that is a much bigger deal than "tone" or sass. Start with the behavior that is the worst and address only that. My DS has ADHD and some issues reading social cues (we *really* deal with some major disrespect sometimes)-- we absolutely have to prioritize. Work on one, maybe two, issues at a time depending on the seriousness. If punitive is not working, then move to a reward system (earned rewards for behavior you like to see)- it seems juvenile, but some kids may need to revert back to this system as the hormones hit.

That is exactly what we did. Tried to let her sleep on it but no better this morning, and cancelled a bunch of Fun outings planned. This had been part of a larger pattern of 'smart talk'. Hard to think of examples but it's not outright mean, but things like telling her sister she was it part of the conversation or weaseling out of something by following letter not spirit. I hate having to patrol my words to not leave loophole, and we already limit them so much we will end up home every night and weekend punishing them.

apologies for embedding my response- I missed the quote at the end.

[Anonymous]

Sorry OP - It sounds like your daughter is fairly ordinary. It
sounds like you really don't understand kids her age.

Model gratitude, and you might start to see it.

Expect some sass and imperfection. Don't make a nick nack at the toy store more important than it really is (you shouldn't have bought it). I know that it was always really hard for my kid to do errands after an athletic game. He was tired, and hungry dehydrated, and uncomfortable after giving his all on the field.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sorry OP - It sounds like your daughter is fairly ordinary. It
sounds like you really don't understand kids her age.

Model gratitude, and you might start to see it.

Expect some sass and imperfection. Don't make a nick nack at the toy store more important than it really is (you shouldn't have bought it). I know that it was always really hard for my kid to do errands after an athletic game. He was tired, and hungry dehydrated, and uncomfortable after giving his all on the field.

That's what we are wondering if it is just part of her development. Hah, yeah we didn't buy anything they were handing out as promotions. Toys are for birthdays and Christmas!

As for modelin gratitude, we are very gracious to each other (we thank each other for who make dinner, and thank kids for putting away dishes or shoes or chores), though I thin we might sometimes grouse about work or some problem with the house or car.