Biden strikes out with King Manchin

[Anonymous]

^ It would be like us somehow getting a republican elected in DC. You really think we’d be complaining if they ‘only’ voted with us on most issues and not every single one??

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:With Manchin, we've been nice, we've been patient, we've held our punches back for a very very long time. But all he did is act in bad faith and screw everyone over. So why should we still be nice?
Republicans would have thrown him under the bus and called him a RINO long ago if he did to them what he did to us.

No, you've been obnoxious just like the petulant progressives have. The Democrats really, really need to rein in the progressive wing and their demands if they want to get anything done in the next 11 months. If they don't, they are going to have one of the worst mid-term whitewashings in most of our lifetimes. It's already looking bad for the Democrats and they keep mismanaging things to make them worse and worse.

Manchin initially said he wanted a package under $1.5T, preferably closer to $1T. He negotiated in good faith and came back up to $1.8T including almost all of the package that was in the $1.9T package that the liberals wanted. The only thing he wanted was to axe the child tax credit, essentially giving money just for having children. He wanted to add a work requirement that the only people eligible for this would be those who were actually working, plus means testing so that only those making less than $200K HHI would qualify. So that those who were well above the 75th percentile nationwide were not going to be getting payouts when they didn't need them.

He was willing to compromise and instead of getting a good faith negotiation from Biden's team, some snotty WH staffer decided to try and bully Manchin and browbeat him into toeing the line. Biden needs to get his team under control because being so arrogant that you kill a negotiations is not the way to handle things when you have the absolute minimum possible majority in one chamber and only slightly more than bare minimum majority in the other chamber. Biden needs to bench whoever blew the negotiations and replace them and go back after the holidays and try and woo Manchin back, more politely this time.

You know absolutely nothing except how to bloviate. Blame the republicans and play-acting Dems like Manchin.

November 2022

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:With Manchin, we've been nice, we've been patient, we've held our punches back for a very very long time. But all he did is act in bad faith and screw everyone over. So why should we still be nice?
Republicans would have thrown him under the bus and called him a RINO long ago if he did to them what he did to us.

No, you've been obnoxious just like the petulant progressives have. The Democrats really, really need to rein in the progressive wing and their demands if they want to get anything done in the next 11 months. If they don't, they are going to have one of the worst mid-term whitewashings in most of our lifetimes. It's already looking bad for the Democrats and they keep mismanaging things to make them worse and worse.

Manchin initially said he wanted a package under $1.5T, preferably closer to $1T. He negotiated in good faith and came back up to $1.8T including almost all of the package that was in the $1.9T package that the liberals wanted. The only thing he wanted was to axe the child tax credit, essentially giving money just for having children. He wanted to add a work requirement that the only people eligible for this would be those who were actually working, plus means testing so that only those making less than $200K HHI would qualify. So that those who were well above the 75th percentile nationwide were not going to be getting payouts when they didn't need them.

He was willing to compromise and instead of getting a good faith negotiation from Biden's team, some snotty WH staffer decided to try and bully Manchin and browbeat him into toeing the line. Biden needs to get his team under control because being so arrogant that you kill a negotiations is not the way to handle things when you have the absolute minimum possible majority in one chamber and only slightly more than bare minimum majority in the other chamber. Biden needs to bench whoever blew the negotiations and replace them and go back after the holidays and try and woo Manchin back, more politely this time.

What total bs. Manchin just wanted to screw Biden and become a Fox News hero.

You're not listening...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:With Manchin, we've been nice, we've been patient, we've held our punches back for a very very long time. But all he did is act in bad faith and screw everyone over. So why should we still be nice?
Republicans would have thrown him under the bus and called him a RINO long ago if he did to them what he did to us.

No, you've been obnoxious just like the petulant progressives have. The Democrats really, really need to rein in the progressive wing and their demands if they want to get anything done in the next 11 months. If they don't, they are going to have one of the worst mid-term whitewashings in most of our lifetimes. It's already looking bad for the Democrats and they keep mismanaging things to make them worse and worse.

Manchin initially said he wanted a package under $1.5T, preferably closer to $1T. He negotiated in good faith and came back up to $1.8T including almost all of the package that was in the $1.9T package that the liberals wanted. The only thing he wanted was to axe the child tax credit, essentially giving money just for having children. He wanted to add a work requirement that the only people eligible for this would be those who were actually working, plus means testing so that only those making less than $200K HHI would qualify. So that those who were well above the 75th percentile nationwide were not going to be getting payouts when they didn't need them.

He was willing to compromise and instead of getting a good faith negotiation from Biden's team, some snotty WH staffer decided to try and bully Manchin and browbeat him into toeing the line. Biden needs to get his team under control because being so arrogant that you kill a negotiations is not the way to handle things when you have the absolute minimum possible majority in one chamber and only slightly more than bare minimum majority in the other chamber. Biden needs to bench whoever blew the negotiations and replace them and go back after the holidays and try and woo Manchin back, more politely this time.

You know absolutely nothing except how to bloviate. Blame the republicans and play-acting Dems like Manchin.

PP explained to you why it came to this. Pretty accurate and to the point.
I don't really give a damn if you don't wish to listen or understand. In fact, the more you folks whine about "Manchin!" the greater the Republican majority will become in 2022.
So, keep whining.

[Anonymous]

https://www.businessinsider.com/joe-manchin-build-back-better-costs-economic-growth-goldman-sachs-2021-12?r=US&IR=T

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:https://www.businessinsider.com/joe-manchin-build-back-better-costs-economic-growth-goldman-sachs-2021-12?r=US&IR=T

He just cost the economy a projected $60B with his little hissy fit. No wonder he is back at the table.

[Anonymous]

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:With Manchin, we've been nice, we've been patient, we've held our punches back for a very very long time. But all he did is act in bad faith and screw everyone over. So why should we still be nice?
Republicans would have thrown him under the bus and called him a RINO long ago if he did to them what he did to us.

No, you've been obnoxious just like the petulant progressives have. The Democrats really, really need to rein in the progressive wing and their demands if they want to get anything done in the next 11 months. If they don't, they are going to have one of the worst mid-term whitewashings in most of our lifetimes. It's already looking bad for the Democrats and they keep mismanaging things to make them worse and worse.

Manchin initially said he wanted a package under $1.5T, preferably closer to $1T. He negotiated in good faith and came back up to $1.8T including almost all of the package that was in the $1.9T package that the liberals wanted. The only thing he wanted was to axe the child tax credit, essentially giving money just for having children. He wanted to add a work requirement that the only people eligible for this would be those who were actually working, plus means testing so that only those making less than $200K HHI would qualify. So that those who were well above the 75th percentile nationwide were not going to be getting payouts when they didn't need them.

He was willing to compromise and instead of getting a good faith negotiation from Biden's team, some snotty WH staffer decided to try and bully Manchin and browbeat him into toeing the line. Biden needs to get his team under control because being so arrogant that you kill a negotiations is not the way to handle things when you have the absolute minimum possible majority in one chamber and only slightly more than bare minimum majority in the other chamber. Biden needs to bench whoever blew the negotiations and replace them and go back after the holidays and try and woo Manchin back, more politely this time.

You know absolutely nothing except how to bloviate. Blame the republicans and play-acting Dems like Manchin.

PP explained to you why it came to this. Pretty accurate and to the point.
I don't really give a damn if you don't wish to listen or understand. In fact, the more you folks whine about "Manchin!" the greater the Republican majority will become in 2022.
So, keep whining.

Lol. He represents a tiny state. His views are completely out of step with the Party and most Americans. He’s defying the leader of the Party. He should be continuously called out loudly and forcefully for his bad form. No more kid gloves.
You’re such a baby.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:With Manchin, we've been nice, we've been patient, we've held our punches back for a very very long time. But all he did is act in bad faith and screw everyone over. So why should we still be nice?
Republicans would have thrown him under the bus and called him a RINO long ago if he did to them what he did to us.

No, you've been obnoxious just like the petulant progressives have. The Democrats really, really need to rein in the progressive wing and their demands if they want to get anything done in the next 11 months. If they don't, they are going to have one of the worst mid-term whitewashings in most of our lifetimes. It's already looking bad for the Democrats and they keep mismanaging things to make them worse and worse.

Manchin initially said he wanted a package under $1.5T, preferably closer to $1T. He negotiated in good faith and came back up to $1.8T including almost all of the package that was in the $1.9T package that the liberals wanted. The only thing he wanted was to axe the child tax credit, essentially giving money just for having children. He wanted to add a work requirement that the only people eligible for this would be those who were actually working, plus means testing so that only those making less than $200K HHI would qualify. So that those who were well above the 75th percentile nationwide were not going to be getting payouts when they didn't need them.

He was willing to compromise and instead of getting a good faith negotiation from Biden's team, some snotty WH staffer decided to try and bully Manchin and browbeat him into toeing the line. Biden needs to get his team under control because being so arrogant that you kill a negotiations is not the way to handle things when you have the absolute minimum possible majority in one chamber and only slightly more than bare minimum majority in the other chamber. Biden needs to bench whoever blew the negotiations and replace them and go back after the holidays and try and woo Manchin back, more politely this time.

You know absolutely nothing except how to bloviate. Blame the republicans and play-acting Dems like Manchin.

PP explained to you why it came to this. Pretty accurate and to the point.
I don't really give a damn if you don't wish to listen or understand. In fact, the more you folks whine about "Manchin!" the greater the Republican majority will become in 2022.
So, keep whining.

Lol. He represents a tiny state. His views are completely out of step with the Party and most Americans. He’s defying the leader of the Party. He should be continuously called out loudly and forcefully for his bad form. No more kid gloves.
You’re such a baby.

you must be a troll.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:With Manchin, we've been nice, we've been patient, we've held our punches back for a very very long time. But all he did is act in bad faith and screw everyone over. So why should we still be nice?
Republicans would have thrown him under the bus and called him a RINO long ago if he did to them what he did to us.

No, you've been obnoxious just like the petulant progressives have. The Democrats really, really need to rein in the progressive wing and their demands if they want to get anything done in the next 11 months. If they don't, they are going to have one of the worst mid-term whitewashings in most of our lifetimes. It's already looking bad for the Democrats and they keep mismanaging things to make them worse and worse.

Manchin initially said he wanted a package under $1.5T, preferably closer to $1T. He negotiated in good faith and came back up to $1.8T including almost all of the package that was in the $1.9T package that the liberals wanted. The only thing he wanted was to axe the child tax credit, essentially giving money just for having children. He wanted to add a work requirement that the only people eligible for this would be those who were actually working, plus means testing so that only those making less than $200K HHI would qualify. So that those who were well above the 75th percentile nationwide were not going to be getting payouts when they didn't need them.

He was willing to compromise and instead of getting a good faith negotiation from Biden's team, some snotty WH staffer decided to try and bully Manchin and browbeat him into toeing the line. Biden needs to get his team under control because being so arrogant that you kill a negotiations is not the way to handle things when you have the absolute minimum possible majority in one chamber and only slightly more than bare minimum majority in the other chamber. Biden needs to bench whoever blew the negotiations and replace them and go back after the holidays and try and woo Manchin back, more politely this time.

You know absolutely nothing except how to bloviate. Blame the republicans and play-acting Dems like Manchin.

PP explained to you why it came to this. Pretty accurate and to the point.
I don't really give a damn if you don't wish to listen or understand. In fact, the more you folks whine about "Manchin!" the greater the Republican majority will become in 2022.
So, keep whining.

Lol. He represents a tiny state. His views are completely out of step with the Party and most Americans. He’s defying the leader of the Party. He should be continuously called out loudly and forcefully for his bad form. No more kid gloves.
You’re such a baby.

Actually he is closer to the average voter than DCUM

If democrats won elections they could pass their bills.

Instead they focused on giving handouts to the rich.

No real democrat should vote for a bill that has the second most costly piece being pork given to rich homeowners, at the expense of the US middle class.

This is NOT a bill for Democrats, it is a bill for rich coastal elites.

Fact

The rich are poised to gain more from the SALT cap increase than lower-income people are from other elements of the bill, such as the child tax credit. According to the CRFB, a household in D.C. making $1 million a year would benefit 10 times as much as the SALT cap as a middle-class household would from extending the increased child tax credit for one year,an extra $1,600 for children under 6 and an extra $1,000 for older children.

“We’re debating about whether to give lower- and middle-class families a thousand dollars more a year through the child tax credit, while giving upper-class families $10,000 or more through SALT,” said Marc Goldwein, senior policy director at the CRFB. “That’s counter to everything the Democrats have been saying Build Back Better is about and everything they said about the Trump tax cuts.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:With Manchin, we've been nice, we've been patient, we've held our punches back for a very very long time. But all he did is act in bad faith and screw everyone over. So why should we still be nice?
Republicans would have thrown him under the bus and called him a RINO long ago if he did to them what he did to us.

No, you've been obnoxious just like the petulant progressives have. The Democrats really, really need to rein in the progressive wing and their demands if they want to get anything done in the next 11 months. If they don't, they are going to have one of the worst mid-term whitewashings in most of our lifetimes. It's already looking bad for the Democrats and they keep mismanaging things to make them worse and worse.

Manchin initially said he wanted a package under $1.5T, preferably closer to $1T. He negotiated in good faith and came back up to $1.8T including almost all of the package that was in the $1.9T package that the liberals wanted. The only thing he wanted was to axe the child tax credit, essentially giving money just for having children. He wanted to add a work requirement that the only people eligible for this would be those who were actually working, plus means testing so that only those making less than $200K HHI would qualify. So that those who were well above the 75th percentile nationwide were not going to be getting payouts when they didn't need them.

He was willing to compromise and instead of getting a good faith negotiation from Biden's team, some snotty WH staffer decided to try and bully Manchin and browbeat him into toeing the line. Biden needs to get his team under control because being so arrogant that you kill a negotiations is not the way to handle things when you have the absolute minimum possible majority in one chamber and only slightly more than bare minimum majority in the other chamber. Biden needs to bench whoever blew the negotiations and replace them and go back after the holidays and try and woo Manchin back, more politely this time.

You know absolutely nothing except how to bloviate. Blame the republicans and play-acting Dems like Manchin.

PP explained to you why it came to this. Pretty accurate and to the point.
I don't really give a damn if you don't wish to listen or understand. In fact, the more you folks whine about "Manchin!" the greater the Republican majority will become in 2022.
So, keep whining.

Lol. He represents a tiny state. His views are completely out of step with the Party and most Americans. He’s defying the leader of the Party. He should be continuously called out loudly and forcefully for his bad form. No more kid gloves.
You’re such a baby.

Actually he is closer to the average voter than DCUM

If democrats won elections they could pass their bills.

Instead they focused on giving handouts to the rich.

No real democrat should vote for a bill that has the second most costly piece being pork given to rich homeowners, at the expense of the US middle class.

This is NOT a bill for Democrats, it is a bill for rich coastal elites.

Fact

The rich are poised to gain more from the SALT cap increase than lower-income people are from other elements of the bill, such as the child tax credit. According to the CRFB, a household in D.C. making $1 million a year would benefit 10 times as much as the SALT cap as a middle-class household would from extending the increased child tax credit for one year,an extra $1,600 for children under 6 and an extra $1,000 for older children.

“We’re debating about whether to give lower- and middle-class families a thousand dollars more a year through the child tax credit, while giving upper-class families $10,000 or more through SALT,” said Marc Goldwein, senior policy director at the CRFB. “That’s counter to everything the Democrats have been saying Build Back Better is about and everything they said about the Trump tax cuts.”

I agree with you that increasing the SALT cap is garbage politics and welfare for the wealthy (who need to pay more taxes imo).

[Anonymous]

I really REALLY realllllly want to know what that idiot White House staffer said to Manchin and who it was. They really insulted him and apparently West Virginia does not forgive insults lightly.

Manchin said publicly this week that he was no longer involved in talks with the White House over the economic package. Privately, he has also made clear that he is not interested in approving legislation resembling Biden’s Build Back Better package and that Democrats should fundamentally rethink their approach.

Senior Democrats say they do not believe Manchin would support his offer even if the White House tried adopting it in full — at least not at the moment — following the fallout in mid-December. The people spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss private conversations.

[Anonymous]

It had to be a senior staffer. Couldn't be a junior who 'put things out' and still have a job come Monday.

So Ron Klain - White House Chief of Staff? Or Jen Psaki - White House Press Secretary? One of the Senior Advisors? None of them are as vocal as the other two...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:With Manchin, we've been nice, we've been patient, we've held our punches back for a very very long time. But all he did is act in bad faith and screw everyone over. So why should we still be nice?
Republicans would have thrown him under the bus and called him a RINO long ago if he did to them what he did to us.

No, you've been obnoxious just like the petulant progressives have. The Democrats really, really need to rein in the progressive wing and their demands if they want to get anything done in the next 11 months. If they don't, they are going to have one of the worst mid-term whitewashings in most of our lifetimes. It's already looking bad for the Democrats and they keep mismanaging things to make them worse and worse.

Manchin initially said he wanted a package under $1.5T, preferably closer to $1T. He negotiated in good faith and came back up to $1.8T including almost all of the package that was in the $1.9T package that the liberals wanted. The only thing he wanted was to axe the child tax credit, essentially giving money just for having children. He wanted to add a work requirement that the only people eligible for this would be those who were actually working, plus means testing so that only those making less than $200K HHI would qualify. So that those who were well above the 75th percentile nationwide were not going to be getting payouts when they didn't need them.

He was willing to compromise and instead of getting a good faith negotiation from Biden's team, some snotty WH staffer decided to try and bully Manchin and browbeat him into toeing the line. Biden needs to get his team under control because being so arrogant that you kill a negotiations is not the way to handle things when you have the absolute minimum possible majority in one chamber and only slightly more than bare minimum majority in the other chamber. Biden needs to bench whoever blew the negotiations and replace them and go back after the holidays and try and woo Manchin back, more politely this time.

You know absolutely nothing except how to bloviate. Blame the republicans and play-acting Dems like Manchin.

PP explained to you why it came to this. Pretty accurate and to the point.
I don't really give a damn if you don't wish to listen or understand. In fact, the more you folks whine about "Manchin!" the greater the Republican majority will become in 2022.
So, keep whining.

Lol. He represents a tiny state. His views are completely out of step with the Party and most Americans. He’s defying the leader of the Party. He should be continuously called out loudly and forcefully for his bad form. No more kid gloves.
You’re such a baby.

Actually he is closer to the average voter than DCUM

If democrats won elections they could pass their bills.

Instead they focused on giving handouts to the rich.

No real democrat should vote for a bill that has the second most costly piece being pork given to rich homeowners, at the expense of the US middle class.

This is NOT a bill for Democrats, it is a bill for rich coastal elites.

Fact

The rich are poised to gain more from the SALT cap increase than lower-income people are from other elements of the bill, such as the child tax credit. According to the CRFB, a household in D.C. making $1 million a year would benefit 10 times as much as the SALT cap as a middle-class household would from extending the increased child tax credit for one year,an extra $1,600 for children under 6 and an extra $1,000 for older children.

“We’re debating about whether to give lower- and middle-class families a thousand dollars more a year through the child tax credit, while giving upper-class families $10,000 or more through SALT,” said Marc Goldwein, senior policy director at the CRFB. “That’s counter to everything the Democrats have been saying Build Back Better is about and everything they said about the Trump tax cuts.”

I agree with you that increasing the SALT cap is garbage politics and welfare for the wealthy (who need to pay more taxes imo).

Did Manchin or anyone else actually propose an amendment to strip the SALT language from the bill and was there an up or down vote on that amendment and can you point to me where that happened so that we can see the roll call vote and who supported the amendment and who didn't?

Or is this all just convenient excuse-making? Because if there wasn't an actual amendment offered it sure seems like excuse-making.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:With Manchin, we've been nice, we've been patient, we've held our punches back for a very very long time. But all he did is act in bad faith and screw everyone over. So why should we still be nice?
Republicans would have thrown him under the bus and called him a RINO long ago if he did to them what he did to us.

No, you've been obnoxious just like the petulant progressives have. The Democrats really, really need to rein in the progressive wing and their demands if they want to get anything done in the next 11 months. If they don't, they are going to have one of the worst mid-term whitewashings in most of our lifetimes. It's already looking bad for the Democrats and they keep mismanaging things to make them worse and worse.

Manchin initially said he wanted a package under $1.5T, preferably closer to $1T. He negotiated in good faith and came back up to $1.8T including almost all of the package that was in the $1.9T package that the liberals wanted. The only thing he wanted was to axe the child tax credit, essentially giving money just for having children. He wanted to add a work requirement that the only people eligible for this would be those who were actually working, plus means testing so that only those making less than $200K HHI would qualify. So that those who were well above the 75th percentile nationwide were not going to be getting payouts when they didn't need them.

He was willing to compromise and instead of getting a good faith negotiation from Biden's team, some snotty WH staffer decided to try and bully Manchin and browbeat him into toeing the line. Biden needs to get his team under control because being so arrogant that you kill a negotiations is not the way to handle things when you have the absolute minimum possible majority in one chamber and only slightly more than bare minimum majority in the other chamber. Biden needs to bench whoever blew the negotiations and replace them and go back after the holidays and try and woo Manchin back, more politely this time.

You know absolutely nothing except how to bloviate. Blame the republicans and play-acting Dems like Manchin.

PP explained to you why it came to this. Pretty accurate and to the point.
I don't really give a damn if you don't wish to listen or understand. In fact, the more you folks whine about "Manchin!" the greater the Republican majority will become in 2022.
So, keep whining.

Lol. He represents a tiny state. His views are completely out of step with the Party and most Americans. He’s defying the leader of the Party. He should be continuously called out loudly and forcefully for his bad form. No more kid gloves.
You’re such a baby.

Actually he is closer to the average voter than DCUM

If democrats won elections they could pass their bills.

Instead they focused on giving handouts to the rich.

No real democrat should vote for a bill that has the second most costly piece being pork given to rich homeowners, at the expense of the US middle class.

This is NOT a bill for Democrats, it is a bill for rich coastal elites.

Fact

The rich are poised to gain more from the SALT cap increase than lower-income people are from other elements of the bill, such as the child tax credit. According to the CRFB, a household in D.C. making $1 million a year would benefit 10 times as much as the SALT cap as a middle-class household would from extending the increased child tax credit for one year,an extra $1,600 for children under 6 and an extra $1,000 for older children.

“We’re debating about whether to give lower- and middle-class families a thousand dollars more a year through the child tax credit, while giving upper-class families $10,000 or more through SALT,” said Marc Goldwein, senior policy director at the CRFB. “That’s counter to everything the Democrats have been saying Build Back Better is about and everything they said about the Trump tax cuts.”

I agree with you that increasing the SALT cap is garbage politics and welfare for the wealthy (who need to pay more taxes imo).

Did Manchin or anyone else actually propose an amendment to strip the SALT language from the bill and was there an up or down vote on that amendment and can you point to me where that happened so that we can see the roll call vote and who supported the amendment and who didn't?

Or is this all just convenient excuse-making? Because if there wasn't an actual amendment offered it sure seems like excuse-making.

How is there supposed to be an amendment when they never even wrote the bill?