Biden strikes out with King Manchin

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It had to be a senior staffer. Couldn't be a junior who 'put things out' and still have a job come Monday.

So Ron Klain - White House Chief of Staff? Or Jen Psaki - White House Press Secretary? One of the Senior Advisors? None of them are as vocal as the other two...

So now Manchin's angry that a WH staffer "leaked" things about him? Huh? What was leaked? Did I miss something?

[Anonymous]

LOL Maybe the White House can take this as a lesson learned and back off before he flips the Senate and we end up with no judges & appointments as well

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:With Manchin, we've been nice, we've been patient, we've held our punches back for a very very long time. But all he did is act in bad faith and screw everyone over. So why should we still be nice?
Republicans would have thrown him under the bus and called him a RINO long ago if he did to them what he did to us.

No, you've been obnoxious just like the petulant progressives have. The Democrats really, really need to rein in the progressive wing and their demands if they want to get anything done in the next 11 months. If they don't, they are going to have one of the worst mid-term whitewashings in most of our lifetimes. It's already looking bad for the Democrats and they keep mismanaging things to make them worse and worse.

Manchin initially said he wanted a package under $1.5T, preferably closer to $1T. He negotiated in good faith and came back up to $1.8T including almost all of the package that was in the $1.9T package that the liberals wanted. The only thing he wanted was to axe the child tax credit, essentially giving money just for having children. He wanted to add a work requirement that the only people eligible for this would be those who were actually working, plus means testing so that only those making less than $200K HHI would qualify. So that those who were well above the 75th percentile nationwide were not going to be getting payouts when they didn't need them.

He was willing to compromise and instead of getting a good faith negotiation from Biden's team, some snotty WH staffer decided to try and bully Manchin and browbeat him into toeing the line. Biden needs to get his team under control because being so arrogant that you kill a negotiations is not the way to handle things when you have the absolute minimum possible majority in one chamber and only slightly more than bare minimum majority in the other chamber. Biden needs to bench whoever blew the negotiations and replace them and go back after the holidays and try and woo Manchin back, more politely this time.

You know absolutely nothing except how to bloviate. Blame the republicans and play-acting Dems like Manchin.

PP explained to you why it came to this. Pretty accurate and to the point.
I don't really give a damn if you don't wish to listen or understand. In fact, the more you folks whine about "Manchin!" the greater the Republican majority will become in 2022.
So, keep whining.

Lol. He represents a tiny state. His views are completely out of step with the Party and most Americans. He’s defying the leader of the Party. He should be continuously called out loudly and forcefully for his bad form. No more kid gloves.
You’re such a baby.

Actually he is closer to the average voter than DCUM

If democrats won elections they could pass their bills.

Instead they focused on giving handouts to the rich.

No real democrat should vote for a bill that has the second most costly piece being pork given to rich homeowners, at the expense of the US middle class.

This is NOT a bill for Democrats, it is a bill for rich coastal elites.

Fact

The rich are poised to gain more from the SALT cap increase than lower-income people are from other elements of the bill, such as the child tax credit. According to the CRFB, a household in D.C. making $1 million a year would benefit 10 times as much as the SALT cap as a middle-class household would from extending the increased child tax credit for one year,an extra $1,600 for children under 6 and an extra $1,000 for older children.

“We’re debating about whether to give lower- and middle-class families a thousand dollars more a year through the child tax credit, while giving upper-class families $10,000 or more through SALT,” said Marc Goldwein, senior policy director at the CRFB. “That’s counter to everything the Democrats have been saying Build Back Better is about and everything they said about the Trump tax cuts.”

I agree with you that increasing the SALT cap is garbage politics and welfare for the wealthy (who need to pay more taxes imo).

Did Manchin or anyone else actually propose an amendment to strip the SALT language from the bill and was there an up or down vote on that amendment and can you point to me where that happened so that we can see the roll call vote and who supported the amendment and who didn't?

Or is this all just convenient excuse-making? Because if there wasn't an actual amendment offered it sure seems like excuse-making.

How is there supposed to be an amendment when they never even wrote the bill?

Never wrote the bill? What are you talking about? The bill WAS written and passed the House. https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/5376 The Senate's job then is to pass it with whatever amendments on their end, that's been the process ever since the Constitution was written. As such he damn well could have and should have offered an amendment to it. Why didn't he?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It had to be a senior staffer. Couldn't be a junior who 'put things out' and still have a job come Monday.

So Ron Klain - White House Chief of Staff? Or Jen Psaki - White House Press Secretary? One of the Senior Advisors? None of them are as vocal as the other two...

So now Manchin's angry that a WH staffer "leaked" things about him? Huh? What was leaked? Did I miss something?

The White House put out an official statement naming Manchin as the opposition to BBB and put a target on his back for protestors. After they had agreed not to do that.

Remember his car being surrounded in an underground parking garage? And Sinema being chased into a bathroom?

He says it increased threats to his family and he's right. Then Psaki lit up a truly harsh official statement over Christmas and all bets were off. Not surprised. Despite all of them being Obama veterans - none of them seem wise enough to tone down the attacks.

[Anonymous]

Manchin is a good example of what's wrong in the House and Senate - lots of people who only want to bloviate, play games, and do cigar-filled backroom negotiating out of the public eye, rather than actually rolling up their sleeves, doing the work, and transparently following the process.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It had to be a senior staffer. Couldn't be a junior who 'put things out' and still have a job come Monday.

So Ron Klain - White House Chief of Staff? Or Jen Psaki - White House Press Secretary? One of the Senior Advisors? None of them are as vocal as the other two...

So now Manchin's angry that a WH staffer "leaked" things about him? Huh? What was leaked? Did I miss something?

The White House put out an official statement naming Manchin as the opposition to BBB and put a target on his back for protestors. After they had agreed not to do that.

Remember his car being surrounded in an underground parking garage? And Sinema being chased into a bathroom?

He says it increased threats to his family and he's right. Then Psaki lit up a truly harsh official statement over Christmas and all bets were off. Not surprised. Despite all of them being Obama veterans - none of them seem wise enough to tone down the attacks.

Uhhh... no. That's no confidential leak - that's been widely known info. And in large part due to Manchin's own fat mouth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:With Manchin, we've been nice, we've been patient, we've held our punches back for a very very long time. But all he did is act in bad faith and screw everyone over. So why should we still be nice?
Republicans would have thrown him under the bus and called him a RINO long ago if he did to them what he did to us.

No, you've been obnoxious just like the petulant progressives have. The Democrats really, really need to rein in the progressive wing and their demands if they want to get anything done in the next 11 months. If they don't, they are going to have one of the worst mid-term whitewashings in most of our lifetimes. It's already looking bad for the Democrats and they keep mismanaging things to make them worse and worse.

Manchin initially said he wanted a package under $1.5T, preferably closer to $1T. He negotiated in good faith and came back up to $1.8T including almost all of the package that was in the $1.9T package that the liberals wanted. The only thing he wanted was to axe the child tax credit, essentially giving money just for having children. He wanted to add a work requirement that the only people eligible for this would be those who were actually working, plus means testing so that only those making less than $200K HHI would qualify. So that those who were well above the 75th percentile nationwide were not going to be getting payouts when they didn't need them.

He was willing to compromise and instead of getting a good faith negotiation from Biden's team, some snotty WH staffer decided to try and bully Manchin and browbeat him into toeing the line. Biden needs to get his team under control because being so arrogant that you kill a negotiations is not the way to handle things when you have the absolute minimum possible majority in one chamber and only slightly more than bare minimum majority in the other chamber. Biden needs to bench whoever blew the negotiations and replace them and go back after the holidays and try and woo Manchin back, more politely this time.

You know absolutely nothing except how to bloviate. Blame the republicans and play-acting Dems like Manchin.

PP explained to you why it came to this. Pretty accurate and to the point.
I don't really give a damn if you don't wish to listen or understand. In fact, the more you folks whine about "Manchin!" the greater the Republican majority will become in 2022.
So, keep whining.

Lol. He represents a tiny state. His views are completely out of step with the Party and most Americans. He’s defying the leader of the Party. He should be continuously called out loudly and forcefully for his bad form. No more kid gloves.
You’re such a baby.

Actually he is closer to the average voter than DCUM

If democrats won elections they could pass their bills.

Instead they focused on giving handouts to the rich.

No real democrat should vote for a bill that has the second most costly piece being pork given to rich homeowners, at the expense of the US middle class.

This is NOT a bill for Democrats, it is a bill for rich coastal elites.

Fact

The rich are poised to gain more from the SALT cap increase than lower-income people are from other elements of the bill, such as the child tax credit. According to the CRFB, a household in D.C. making $1 million a year would benefit 10 times as much as the SALT cap as a middle-class household would from extending the increased child tax credit for one year,an extra $1,600 for children under 6 and an extra $1,000 for older children.

“We’re debating about whether to give lower- and middle-class families a thousand dollars more a year through the child tax credit, while giving upper-class families $10,000 or more through SALT,” said Marc Goldwein, senior policy director at the CRFB. “That’s counter to everything the Democrats have been saying Build Back Better is about and everything they said about the Trump tax cuts.”

I agree with you that increasing the SALT cap is garbage politics and welfare for the wealthy (who need to pay more taxes imo).

Did Manchin or anyone else actually propose an amendment to strip the SALT language from the bill and was there an up or down vote on that amendment and can you point to me where that happened so that we can see the roll call vote and who supported the amendment and who didn't?

Or is this all just convenient excuse-making? Because if there wasn't an actual amendment offered it sure seems like excuse-making.

How is there supposed to be an amendment when they never even wrote the bill?

Never wrote the bill? What are you talking about? The bill WAS written and passed the House. https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/5376 The Senate's job then is to pass it with whatever amendments on their end, that's been the process ever since the Constitution was written. As such he damn well could have and should have offered an amendment to it. Why didn't he?

Senate bill was always going to be separate. No one was going to pass that garbage trashcan from the House. Just like the Bipartisan Infrastructure Bill, which was signed into law and passed btw, was a Senate bill that then made it over to the House with no amendments btw. Hallmark of good legislation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It had to be a senior staffer. Couldn't be a junior who 'put things out' and still have a job come Monday.

So Ron Klain - White House Chief of Staff? Or Jen Psaki - White House Press Secretary? One of the Senior Advisors? None of them are as vocal as the other two...

So now Manchin's angry that a WH staffer "leaked" things about him? Huh? What was leaked? Did I miss something?

The White House put out an official statement naming Manchin as the opposition to BBB and put a target on his back for protestors. After they had agreed not to do that.

Remember his car being surrounded in an underground parking garage? And Sinema being chased into a bathroom?

He says it increased threats to his family and he's right. Then Psaki lit up a truly harsh official statement over Christmas and all bets were off. Not surprised. Despite all of them being Obama veterans - none of them seem wise enough to tone down the attacks.

Uhhh... no. That's no confidential leak - that's been widely known info. And in large part due to Manchin's own fat mouth.

Who said anything about confidential? The White House was unprofessional and Biden is asleep at the tiller.

[Anonymous]

So it's professional, filled with dignity and grace for Manchin to disingenuously trash talk BBB but it's grotesquely unprofessional for someone to repeat what Manchin said.

Got it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:With Manchin, we've been nice, we've been patient, we've held our punches back for a very very long time. But all he did is act in bad faith and screw everyone over. So why should we still be nice?
Republicans would have thrown him under the bus and called him a RINO long ago if he did to them what he did to us.

No, you've been obnoxious just like the petulant progressives have. The Democrats really, really need to rein in the progressive wing and their demands if they want to get anything done in the next 11 months. If they don't, they are going to have one of the worst mid-term whitewashings in most of our lifetimes. It's already looking bad for the Democrats and they keep mismanaging things to make them worse and worse.

Manchin initially said he wanted a package under $1.5T, preferably closer to $1T. He negotiated in good faith and came back up to $1.8T including almost all of the package that was in the $1.9T package that the liberals wanted. The only thing he wanted was to axe the child tax credit, essentially giving money just for having children. He wanted to add a work requirement that the only people eligible for this would be those who were actually working, plus means testing so that only those making less than $200K HHI would qualify. So that those who were well above the 75th percentile nationwide were not going to be getting payouts when they didn't need them.

He was willing to compromise and instead of getting a good faith negotiation from Biden's team, some snotty WH staffer decided to try and bully Manchin and browbeat him into toeing the line. Biden needs to get his team under control because being so arrogant that you kill a negotiations is not the way to handle things when you have the absolute minimum possible majority in one chamber and only slightly more than bare minimum majority in the other chamber. Biden needs to bench whoever blew the negotiations and replace them and go back after the holidays and try and woo Manchin back, more politely this time.

You know absolutely nothing except how to bloviate. Blame the republicans and play-acting Dems like Manchin.

PP explained to you why it came to this. Pretty accurate and to the point.
I don't really give a damn if you don't wish to listen or understand. In fact, the more you folks whine about "Manchin!" the greater the Republican majority will become in 2022.
So, keep whining.

Lol. He represents a tiny state. His views are completely out of step with the Party and most Americans. He’s defying the leader of the Party. He should be continuously called out loudly and forcefully for his bad form. No more kid gloves.
You’re such a baby.

Actually he is closer to the average voter than DCUM

If democrats won elections they could pass their bills.

Instead they focused on giving handouts to the rich.

No real democrat should vote for a bill that has the second most costly piece being pork given to rich homeowners, at the expense of the US middle class.

This is NOT a bill for Democrats, it is a bill for rich coastal elites.

Fact

The rich are poised to gain more from the SALT cap increase than lower-income people are from other elements of the bill, such as the child tax credit. According to the CRFB, a household in D.C. making $1 million a year would benefit 10 times as much as the SALT cap as a middle-class household would from extending the increased child tax credit for one year,an extra $1,600 for children under 6 and an extra $1,000 for older children.

“We’re debating about whether to give lower- and middle-class families a thousand dollars more a year through the child tax credit, while giving upper-class families $10,000 or more through SALT,” said Marc Goldwein, senior policy director at the CRFB. “That’s counter to everything the Democrats have been saying Build Back Better is about and everything they said about the Trump tax cuts.”

I agree with you that increasing the SALT cap is garbage politics and welfare for the wealthy (who need to pay more taxes imo).

Did Manchin or anyone else actually propose an amendment to strip the SALT language from the bill and was there an up or down vote on that amendment and can you point to me where that happened so that we can see the roll call vote and who supported the amendment and who didn't?

Or is this all just convenient excuse-making? Because if there wasn't an actual amendment offered it sure seems like excuse-making.

How is there supposed to be an amendment when they never even wrote the bill?

Never wrote the bill? What are you talking about? The bill WAS written and passed the House. https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/5376 The Senate's job then is to pass it with whatever amendments on their end, that's been the process ever since the Constitution was written. As such he damn well could have and should have offered an amendment to it. Why didn't he?

Senate bill was always going to be separate. No one was going to pass that garbage trashcan from the House. Just like the Bipartisan Infrastructure Bill, which was signed into law and passed btw, was a Senate bill that then made it over to the House with no amendments btw. Hallmark of good legislation.

That makes no sense. What was the point of the House passing it at all then? And hilarious that you called it a garbage trashcan that nobody would pass when it DID pass.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So it's professional, filled with dignity and grace for Manchin to disingenuously trash talk BBB but it's grotesquely unprofessional for someone to repeat what Manchin said.

Got it.

Well yeah, its a bill. You can trash talk as much as you want as you dress it, clean it out, and prepare it for a vote. Its inanimate. Insulting a former Governor and sitting U.S. Senator who has served his country in various positions for over 50 years? Its not only arrogant, its presumptuous. You needed his f**king vote. I don't know what they're on or maybe they got dizzy during WFH and forgot common sense. But they deserve this fail.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:With Manchin, we've been nice, we've been patient, we've held our punches back for a very very long time. But all he did is act in bad faith and screw everyone over. So why should we still be nice?
Republicans would have thrown him under the bus and called him a RINO long ago if he did to them what he did to us.

No, you've been obnoxious just like the petulant progressives have. The Democrats really, really need to rein in the progressive wing and their demands if they want to get anything done in the next 11 months. If they don't, they are going to have one of the worst mid-term whitewashings in most of our lifetimes. It's already looking bad for the Democrats and they keep mismanaging things to make them worse and worse.

Manchin initially said he wanted a package under $1.5T, preferably closer to $1T. He negotiated in good faith and came back up to $1.8T including almost all of the package that was in the $1.9T package that the liberals wanted. The only thing he wanted was to axe the child tax credit, essentially giving money just for having children. He wanted to add a work requirement that the only people eligible for this would be those who were actually working, plus means testing so that only those making less than $200K HHI would qualify. So that those who were well above the 75th percentile nationwide were not going to be getting payouts when they didn't need them.

He was willing to compromise and instead of getting a good faith negotiation from Biden's team, some snotty WH staffer decided to try and bully Manchin and browbeat him into toeing the line. Biden needs to get his team under control because being so arrogant that you kill a negotiations is not the way to handle things when you have the absolute minimum possible majority in one chamber and only slightly more than bare minimum majority in the other chamber. Biden needs to bench whoever blew the negotiations and replace them and go back after the holidays and try and woo Manchin back, more politely this time.

You know absolutely nothing except how to bloviate. Blame the republicans and play-acting Dems like Manchin.

PP explained to you why it came to this. Pretty accurate and to the point.
I don't really give a damn if you don't wish to listen or understand. In fact, the more you folks whine about "Manchin!" the greater the Republican majority will become in 2022.
So, keep whining.

Lol. He represents a tiny state. His views are completely out of step with the Party and most Americans. He’s defying the leader of the Party. He should be continuously called out loudly and forcefully for his bad form. No more kid gloves.
You’re such a baby.

Actually he is closer to the average voter than DCUM

If democrats won elections they could pass their bills.

Instead they focused on giving handouts to the rich.

No real democrat should vote for a bill that has the second most costly piece being pork given to rich homeowners, at the expense of the US middle class.

This is NOT a bill for Democrats, it is a bill for rich coastal elites.

Fact

The rich are poised to gain more from the SALT cap increase than lower-income people are from other elements of the bill, such as the child tax credit. According to the CRFB, a household in D.C. making $1 million a year would benefit 10 times as much as the SALT cap as a middle-class household would from extending the increased child tax credit for one year,an extra $1,600 for children under 6 and an extra $1,000 for older children.

“We’re debating about whether to give lower- and middle-class families a thousand dollars more a year through the child tax credit, while giving upper-class families $10,000 or more through SALT,” said Marc Goldwein, senior policy director at the CRFB. “That’s counter to everything the Democrats have been saying Build Back Better is about and everything they said about the Trump tax cuts.”

I agree with you that increasing the SALT cap is garbage politics and welfare for the wealthy (who need to pay more taxes imo).

Did Manchin or anyone else actually propose an amendment to strip the SALT language from the bill and was there an up or down vote on that amendment and can you point to me where that happened so that we can see the roll call vote and who supported the amendment and who didn't?

Or is this all just convenient excuse-making? Because if there wasn't an actual amendment offered it sure seems like excuse-making.

How is there supposed to be an amendment when they never even wrote the bill?

Never wrote the bill? What are you talking about? The bill WAS written and passed the House. https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/5376 The Senate's job then is to pass it with whatever amendments on their end, that's been the process ever since the Constitution was written. As such he damn well could have and should have offered an amendment to it. Why didn't he?

Senate bill was always going to be separate. No one was going to pass that garbage trashcan from the House. Just like the Bipartisan Infrastructure Bill, which was signed into law and passed btw, was a Senate bill that then made it over to the House with no amendments btw. Hallmark of good legislation.

That makes no sense. What was the point of the House passing it at all then? And hilarious that you called it a garbage trashcan that nobody would pass when it DID pass.

Let me clarify - was never going to pass the SENATE. Trash passes the House all the time. In the last six months they've caucused a vote for a mandated 4-day only workweek and legalized marijuana.

https://www.businessinsider.com/congress-progressives-back-bill-4-day-workweek-remote-work-2021-12

As for why it would pass the House? Optics. The progressives still look like fools but at least they can say they got a 'win' in the House.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:With Manchin, we've been nice, we've been patient, we've held our punches back for a very very long time. But all he did is act in bad faith and screw everyone over. So why should we still be nice?
Republicans would have thrown him under the bus and called him a RINO long ago if he did to them what he did to us.

No, you've been obnoxious just like the petulant progressives have. The Democrats really, really need to rein in the progressive wing and their demands if they want to get anything done in the next 11 months. If they don't, they are going to have one of the worst mid-term whitewashings in most of our lifetimes. It's already looking bad for the Democrats and they keep mismanaging things to make them worse and worse.

Manchin initially said he wanted a package under $1.5T, preferably closer to $1T. He negotiated in good faith and came back up to $1.8T including almost all of the package that was in the $1.9T package that the liberals wanted. The only thing he wanted was to axe the child tax credit, essentially giving money just for having children. He wanted to add a work requirement that the only people eligible for this would be those who were actually working, plus means testing so that only those making less than $200K HHI would qualify. So that those who were well above the 75th percentile nationwide were not going to be getting payouts when they didn't need them.

He was willing to compromise and instead of getting a good faith negotiation from Biden's team, some snotty WH staffer decided to try and bully Manchin and browbeat him into toeing the line. Biden needs to get his team under control because being so arrogant that you kill a negotiations is not the way to handle things when you have the absolute minimum possible majority in one chamber and only slightly more than bare minimum majority in the other chamber. Biden needs to bench whoever blew the negotiations and replace them and go back after the holidays and try and woo Manchin back, more politely this time.

You know absolutely nothing except how to bloviate. Blame the republicans and play-acting Dems like Manchin.

PP explained to you why it came to this. Pretty accurate and to the point.
I don't really give a damn if you don't wish to listen or understand. In fact, the more you folks whine about "Manchin!" the greater the Republican majority will become in 2022.
So, keep whining.

Lol. He represents a tiny state. His views are completely out of step with the Party and most Americans. He’s defying the leader of the Party. He should be continuously called out loudly and forcefully for his bad form. No more kid gloves.
You’re such a baby.

Actually he is closer to the average voter than DCUM

If democrats won elections they could pass their bills.

Instead they focused on giving handouts to the rich.

No real democrat should vote for a bill that has the second most costly piece being pork given to rich homeowners, at the expense of the US middle class.

This is NOT a bill for Democrats, it is a bill for rich coastal elites.

Fact

The rich are poised to gain more from the SALT cap increase than lower-income people are from other elements of the bill, such as the child tax credit. According to the CRFB, a household in D.C. making $1 million a year would benefit 10 times as much as the SALT cap as a middle-class household would from extending the increased child tax credit for one year,an extra $1,600 for children under 6 and an extra $1,000 for older children.

“We’re debating about whether to give lower- and middle-class families a thousand dollars more a year through the child tax credit, while giving upper-class families $10,000 or more through SALT,” said Marc Goldwein, senior policy director at the CRFB. “That’s counter to everything the Democrats have been saying Build Back Better is about and everything they said about the Trump tax cuts.”

I agree with you that increasing the SALT cap is garbage politics and welfare for the wealthy (who need to pay more taxes imo).

Did Manchin or anyone else actually propose an amendment to strip the SALT language from the bill and was there an up or down vote on that amendment and can you point to me where that happened so that we can see the roll call vote and who supported the amendment and who didn't?

Or is this all just convenient excuse-making? Because if there wasn't an actual amendment offered it sure seems like excuse-making.

How is there supposed to be an amendment when they never even wrote the bill?

Never wrote the bill? What are you talking about? The bill WAS written and passed the House. https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/5376 The Senate's job then is to pass it with whatever amendments on their end, that's been the process ever since the Constitution was written. As such he damn well could have and should have offered an amendment to it. Why didn't he?

Senate bill was always going to be separate. No one was going to pass that garbage trashcan from the House. Just like the Bipartisan Infrastructure Bill, which was signed into law and passed btw, was a Senate bill that then made it over to the House with no amendments btw. Hallmark of good legislation.

That makes no sense. What was the point of the House passing it at all then? And hilarious that you called it a garbage trashcan that nobody would pass when it DID pass.

Let me clarify - was never going to pass the SENATE. Trash passes the House all the time. In the last six months they've caucused a vote for a mandated 4-day only workweek and legalized marijuana.

https://www.businessinsider.com/congress-progressives-back-bill-4-day-workweek-remote-work-2021-12

As for why it would pass the House? Optics. The progressives still look like fools but at least they can say they got a 'win' in the House.

Uh huh. It passed with a majority in the House, which is more directly correlated with the popular will of the people than the Senate is.

If it were truly just some kind of "radical progressive" bill as you claim, it would have failed in the House with 335 votes to 100.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So it's professional, filled with dignity and grace for Manchin to disingenuously trash talk BBB but it's grotesquely unprofessional for someone to repeat what Manchin said.

Got it.

Well yeah, its a bill. You can trash talk as much as you want as you dress it, clean it out, and prepare it for a vote. Its inanimate. Insulting a former Governor and sitting U.S. Senator who has served his country in various positions for over 50 years? Its not only arrogant, its presumptuous. You needed his f**king vote. I don't know what they're on or maybe they got dizzy during WFH and forgot common sense. But they deserve this fail.

Oh so it's trashtalking him to repeat what he said? Let's cut to the chase here: NOW we know that all this time, Manchin was just a sleazy grifter. NOW we know he took $1.5 million from Republican donors to scuttle the bill. Turns out they never had his vote to begin with. The guy's a con man. But somehow now the Democrats are the bad guys for calling him out for HIS misdeeds?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:With Manchin, we've been nice, we've been patient, we've held our punches back for a very very long time. But all he did is act in bad faith and screw everyone over. So why should we still be nice?
Republicans would have thrown him under the bus and called him a RINO long ago if he did to them what he did to us.

No, you've been obnoxious just like the petulant progressives have. The Democrats really, really need to rein in the progressive wing and their demands if they want to get anything done in the next 11 months. If they don't, they are going to have one of the worst mid-term whitewashings in most of our lifetimes. It's already looking bad for the Democrats and they keep mismanaging things to make them worse and worse.

Manchin initially said he wanted a package under $1.5T, preferably closer to $1T. He negotiated in good faith and came back up to $1.8T including almost all of the package that was in the $1.9T package that the liberals wanted. The only thing he wanted was to axe the child tax credit, essentially giving money just for having children. He wanted to add a work requirement that the only people eligible for this would be those who were actually working, plus means testing so that only those making less than $200K HHI would qualify. So that those who were well above the 75th percentile nationwide were not going to be getting payouts when they didn't need them.

He was willing to compromise and instead of getting a good faith negotiation from Biden's team, some snotty WH staffer decided to try and bully Manchin and browbeat him into toeing the line. Biden needs to get his team under control because being so arrogant that you kill a negotiations is not the way to handle things when you have the absolute minimum possible majority in one chamber and only slightly more than bare minimum majority in the other chamber. Biden needs to bench whoever blew the negotiations and replace them and go back after the holidays and try and woo Manchin back, more politely this time.

You know absolutely nothing except how to bloviate. Blame the republicans and play-acting Dems like Manchin.

PP explained to you why it came to this. Pretty accurate and to the point.
I don't really give a damn if you don't wish to listen or understand. In fact, the more you folks whine about "Manchin!" the greater the Republican majority will become in 2022.
So, keep whining.

Lol. He represents a tiny state. His views are completely out of step with the Party and most Americans. He’s defying the leader of the Party. He should be continuously called out loudly and forcefully for his bad form. No more kid gloves.
You’re such a baby.

Actually he is closer to the average voter than DCUM

If democrats won elections they could pass their bills.

Instead they focused on giving handouts to the rich.

No real democrat should vote for a bill that has the second most costly piece being pork given to rich homeowners, at the expense of the US middle class.

This is NOT a bill for Democrats, it is a bill for rich coastal elites.

Fact

The rich are poised to gain more from the SALT cap increase than lower-income people are from other elements of the bill, such as the child tax credit. According to the CRFB, a household in D.C. making $1 million a year would benefit 10 times as much as the SALT cap as a middle-class household would from extending the increased child tax credit for one year,an extra $1,600 for children under 6 and an extra $1,000 for older children.

“We’re debating about whether to give lower- and middle-class families a thousand dollars more a year through the child tax credit, while giving upper-class families $10,000 or more through SALT,” said Marc Goldwein, senior policy director at the CRFB. “That’s counter to everything the Democrats have been saying Build Back Better is about and everything they said about the Trump tax cuts.”

I agree with you that increasing the SALT cap is garbage politics and welfare for the wealthy (who need to pay more taxes imo).

Did Manchin or anyone else actually propose an amendment to strip the SALT language from the bill and was there an up or down vote on that amendment and can you point to me where that happened so that we can see the roll call vote and who supported the amendment and who didn't?

Or is this all just convenient excuse-making? Because if there wasn't an actual amendment offered it sure seems like excuse-making.

How is there supposed to be an amendment when they never even wrote the bill?

Never wrote the bill? What are you talking about? The bill WAS written and passed the House. https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/5376 The Senate's job then is to pass it with whatever amendments on their end, that's been the process ever since the Constitution was written. As such he damn well could have and should have offered an amendment to it. Why didn't he?

Senate bill was always going to be separate. No one was going to pass that garbage trashcan from the House. Just like the Bipartisan Infrastructure Bill, which was signed into law and passed btw, was a Senate bill that then made it over to the House with no amendments btw. Hallmark of good legislation.

That makes no sense. What was the point of the House passing it at all then? And hilarious that you called it a garbage trashcan that nobody would pass when it DID pass.

Let me clarify - was never going to pass the SENATE. Trash passes the House all the time. In the last six months they've caucused a vote for a mandated 4-day only workweek and legalized marijuana.

https://www.businessinsider.com/congress-progressives-back-bill-4-day-workweek-remote-work-2021-12

As for why it would pass the House? Optics. The progressives still look like fools but at least they can say they got a 'win' in the House.

There is majority support for legal marijuana in every demographic. But here you are acting like it's some kind of outlandish looney tunes thing that nobody wants and nobody would ever vote for. Shows there's a break with reality going on here.