Strict parenting and yes ma'am, no sir for toddlers?

[Anonymous]

My DH is from the South and his mom is very old school. My ILs have never invited me to call them their first names and I call them Mr./Mrs. last name even after being with my DH for ten years and having two kids. I even spoke with them about it this summer and my MIL said that was "how she was raised". My DS is now 3. My husband and I believe in positive parenting and try to model behavior. My son is very good about using manners, helping, cleaning up after himself. However, I am not a strict parent and I do not drill "yes ma'am, no sir" when speaking with me or other adults to my toddler. Instead I will say "yes, Miss/Mr. first name or yes, mommy/daddy/DS or brother's name". My parents were pretty strict and I was raised to say "yes ma'am, no sir" when talking to people not just elders but not in a militaristic or heirarchial way or a way that is fake and not genuine. My husband is not in a warm or close family. His interactions with his parents are really cold and removed.

My mom is very strict and she even commented how odd it was that my MIL was correcting our toddler when he said "yes" or "yeah" with "yes ma'am". The kid is very verbal and my other nephews (2 and 6) are not as verbal and have speech delays but are drilled "no/yes sir/ma'am". My sister and mom complimented my nephews at my son's birthday party and my MIL mentioned that "their parents (meaning SIL and BIL) are very strict" indicating she thought my son and I were too lenient with our just turned three year old!!!

I refuse to do this with a toddler. I am very polite and people always compliment me on my manners and hospitality. But I also consider myself down to earth, warm, welcoming and friendly and to my sons loving. Is modeling polite behavior and kindness best? My son is given a lot of compliments from teachers, neighbors and other parents about showing kindness and inclusiveness to others at school and in our neighborhood. For what it is worth, my DH and SIL are two of the nicest people I know and very kind. But my MIL is a raging racist (I think it is very hard for her that DS' besties are Asian, Black and Latino and that we live in a diverse community and have diverse friends. She is used to only WASPy friends despite being highly educated and well traveled (over 200 countries!)).

I have been responding we try to model polite behavior as it's developmentally appropriate, but receiving a lot of backhanded comments or making comments about DS is getting to me. DS asked me "what does behave mean? Grandmommy says I need to say yes ma'am."

Any advice appreciated. My nephews are very sweet little boys but they are also socially awkward and speech delayed. They are more like little robots that their parents drill this behavior into. My son is a very gregarious and happy toddler. Sure, he is rambunctious and not as well behaved (sometimes doesn't listen, can test authority) but he is kind and loving and a toddler. What would you do or say?

[Anonymous]

You have any number of options, but I would choose one of these two:

"At Grandma and Grandpa's house, we try to say 'yes, ma'am' and 'yes, sir.' It makes them happy."

Or, you get DH to come right out and explain to them that you are not requiring your children to say it, and that you two won't be enforcing it.

[Anonymous]

Alright, so a few things stand out.

1) You know that you're doing the *right* thing for you and your family. You don't want to be too strict and raise robot kids. I agree with you.

2) However, don't throw your nephews under the bus for this. What on earth do speech delays have to do with saying yes ma'am and no sir?

3) And, people can say "yes ma'am" and still be warm people. You're conflating a bunch of stuff.

So the bottom line is, you don't want to change your parenting. You think you're doing it right. Great. Then don't change it. But, don't go looking for compliments where you aren't going to get them. The older generation thinks you're doing it wrong. You think they did it wrong. No point in trying to change each other's minds, right?

And finally, I would "cave" in one aspect, and make sure your kids address their grandparents how they wish to be addressed. Whether it's yes ma'am or no sir or whatever. Your kid can learn that one rule.

[Anonymous]

OP here. I don't think it's inappropriate to say "yes ma'am or no sir". Just for a one year old and three year old? A little different if we are talking teenagers. But I am also not super formal with my family but am formal at work and in business situations. For example, on the phone with clients or in meetings I will say "yes sir or ma'am" as that is how I was raised but probably not with a coworker who I am familiar with or with my parents or siblings. My husband doesn't talk formal to my parents or my grandmother and grandfather. He calls them by their first names! I said to my MIL over the summer, "I was raised to call elders by their last names but most of my friends' parents asked me to call them by their first names by high school or college. Would it be okay to call you Sue and Bob (made up names)? FIL didn't say a word. MIL said "you can call me Miss Sue". I explained where I grew up that is how you addressed adults as a very young child and I would not be calling her Miss Sue so guess I'd call her Mrs. Last Name. My dad is hilarious. He told me, you should tell her "you can call me Mrs. Last name". I had a coworker in my 20s (I'm in my late 30s) who insisted I call her Ms. Last Name. I said to her, "Well X, if you insist, then please call me Ms. Last Name too".

[Anonymous]

OP here. My nephews have major speech delays but are very bright boys. However, they are so micromanaged and "worn down" by instructions they communicate like little robots. The three year old until recently did not say two word phrases.

I don't think y'all get it. This is like excessive "yes ma'am". Not normal.

For example DH on the phone with parents (they call on the house phone so they can both talk):
DH: Hello sir. Yes, ma'am, we were at church. DS, want to talk to granddad and grandmommy?
DH: Yes sir.
DH: Yes ma'am.

Every sentence is punctuated with that formality. Do you understand? It is not "normal" at least not what I am used to and I lived with 100 women in a sorority house from all walks of life/SES and work in different countries and with many different cultures.

Me talking to my dad:
Hi dad! How was your day? Did you see X in the paper? Want to talk to DS?

[Anonymous]

My kids were raised saying yes ma'am, no sir, etc. We are from the Deep South where literally all the kids are raised that way. When we moved to D.C. my kids' teachers would go on and on about how well-behaved and well-mannered my kids were. I could not understand it. They are good kids, but there is certainly nothing special about the way they behave. It took me half of that first school year to realize that it was simply the "yes ma'am" thing that made their teachers perceive them as these wonderful kids.

[Anonymous]

Just tell your kids to use the yes ma'am / no sir with grandma and grandpa, or get used to them being bothered by it. It seems like you're trying to make this into the world's biggest deal, and it's really not that serious. Older generations and people in different regions have different expectations of what proper respect looks like. It won't kill your kids (or turn them into robots) to get in the habit of speaking to people 50 years+ older than they are with extra respect.

[Anonymous]

It is pretty simple, OP. If you and your husband want your children to do this then teach them to. If you don't then have your husband explain to his parents what your parental decisions are. It is no sign of disrespect but how you are choosing to raise your children. You shouldn't make choices about your children to make other people happy. You can still raise VERY polite children with out saying sir and ma'am. They can say "yes please, mommy" and I feel, be very polite. Sir and ma'am sounds very outdated/military like. I am very big on manners and etiquette even if it is outdated but this seems a little much..but then again I'm originally from the Northeast.

[Anonymous]

My mother was raised in an aristocratic family where she had to curtsy and kiss hands, and of course always use the formal "vous" when addressing her parents or any other adult.

So... I understand that your ILs are unusually hung up about this, and it's making you uncomfortable, but I think it's all about tone. If your ILs are punitive or aggressive in their tone of voice to your son, then I would really not have much contact with them at all. That would be a deal-breaker. If they try to correct your son's language kindly, then I would go along. It's not the words, but the intent behind them that is the most important.

[Anonymous]

I wouldn't make a child that young say that or expect them to remember to say that every time. My three year old would never remember. She knows to say please and thank you. I think Ma'am and sir sound too formal when talking to grandparents. I was actually raised not to say this. I remember my mom and grandma being offended when people would call them ma'am. My older kids do go to a classical elementary school and are required to say , Ma'am and Sir. They follow that rule at school but we don't say it at home.

[Anonymous]

OP here. I don't think you realize how often they want them to say it. Like say you asked a question: Timmy do you want an apple?
My DS might say "please I would like an apple, Grandmommy (that is how he speaks at three)"
My MIL will say "yes, ma'am"
DS walks around saying "yes sir, yes sir, three bags full! yes ma'am! and laughing"
So it isn't like my son isn't being polite.
Say I'm washing fruit and my MIL asks me how I want to cut it. I'll say "I'm cutting the fruit like X"
She will correct me, "ma'am please cut the fruit like this"
my husband NEVER calls his mom or dad "mom/dad" it is always militaristic and very formal, "sir/ma'am". And they are not a military family and FIL is from Philly.

[Anonymous]

I've never said, "yes ma'am" and won't teach my kids to say it. I think saying "yes" and "no" is fine. I only see southerners and black people speaking like that.

[Anonymous]

OP, what do you want people to say? If you're not comfortable with it, you have to have that conversation with your husband/in-laws. If you're not willing to have that conversation, then you have to deal with them correcting your kids more than you think is reasonable.

If you just want people on DCUM to tell you that your in laws sound like they might be hard cases, then okay. Some people have told you that. But you keep coming back trying to get something more out of us. There's no magic secret that's going to make you and your in laws agree on how kids should address adults.

[Anonymous]

And for what it is worth, I am from the South too (TN) but just not a formal person. Like I said, people always compliment me on how polite I am and even give my mom free things because she is "so nice". No one would say my MIL is "nice". She is from a very wealthy, Old South family and I think what is killing me is her intent. She is punitive and aggressive with my toddler when he is polite and sweet. Like I said, he will say "grandmommy, I please go outside (toddler speak)?
She will say we are too lenient on him and not strict

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I don't think you realize how often they want them to say it. Like say you asked a question: Timmy do you want an apple?
My DS might say "please I would like an apple, Grandmommy (that is how he speaks at three)"
My MIL will say "yes, ma'am"
DS walks around saying "yes sir, yes sir, three bags full! yes ma'am! and laughing"
So it isn't like my son isn't being polite.
Say I'm washing fruit and my MIL asks me how I want to cut it. I'll say "I'm cutting the fruit like X"
She will correct me, "ma'am please cut the fruit like this"
my husband NEVER calls his mom or dad "mom/dad" it is always militaristic and very formal, "sir/ma'am". And they are not a military family and FIL is from Philly.

They shouldn't correct you. You are an adult. They also shouldn't correct your kids when they are being polite. They should just be like other inlaws and complain about your behind your back. You really need to get a bit of a backbone here if this is not what you want. You need to stick up for yourself when they correct you and have your husband talk to them about the kids.