FCPS Skyview Boundary Revised Scenario 1 / 2

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:So let me get this straight. Skyview was purchased to relieve capacity at Chantilly and Centreville and to reduce travel time for far flung Oakton students. Yet the leading scenario guts Westfield and South Lakes while leaving Chantilly, Centreville, and Oakton boundaries mostly untouched, save for the poor kids who are easier to shuffle around without a fight.

Not really.

The goal was always to relieve capacity at Chantilly, Centreville and Westfield.

Oakton and South Lakes were included in the boundary study because of their proximity to Skyview but they were not the main target. This point was clear from the beginning.

Chantilly is going to see a meaningful relief.

I do think they should move more Centreville kids to Westfield.

Incorrect. When the building was purchased FCPS and multiple school board members justified it by saying it would keep kids from having to go all the way from Herndon to Oakton HS. That was one of the main justifications.

This was not the justification from the Superintendent. Centreville and Chantilly overcrowding and the long distance from Floris to Westfield were the core issues to address with Skyview. Oakton and South Lakes were secondary concerns.

The Superintendent did not drive the decision to purchase KAA; School Board members did. And several of them - in particular, Frisch and McDaniel - highlighted the long commutes of students to Oakton. It was every bit as much part of the discussion as overcrowding at Chantilly. If anything, overcrowding at Centreville was a secondary concern, since there was already a plan to renovate and expand Centreville.

The board makes a decision not the superintendent.

But there are 12 board members. All of them were worried about the overcrowding in Western Fairfax.

Only two of the 12 expressed their concern about the bus ride. And I am pretty sure both will have no problem of voting for a scaneario where Crossfield stays at Oakton.

Actually, three of the then-12 board members voted against the KAA acquisition: Meren, Moon, and Sizemore-Heizer.

Of the remaining nine, some just went along with the purchase because they didn't think FCPS would be able to find a similar site again in the future. They didn't necessarily speak to current overcrowding in western Fairfax as a sufficient justification.

Several alluded to the long commutes to Oakton at the meeting when the purchase was approved. They may vote for a scenario where Crossfield stays at Oakton, but that probably speaks more to their desire to avoid controversy and move on than to do what objectively makes the most sense. Moving Fox Mill because more parents favor moving ought to invite scrutiny as to why families are wiling or eager to leave South Lakes, and not just be the reason to reassign Fox Mill. Others still at South Lakes may have the same concerns as the Fox Mill parents, yet moving Fox Mill won't do anything for them.

Nope.

Nobody voted against the purchase of KAA. Ten members voted for it. Two voted present: Moon and Meren.

Several alluded to the long commutes to Oakton at the meeting when the purchase was approved? Who are they? Give me the names.

Western HS is all about the relief for the overcrowded schools. Read the previous CIPs approved by the board. You won't find a single mention about the long distance from Crossfield to Oakton.

Distance and all other issues are just a secondary reason.

Nope. Do your own research.

The prior CIPs didn’t discuss a western high school for another decade or so, and the actual scenarios for Skyview just released highlight average commuting times.

Transportation times are also specifically mentioned as a relevant consideration in Policy 8130.

+1. OP doesn’t like the fact that the consultants found Oakton kids have some of the longest commutes of any kids in the county.

What does that have to do with the reasoning for the school being purchased? Of course, Oakton HS kids have some of the longest commutes in the county. Oakton HS has a dramatic western boundary because it is very close to multiple high schools.

Yet it has much longer commutes than Madison, Fairfax, and Woodson. Hmmm.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So let me get this straight. Skyview was purchased to relieve capacity at Chantilly and Centreville and to reduce travel time for far flung Oakton students. Yet the leading scenario guts Westfield and South Lakes while leaving Chantilly, Centreville, and Oakton boundaries mostly untouched, save for the poor kids who are easier to shuffle around without a fight.

Not really.

The goal was always to relieve capacity at Chantilly, Centreville and Westfield.

Oakton and South Lakes were included in the boundary study because of their proximity to Skyview but they were not the main target. This point was clear from the beginning.

Chantilly is going to see a meaningful relief.

I do think they should move more Centreville kids to Westfield.

Incorrect. When the building was purchased FCPS and multiple school board members justified it by saying it would keep kids from having to go all the way from Herndon to Oakton HS. That was one of the main justifications.

This was not the justification from the Superintendent. Centreville and Chantilly overcrowding and the long distance from Floris to Westfield were the core issues to address with Skyview. Oakton and South Lakes were secondary concerns.

The Superintendent did not drive the decision to purchase KAA; School Board members did. And several of them - in particular, Frisch and McDaniel - highlighted the long commutes of students to Oakton. It was every bit as much part of the discussion as overcrowding at Chantilly. If anything, overcrowding at Centreville was a secondary concern, since there was already a plan to renovate and expand Centreville.

The board makes a decision not the superintendent.

But there are 12 board members. All of them were worried about the overcrowding in Western Fairfax.

Only two of the 12 expressed their concern about the bus ride. And I am pretty sure both will have no problem of voting for a scaneario where Crossfield stays at Oakton.

Actually, three of the then-12 board members voted against the KAA acquisition: Meren, Moon, and Sizemore-Heizer.

Of the remaining nine, some just went along with the purchase because they didn't think FCPS would be able to find a similar site again in the future. They didn't necessarily speak to current overcrowding in western Fairfax as a sufficient justification.

Several alluded to the long commutes to Oakton at the meeting when the purchase was approved. They may vote for a scenario where Crossfield stays at Oakton, but that probably speaks more to their desire to avoid controversy and move on than to do what objectively makes the most sense. Moving Fox Mill because more parents favor moving ought to invite scrutiny as to why families are wiling or eager to leave South Lakes, and not just be the reason to reassign Fox Mill. Others still at South Lakes may have the same concerns as the Fox Mill parents, yet moving Fox Mill won't do anything for them.

Nope.

Nobody voted against the purchase of KAA. Ten members voted for it. Two voted present: Moon and Meren.

Several alluded to the long commutes to Oakton at the meeting when the purchase was approved? Who are they? Give me the names.

Western HS is all about the relief for the overcrowded schools. Read the previous CIPs approved by the board. You won't find a single mention about the long distance from Crossfield to Oakton.

Distance and all other issues are just a secondary reason.

Nope. Do your own research.

The prior CIPs didn’t discuss a western high school for another decade or so, and the actual scenarios for Skyview just released highlight average commuting times.

Transportation times are also specifically mentioned as a relevant consideration in Policy 8130.

+1. OP doesn’t like the fact that the consultants found Oakton kids have some of the longest commutes of any kids in the county.

What does that have to do with the reasoning for the school being purchased? Of course, Oakton HS kids have some of the longest commutes in the county. Oakton HS has a dramatic western boundary because it is very close to multiple high schools.

Yet it has much longer commutes than Madison, Fairfax, and Woodson. Hmmm.

Those kids right next to Centreville High go to Fairfax. That is also a fairly long commute--but not as bad as Oakton or Langley, I think.

[Anonymous]

The May presentation by the consultants refers to transportation times at pp. 22, 30-31, 33, 37, 41-42, 53, and 58.

That’s a lot of references for something being discounted as largely irrelevant by self-interested posters here.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Follow up to my prev question - will FCPS move Franklin out of Region 5 now that it's going to primarily be an Oakton feeder (the majority of kids will go to Oakton).

It’s hard to say. Carson currently falls under the Oakton pyramid even though it sits well into Westfields’s boundaries and Crossfield is the only Oakton school that feeds to it. Seeing as every high school pyramid has at least one middle school, it would make sense for Carson to move to the Skyview pyramid and for Franklin to by reassigned to Oakton. However, logic has never been this district’s strong point, and I could see Oakton going without a middle school in their pyramid simply because Franklin is in Lees Corners’ boundaries.

They will have to move Franklin to being the Oakton MS since Carson is going to be Skyview. Meren actually tried to defend not turning Carson into a Skyview feeder because Carson was Oakton's MS at a meeting I attended.

What a joke that it was ever considered Oakton's middle school.

This area of western Fairfax has no cohesive pyramids. Franklin has been a split feeder forever. It used to be just Chantilly/Oakton. And, since Fox Mill went to SL, I'm pretty sure far more went to Westfield than Oakton or South Lakes.

We may get a cohesive pyramid with Skyview/Carson.

Prior to the 2008 boundary changes, FMES was at Oakton with Crossfield. I think part of Floris might have been at Oakton, but I am not certain. There was a larger percentage of Oakton HS kids at Carson before the 2008 changes, which is why Carson was Oakton's MS. The boundary shifts impacted that number and makes it head scratching that Carson is considered Oakton's MS.

When Carson was built, Floris was zoned to Oakton as were the other Carson feeders. Carson was designed/intended to be expanded into a secondary with athletic facilities on the KAA/Skyview property. At that point, the feeders would have simply switched from Oakton to Carson SS and a reasonable pyramid. Instead, they built Westfield larger than then permitted, redistricted Floris to Westfield, and, having totally messed up projections for Westfield's student population, immediately turned around and expanded Westfield rather than building out Carson.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So let me get this straight. Skyview was purchased to relieve capacity at Chantilly and Centreville and to reduce travel time for far flung Oakton students. Yet the leading scenario guts Westfield and South Lakes while leaving Chantilly, Centreville, and Oakton boundaries mostly untouched, save for the poor kids who are easier to shuffle around without a fight.

Not really.

The goal was always to relieve capacity at Chantilly, Centreville and Westfield.

Oakton and South Lakes were included in the boundary study because of their proximity to Skyview but they were not the main target. This point was clear from the beginning.

Chantilly is going to see a meaningful relief.

I do think they should move more Centreville kids to Westfield.

Incorrect. When the building was purchased FCPS and multiple school board members justified it by saying it would keep kids from having to go all the way from Herndon to Oakton HS. That was one of the main justifications.

This was not the justification from the Superintendent. Centreville and Chantilly overcrowding and the long distance from Floris to Westfield were the core issues to address with Skyview. Oakton and South Lakes were secondary concerns.

The Superintendent did not drive the decision to purchase KAA; School Board members did. And several of them - in particular, Frisch and McDaniel - highlighted the long commutes of students to Oakton. It was every bit as much part of the discussion as overcrowding at Chantilly. If anything, overcrowding at Centreville was a secondary concern, since there was already a plan to renovate and expand Centreville.

The board makes a decision not the superintendent.

But there are 12 board members. All of them were worried about the overcrowding in Western Fairfax.

Only two of the 12 expressed their concern about the bus ride. And I am pretty sure both will have no problem of voting for a scaneario where Crossfield stays at Oakton.

Actually, three of the then-12 board members voted against the KAA acquisition: Meren, Moon, and Sizemore-Heizer.

Of the remaining nine, some just went along with the purchase because they didn't think FCPS would be able to find a similar site again in the future. They didn't necessarily speak to current overcrowding in western Fairfax as a sufficient justification.

Several alluded to the long commutes to Oakton at the meeting when the purchase was approved. They may vote for a scenario where Crossfield stays at Oakton, but that probably speaks more to their desire to avoid controversy and move on than to do what objectively makes the most sense. Moving Fox Mill because more parents favor moving ought to invite scrutiny as to why families are wiling or eager to leave South Lakes, and not just be the reason to reassign Fox Mill. Others still at South Lakes may have the same concerns as the Fox Mill parents, yet moving Fox Mill won't do anything for them.

Nope.

Nobody voted against the purchase of KAA. Ten members voted for it. Two voted present: Moon and Meren.

Several alluded to the long commutes to Oakton at the meeting when the purchase was approved? Who are they? Give me the names.

Western HS is all about the relief for the overcrowded schools. Read the previous CIPs approved by the board. You won't find a single mention about the long distance from Crossfield to Oakton.

Distance and all other issues are just a secondary reason.

Nope. Do your own research.

The prior CIPs didn’t discuss a western high school for another decade or so, and the actual scenarios for Skyview just released highlight average commuting times.

Transportation times are also specifically mentioned as a relevant consideration in Policy 8130.

+1. OP doesn’t like the fact that the consultants found Oakton kids have some of the longest commutes of any kids in the county.

What does that have to do with the reasoning for the school being purchased? Of course, Oakton HS kids have some of the longest commutes in the county. Oakton HS has a dramatic western boundary because it is very close to multiple high schools.

Yet it has much longer commutes than Madison, Fairfax, and Woodson. Hmmm.

Really? Are you aware that Crossfield neighborhoods off of Fox Mill rd are essentially across from Madison zoned neighborhoods…Paradise Lane? Did you pay attention to the Flint Hill elementary school debate? How about some of the Woodson neighborhoods zoned to Oak View. Everyone at Crossfield does not live in Franklin Farm. That wasn’t quite the rebuttal you thought it was.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The May presentation by the consultants refers to transportation times at pp. 22, 30-31, 33, 37, 41-42, 53, and 58.

That’s a lot of references for something being discounted as largely irrelevant by self-interested posters here.

And those references did nothing to impact the last two scenarios.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Follow up to my prev question - will FCPS move Franklin out of Region 5 now that it's going to primarily be an Oakton feeder (the majority of kids will go to Oakton).

It’s hard to say. Carson currently falls under the Oakton pyramid even though it sits well into Westfields’s boundaries and Crossfield is the only Oakton school that feeds to it. Seeing as every high school pyramid has at least one middle school, it would make sense for Carson to move to the Skyview pyramid and for Franklin to by reassigned to Oakton. However, logic has never been this district’s strong point, and I could see Oakton going without a middle school in their pyramid simply because Franklin is in Lees Corners’ boundaries.

They will have to move Franklin to being the Oakton MS since Carson is going to be Skyview. Meren actually tried to defend not turning Carson into a Skyview feeder because Carson was Oakton's MS at a meeting I attended.

What a joke that it was ever considered Oakton's middle school.

This area of western Fairfax has no cohesive pyramids. Franklin has been a split feeder forever. It used to be just Chantilly/Oakton. And, since Fox Mill went to SL, I'm pretty sure far more went to Westfield than Oakton or South Lakes.

We may get a cohesive pyramid with Skyview/Carson.

Prior to the 2008 boundary changes, FMES was at Oakton with Crossfield. I think part of Floris might have been at Oakton, but I am not certain. There was a larger percentage of Oakton HS kids at Carson before the 2008 changes, which is why Carson was Oakton's MS. The boundary shifts impacted that number and makes it head scratching that Carson is considered Oakton's MS.

When Carson was built, Floris was zoned to Oakton as were the other Carson feeders. Carson was designed/intended to be expanded into a secondary with athletic facilities on the KAA/Skyview property. At that point, the feeders would have simply switched from Oakton to Carson SS and a reasonable pyramid. Instead, they built Westfield larger than then permitted, redistricted Floris to Westfield, and, having totally messed up projections for Westfield's student population, immediately turned around and expanded Westfield rather than building out Carson.

It raises an interesting question as to whether FCPS should be working with its existing capacity or adding capacity to atone for past decisions that weren’t ideal.

You can see both points of view being implicitly expressed when it comes to Westfield. You have posters saying Skyview will serve kids who never should have been assigned to Westfield and others arguing Westfield should be maintained above 85% of its very large capacity.

I do know that, if we say FCPS should add capacity to make amends for bad decisions in the past, there are other areas where they should be adding capacity rather than just changing boundaries.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The May presentation by the consultants refers to transportation times at pp. 22, 30-31, 33, 37, 41-42, 53, and 58.

That’s a lot of references for something being discounted as largely irrelevant by self-interested posters here.

And those references did nothing to impact the last two scenarios.

Is that a good thing or a flaw? It doesn’t sound like it’s good to acknowledge relevant considerations expressly referred to in an official School Board policy and then ignore them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The May presentation by the consultants refers to transportation times at pp. 22, 30-31, 33, 37, 41-42, 53, and 58.

That’s a lot of references for something being discounted as largely irrelevant by self-interested posters here.

And those references did nothing to impact the last two scenarios.

Is that a good thing or a flaw? It doesn’t sound like it’s good to acknowledge relevant considerations expressly referred to in an official School Board policy and then ignore them.

Dp. Neither. Not all considerations have to carry the day, but I suspect you know that already.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The May presentation by the consultants refers to transportation times at pp. 22, 30-31, 33, 37, 41-42, 53, and 58.

That’s a lot of references for something being discounted as largely irrelevant by self-interested posters here.

And those references did nothing to impact the last two scenarios.

Is that a good thing or a flaw? It doesn’t sound like it’s good to acknowledge relevant considerations expressly referred to in an official School Board policy and then ignore them.

Dp. Neither. Not all considerations have to carry the day, but I suspect you know that already.

It’s more like a flex that the relevant factors only get lip service if necessary to appease the noisiest people with the most money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The May presentation by the consultants refers to transportation times at pp. 22, 30-31, 33, 37, 41-42, 53, and 58.

That’s a lot of references for something being discounted as largely irrelevant by self-interested posters here.

And those references did nothing to impact the last two scenarios.

Is that a good thing or a flaw? It doesn’t sound like it’s good to acknowledge relevant considerations expressly referred to in an official School Board policy and then ignore them.

Until they produce a tangible benefit for reducing transportation times — like a budget neutral fix to school start times, this pillar of 8130 is never going to gain much traction. Most families with long bus rides knowingly bought into the situation because they wanted to attend certain pyramids. Therefore, they will fight back against any change while those in favor of reducing transportation times are advocating to move other peoples’ kids with no quantifiable gain.

“Studies say…” isn’t going to sway the county at large.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The May presentation by the consultants refers to transportation times at pp. 22, 30-31, 33, 37, 41-42, 53, and 58.

That’s a lot of references for something being discounted as largely irrelevant by self-interested posters here.

And those references did nothing to impact the last two scenarios.

Is that a good thing or a flaw? It doesn’t sound like it’s good to acknowledge relevant considerations expressly referred to in an official School Board policy and then ignore them.

Until they produce a tangible benefit for reducing transportation times — like a budget neutral fix to school start times, this pillar of 8130 is never going to gain much traction. Most families with long bus rides knowingly bought into the situation because they wanted to attend certain pyramids. Therefore, they will fight back against any change while those in favor of reducing transportation times are advocating to move other peoples’ kids with no quantifiable gain.

“Studies say…” isn’t going to sway the county at large.

They could make a greater effort to quantify the potential savings from shorter transportation times, but then they might really have to do something about it. They would not have included transportation times as one of the four main considerations in Policy 8130 unless they had at least a working hypothesis that reducing transportation times is desirable.

As things now stand, they aren't doing much about long commutes and in some recent instances have even increased them. Whether they admit or not, the lack of any consistently applied framework for establishing or revising boundaries undermines the credibility of Reid and the School Board, as they simply appear to accede to the wishes of those with the loudest voices and most money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Follow up to my prev question - will FCPS move Franklin out of Region 5 now that it's going to primarily be an Oakton feeder (the majority of kids will go to Oakton).

It’s hard to say. Carson currently falls under the Oakton pyramid even though it sits well into Westfields’s boundaries and Crossfield is the only Oakton school that feeds to it. Seeing as every high school pyramid has at least one middle school, it would make sense for Carson to move to the Skyview pyramid and for Franklin to by reassigned to Oakton. However, logic has never been this district’s strong point, and I could see Oakton going without a middle school in their pyramid simply because Franklin is in Lees Corners’ boundaries.

They will have to move Franklin to being the Oakton MS since Carson is going to be Skyview. Meren actually tried to defend not turning Carson into a Skyview feeder because Carson was Oakton's MS at a meeting I attended.

What a joke that it was ever considered Oakton's middle school.

This area of western Fairfax has no cohesive pyramids. Franklin has been a split feeder forever. It used to be just Chantilly/Oakton. And, since Fox Mill went to SL, I'm pretty sure far more went to Westfield than Oakton or South Lakes.

We may get a cohesive pyramid with Skyview/Carson.

Prior to the 2008 boundary changes, FMES was at Oakton with Crossfield. I think part of Floris might have been at Oakton, but I am not certain. There was a larger percentage of Oakton HS kids at Carson before the 2008 changes, which is why Carson was Oakton's MS. The boundary shifts impacted that number and makes it head scratching that Carson is considered Oakton's MS.

When Carson was built, Floris was zoned to Oakton as were the other Carson feeders. Carson was designed/intended to be expanded into a secondary with athletic facilities on the KAA/Skyview property. At that point, the feeders would have simply switched from Oakton to Carson SS and a reasonable pyramid. Instead, they built Westfield larger than then permitted, redistricted Floris to Westfield, and, having totally messed up projections for Westfield's student population, immediately turned around and expanded Westfield rather than building out Carson.

I am a parent pf kids who have long ago graduated. I live in the Skyview area. My neighborhood went through the boundary study for Carson, Westfield, and South Lakes. While it would have made sense, I do not recall ever hearing anything about a Carson Secondary school. Carson and Westfield were completed at around the same time. Maybe a year or so apart.
The first I heard that we had the property for a local high school was when FCPS sold the property to the Saudis more than ten years ago. That never should have happened.

This area should never have been sent to Westfield. But, Westfield was well regarded in its early years. Good administration makes a difference.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a Crossfield parent being moved to Franklin, I would like to know what other elementary schools feed to Franklin. Is it just Waples and Navy that go to Oakton? What other elementary schools and where do they feed? Chantilly I assume?

Lees Corner and the Chantilly portion of Navy still remain as Franklin feeders.

I think Brookfield also feeds into Franklin.

Part of Brookfield currently does feed into Franklin, but it looks like they are planning to move Brookfield to only Rocky Run.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Seema Dixit doesn't seem to consider the Westfield community as her constituents.

Oh well. She'll remember when she's sniveling around trying to get reelected.

I think she was only voted in because a huge portion of Sully is Indian.

And almost all the Indian families zoned to Westfield are being moved to Skyview.

Having attended many of the Skyview opt-in meetings, there are a lot of Indian families that opted in. I would guess that those families and schools are sending emails and communication to their elected leaders that they want to move to Skyview. And if I am an elected official and so many people are complaining aboutmoving, I would prioritize the groups that are in the boundary range and who are asking to move and are excited to move. Let the groups that are fighting move stay were they are, move the groups that want to move, and secure a bunch of votes for the next election.

Meren is in a hard place because she has constituients that want to move and others that fear losing the people who want to move. If she fights Fox Mill and Floris moving, she loses those votes. If she doesn't, she is in danger of losing SLHS families votes. If she puts up enough feelers and tries to gather information to show that she was in a rock and a hard place, she might save herself some votes from the side that is disappointed. I know FMES families that won't vote for her if FMES doesn't move, I am less certain that there are people from SLHS that would say the same.

Both Floris and McNair have large Indian populations. Both of those are guaranteed to go to Skyview, no wonder people opted their kids in!