Cops in TX tackle & block desperate parents, while they let shooter rampage thru the school

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:You know what would have made this less likely to happen? Age limits on guns. This is out of control. Teenagers should not be allowed to buy these weapons.

18 year olds who serve this country have guns placed in their hands. Minimum age to be a police officer is 18-21, depending on the state.

Those 18 year olds have extensive training drilled into them.

If you don't agree with age limits, do you think we should require 6 months of training before purchasing a gun? For everyone?

Not only that! They have to undergo background checks to get into service in e first place. I’m fine using that standard! If an 18 year old wants a gun he should be able to get security clearance first

This 18 year old had a background check. Sadly, he passed.

Why wouldn't he have passed? 18-year-olds have clear records that are sealed from juvenile offenses which starts the day they turn 18. He waited and he pounced. Stupidity.

EXACTLY! Do you not see the problem with expunging records of ALL people when they turn 18? Do you really want those 13/14/15 year olds who kill others in carjackings back on the street with clear records in 3-5 years?

Interesting that you bring up the majority black children doing single-vehicle carjacking. The majority not fatal. Meanwhile 95% of MASS shooters are white and white teen males at that. So maybe focus on the kids and men killing 20-80 people at once (take your pick). Also ask why their communities aren't advocating to jail these mentally-deranged teens and/or their parents who buy them $5,000 assault weapons for their birthdays.

Do you think most teen carjackers are black? Wow, pretty racist. I said nothing about race.

Oh please we all know you're the first one to throw up a thread on a carjacking. So tell us what do you want to do with the all-white mass shooter problem? Please. I want an answer. For kids terrified to go to school or the movie theater or the grocery store or a church service or a music festival.

[…]

When I was in Atlanta, there was a Kroger dubbed 'the murder Krogers'. […]

The problem is the guns, the easy proliferation, their ubiquity. The answer is not “more guns,” the answer is “fewer guns.” You people.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Kids should not go to school in a prison. That’s completely f**ked up. Who are you monsters?!


Ban guns! It’s so easy to fix.

+1

As someone who taught in a school that was fashioned like a prison I 100% agree. That does something to a child’s psyche that I would not want children to experience. Stop putting all of our burdens on our most vulnerable population. Adults don’t seem to want to make change or sacrifice anything for children.

Make those changes, but they take time. But in the meantime? Save the children. The door, according to MSN who referenced video, was left propped open. Teacher went out, got his/her phone to call authorities after the shooter crashed his truck and shot at funeral home personnel, went back in and sadly didn't shut the door. Not his/her fault, just an unfortunate circumstance.

Just think if he didn’t have a gun, we wouldn’t be having this discussion and burying a bunch of children.

If the teacher had a weapon in his/her car, got that instead of just a cell phone, shut the door and stood on the inside, or if there wa s an armed resource officer inside, it could have been different too.

We can both play the wish it was game. But that won't change a thing tomorrow. Again, even if there was a massive ban and buyback program, that takes time. There are things that can be changed today to protect kids tomorrow

How do you feel about "proper perimeter fences" that are "intended to deter"? Big fan?

I think anything you do to slow down someone is helpful. Ted Bundy got Kimberly Leach on school grounds. He would have had a hard time climbing a locked fence with a child in tow.

The gunman climbed an 8' fence to get in.

The police had a lot of time to act. They chose not to.

I'm confused. There were police inside the school area and outside the school area and not one of them shot a guy with a gun climbing the fence right in front of them? Or did he take off and they could not find him fast enough?

What about the door that was left propped open? Not a problem re: security?

They were 3-7 there almost immediately after he entered. He fired in their general direction and they ran away. 19 of them then waited 40 minutes in a hallway and told to stand down. Eventually the border patrol guys arrived and after 20 minutes arguing with the Uvalde police they decided to go in themselves.

Response time was not a problem. They had it. They were there.

At the school, agree. I mean after the truck crashed and before he breached the fence and entered through the open door.

It took him at least 12 minutes to get inside the building. He shot at people outside too. The police station is 1.5 miles away. The 911 calls started within 2 minutes of the crash. A patrol car drove past him.

Only two things could have prevented this. Banning AR-15s or having uncowardly cops. Lower capacity magazines and ammo purchase limits would have helped reduce the death toll.

There’s an old joke “why do you carry a gun?” Answer: “Because a policeman is too heavy.” Response time can be dreadful. Even if they are there in a timely matter, it often still is too late. Again, the door was left wide open AFTER someone saw the guy shooting across the street. Once he got in, sadly, he controlled the scene. You and I don’t know whether or not an armed resource officer or a few volunteer armed teachers would have made a difference. It sure would have helped change the trajectory though, because the perp would be engaged with those individual(s). We’ve seen this again and again, most recently in Charlestown WV, where a woman killed a man with her hand gun who opened fire on a party with his AR-15. He’s the only one who was hit and died. There are many other instances in the news. When you want to take ALL guns away, you won’t get ALL guns. And there lies the problem.

But we haven't been taking guns away. We let the assault weapons ban expire, and mass shooting deaths have increased. Uvalde is the type of place where a lot of people already have guns. A lot of good that did

Was the school a gun-free zone?

No.

Apparently it was:

"Robb Elementary is among most Texas schools subject to the Federal Gun-Free Zone Act, which prohibits concealed carry on the premises, according to the school's own rules and codes of conduct."

Lots of exceptions to that in Texas. Anyone who’s licensed can carry. https://www.tasb.org/services/legal-services/tasb-school-law-esource/business/documents/firearms_on_dist_property.pdf

Uvalde and Robb Elementary was not one of them:

‘While about 30% of school districts in Texas 2020 had armed teachers and staff, unfortunately, the Robb Elementary School in the Uvalde, Texas CISD doesn’t appear to be one of them. There are no provisions in their regulations for teachers or staff to carry.’

“ https://pol.tasb.org/Policy/Download/1177?filename=GKA(LEGAL).pdf”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:You know what would have made this less likely to happen? Age limits on guns. This is out of control. Teenagers should not be allowed to buy these weapons.

18 year olds who serve this country have guns placed in their hands. Minimum age to be a police officer is 18-21, depending on the state.

Those 18 year olds have extensive training drilled into them.

If you don't agree with age limits, do you think we should require 6 months of training before purchasing a gun? For everyone?

Not only that! They have to undergo background checks to get into service in e first place. I’m fine using that standard! If an 18 year old wants a gun he should be able to get security clearance first

This 18 year old had a background check. Sadly, he passed.

Why wouldn't he have passed? 18-year-olds have clear records that are sealed from juvenile offenses which starts the day they turn 18. He waited and he pounced. Stupidity.

EXACTLY! Do you not see the problem with expunging records of ALL people when they turn 18? Do you really want those 13/14/15 year olds who kill others in carjackings back on the street with clear records in 3-5 years?

Interesting that you bring up the majority black children doing single-vehicle carjacking. The majority not fatal. Meanwhile 95% of MASS shooters are white and white teen males at that. So maybe focus on the kids and men killing 20-80 people at once (take your pick). Also ask why their communities aren't advocating to jail these mentally-deranged teens and/or their parents who buy them $5,000 assault weapons for their birthdays.

Do you think most teen carjackers are black? Wow, pretty racist. I said nothing about race.

Oh please we all know you're the first one to throw up a thread on a carjacking. So tell us what do you want to do with the all-white mass shooter problem? Please. I want an answer. For kids terrified to go to school or the movie theater or the grocery store or a church service or a music festival.

[…]

When I was in Atlanta, there was a Kroger dubbed 'the murder Krogers'. […]

The problem is the guns, the easy proliferation, their ubiquity. The answer is not “more guns,” the answer is “fewer guns.” You people.

Great long range goal. What about tomorrow? Next week?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sounds like there is only one solution: let teachers and administrators pack heat.

It wouldn’t have helped in this case. The shooter had the element of surprise - he was at the door when the teacher went to lock it and then he shot out the window in the door. When would the teacher have had time to retrieve a firearm? She was dead within a second or two.

Stop it with these dumb fantasies. The gunmen always have the advantage of surprise. Look at the Navy Yard massacre - the gunmen killed the two armed guards at the gatehouse.

[Anonymous]

Oh the poor poor investigators who have to answer questions about how they keep lying about this.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You know what would have made this less likely to happen? Age limits on guns. This is out of control. Teenagers should not be allowed to buy these weapons.

18 year olds who serve this country have guns placed in their hands. Minimum age to be a police officer is 18-21, depending on the state.

Those 18 year olds have extensive training drilled into them.

If you don't agree with age limits, do you think we should require 6 months of training before purchasing a gun? For everyone?

Not only that! They have to undergo background checks to get into service in e first place. I’m fine using that standard! If an 18 year old wants a gun he should be able to get security clearance first

This 18 year old had a background check. Sadly, he passed.

Why wouldn't he have passed? 18-year-olds have clear records that are sealed from juvenile offenses which starts the day they turn 18. He waited and he pounced. Stupidity.

EXACTLY! Do you not see the problem with expunging records of ALL people when they turn 18? Do you really want those 13/14/15 year olds who kill others in carjackings back on the street with clear records in 3-5 years?

Interesting that you bring up the majority black children doing single-vehicle carjacking. The majority not fatal. Meanwhile 95% of MASS shooters are white and white teen males at that. So maybe focus on the kids and men killing 20-80 people at once (take your pick). Also ask why their communities aren't advocating to jail these mentally-deranged teens and/or their parents who buy them $5,000 assault weapons for their birthdays.

Do you think most teen carjackers are black? Wow, pretty racist. I said nothing about race.

Oh please we all know you're the first one to throw up a thread on a carjacking. So tell us what do you want to do with the all-white mass shooter problem? Please. I want an answer. For kids terrified to go to school or the movie theater or the grocery store or a church service or a music festival.

[…]

When I was in Atlanta, there was a Kroger dubbed 'the murder Krogers'. […]

The problem is the guns, the easy proliferation, their ubiquity. The answer is not “more guns,” the answer is “fewer guns.” You people.

Great long range goal. What about tomorrow? Next week?

We can be well on the way to getting rid some of these weapons and ammunition by November is we vote to give some power to people that will enact the people's will instead of the gun industry's will.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sounds like there is only one solution: let teachers and administrators pack heat.

It wouldn’t have helped in this case. The shooter had the element of surprise - he was at the door when the teacher went to lock it and then he shot out the window in the door. When would the teacher have had time to retrieve a firearm? She was dead within a second or two.

Stop it with these dumb fantasies. The gunmen always have the advantage of surprise. Look at the Navy Yard massacre - the gunmen killed the two armed guards at the gatehouse.

Video shows he went into the main school building through a propped open door. In this case, he was already shooting across the street so there was no element of surprise. She had time to get her phone. No criticism of her, just correcting your post re: timeline.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You know what would have made this less likely to happen? Age limits on guns. This is out of control. Teenagers should not be allowed to buy these weapons.

18 year olds who serve this country have guns placed in their hands. Minimum age to be a police officer is 18-21, depending on the state.

Those 18 year olds have extensive training drilled into them.

If you don't agree with age limits, do you think we should require 6 months of training before purchasing a gun? For everyone?

Not only that! They have to undergo background checks to get into service in e first place. I’m fine using that standard! If an 18 year old wants a gun he should be able to get security clearance first

This 18 year old had a background check. Sadly, he passed.

Why wouldn't he have passed? 18-year-olds have clear records that are sealed from juvenile offenses which starts the day they turn 18. He waited and he pounced. Stupidity.

EXACTLY! Do you not see the problem with expunging records of ALL people when they turn 18? Do you really want those 13/14/15 year olds who kill others in carjackings back on the street with clear records in 3-5 years?

Interesting that you bring up the majority black children doing single-vehicle carjacking. The majority not fatal. Meanwhile 95% of MASS shooters are white and white teen males at that. So maybe focus on the kids and men killing 20-80 people at once (take your pick). Also ask why their communities aren't advocating to jail these mentally-deranged teens and/or their parents who buy them $5,000 assault weapons for their birthdays.

Do you think most teen carjackers are black? Wow, pretty racist. I said nothing about race.

Oh please we all know you're the first one to throw up a thread on a carjacking. So tell us what do you want to do with the all-white mass shooter problem? Please. I want an answer. For kids terrified to go to school or the movie theater or the grocery store or a church service or a music festival.

[…]

When I was in Atlanta, there was a Kroger dubbed 'the murder Krogers'. […]

The problem is the guns, the easy proliferation, their ubiquity. The answer is not “more guns,” the answer is “fewer guns.” You people.

Great long range goal. What about tomorrow? Next week?

We can be well on the way to getting rid some of these weapons and ammunition by November is we vote to give some power to people that will enact the people's will instead of the gun industry's will.

+1
Assault weapons, for example, should just be gone. There’s no reason why we should be beholden to the wacky desires of a few perverted people and the corporations that make money off them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You know what would have made this less likely to happen? Age limits on guns. This is out of control. Teenagers should not be allowed to buy these weapons.

18 year olds who serve this country have guns placed in their hands. Minimum age to be a police officer is 18-21, depending on the state.

Those 18 year olds have extensive training drilled into them.

If you don't agree with age limits, do you think we should require 6 months of training before purchasing a gun? For everyone?

Not only that! They have to undergo background checks to get into service in e first place. I’m fine using that standard! If an 18 year old wants a gun he should be able to get security clearance first

This 18 year old had a background check. Sadly, he passed.

Why wouldn't he have passed? 18-year-olds have clear records that are sealed from juvenile offenses which starts the day they turn 18. He waited and he pounced. Stupidity.

EXACTLY. Do we really want the records sealed of cold blooded killers and crazies just because they hit a magic age?

The kid didn't have a record...neither did the shooters of Majory Stoneman Douglas or Sandy Hook or Las Vegas Mandalay Bay or Isla Vista or Charleston.

What EXACTLY do you plan to do to combat these teen boys with with no state or federal prison records, no prior arrests, and not even a parking ticket that are snapping and getting weapons of mass war from parents or grandparents?

The kid had an extensive history, including threats. So did the Douglas shooter and the Sandy Hook shooter. The one thing they had in common was the school system let their history go unpunished. The kids who knew these young adults were very vocal about that. We don't know ANYTHING about the Vegas shooter, certainly less than we knew about Rittenhouse. Why would that be? Charleston guy was also a known nutter. Regarding the Isla sister shooter:

Before driving to the sorority house, Rodger uploaded a video to YouTube titled "Elliot Rodger's Retribution", in which he outlined his planned attack and his motives. He explained that he wanted to punish women for rejecting him, and sexually active men because he envied them. He also emailed a lengthy autobiographical manuscript to acquaintances, his therapist, and family members; the document appeared on the Internet and became widely known as his manifesto. In it, he described his childhood, family conflicts, frustration over his inability to find a girlfriend, his hatred of women, his contempt for couples (particularly interracial couples) and his plans for what he described as "retribution".


So yeah, there were extensive warnings in all these situations except Vegas, and I'd say that's because he was old enough to know how to cover his tracks well.

Again SCHOOL THREATS are not a county, state or federal record. Go on any thread in Fairfax or MCPS and ask them if you should report a bullying incident to the police and those parents will shout you down. They do not want their precious kids to be brought to the attention of the law.

That is what happened here. Even ISS or OSS are not a record. It does not allow law enforcement to keep an eye on you, prevent you from purchases guns or weapons, or even keep you out of public service buildings.

What do you not understand?

Actually, as we've seen, often parents are unaware because the schools and school boards are hiding serious incidents from parents.

School boards aren't hiding anything when it comes to threats, assaults, and weapons on school grounds. Do you not remember that the parents of Ethan Crumbley were called into the administrative offices and ASKED to take their kid home hours before he shot his classmates? They point blank refused because let me check...they had horseback riding lessons.

Respect the rights of school shooters. They are Americans, too. Republicans must stand strong on this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sounds like there is only one solution: let teachers and administrators pack heat.

It wouldn’t have helped in this case. The shooter had the element of surprise - he was at the door when the teacher went to lock it and then he shot out the window in the door. When would the teacher have had time to retrieve a firearm? She was dead within a second or two.

Stop it with these dumb fantasies. The gunmen always have the advantage of surprise. Look at the Navy Yard massacre - the gunmen killed the two armed guards at the gatehouse.

Video shows he went into the main school building through a propped open door. In this case, he was already shooting across the street so there was no element of surprise. She had time to get her phone. No criticism of her, just correcting your post re: timeline.[/quote

What the hell kind of teacher is gong to be willing to carry a gun in a class full of children? My god. You people are truly insane. This is the US, not some hell hole of a country without law and order, and roaming militias. Or at least it used to be. I’m not sure where I live anymore.

Gun reform, now. Licensure, age limits, liability insurance, ban advertising, bring back the assault weapons ban, and for God’s sake stop voting for politicians that think posing with guns is cute.

[Anonymous]

San Francisco Giants manager: 'I don't plan on coming out for the anthem'

https://www.cnn.com/2022/05/27/sport/gabe-kapler-uvalde-national-anthem/index.html

San Francisco Giants manager Gabe Kapler told reporters ahead of his team's Friday game against the Cincinnati Reds that he intends to forgo the pregame US national anthem moving forward.

The 2021 National League Manager of the Year's comments were accompanied by a written statement on his website sharing his thoughts after 19 children and two adults were killed at Robb Elementary School in Uvalde, Texas, by a lone, 18-year-old gunman.

The police on the scene put a mother in handcuffs as she begged them to go in and save her children. They blocked parents trying to organize to charge in to stop the shooter, including a father who learned his daughter was murdered while he argued with the cops. We aren't free when politicians decide that the lobbyist and gun industries are more important than our children's freedom to go to school without needing bulletproof backpacks and active shooter drills," Kapler wrote.

And Remember: Vote Republican for More Mass Shootings!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:San Francisco Giants manager: 'I don't plan on coming out for the anthem'

https://www.cnn.com/2022/05/27/sport/gabe-kapler-uvalde-national-anthem/index.html

San Francisco Giants manager Gabe Kapler told reporters ahead of his team's Friday game against the Cincinnati Reds that he intends to forgo the pregame US national anthem moving forward.

The 2021 National League Manager of the Year's comments were accompanied by a written statement on his website sharing his thoughts after 19 children and two adults were killed at Robb Elementary School in Uvalde, Texas, by a lone, 18-year-old gunman.

The police on the scene put a mother in handcuffs as she begged them to go in and save her children. They blocked parents trying to organize to charge in to stop the shooter, including a father who learned his daughter was murdered while he argued with the cops. We aren't free when politicians decide that the lobbyist and gun industries are more important than our children's freedom to go to school without needing bulletproof backpacks and active shooter drills," Kapler wrote.

And Remember: Vote Republican for More Mass Shootings!

Good.

It’s going to take high-profile people and their money to make a change. Thanks to the GOP, our government is dysfunctional now and can’t get anything done.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sounds like there is only one solution: let teachers and administrators pack heat.

It wouldn’t have helped in this case. The shooter had the element of surprise - he was at the door when the teacher went to lock it and then he shot out the window in the door. When would the teacher have had time to retrieve a firearm? She was dead within a second or two.

Stop it with these dumb fantasies. The gunmen always have the advantage of surprise. Look at the Navy Yard massacre - the gunmen killed the two armed guards at the gatehouse.

Video shows he went into the main school building through a propped open door. In this case, he was already shooting across the street so there was no element of surprise. She had time to get her phone. No criticism of her, just correcting your post re: timeline.

You're both right and wrong. I believe they were two different incidents since both were talked about in the same briefing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sounds like there is only one solution: let teachers and administrators pack heat.

It wouldn’t have helped in this case. The shooter had the element of surprise - he was at the door when the teacher went to lock it and then he shot out the window in the door. When would the teacher have had time to retrieve a firearm? She was dead within a second or two.

Stop it with these dumb fantasies. The gunmen always have the advantage of surprise. Look at the Navy Yard massacre - the gunmen killed the two armed guards at the gatehouse.

Video shows he went into the main school building through a propped open door. In this case, he was already shooting across the street so there was no element of surprise. She had time to get her phone. No criticism of her, just correcting your post re: timeline.

You're both right and wrong. I believe they were two different incidents since both were talked about in the same briefing.

It’s all very confusing. Why was the door propped open?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sounds like there is only one solution: let teachers and administrators pack heat.

It wouldn’t have helped in this case. The shooter had the element of surprise - he was at the door when the teacher went to lock it and then he shot out the window in the door. When would the teacher have had time to retrieve a firearm? She was dead within a second or two.

Stop it with these dumb fantasies. The gunmen always have the advantage of surprise. Look at the Navy Yard massacre - the gunmen killed the two armed guards at the gatehouse.

Video shows he went into the main school building through a propped open door. In this case, he was already shooting across the street so there was no element of surprise. She had time to get her phone. No criticism of her, just correcting your post re: timeline.

You're both right and wrong. I believe they were two different incidents since both were talked about in the same briefing.

It’s all very confusing. Why was the door propped open?

I don’t get why people think a regular locked door is going to prevent a determined shooter with an AR15 out of a building with windows and multiple entrances. We’re not talking about reinforced steel doors and bank vaults or panic rooms. And his gun can shoot through doors, blows up organs like watermelons hit by sledgehammers. I know seconds save lives, but let’s not pretend locking the front door is going to buy more than seconds.

Also, there was an interview with a parent of a student at that school whose child had a substitute teacher that day. The teacher didn’t have a key to lock her classroom door. Not only do their doors apparently have to be locked with a key, the teacher in charge of keeping kids alive and shooters out didn’t have a key to even try to keep them safe. So quite literally, if he hadn’t gotten in that door, he wouldn’t have even had to shoot out a door, some doors couldn’t have been locked.