Kobe Bryant killed in helicopter crash (per TMZ)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I cannot believe you all (on both sides) are STILL arguing about this. What a waste of a good thread.

I remember being disturbed by the rape case, and I think it's important to discuss-- but the man has died an horrific death along with three other families, including three children and one of them his own.
I won't doubt someone who said that they were raped, but she did settle, and he all but admitted that he didn't really know (and it seemed while it was happening, didn't care) if it was consensual or not.
To me, it's over, the book is closed--he died young and in the worst way I can imagine.

[Anonymous]

His apology was basically "Sorry if you think I raped you" which is the worst. I don't know many women who on a random hookup enjoy being bent over and choked. Jesus it was violent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
www.msnbc.com/news/942322...=SA01#BODY

Kobe’s accuser ‘bragged’ at party
Alleged victim in good mood days before charges filed, host says; another saw ‘visible evidence’ of attack


NBCSPORTS.COM NEWS SERVICES

EAGLE, Colo., July 22 — The 19-year-old woman who accused Kobe Bryant of sexually assaulting her attended a party just days before charges were filed against Bryant and appeared to be in a good mood and “bragging” about the incident, several teen-agers at the party told NBC News on Tuesday. Another friend told the Associated Press that the woman had “visible evidence” of the alleged attack a week later.

THE ALLEGED VICTIM was at a party three days before the charges were filed and appeared to be in a good mood, NBC News reported, citing five party attendees.

“She was bragging about it,” party host Steve Evancho told NBC News.

The victim described Bryant’s anatomy when asked about it at the party, the host said.

Another friend gave a different impression of the victim, saying she was still “shaken up” by what happened.

Luke Bray declined to be more specific out of respect for his friend and her family.

“There is visible evidence of what happened,” he said.

Eagle County sheriff’s spokeswoman Kim Andree declined comment on NBC’s report and Bray’s statement. Neither prosecutor Mark Hurlbert nor Bryant’s attorneys returned telephone messages seeking comment.

Hurlbert has said he believes he has enough physical and testimonial evidence to prove the case beyond a reasonable doubt.

The 24-year-old Bryant was charged with one count of sexually assaulting the concierge at an exclusive mountain resort last month. He said the sex was consensual and that he only committed adultery.

The Los Angeles Lakers star is free on bond pending an Aug. 6 court hearing during which he will be formally advised of the charge against him.

An Eagle County district judge has sealed most do ents, including the arrest affidavit, details of the physical evidence and other information. The Denver Post, the Los Angeles Times, NBC and the Vail Daily have asked a district judge to release some of the material.

Bryant’s attorneys filed a 23-page brief objecting to the release of any do ents, the Times reported Tuesday. Bryant’s attorneys don’t want any negative information regarding him to be released to the media, fearing it would effect the trial, the Times reported.

Lawyers for the Vail Daily and the alleged victim filed written arguments Tuesday in the newspaper’s request for police reports it believes are related to the woman. Hurlbert may file his own brief, spokeswoman Krista Flannigan said.

The alleged victim is a college student who took a summer job at the Lodge & Spa at the Cordillera in nearby Edwards. Friends say she is an energetic former cheerleader known for her love of music. She once tried out for the television program, “American Idol.”

Bray, 21, said he saw the woman about a week after the alleged assault on June 30. “She was still shaken up. She was pretty much in denial,” he said. “She couldn’t believe it.”

He said the woman was also at his house Friday to watch news conferences where Hurlbert announced the charges and Bryant admitted adultery and apologized to his wife.

“She couldn’t believe that his wife was sitting there and apparently didn’t care about adultery,” Bray said.

Sara Dabner, 17, who sang in the Eagle County High School choir with the woman, asked: “Why would a woman put herself through all of this - having people call her names? I think she just wants to see justice done. She’s not trying to drag him through the dirt.”

The woman was named on Tuesday by a nationally syndicated talk-show host and on the Internet despite pleas for privacy from her family.

Rape counselors and mental health experts were outraged by the exposure of the young Colorado woman, saying that a victim of sexual assault would be further traumatized by public scrutiny.

“That’s like being raped again,” if her accusations against Bryant are true, said Dr. Patricia Saunders, director of Graham Windham Manhattan Medical Center in New York City. “It’s an intrusion. It’s an utter violation of her right to privacy. It’s a sadistic thing to do.”

News organizations, which typically have policies against naming sexual assault victims, have not identified the woman. But her name, address, telephone number and possibly her picture have surfaced on the Internet.

Meanwhile Tom Leykis, host of a radio talk-show based in Los Angeles and aimed mostly at young men, began using her name on the air and told Reuters that he has no plans to stop.

“We’re told that rape is violence, not sex, and if that’s true there’s no reason she should feel shame or embarrassment,” Leykis said, adding that he felt it unfair to name Bryant but not his accuser.

The talk-show host, who is heard on 60 stations across the country, also said he did not believe the woman’s claims. He said he believes the woman was seeking attention and money and that Bryant could be the “real victim” in the case.


The Associated Press and Reuters contributed to this report.

I can’t believe I’m continuing to argue with a troll, but there is no such thing as nbcsports.com news services.

Well, yeah...because this article is from July 2003...

. Funny how zillions of other 2003 articles about the rape show up, though.

Please post them with the links to their original sources. Remember you said zillions. Thanks.

The media scrubbed the original links.

Regardless, those articles still existed. Many other sources cite the same information

https://wendyista.blogspot.com/2009/06/kobe-bryants-alleged-rape-victim.html?m=1

Besides, if the woman really was bragging, I’m sorry but, why would one brag about being raped??

And “if” she wasn’t raped, then that means she’s okay, right? Don’t you want her to not be harmed? Isn’t it a good thing that she wasn’t raped?

I know the article existed. It was pretty common knowledge at the time. That poster is just being ridiculous and now employing a standard of scrutiny to MSCBC that they would NEVER do if the article in question fit their narrative.

[Anonymous]

If the woman had not been so bloodied and injured, this would have been a case of he said/she said. Thankfully, her injuries were significant and horrific enough that he would have been convicted of rape and had to settle.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:His apology was basically "Sorry if you think I raped you" which is the worst. I don't know many women who on a random hookup enjoy being bent over and choked. Jesus it was violent.

Your sex life must be boring. People are into all kinds of stuff and choking is really not that exotic.

The standard for consent has shifted since then. This has been stated repeatedly in this thread. He was a brash, young athlete that was probably not used to being told no and was probably used to being in complete control in his sexual encounters. He asked if he could release on her face. He stopped when she said no. She bragged about it afterward. This is a murky encounter at best.

Why wouldn't it be appropriate to conclude that there were mixed understandings about consent? This is not uncommon at all...especially these days.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If the woman had not been so bloodied and injured, this would have been a case of he said/she said. Thankfully, her injuries were significant and horrific enough that he would have been convicted of rape and had to settle.

She was not bloodied and injured, that is misinformation. If you read the hearing transcript from the detective, it is very informative. He testifies based on his interview with the sexual assault nurse and the written examination report provided by the sexual assault nurse. For almost every single body part and genital part - it is is marked as no trauma observed. The report notes two areas of injury - one very small (1 cm x 2 cm bruise) on the jawline, and pinpoint microscopic tears on the posterior fourchette. The tears were not visible to the naked eye but were visible under microscope and with dye. There were also two 1 cm lacerations visible under microscope. There were no other injuries noted. There was minor redness noted in two regions (one external and one internal). There was no treatment or intervention recommended (no creams or any follow up). During the hearing the detective testifies that he did not read the written report closely as he does not have a good understanding of female genitalia and didn't understand what he was reading. He repeats this a few times as he doesn't know the names for the various parts of the genitals that he is being asked questions about. He says that during his interview with the sexual assault nurse she told him that the tears could be consistent with "penetrating genital trauma". Nowhere does it say it was caused by non consensual sex. The nurse is not called to testify as to her expertise with regard to knowledge of injuries with consensual vs non consensual sex or with regards to the timeline when these injuries might have occurred (the victim also had sex a day or two before the alleged assault). Since the nurse didn't testify, the detective was working from his interview and the written report - both of which he testified that he didn't understand much of the medical / physiological content.

This is a great effort at clarifying the record, but I feel it is unfortunately lost on this agenda-driven mob.

Definitely got lost. Or overlooked.

[Anonymous]

Basta! Dead horse, beaten! Enough!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If the woman had not been so bloodied and injured, this would have been a case of he said/she said. Thankfully, her injuries were significant and horrific enough that he would have been convicted of rape and had to settle.

She was not bloodied and injured, that is misinformation. If you read the hearing transcript from the detective, it is very informative. He testifies based on his interview with the sexual assault nurse and the written examination report provided by the sexual assault nurse. For almost every single body part and genital part - it is is marked as no trauma observed. The report notes two areas of injury - one very small (1 cm x 2 cm bruise) on the jawline, and pinpoint microscopic tears on the posterior fourchette. The tears were not visible to the naked eye but were visible under microscope and with dye. There were also two 1 cm lacerations visible under microscope. There were no other injuries noted. There was minor redness noted in two regions (one external and one internal). There was no treatment or intervention recommended (no creams or any follow up). During the hearing the detective testifies that he did not read the written report closely as he does not have a good understanding of female genitalia and didn't understand what he was reading. He repeats this a few times as he doesn't know the names for the various parts of the genitals that he is being asked questions about. He says that during his interview with the sexual assault nurse she told him that the tears could be consistent with "penetrating genital trauma". Nowhere does it say it was caused by non consensual sex. The nurse is not called to testify as to her expertise with regard to knowledge of injuries with consensual vs non consensual sex or with regards to the timeline when these injuries might have occurred (the victim also had sex a day or two before the alleged assault). Since the nurse didn't testify, the detective was working from his interview and the written report - both of which he testified that he didn't understand much of the medical / physiological content.

This is a great effort at clarifying the record, but I feel it is unfortunately lost on this agenda-driven mob.

Definitely got lost. Or overlooked.

If you are that same poster, thank you very much for that effort.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:His apology was basically "Sorry if you think I raped you" which is the worst. I don't know many women who on a random hookup enjoy being bent over and choked. Jesus it was violent.

Your sex life must be boring. People are into all kinds of stuff and choking is really not that exotic.

The standard for consent has shifted since then. This has been stated repeatedly in this thread. He was a brash, young athlete that was probably not used to being told no and was probably used to being in complete control in his sexual encounters. He asked if he could release on her face. He stopped when she said no. She bragged about it afterward. This is a murky encounter at best.

Why wouldn't it be appropriate to conclude that there were mixed understandings about consent? This is not uncommon at all...especially these days.

Per her police affidavit, he did not ask if he could, he asked if she liked it. When she said no, he said he’d do it anyway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
www.msnbc.com/news/942322...=SA01#BODY

Kobe’s accuser ‘bragged’ at party
Alleged victim in good mood days before charges filed, host says; another saw ‘visible evidence’ of attack


NBCSPORTS.COM NEWS SERVICES

EAGLE, Colo., July 22 — The 19-year-old woman who accused Kobe Bryant of sexually assaulting her attended a party just days before charges were filed against Bryant and appeared to be in a good mood and “bragging” about the incident, several teen-agers at the party told NBC News on Tuesday. Another friend told the Associated Press that the woman had “visible evidence” of the alleged attack a week later.

THE ALLEGED VICTIM was at a party three days before the charges were filed and appeared to be in a good mood, NBC News reported, citing five party attendees.

“She was bragging about it,” party host Steve Evancho told NBC News.

The victim described Bryant’s anatomy when asked about it at the party, the host said.

Another friend gave a different impression of the victim, saying she was still “shaken up” by what happened.

Luke Bray declined to be more specific out of respect for his friend and her family.

“There is visible evidence of what happened,” he said.

Eagle County sheriff’s spokeswoman Kim Andree declined comment on NBC’s report and Bray’s statement. Neither prosecutor Mark Hurlbert nor Bryant’s attorneys returned telephone messages seeking comment.

Hurlbert has said he believes he has enough physical and testimonial evidence to prove the case beyond a reasonable doubt.

The 24-year-old Bryant was charged with one count of sexually assaulting the concierge at an exclusive mountain resort last month. He said the sex was consensual and that he only committed adultery.

The Los Angeles Lakers star is free on bond pending an Aug. 6 court hearing during which he will be formally advised of the charge against him.

An Eagle County district judge has sealed most do ents, including the arrest affidavit, details of the physical evidence and other information. The Denver Post, the Los Angeles Times, NBC and the Vail Daily have asked a district judge to release some of the material.

Bryant’s attorneys filed a 23-page brief objecting to the release of any do ents, the Times reported Tuesday. Bryant’s attorneys don’t want any negative information regarding him to be released to the media, fearing it would effect the trial, the Times reported.

Lawyers for the Vail Daily and the alleged victim filed written arguments Tuesday in the newspaper’s request for police reports it believes are related to the woman. Hurlbert may file his own brief, spokeswoman Krista Flannigan said.

The alleged victim is a college student who took a summer job at the Lodge & Spa at the Cordillera in nearby Edwards. Friends say she is an energetic former cheerleader known for her love of music. She once tried out for the television program, “American Idol.”

Bray, 21, said he saw the woman about a week after the alleged assault on June 30. “She was still shaken up. She was pretty much in denial,” he said. “She couldn’t believe it.”

He said the woman was also at his house Friday to watch news conferences where Hurlbert announced the charges and Bryant admitted adultery and apologized to his wife.

“She couldn’t believe that his wife was sitting there and apparently didn’t care about adultery,” Bray said.

Sara Dabner, 17, who sang in the Eagle County High School choir with the woman, asked: “Why would a woman put herself through all of this - having people call her names? I think she just wants to see justice done. She’s not trying to drag him through the dirt.”

The woman was named on Tuesday by a nationally syndicated talk-show host and on the Internet despite pleas for privacy from her family.

Rape counselors and mental health experts were outraged by the exposure of the young Colorado woman, saying that a victim of sexual assault would be further traumatized by public scrutiny.

“That’s like being raped again,” if her accusations against Bryant are true, said Dr. Patricia Saunders, director of Graham Windham Manhattan Medical Center in New York City. “It’s an intrusion. It’s an utter violation of her right to privacy. It’s a sadistic thing to do.”

News organizations, which typically have policies against naming sexual assault victims, have not identified the woman. But her name, address, telephone number and possibly her picture have surfaced on the Internet.

Meanwhile Tom Leykis, host of a radio talk-show based in Los Angeles and aimed mostly at young men, began using her name on the air and told Reuters that he has no plans to stop.

“We’re told that rape is violence, not sex, and if that’s true there’s no reason she should feel shame or embarrassment,” Leykis said, adding that he felt it unfair to name Bryant but not his accuser.

The talk-show host, who is heard on 60 stations across the country, also said he did not believe the woman’s claims. He said he believes the woman was seeking attention and money and that Bryant could be the “real victim” in the case.


The Associated Press and Reuters contributed to this report.

I can’t believe I’m continuing to argue with a troll, but there is no such thing as nbcsports.com news services.

Well, yeah...because this article is from July 2003...

. Funny how zillions of other 2003 articles about the rape show up, though.

Please post them with the links to their original sources. Remember you said zillions. Thanks.

The media scrubbed the original links.

Regardless, those articles still existed. Many other sources cite the same information

https://wendyista.blogspot.com/2009/06/kobe-bryants-alleged-rape-victim.html?m=1

Besides, if the woman really was bragging, I’m sorry but, why would one brag about being raped??

And “if” she wasn’t raped, then that means she’s okay, right? Don’t you want her to not be harmed? Isn’t it a good thing that she wasn’t raped?

I know the article existed. It was pretty common knowledge at the time. That poster is just being ridiculous and now employing a standard of scrutiny to MSCBC that they would NEVER do if the article in question fit their narrative.

Exactly. It’s not about if the girl was even harmed. It sounds like they had rough sex, and someone in her family or a friend probably told her “hey claim rape and get a huge payday”.

Because all of the evidence looks like it was rough sex gone awkward, she liked it and bragged about it at a party, then suddenly, she became a victim.

Hence why the trail never made it to court.

Note: I’m a woman who’s as anti-rape as they come. But this sounds like consensual sex that got a bit rough. But when she was uncomfortable, he stopped. As a woman, I’ve been there before with men. I’d hardly call that rape.

But I digress.

[Anonymous]

Also he was 24 and has apologized, and has done nothing else since then until his death. People make mistakes, but to smear the guys reputation like that is just ludicrous. He learned from the event and moved on to raise a great family with a loving wife who forgave him. Scandal free since.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Also he was 24 and has apologized, and has done nothing else since then until his death. People make mistakes, but to smear the guys reputation like that is just ludicrous. He learned from the event and moved on to raise a great family with a loving wife who forgave him. Scandal free since.

NP, fine. And the tributes to him have been 95 percent glowing. Frankly, a bit much in my opinion, as a non-sports fan, but that's just me. Let people mourn and remember as they see fit, and that includes people who remember the rape accusation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Also he was 24 and has apologized, and has done nothing else since then until his death. People make mistakes, but to smear the guys reputation like that is just ludicrous. He learned from the event and moved on to raise a great family with a loving wife who forgave him. Scandal free since.

It’s not smearing his reputation. People are complicated, and he was gifted but not perfect.

[Anonymous]

Did the wife not file for divorce after 11 years of marriage and then they made up again?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also he was 24 and has apologized, and has done nothing else since then until his death. People make mistakes, but to smear the guys reputation like that is just ludicrous. He learned from the event and moved on to raise a great family with a loving wife who forgave him. Scandal free since.

It’s not smearing his reputation. People are complicated, and he was gifted but not perfect.

Well there were 10 years between kid 2 and kid 3. The ages are 17, 13, 3, 7 months. And I believe the “incident” happened between kid 1 and 2.