Another gunman, another elementary school

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm all for stricter gun laws, but that's only part of the solution -- and frankly -- the easier part of the solution. For starters, we need to step up and clamp down on the rampant cyberbullying that takes place -- cyberbullying that causes too many kids to kill themselves or to kill innocent people. We also need to boycott Hollywood and its glorification of violence -- a glorification that enriches media (i.e. film, TV and music) executives while putting the idea into young people's minds that it's okay or cool to go on shooting rampages. Finally, we need to find ways that support and strengthen families. No, I'm not talking about "traditional family values" or anything like that. I'm talking about an environment in which young people have healthy adult parents or mentors who instill them a sense of self-worth or confidence -- a sense of purpose in life.

Agree.

We know the shooter was from a broken home and a troubled background.

Why can’t algorithms detect that instead of all the marketing BS pushed by TikTok and Instagram?

Because it would have missed the Columbone shooters.

That was then. Now, people have internet search histories and yes, it's definitely something you can mine. Also, there are tons of people working for the CIA/FBI/NSA who are doing this very thing for terrorist acts. Maybe some of that money should be spent on monitoring people who fill out gun applications.

Really? What, specifically, could you have mined about the Columbine shooters' backgrounds that would have prevented that massacre? You're coming up with all sorts of fantasies in order to continue to justify the existence of killing machines that will be used to murder children. That is revolting, and you owe an apology to the victims' families.

I'm the PP you are quoting and you are misunderstanding me. First of all, I am from a country where we aren't allowed firearms. I actually don't believe in common sense gun laws as I don't believe in guns period. I don't think regular people should have them, except hunting rifles, and law enforcement/military can have them. However, nothing works in isolation in the world of the internet. You need to hit the problem from different directions. One, outlaw guns. Two, outlaw media (video games) that glorify gun violence. Three, monitor "at risk" people based on their search histories (are they figuring out how to 3D print a gun, for example). Four, allow people to sue gun manufacturers and parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm all for stricter gun laws, but that's only part of the solution -- and frankly -- the easier part of the solution. For starters, we need to step up and clamp down on the rampant cyberbullying that takes place -- cyberbullying that causes too many kids to kill themselves or to kill innocent people. We also need to boycott Hollywood and its glorification of violence -- a glorification that enriches media (i.e. film, TV and music) executives while putting the idea into young people's minds that it's okay or cool to go on shooting rampages. Finally, we need to find ways that support and strengthen families. No, I'm not talking about "traditional family values" or anything like that. I'm talking about an environment in which young people have healthy adult parents or mentors who instill them a sense of self-worth or confidence -- a sense of purpose in life.

No it's not "easier" because people keep voting Republicans into office who won't pass common sense gun laws. These Republican members of Congress are indebted to the NRA.
And, in case it hasn't dawned on you, Republicans are also not willing to pay for mental heath care, community efforts to end cyber-bullying, or social programs to help struggling parents.

We can't do what you suggest until Republicans are voted out.

The PP's valid point is that politics alone will not solve the problem of gun violence.

Well, since "Thoughts and Prayers" haven't worked at all for the last 20 years, maybe Republicans should try to pass a bill to limit sales of assault rilfes.

Extending sympathy and prayers to grieving families of dead children is not intended to stop school shootings. It's not supposed "to work" to stop the shootings. And you know it.

Extending sympathy is a common thing to do, and prayers is what religious people do in troubling times.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There have always been a lot of guns in the US and access hasn't changed much. If anything, access is more regulated than it was 50+ years ago. Yet we have many many more mass shootings. What variable changed? Is it social media? Different expectations for kids? Lack of mental health instituations- particularly residential ones?

Pre 1970s it wasn't all that hard to have someone committed to mental institution if they were unstable. Now, not only it that extremely difficult to do, there are very very few even left.

I think the mass shootings need to be addressed from both angles. Stricter gun lines/more regulation but also more mental health resources. And by resources I mean institutions. All the "therapy" in the world isn't enough.

Firearms today are more powerful and more efficient than in the 1970s. Less recoil, lighter, able to dispense bigger rounds more quickly, higher quality production processes, etc. Further, the gun industry has "democratized" - there are more manufacturers tpday than in the 1970s. The equipment to produce firearms is not that expensive relative to the 1970s. It's easier to do more damage more quickly in 2022 compared to the 1970s.

The internet has vastly lowered the bar for acquiring a firearm. You can chat with someone online and do a private transaction in a parking lot that same day.

The internet has also allowed gun hobbyists (and legit psychopaths) to find each other online and inspire one another. The internet and social media has led to an arms race among gun hobbyist to acquire ever more powerful firearms as a point of pride. The manufacturers have popped up to meet demand and to figure out how to circumvent gun laws. It's a cultural ecosystem where all the players involved feed off each others' enthusiasm for firearms.

Finally, the US has a toxic culture. No social trust, solidarity, or empathy for fellow Americans. Adding guns to this culture is just a recipe for violence.

I honestly think the most effective gun legislation would be to ban ownership for anyone under the age of 25 who is not active duty military, national guard, or police. Vast majority of gun crimes - excluding domestic violence - are committed by men under the age of 25. This group is also responsible for most gun suicides.

Also, tons of money started going into 2a lobbying and marketing.

Instead of selling guns primarily for recreation/hunting, they started pushing guns for "safety, security, protection", shaping the gun culture away from hunting to military cosplay.

This is a good point. Though the 2A wasn't made to ensure people are able to hunt. It was made so people always are able to protect their family/property and prevent against government tyranny. Though the government tyranny with your home rifles or even ARs is a moot point now since modern military weaponry is so far more advanced. But I do agree there has been heavy lobbying to convince people they have this high need to have a gun and protect themselves

There’s a reason the Second Amendment makes explicit reference to a well-regulated militia. Scalia, Roberts, Thomas, Alito and Kennedy have blood of children on their hands. And get upset if citizens protest outside their homes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm all for stricter gun laws, but that's only part of the solution -- and frankly -- the easier part of the solution. For starters, we need to step up and clamp down on the rampant cyberbullying that takes place -- cyberbullying that causes too many kids to kill themselves or to kill innocent people. We also need to boycott Hollywood and its glorification of violence -- a glorification that enriches media (i.e. film, TV and music) executives while putting the idea into young people's minds that it's okay or cool to go on shooting rampages. Finally, we need to find ways that support and strengthen families. No, I'm not talking about "traditional family values" or anything like that. I'm talking about an environment in which young people have healthy adult parents or mentors who instill them a sense of self-worth or confidence -- a sense of purpose in life.

No it's not "easier" because people keep voting Republicans into office who won't pass common sense gun laws. These Republican members of Congress are indebted to the NRA.
And, in case it hasn't dawned on you, Republicans are also not willing to pay for mental heath care, community efforts to end cyber-bullying, or social programs to help struggling parents.

We can't do what you suggest until Republicans are voted out.

The PP's valid point is that politics alone will not solve the problem of gun violence.

Well, since "Thoughts and Prayers" haven't worked at all for the last 20 years, maybe Republicans should try to pass a bill to limit sales of assault rilfes.

Extending sympathy and prayers to grieving families of dead children is not intended to stop school shootings. It's not supposed "to work" to stop the shootings. And you know it.

Extending sympathy is a common thing to do, and prayers is what religious people do in troubling times.

Prayers don’t do shit for dead kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So now schools - in addition to providing all mental health services, social work services, education, all three meals in some instances - are now tasked with stopping the very people trying to kill them all within the building? That's a solution?? Make them figure out a way to protect themselves from mass shooters? Is there no task we're not willing to put on the school's shoulders?

Some schools have lock down drills, locked doors, officers, and even metal detectors. Planning for safety should be a priority.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm all for stricter gun laws, but that's only part of the solution -- and frankly -- the easier part of the solution. For starters, we need to step up and clamp down on the rampant cyberbullying that takes place -- cyberbullying that causes too many kids to kill themselves or to kill innocent people. We also need to boycott Hollywood and its glorification of violence -- a glorification that enriches media (i.e. film, TV and music) executives while putting the idea into young people's minds that it's okay or cool to go on shooting rampages. Finally, we need to find ways that support and strengthen families. No, I'm not talking about "traditional family values" or anything like that. I'm talking about an environment in which young people have healthy adult parents or mentors who instill them a sense of self-worth or confidence -- a sense of purpose in life.

No it's not "easier" because people keep voting Republicans into office who won't pass common sense gun laws. These Republican members of Congress are indebted to the NRA.
And, in case it hasn't dawned on you, Republicans are also not willing to pay for mental heath care, community efforts to end cyber-bullying, or social programs to help struggling parents.

We can't do what you suggest until Republicans are voted out.

The PP's valid point is that politics alone will not solve the problem of gun violence.

Well, since "Thoughts and Prayers" haven't worked at all for the last 20 years, maybe Republicans should try to pass a bill to limit sales of assault rilfes.

Extending sympathy and prayers to grieving families of dead children is not intended to stop school shootings. It's not supposed "to work" to stop the shootings. And you know it.

Extending sympathy is a common thing to do, and prayers is what religious people do in troubling times.

BS. Don't be so naive. Politicians say "thoughts and prayers" because it's enough for their pathetic constituents, who are all to content to accept those toothless words over effective policies to end gun violence.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm all for stricter gun laws, but that's only part of the solution -- and frankly -- the easier part of the solution. For starters, we need to step up and clamp down on the rampant cyberbullying that takes place -- cyberbullying that causes too many kids to kill themselves or to kill innocent people. We also need to boycott Hollywood and its glorification of violence -- a glorification that enriches media (i.e. film, TV and music) executives while putting the idea into young people's minds that it's okay or cool to go on shooting rampages. Finally, we need to find ways that support and strengthen families. No, I'm not talking about "traditional family values" or anything like that. I'm talking about an environment in which young people have healthy adult parents or mentors who instill them a sense of self-worth or confidence -- a sense of purpose in life.

No it's not "easier" because people keep voting Republicans into office who won't pass common sense gun laws. These Republican members of Congress are indebted to the NRA.
And, in case it hasn't dawned on you, Republicans are also not willing to pay for mental heath care, community efforts to end cyber-bullying, or social programs to help struggling parents.

We can't do what you suggest until Republicans are voted out.

The PP's valid point is that politics alone will not solve the problem of gun violence.

Well, since "Thoughts and Prayers" haven't worked at all for the last 20 years, maybe Republicans should try to pass a bill to limit sales of assault rilfes.

Extending sympathy and prayers to grieving families of dead children is not intended to stop school shootings. It's not supposed "to work" to stop the shootings. And you know it.

Extending sympathy is a common thing to do, and prayers is what religious people do in troubling times.

BS. Don't be so naive. Politicians say "thoughts and prayers" because it's enough for their pathetic constituents, who are all to content to accept those toothless words over effective policies to end gun violence.

Condolences and prayers are NOT a policy. Stop conflating - stop with the pretending.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What can I do TODAY to move the needle so that this does not happen again? Write someone? Who?!

Nobody here wants to do a single thing new to protect child safety at school unless it's a form of gun control law (that may never become law).

So, in the meantime, a sure way to prevent our kids from being shot at school is to not attend school. Can home school. If all kids were home schooled, there would be zero school shootings.

Nothing is stopping us from increasing school security.

Everyone agrees on that.

Why not start there? We could start that today.

THE KILLER WAS BEING CHASED BY ARMED LAW ENFORCEMENT AND STILL MANAGED TO MURDER 20 PEOPLE.

This.

A high-powered weapon will always out shoot a handgun, which is what most police and SROs have.

Look at Marjorie Stoneman Douglas - there was armed security on campus who couldn't do anything. Didn't one person even get in trouble from running away from the gunfire after realizing the shooter was using a high-powered gun? Even the first officers arriving on scene were outgunned.

You can keep your 2nd Amendment rights. Have all the little guns and hunting rifles you want. No one needs a AR-15 assault rifles as an ordinary citizen.

If you can't drink until 21 or rent a car until 25, you shouldn't be able to buy an assault rifle at 18.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm all for stricter gun laws, but that's only part of the solution -- and frankly -- the easier part of the solution. For starters, we need to step up and clamp down on the rampant cyberbullying that takes place -- cyberbullying that causes too many kids to kill themselves or to kill innocent people. We also need to boycott Hollywood and its glorification of violence -- a glorification that enriches media (i.e. film, TV and music) executives while putting the idea into young people's minds that it's okay or cool to go on shooting rampages. Finally, we need to find ways that support and strengthen families. No, I'm not talking about "traditional family values" or anything like that. I'm talking about an environment in which young people have healthy adult parents or mentors who instill them a sense of self-worth or confidence -- a sense of purpose in life.

No it's not "easier" because people keep voting Republicans into office who won't pass common sense gun laws. These Republican members of Congress are indebted to the NRA.
And, in case it hasn't dawned on you, Republicans are also not willing to pay for mental heath care, community efforts to end cyber-bullying, or social programs to help struggling parents.

We can't do what you suggest until Republicans are voted out.

The PP's valid point is that politics alone will not solve the problem of gun violence.

Well, since "Thoughts and Prayers" haven't worked at all for the last 20 years, maybe Republicans should try to pass a bill to limit sales of assault rilfes.

Extending sympathy and prayers to grieving families of dead children is not intended to stop school shootings. It's not supposed "to work" to stop the shootings. And you know it.

Extending sympathy is a common thing to do, and prayers is what religious people do in troubling times.

BS. Don't be so naive. Politicians say "thoughts and prayers" because it's enough for their pathetic constituents, who are all to content to accept those toothless words over effective policies to end gun violence.

Condolences and prayers are NOT a policy. Stop conflating - stop with the pretending.

It's all that GOP politicians are offering.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So now schools - in addition to providing all mental health services, social work services, education, all three meals in some instances - are now tasked with stopping the very people trying to kill them all within the building? That's a solution?? Make them figure out a way to protect themselves from mass shooters? Is there no task we're not willing to put on the school's shoulders?

Some schools have lock down drills, locked doors, officers, and even metal detectors. Planning for safety should be a priority.

It is so completely f'ed up that this is the case. Ban guns.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In every single one of these cases, somwhere someone knows these people are a danger to others. In many cases multiple someones. And often times those people tried to sound the alarm and were not taken seriously. None of these shooters were perfectly normal people who woke up one day and decided to shoot a bunch of people.

How about we start taking the warnings more seriously? Taking action? (And I am all for gun control, this is not instead of but in addition to.)

Sure, we should start by offering free mental health services. Would Rs be on board with that? I don't think so. They hate obamacare with a passion. They speak with both sides of their mouths most of the time.

Rs: These guys have mental health issues; it's not a gun issue.
Rs: But we don't want to offer free mental healthcare; we want more guns

That's their logic.

[Anonymous]

Too bad we don't have the functional political environment of of Scotland. Scotland had one gun massacre at a school in 1996, and since then there hasn't been a repeat incident. Seeing 16 elementary school children shot so horrified the nation that within a year both sides were able to come together to agree some common-sense gun laws that permitted hobbyists to enjoy hunting while depriving the streets of massive quantities of hand guns.
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/how-1996-dunblane-massacre-pushed-uk-enact-stricter-gun-laws-180977221/?fbclid=IwAR1dR-gT3xdGYl6pDBcndnaTq8OtdVoasxZ-18xdNwZ0NhCHgDGgXRkB4J8

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Every thread on this is exactly the same with the exact same answers. I can’t believe op posted this as we all have cnn and this is 40 pages. You all say the exact same thing every single thread. Guess what? Nothing will change, and stop blaming the politicians. Blame America because someone had to vote them in. Vote them out in November is our only solution. Stop asking for stricter gun laws. News flash-It didn’t happen after Sandy hoook and it won’t happen now. You just repeat yourselves in every thread. Op starting a thread so she can say she got a 40 page thread started with the same BS......Stop vote it. Just vote. The politicians won’t hear you so stop wasting your breath

But but but GAS PRICES something something

Agreed, but I also think the power of our vote is pretty diluted given that half the people are okay with the current culture.
So it's clear - the folks who support gun ownership, abortion restrictions, and dislike minorities - it's not small. It's close to 50%.
The only thing that causes change in America is money, not votes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm all for stricter gun laws, but that's only part of the solution -- and frankly -- the easier part of the solution. For starters, we need to step up and clamp down on the rampant cyberbullying that takes place -- cyberbullying that causes too many kids to kill themselves or to kill innocent people. We also need to boycott Hollywood and its glorification of violence -- a glorification that enriches media (i.e. film, TV and music) executives while putting the idea into young people's minds that it's okay or cool to go on shooting rampages. Finally, we need to find ways that support and strengthen families. No, I'm not talking about "traditional family values" or anything like that. I'm talking about an environment in which young people have healthy adult parents or mentors who instill them a sense of self-worth or confidence -- a sense of purpose in life.

No it's not "easier" because people keep voting Republicans into office who won't pass common sense gun laws. These Republican members of Congress are indebted to the NRA.
And, in case it hasn't dawned on you, Republicans are also not willing to pay for mental heath care, community efforts to end cyber-bullying, or social programs to help struggling parents.

We can't do what you suggest until Republicans are voted out.

The PP's valid point is that politics alone will not solve the problem of gun violence.

Well, since "Thoughts and Prayers" haven't worked at all for the last 20 years, maybe Republicans should try to pass a bill to limit sales of assault rilfes.

Extending sympathy and prayers to grieving families of dead children is not intended to stop school shootings. It's not supposed "to work" to stop the shootings. And you know it.

Extending sympathy is a common thing to do, and prayers is what religious people do in troubling times.

Tots and pears, yo

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We can all wring our hands as much as we want. Nothing is going to change. It's just part of mainstream American male culture. We will be seeing this our whole lives, and our children will too. I have zero hope anything is going to change. Even in states with stricter gun laws, like Maryland, it is easy enough to get one if you really want to. For example, a high school student in moco had a ghost gun a few months ago that he threatened someone with - he ordered the parts off the internet. All the real power is with the NRA.

Additionally, we will have our reproductive rights curtailed slowly, no matter how much we protest. The restricting of congressional seats has made our power to control the courts very limited. All the real power is with the Republican Christian right.

Finally, health care costs will continue to rise, astronomically. We don't want to finance anything like single payer, and we allow pharmas and health insurance companies and physicians (yes, I said it! As I am one) to always make sure they get paid very high salaries (despite these fields not making nearly as much money in other western nations). All the real power is with Pharma and the AMA.

Basically feeling very hopeless and really hoping my kids get into college outside of this country.

My kid goes to school in Europe. I've told her to put down roots abroad. The idea that classrooms of children can be mowed down and more than half the country just shrugs it off as "the price of gun ownership" sends chills down my spine.

I am encouraging my daughters to look at attending university abroad and then remaining there.

America has been in decline for my entire lifetime - socially and overall economically (leaving aside the wealthy). Unless there is some real sea change America is effectively finished.

Congress was able to immediately authorize additional security for SCOTUS justices without violence or even the threat of it. The wealthy and politically powerful will continue to live in their bubbles with no regard to the rest of the citizenry.