Antizionism is not antisemitism/the current conflict

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Answer the question does antizionism equal antisemitism. I don’t care if there are American jews in the marines etc. no kidding. My Jewish friends believe these words are synonymous and have hastily branded anyone including children who state negative attitudes towards Israel as being both and will not really engage with any nonjew who questions anything, they shutdown the convo immediately. This seems a little narrow minded and frankly unfair. That is why I am on this forum as I am terrified to even broach the topic with any American acquaintances who are Jewish.

Did you read the OP? That’s the entire topic of this thread. If by antizionism you mean criticism of the Israeli government then no, it’s not antisemitic on its own (but could be motivated by antisemitism). If by antizionism you mean thinking the state of Israel should be dismantled then yeah, that’s very probably antisemitic.

“My Jewish friends believe these words are synonymous and have hastily branded anyone including children who state negative attitudes towards Israel as being [antisemitic]”
You keep hijacking threads to talk about this alleged bullying incident at your child’s school. I have a really hard time believing your kid was branded an antisemite simply for criticizing the Israeli government, but idk maybe. Kids are dumb and cruel sometimes. That doesn’t justify your insane persecution complex. You seem to think the Jews are out to get you and ruin your life if you so much as breathe a word about Israel and uhhh……look around you ma’am. Anti-Israel sentiment is incredibly pervasive. People don’t seem AT ALL afraid to be very very open about it.

Yes, unfortunately it is true my DC is seen by the jewish community as being antisemitic and the Jewish americans I am acquainted with are not open and engaging as far as any inquiries regarding their country. It’s very off putting.

Give it up lady. Your local synagogue does not have a wanted poster for your 8 year old. Also “Jewish Americans” are … US citizens. Israel is not “their country.”

No, but I don’t appreciate my DC being falsely accused as being a racist/bigot. This is slander and you wouldn’t like it if it were happening to your child. I am aware that Americans are American citizens, however the American jews I have associated with consider Israel their homeland.

You still have not provided all the details of this “false accusation” - and then generalizing whatever happened between children to come to conclusions about antisemitism is obviously problematic. Especially when you seem to have absolutely zero instinct or understanding about what is actually antisemitic (such as — assuming all American Jews are also Israeli). I’m also curious about what exactly your supposed Jewish friends told you. My guess is you are misunderstanding.

Is branding a child as being a racist/bigot/antisemite ever acceptable? No adults were present for this conversation but ultimately the Jewish American parents supported their DC branding my DC antisemite because they felt threatened due to a conversation between children about the middle east. I am not an antisemite and neither is my DC. This family rarely will even engage with me at all, how would they even know what my thoughts were?

who “branded” your child anything? You sound extremely defensive. Even if this once incident is true, it says nothing about the overall discussion. All we know is that the Jewish child felt offended. The way schools deal with that stuff could be an entirely different thread.

This jewish family branded my DC anantisemite.

You are going to have to provide more details.

I’d rather she didn’t actually. She got another thread about antisemitism locked because she kept interjecting and derailing the conversation. This has been a productive thread overall and I don’t want to give her the power to single-handedly shut it down.

The conversation topic is antizionism is not antisemitism. It seems like first hand anecdotes involving these issues are irrelevant unless it fits a certain narrative.

Ok sure, but what universal truths do you suppose we can extrapolate from this one alleged schoolyard bullying incident? Parents will stick up for their bully kids? Ok then. No one on this thread is arguing that “Israel is killing people” is an antisemitic statement. Move on.

This is obviously more than a bullying incident particularly because we live amongst thousands of Jews. Now I have to figure out how to pick up the pieces and navigate my DC through all of this in the most politically correct, benign, nonoffensive way possible as a nonjew.

Good luck with all that.

It’s a losing battle.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think the other kid or his or her parents have to do the emotional labor of explaining anti-Jewish racism to your kid (or you). The other kid is a whole kid who is entitled to their feelings and reactions. They do not need your good opinion to function and I doubt you want or need theirs. Plus, hating on Jews is super hip these days. May actually make DC more friend. I’m sure your kid has also gone up to his or Salvadoran classmates and given them an earful about death squads or his Afghani classmates about gender apartheid and child marriageable. Maybe suggest model UN?

Yes DC is very interesting in national/international politics as a matter of fact.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Answer the question does antizionism equal antisemitism. I don’t care if there are American jews in the marines etc. no kidding. My Jewish friends believe these words are synonymous and have hastily branded anyone including children who state negative attitudes towards Israel as being both and will not really engage with any nonjew who questions anything, they shutdown the convo immediately. This seems a little narrow minded and frankly unfair. That is why I am on this forum as I am terrified to even broach the topic with any American acquaintances who are Jewish.

Did you read the OP? That’s the entire topic of this thread. If by antizionism you mean criticism of the Israeli government then no, it’s not antisemitic on its own (but could be motivated by antisemitism). If by antizionism you mean thinking the state of Israel should be dismantled then yeah, that’s very probably antisemitic.

“My Jewish friends believe these words are synonymous and have hastily branded anyone including children who state negative attitudes towards Israel as being [antisemitic]”
You keep hijacking threads to talk about this alleged bullying incident at your child’s school. I have a really hard time believing your kid was branded an antisemite simply for criticizing the Israeli government, but idk maybe. Kids are dumb and cruel sometimes. That doesn’t justify your insane persecution complex. You seem to think the Jews are out to get you and ruin your life if you so much as breathe a word about Israel and uhhh……look around you ma’am. Anti-Israel sentiment is incredibly pervasive. People don’t seem AT ALL afraid to be very very open about it.

Yes, unfortunately it is true my DC is seen by the jewish community as being antisemitic and the Jewish americans I am acquainted with are not open and engaging as far as any inquiries regarding their country. It’s very off putting.

Give it up lady. Your local synagogue does not have a wanted poster for your 8 year old. Also “Jewish Americans” are … US citizens. Israel is not “their country.”

No, but I don’t appreciate my DC being falsely accused as being a racist/bigot. This is slander and you wouldn’t like it if it were happening to your child. I am aware that Americans are American citizens, however the American jews I have associated with consider Israel their homeland.

You still have not provided all the details of this “false accusation” - and then generalizing whatever happened between children to come to conclusions about antisemitism is obviously problematic. Especially when you seem to have absolutely zero instinct or understanding about what is actually antisemitic (such as — assuming all American Jews are also Israeli). I’m also curious about what exactly your supposed Jewish friends told you. My guess is you are misunderstanding.

Is branding a child as being a racist/bigot/antisemite ever acceptable? No adults were present for this conversation but ultimately the Jewish American parents supported their DC branding my DC antisemite because they felt threatened due to a conversation between children about the middle east. I am not an antisemite and neither is my DC. This family rarely will even engage with me at all, how would they even know what my thoughts were?

who “branded” your child anything? You sound extremely defensive. Even if this once incident is true, it says nothing about the overall discussion. All we know is that the Jewish child felt offended. The way schools deal with that stuff could be an entirely different thread.

This jewish family branded my DC anantisemite.

FYI, same poster has been hijacking threads in the college forum with this (ever-changing) story.

Recommend ignoring

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Answer the question does antizionism equal antisemitism. I don’t care if there are American jews in the marines etc. no kidding. My Jewish friends believe these words are synonymous and have hastily branded anyone including children who state negative attitudes towards Israel as being both and will not really engage with any nonjew who questions anything, they shutdown the convo immediately. This seems a little narrow minded and frankly unfair. That is why I am on this forum as I am terrified to even broach the topic with any American acquaintances who are Jewish.

Did you read the OP? That’s the entire topic of this thread. If by antizionism you mean criticism of the Israeli government then no, it’s not antisemitic on its own (but could be motivated by antisemitism). If by antizionism you mean thinking the state of Israel should be dismantled then yeah, that’s very probably antisemitic.

“My Jewish friends believe these words are synonymous and have hastily branded anyone including children who state negative attitudes towards Israel as being [antisemitic]”
You keep hijacking threads to talk about this alleged bullying incident at your child’s school. I have a really hard time believing your kid was branded an antisemite simply for criticizing the Israeli government, but idk maybe. Kids are dumb and cruel sometimes. That doesn’t justify your insane persecution complex. You seem to think the Jews are out to get you and ruin your life if you so much as breathe a word about Israel and uhhh……look around you ma’am. Anti-Israel sentiment is incredibly pervasive. People don’t seem AT ALL afraid to be very very open about it.

Yes, unfortunately it is true my DC is seen by the jewish community as being antisemitic and the Jewish americans I am acquainted with are not open and engaging as far as any inquiries regarding their country. It’s very off putting.

Give it up lady. Your local synagogue does not have a wanted poster for your 8 year old. Also “Jewish Americans” are … US citizens. Israel is not “their country.”

No, but I don’t appreciate my DC being falsely accused as being a racist/bigot. This is slander and you wouldn’t like it if it were happening to your child. I am aware that Americans are American citizens, however the American jews I have associated with consider Israel their homeland.

You still have not provided all the details of this “false accusation” - and then generalizing whatever happened between children to come to conclusions about antisemitism is obviously problematic. Especially when you seem to have absolutely zero instinct or understanding about what is actually antisemitic (such as — assuming all American Jews are also Israeli). I’m also curious about what exactly your supposed Jewish friends told you. My guess is you are misunderstanding.

Is branding a child as being a racist/bigot/antisemite ever acceptable? No adults were present for this conversation but ultimately the Jewish American parents supported their DC branding my DC antisemite because they felt threatened due to a conversation between children about the middle east. I am not an antisemite and neither is my DC. This family rarely will even engage with me at all, how would they even know what my thoughts were?

who “branded” your child anything? You sound extremely defensive. Even if this once incident is true, it says nothing about the overall discussion. All we know is that the Jewish child felt offended. The way schools deal with that stuff could be an entirely different thread.

This jewish family branded my DC anantisemite.

FYI, same poster has been hijacking threads in the college forum with this (ever-changing) story.

Recommend ignoring

Yeah, um, I am not posting on any college forum.

[Anonymous]

At least the pro Israel crowd is the same as Trump and maga.

[Anonymous]

Occasionally I read Jewish newspapers--have read some Haaretz articles but do not have a subscription, and also Times of Israel and Jerusalem post. On Haaretz site I can certainly read comments even when I can only see the headline, and can see comments for the other media as well. There are of course comments from all sides but the pro-Israel comments (I can't say how many of them are from Israelis vs other countries) are the absolute worst in referring to ANY Palestinian as an animal, subhuman, etc. New Yorker had an article about a Palestinian physician (Israel has a lot of Palestinian doctors) who volunteered to provide medical care in the field on October 7 and practices otherwise as well in Jerusalem with both Jewish and Palestinian patients. Some of her Jewish patients deeply appreciate her but she also constantly hears horrific comments about, say, a Palestinian newborn being a terrorist who should be killed.

These characterizations aren't even stated anonymously in mainstream comments by pro-Lost Cause racists in the US, they keep themselves (I'm sure) to the Nazi back alleys of the internet. But they seem to be broadly acceptable among some Jewish communities. The first I really became aware of the settler movement was years ago in a magazine like Time or something, where settlers spoke about Palestinians in the exact same most racist terms Americans have ever said about Native Americans (terms I actually heard on occasion growing up in a state with a substantial Native American population).

An aside to posters I noticed yesterday (can't find now) about how we don't give the US back to indigenous peoples (ignoring the fact that by the time America was approaching being a country 90% of the original inhabitants were dead). In fact, from time to time we DO give land back. A reservation my family used to drive through going to visit my grandparents on the other side became 10x larger sometime in the late 1970s, and in many other incremental ways tribes have been using the courts to regain rights they had lost a century or more ago. (Gorsuch happens to be knowledgeable in Indian law and has come down on the side of tribes in SCOTUS cases during his time on the bench)

[Anonymous]

^ referring to racists in the US I was not referring to what they say about Palestinians but about blacks or jews, just to be clear. It's the level of diatribe I was referring to, not the specific content.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Occasionally I read Jewish newspapers--have read some Haaretz articles but do not have a subscription, and also Times of Israel and Jerusalem post. On Haaretz site I can certainly read comments even when I can only see the headline, and can see comments for the other media as well. There are of course comments from all sides but the pro-Israel comments (I can't say how many of them are from Israelis vs other countries) are the absolute worst in referring to ANY Palestinian as an animal, subhuman, etc. New Yorker had an article about a Palestinian physician (Israel has a lot of Palestinian doctors) who volunteered to provide medical care in the field on October 7 and practices otherwise as well in Jerusalem with both Jewish and Palestinian patients. Some of her Jewish patients deeply appreciate her but she also constantly hears horrific comments about, say, a Palestinian newborn being a terrorist who should be killed.

These characterizations aren't even stated anonymously in mainstream comments by pro-Lost Cause racists in the US, they keep themselves (I'm sure) to the Nazi back alleys of the internet. But they seem to be broadly acceptable among some Jewish communities. The first I really became aware of the settler movement was years ago in a magazine like Time or something, where settlers spoke about Palestinians in the exact same most racist terms Americans have ever said about Native Americans (terms I actually heard on occasion growing up in a state with a substantial Native American population).

An aside to posters I noticed yesterday (can't find now) about how we don't give the US back to indigenous peoples (ignoring the fact that by the time America was approaching being a country 90% of the original inhabitants were dead). In fact, from time to time we DO give land back. A reservation my family used to drive through going to visit my grandparents on the other side became 10x larger sometime in the late 1970s, and in many other incremental ways tribes have been using the courts to regain rights they had lost a century or more ago. (Gorsuch happens to be knowledgeable in Indian law and has come down on the side of tribes in SCOTUS cases during his time on the bench)

Well if we are going to judge a nation by the comments section, we are all screwed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Occasionally I read Jewish newspapers--have read some Haaretz articles but do not have a subscription, and also Times of Israel and Jerusalem post. On Haaretz site I can certainly read comments even when I can only see the headline, and can see comments for the other media as well. There are of course comments from all sides but the pro-Israel comments (I can't say how many of them are from Israelis vs other countries) are the absolute worst in referring to ANY Palestinian as an animal, subhuman, etc. New Yorker had an article about a Palestinian physician (Israel has a lot of Palestinian doctors) who volunteered to provide medical care in the field on October 7 and practices otherwise as well in Jerusalem with both Jewish and Palestinian patients. Some of her Jewish patients deeply appreciate her but she also constantly hears horrific comments about, say, a Palestinian newborn being a terrorist who should be killed.

These characterizations aren't even stated anonymously in mainstream comments by pro-Lost Cause racists in the US, they keep themselves (I'm sure) to the Nazi back alleys of the internet. But they seem to be broadly acceptable among some Jewish communities. The first I really became aware of the settler movement was years ago in a magazine like Time or something, where settlers spoke about Palestinians in the exact same most racist terms Americans have ever said about Native Americans (terms I actually heard on occasion growing up in a state with a substantial Native American population).

An aside to posters I noticed yesterday (can't find now) about how we don't give the US back to indigenous peoples (ignoring the fact that by the time America was approaching being a country 90% of the original inhabitants were dead). In fact, from time to time we DO give land back. A reservation my family used to drive through going to visit my grandparents on the other side became 10x larger sometime in the late 1970s, and in many other incremental ways tribes have been using the courts to regain rights they had lost a century or more ago. (Gorsuch happens to be knowledgeable in Indian law and has come down on the side of tribes in SCOTUS cases during his time on the bench)

Well if we are going to judge a nation by the comments section, we are all screwed.

We were once about 30 years ago approaching a slightly more accepting unified country and then the internet was invented and people became more and more radicalized than ever. Everyone has to fit into their specific little clique or cult. Everything is so damn polarized now. There is no nuance, you either feel a certain way or you’re a bigoted racist.

[Anonymous]

People just regurgitate exactly what they read on the internet, what their specific groups tell them to believe, what brainwashed idiots we’ve become. This applies to so many people. I love watching the patterns, it’s all so predictable.

[Anonymous]

From the idiot hypocritical MAGAS being paranoid about package foods and red food dye now, to the lgbtq only identifying and associated with with other lgbtq and trampling over womens’ rights, to the animal obsessed, to the crunchy granola people, to the exercise fanatics, to the religios zealots, everyone picks a group/groups and plays that role to a T.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Occasionally I read Jewish newspapers--have read some Haaretz articles but do not have a subscription, and also Times of Israel and Jerusalem post. On Haaretz site I can certainly read comments even when I can only see the headline, and can see comments for the other media as well. There are of course comments from all sides but the pro-Israel comments (I can't say how many of them are from Israelis vs other countries) are the absolute worst in referring to ANY Palestinian as an animal, subhuman, etc. New Yorker had an article about a Palestinian physician (Israel has a lot of Palestinian doctors) who volunteered to provide medical care in the field on October 7 and practices otherwise as well in Jerusalem with both Jewish and Palestinian patients. Some of her Jewish patients deeply appreciate her but she also constantly hears horrific comments about, say, a Palestinian newborn being a terrorist who should be killed.

These characterizations aren't even stated anonymously in mainstream comments by pro-Lost Cause racists in the US, they keep themselves (I'm sure) to the Nazi back alleys of the internet. But they seem to be broadly acceptable among some Jewish communities. The first I really became aware of the settler movement was years ago in a magazine like Time or something, where settlers spoke about Palestinians in the exact same most racist terms Americans have ever said about Native Americans (terms I actually heard on occasion growing up in a state with a substantial Native American population).

An aside to posters I noticed yesterday (can't find now) about how we don't give the US back to indigenous peoples (ignoring the fact that by the time America was approaching being a country 90% of the original inhabitants were dead). In fact, from time to time we DO give land back. A reservation my family used to drive through going to visit my grandparents on the other side became 10x larger sometime in the late 1970s, and in many other incremental ways tribes have been using the courts to regain rights they had lost a century or more ago. (Gorsuch happens to be knowledgeable in Indian law and has come down on the side of tribes in SCOTUS cases during his time on the bench)

Well if we are going to judge a nation by the comments section, we are all screwed.

I dunno. The leaders of both the US and Israel are making us hateful enough without anyone having to search out the comments section.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think the other kid or his or her parents have to do the emotional labor of explaining anti-Jewish racism to your kid (or you). The other kid is a whole kid who is entitled to their feelings and reactions. They do not need your good opinion to function and I doubt you want or need theirs. Plus, hating on Jews is super hip these days. May actually make DC more friend. I’m sure your kid has also gone up to his or Salvadoran classmates and given them an earful about death squads or his Afghani classmates about gender apartheid and child marriageable. Maybe suggest model UN?

Dp

News flash: anyone is allowed to focus on personal area(s) of concern without your approval or judgement.

As you adroitly pointed out, each is a whole person and approval or judgement is unwelcome. Now, feel free to STFU with this “unless you are certain you have covered every possible base by criticizing every possible wrong in the world, you must be anti-semitic if you criticize Israel” crusade, which is straight outta Hasbara for Dummies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think the other kid or his or her parents have to do the emotional labor of explaining anti-Jewish racism to your kid (or you). The other kid is a whole kid who is entitled to their feelings and reactions. They do not need your good opinion to function and I doubt you want or need theirs. Plus, hating on Jews is super hip these days. May actually make DC more friend. I’m sure your kid has also gone up to his or Salvadoran classmates and given them an earful about death squads or his Afghani classmates about gender apartheid and child marriageable. Maybe suggest model UN?

Dp

News flash: anyone is allowed to focus on personal area(s) of concern without your approval or judgement.

As you adroitly pointed out, each is a whole person and approval or judgement is unwelcome. Now, feel free to STFU with this “unless you are certain you have covered every possible base by criticizing every possible wrong in the world, you must be anti-semitic if you criticize Israel” crusade, which is straight outta Hasbara for Dummies.

I mean using bigoted tropes like “hasbara” kind of lets your mask drop a tad, as does your rage…Throwing in the word crusade ups your “onward Christian soldier” vibe for extra credit! News flash - you are free to fixate and foam at the mouth - and we are also free to judge you for it…and if your kid comes at my kid - I’m free to explain to my kid that your kid is a racist who should be avoided. Life is too short. There are too many ignorant people and too many guns in this country, both with children and adults. And I would never tell my child they have to keep secrets from their teachers if another kid is bullying them. I would not confront you personally (see comment about life being too short) but students should always feel empowered to talk to teachers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Occasionally I read Jewish newspapers--have read some Haaretz articles but do not have a subscription, and also Times of Israel and Jerusalem post. On Haaretz site I can certainly read comments even when I can only see the headline, and can see comments for the other media as well. There are of course comments from all sides but the pro-Israel comments (I can't say how many of them are from Israelis vs other countries) are the absolute worst in referring to ANY Palestinian as an animal, subhuman, etc. New Yorker had an article about a Palestinian physician (Israel has a lot of Palestinian doctors) who volunteered to provide medical care in the field on October 7 and practices otherwise as well in Jerusalem with both Jewish and Palestinian patients. Some of her Jewish patients deeply appreciate her but she also constantly hears horrific comments about, say, a Palestinian newborn being a terrorist who should be killed.

These characterizations aren't even stated anonymously in mainstream comments by pro-Lost Cause racists in the US, they keep themselves (I'm sure) to the Nazi back alleys of the internet. But they seem to be broadly acceptable among some Jewish communities. The first I really became aware of the settler movement was years ago in a magazine like Time or something, where settlers spoke about Palestinians in the exact same most racist terms Americans have ever said about Native Americans (terms I actually heard on occasion growing up in a state with a substantial Native American population).

An aside to posters I noticed yesterday (can't find now) about how we don't give the US back to indigenous peoples (ignoring the fact that by the time America was approaching being a country 90% of the original inhabitants were dead). In fact, from time to time we DO give land back. A reservation my family used to drive through going to visit my grandparents on the other side became 10x larger sometime in the late 1970s, and in many other incremental ways tribes have been using the courts to regain rights they had lost a century or more ago. (Gorsuch happens to be knowledgeable in Indian law and has come down on the side of tribes in SCOTUS cases during his time on the bench)

Well if we are going to judge a nation by the comments section, we are all screwed.

Point is what is said about the Palestinians by many people IN Israel is more loathsome than anything you see elsewhere.