New OPM memo on RTO

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is this going to affect contractors as well?

Yes our contractors are the first we'll be calling into the office.

How will there be space/seats for all these people??

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This group is angrier than the divorced women in the relationship section of the site.

3 out of 10. Take a break and come back when you’ve got better material.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn't have school aged kids before telework so what did people do? Did people put their kids in before/aftercare/camps/school for 10 hours a day? How did people find time for extracurriculars if elementary kids are in aftercare until 5:30-6?

My kids were not yet school aged when COVID started so they were still in daycare/preschool. But even before COVID DH and I both teleworked multiple days per week so that at least one of us was home. Usually the commuting spouse would do morning drop off since they had to head out anyway and then the teleworking parent would do pickup so the kids didn’t have to be there past 5.

I think a lot of parents of school aged kids teleworked at least hybrid before COVID. It’s not like March 2020 marked the invention of WAH. For those who need longer hours, they use aftercare, but staffing has gotten harder in the childcare sector so spots are limited with long waitlists. Or maybe if you’re lucky you can find a martial arts type place that has a van to do school pickup and take them to do activities.

I also think a lot of the parents were just not in the workforce or were underemployed. I guess this administration thinks that is preferable to go back to.

My kids a now in extracurriculars starting as early as 4:30/5. To keep them in we’d have to take leave some days, use carpools, stagger hours, not really sure yet … thankfully my DH’s private sector job has been remote since 2018 and his colleagues are scattered across the country with no office to go to, so I guess he would have to take on more of the kid shuffling at home if I go back 5 days (holding out hope my agency’s CBA holds). I would try to jump ship out of government quickly though if forced to commute 5 days/week.

The schedule and juggling you describe is very normal. My husband is 5x/week and I am remote and do more juggling, but I can’t do it all while working during the day, so we have a nanny who helps after school with driving while I am working. Millions of people do this and it is not fun, but it is the norm.

Let me guess, either you don’t live in the DC area, or your husband is a high earner in the private sector. My husband and I are both feds and would not be able to afford a nanny to drive our two elementary aged kids to activities.

As others have mentioned camps alone offer garbage hours and after care to add on another $200 to a camp week that already costs $500 is cost prohibitive.

Our kids were 2 and 5 when Covid hit and we sucked it up and maintained our work performance and duties even though it felt impossible. We had no help. This feels like a real “f you” after we have been dedicated career civil servants over many years for different administrations.

We don’t have a problem with returning to the office, but, the extremism is the issue. Why strip people of flexibilities they had prior to Covid? Why suggest total eradication of telework? If we can even keep 1-2 days per week that will help most people feel like they can stay a little sane and manage all of their work/life balances and priorities.

Its tone deaf to act like this is a brand new and insurmountable problem. Many people are working in person for the last few years, many of them have kids, and many of them are not high earners.

Before and after care exists for a reason. If you cant flex your schedule you use it. And stop signing up for activities that start before 6pm.

No one cares, you worthless troll. This is not a campaign website. People are under no obligation to smile politely while the orange insurrectionist marches in and spits all over them.

Ridiculous overreaction to a good point. DP

Your children don’t need to do extracurriculars at 5 pm! Why are you getting mad at someone who pays a babysitter to watch and drive children around for a few hours after school because they have to work during that time when for years you have not been working during that time? Maybe check your privilege and consider other families make sacrifices financially to pay for childcare from 3:30-5:30 while you just stopped working at 3:30. Check your own privilege. It’s actually really rare to not have to pay for any after school care for elementary aged kids when both parents work.

I’m sorry you think it was a “privilege” for me to graduate college with honors and a super high LSAT score, receive scholarships to a number of highly ranked law schools, serve as editor of a law journal, clerk for a year and then use my qualifications to land a flexible government job in lieu of making private sector pay.

Do you really think that anyone who has something you don’t (whether the ability to work flexible hours, or make huge bonuses, or have a client expense account, or whatever it is) is more privileged than you? Or could it be that they worked hard and made strategic decisions?

You are welcome to have followed the same career path. Oh and I come from a very working class family, no lawyers in my family. I had to bust my butt through school for all of this.

I have never read such a narcissistic post about…childcare? Is this about childcare? I think the only biographical information you left out was your blood type.

I’m sure you’ll be able to figure out after school childcare just like the millions of people who figure it out despite the fact that they weren’t the head of the environmental law review at Fordham.

PP’s point is that there are many over-qualified feds who took the job because of the flexibility and benefits - and we wouldn’t be in the public sector without it. So making the job worse means the quality of the workforce will decrease. this is pretty basic economics.

The flexibility was never not having to worry about childcare for children below the age of about 9 - until COVID.

+100

It's insane so many Feds are short on childcare. You were never meant to work with your kids under your care while you work.

This line is getting really tired. I don't need childcare if I don't have a commute. I do now that I will be spending several extra hours a day in traffic.

Not tired. TRUE!!!!!!!!!!!!

Where do your kids go to school that they are out of your house for 8.5 hours?

My kid is in aftercare at school. But even if I maxed out aftercare I'd still be unable to do a commute, full workday, and commute.

Why? Because you moved too far out??????? Exactly. Time to move closer.

We bought our house pre-COVID. It is an hour away from my office. It's a four bedroom townhouse, where two of the bedrooms are too small for anything but a twin bed. It was what we could afford at the time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is this going to affect contractors as well?

Yes our contractors are the first we'll be calling into the office.

How will there be space/seats for all these people??

Opposite at our place! With all the feds required to come in, contractors who have seats are going to have to give them up if they can work from home. Being a contractor is looking better and better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn't have school aged kids before telework so what did people do? Did people put their kids in before/aftercare/camps/school for 10 hours a day? How did people find time for extracurriculars if elementary kids are in aftercare until 5:30-6?

My kids were not yet school aged when COVID started so they were still in daycare/preschool. But even before COVID DH and I both teleworked multiple days per week so that at least one of us was home. Usually the commuting spouse would do morning drop off since they had to head out anyway and then the teleworking parent would do pickup so the kids didn’t have to be there past 5.

I think a lot of parents of school aged kids teleworked at least hybrid before COVID. It’s not like March 2020 marked the invention of WAH. For those who need longer hours, they use aftercare, but staffing has gotten harder in the childcare sector so spots are limited with long waitlists. Or maybe if you’re lucky you can find a martial arts type place that has a van to do school pickup and take them to do activities.

I also think a lot of the parents were just not in the workforce or were underemployed. I guess this administration thinks that is preferable to go back to.

My kids a now in extracurriculars starting as early as 4:30/5. To keep them in we’d have to take leave some days, use carpools, stagger hours, not really sure yet … thankfully my DH’s private sector job has been remote since 2018 and his colleagues are scattered across the country with no office to go to, so I guess he would have to take on more of the kid shuffling at home if I go back 5 days (holding out hope my agency’s CBA holds). I would try to jump ship out of government quickly though if forced to commute 5 days/week.

The schedule and juggling you describe is very normal. My husband is 5x/week and I am remote and do more juggling, but I can’t do it all while working during the day, so we have a nanny who helps after school with driving while I am working. Millions of people do this and it is not fun, but it is the norm.

Let me guess, either you don’t live in the DC area, or your husband is a high earner in the private sector. My husband and I are both feds and would not be able to afford a nanny to drive our two elementary aged kids to activities.

As others have mentioned camps alone offer garbage hours and after care to add on another $200 to a camp week that already costs $500 is cost prohibitive.

Our kids were 2 and 5 when Covid hit and we sucked it up and maintained our work performance and duties even though it felt impossible. We had no help. This feels like a real “f you” after we have been dedicated career civil servants over many years for different administrations.

We don’t have a problem with returning to the office, but, the extremism is the issue. Why strip people of flexibilities they had prior to Covid? Why suggest total eradication of telework? If we can even keep 1-2 days per week that will help most people feel like they can stay a little sane and manage all of their work/life balances and priorities.

Its tone deaf to act like this is a brand new and insurmountable problem. Many people are working in person for the last few years, many of them have kids, and many of them are not high earners.

Before and after care exists for a reason. If you cant flex your schedule you use it. And stop signing up for activities that start before 6pm.

No one cares, you worthless troll. This is not a campaign website. People are under no obligation to smile politely while the orange insurrectionist marches in and spits all over them.

Ridiculous overreaction to a good point. DP

Your children don’t need to do extracurriculars at 5 pm! Why are you getting mad at someone who pays a babysitter to watch and drive children around for a few hours after school because they have to work during that time when for years you have not been working during that time? Maybe check your privilege and consider other families make sacrifices financially to pay for childcare from 3:30-5:30 while you just stopped working at 3:30. Check your own privilege. It’s actually really rare to not have to pay for any after school care for elementary aged kids when both parents work.

I’m sorry you think it was a “privilege” for me to graduate college with honors and a super high LSAT score, receive scholarships to a number of highly ranked law schools, serve as editor of a law journal, clerk for a year and then use my qualifications to land a flexible government job in lieu of making private sector pay.

Do you really think that anyone who has something you don’t (whether the ability to work flexible hours, or make huge bonuses, or have a client expense account, or whatever it is) is more privileged than you? Or could it be that they worked hard and made strategic decisions?

You are welcome to have followed the same career path. Oh and I come from a very working class family, no lawyers in my family. I had to bust my butt through school for all of this.

I have never read such a narcissistic post about…childcare? Is this about childcare? I think the only biographical information you left out was your blood type.

I’m sure you’ll be able to figure out after school childcare just like the millions of people who figure it out despite the fact that they weren’t the head of the environmental law review at Fordham.

PP’s point is that there are many over-qualified feds who took the job because of the flexibility and benefits - and we wouldn’t be in the public sector without it. So making the job worse means the quality of the workforce will decrease. this is pretty basic economics.

The flexibility was never not having to worry about childcare for children below the age of about 9 - until COVID.

+100

It's insane so many Feds are short on childcare. You were never meant to work with your kids under your care while you work.

This line is getting really tired. I don't need childcare if I don't have a commute. I do now that I will be spending several extra hours a day in traffic.

Not tired. TRUE!!!!!!!!!!!!

Where do your kids go to school that they are out of your house for 8.5 hours?

My kid is in aftercare at school. But even if I maxed out aftercare I'd still be unable to do a commute, full workday, and commute.

Why? Because you moved too far out??????? Exactly. Time to move closer.

You think a 30 minute commute in DC traffic is excessive?

So commute. You're not the first to have to do it and stop complaining. Feds are going to make this too much of a thing.

You are really a bitter harpy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s called before care and after school, provided at the school. Starting at 7 am in the morning and ending at 5 pm in the evening.

And every single one has a waitlist that is years long. Try again.

Actually, no. They've been underutilized since the pandemic and WFH.

False. Try again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Did SSA says they are following the RtO memo— which has a carve out for following the law, and therefore CBAs? Or that 100% of staff would be coming in, screw the CHA? Big difference.

not sure why someone won't just post the language of the email, but from what i've seen it seems that all they did was send out the "will fully comply" email that was requested in the OPM memo: "The agency head or acting agency head should email all employees notifying them of President Trump’s PM Return to In-Person Work, attach a copy of the PM, and notify employees of the agency’s intention to fully comply with the PM."

but since the memo also says that "OPM recommends that agencies set a target date of approximately 30 days for full compliance with the PM, subject to any exclusions granted by the agency and any collective bargaining obligations" so full compliance doens't necessarily mean that they will ignore the CBA.

[Anonymous]

This really doesn’t affect me. I live 25
Min from the office, my kids are in aftercare/camps, therefore I can go back to the office everyday starting tomorrow. However, I am highly protective/efficient, I work 9-10 hrs at home. I will be in the office 8hrs and will work 4, then I will spend the other 4 hrs socializing. If you think that I don’t work then I won’t work. But I am not leaving my job.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did SSA says they are following the RtO memo— which has a carve out for following the law, and therefore CBAs? Or that 100% of staff would be coming in, screw the CHA? Big difference.

not sure why someone won't just post the language of the email, but from what i've seen it seems that all they did was send out the "will fully comply" email that was requested in the OPM memo: "The agency head or acting agency head should email all employees notifying them of President Trump’s PM Return to In-Person Work, attach a copy of the PM, and notify employees of the agency’s intention to fully comply with the PM."

but since the memo also says that "OPM recommends that agencies set a target date of approximately 30 days for full compliance with the PM, subject to any exclusions granted by the agency and any collective bargaining obligations" so full compliance doens't necessarily mean that they will ignore the CBA.

Yeah, the email is in that vein

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s called before care and after school, provided at the school. Starting at 7 am in the morning and ending at 5 pm in the evening.

And every single one has a waitlist that is years long. Try again.

There are always options outside of school. You need to try harder.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s called before care and after school, provided at the school. Starting at 7 am in the morning and ending at 5 pm in the evening.

And every single one has a waitlist that is years long. Try again.

Actually, no. They've been underutilized since the pandemic and WFH.

False. Try again.

You just wanted to save money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s called before care and after school, provided at the school. Starting at 7 am in the morning and ending at 5 pm in the evening.

And every single one has a waitlist that is years long. Try again.

There are always options outside of school. You need to try harder.

Not in Arl. For years, they always were able to hire more people for extended day, so there was no market for outside options. Now they do not have any way to make up the staff and so most schools have a long waitlist, but no businesses are venturing for a pick up at the school yet

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s called before care and after school, provided at the school. Starting at 7 am in the morning and ending at 5 pm in the evening.

And every single one has a waitlist that is years long. Try again.

Actually, no. They've been underutilized since the pandemic and WFH.

False. Try again.

You just wanted to save money.

So you admit the childcare doesn’t exist?

[Anonymous]

I’m at a private company that did RTO about a year ago. I agree this is all dumb and performative, but it won’t actually be that bad. Everyone at my company just leaves at 3:30-4 to get kids, beat traffic, etc. It’s technically not allowed but all the managers look the other way because they are doing the same thing. I work fewer hours than I used to even though total time commitment with the commute is about the same.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did SSA says they are following the RtO memo— which has a carve out for following the law, and therefore CBAs? Or that 100% of staff would be coming in, screw the CHA? Big difference.

not sure why someone won't just post the language of the email, but from what i've seen it seems that all they did was send out the "will fully comply" email that was requested in the OPM memo: "The agency head or acting agency head should email all employees notifying them of President Trump’s PM Return to In-Person Work, attach a copy of the PM, and notify employees of the agency’s intention to fully comply with the PM."

but since the memo also says that "OPM recommends that agencies set a target date of approximately 30 days for full compliance with the PM, subject to any exclusions granted by the agency and any collective bargaining obligations" so full compliance doens't necessarily mean that they will ignore the CBA.

Yeah, the email is in that vein

THANK YOU!

— SSA employee who is out of the country this week and can’t access email, but is covered under the CBA. There is a huge difference between “will comply with Trump’s order” and “will ignore the CBA”. The CBA should still carry the day, but it’s going to be a lot easier if they don’t just ignore it and need an injunction. At SSA, a difference that affects 42,000 people. I feel terrible for our managers, but they have known for at least 2 months they would likely have to come in everyday. Rank and file has felt somewhat protected by the CBA.

“SSA killed telework” guy may have fun trolling, but the misinformation and lies suck. If 42,000 employees out of. 60,000 have telework, it is not dead.