NFL Kicker Harrison Butker’s unhinged commencement speech

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you were offered fed by his speech that’s fine it wasn’t intended for you.

The reaction he got from his intended audience was overwhelmingly positive.

He’s a Christian, who gave a speech full of Christian values to a Christian college with Christian students. Both women and men were in the crowd and he got a standing ovation. If you’re offended it’s because you’re were the intended audience or you’re. It ready to come to terms with what he was saying is truth. He wasn’t saying that a women’s only purpose was to be in the kitchen as you might have seen in the 60 second edited clip of his full 20-30 min speech. He addressed men as well and said how important their role was as well. He spoke truth to the fact that most people will find more value in their family life than anything else because the people you love and care about are more important than any degree.

The only ones mad or pressed about this is the man-hating women who seem to be in abundance here and on social media, and the sycophantic men who are trying to preach feminism in order to try to get dates. Most everyone else who works, strives to be better and have a family see what he said as a basic truth and something they agree with in terms of values.

Those who disagree can have their viewpoint but it doesn’t matter, he wasn’t speaking to you or about you so you can go on knowing that. It doesn’t matter how many “I will chose the bear over the man” memes you post in your social media, it doesn’t change the fact that you’re not the one he or any of the people who likes his speech would be looking at for a relationship anyways

+ a million
Finally, someone sane.

-a million

The nuns who started the college is speaking at disagree with him.

Anybody who agrees with him is extremely ignorant of Catholic teachings.

I'm not Catholic and couldn't care less about Catholic "teachings." He said a lot of things that were true, regardless of religion at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the ones who remain uncritical and accepting of this AHole's speech..

This guy said a lot of things and maybe you agree with most of it and don't believe it was offensive. However, what he DID SAY EXACTLY was that:

Women have their place in the world and that is as a homemaker. Someone who should NOT have a career/NOT make a career an option and only aspire to be a mother and wife.

For this alone, it's offensive. There were women in this school who intend to use their degrees they just received to build a career. How do you actually defend his speech in the context of this? That it's a conservative Christian school is irrelevant because his speech was not just about Christianity but specifically demeaning all female students in the audience - he's suggesting they not only wasted their time but are garbage for even considering having a career.

I mean, it's not about his entire speech that matters. No matter how you slice it and dice it about whether what he said was on pointe about Christianity, his words about women are an indisputable insult to the female audience and that in itself is outrageous. That those who defend him don't even see this or care about this is what is wrong with our society.

That is NOT exactly what he said.

Here is what he said, emphasis added:

“ How many of you are sitting here now about to cross this stage and are thinking about all the promotions and titles you are going to get in your career? Some of you may go on to lead successful careers in the world, [/b]but I would venture to guess that the majority of you are most excited about your marriage and the children you will bring into this world.”

***
“ I can tell you that my beautiful wife, Isabelle, would be the first to say that her life truly started when she began living her vocation as a wife and as a mother.”

As a woman who was once 21 and as the mother of a 21 y.o. female college student, I can guarantee you that the last thing the vast majority of college-educated women that age are thinking about is marriage and children. Who is he to speak for the "majority" of women?

DP. I was once a 22-year-old college graduate with an idea of what I wanted my life to look like. It included a job, a husband, and children. And the part of that I was MOST excited about was - you guessed it - my future family. I would say you were in the distinct minority if those weren't things that were [b]top of mind for you and your future.

Uh no. Definitely not "top of mind" for most recent grads. DP.

Uh yes. Maybe not you, but many young women (and men!) are thinking about their future spouse/family when they graduate and go out into the working world. They may not talk about it, but of course they're thinking about future possibilities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you were offered fed by his speech that’s fine it wasn’t intended for you.

The reaction he got from his intended audience was overwhelmingly positive.

He’s a Christian, who gave a speech full of Christian values to a Christian college with Christian students. Both women and men were in the crowd and he got a standing ovation. If you’re offended it’s because you’re were the intended audience or you’re. It ready to come to terms with what he was saying is truth. He wasn’t saying that a women’s only purpose was to be in the kitchen as you might have seen in the 60 second edited clip of his full 20-30 min speech. He addressed men as well and said how important their role was as well. He spoke truth to the fact that most people will find more value in their family life than anything else because the people you love and care about are more important than any degree.

The only ones mad or pressed about this is the man-hating women who seem to be in abundance here and on social media, and the sycophantic men who are trying to preach feminism in order to try to get dates. Most everyone else who works, strives to be better and have a family see what he said as a basic truth and something they agree with in terms of values.

Those who disagree can have their viewpoint but it doesn’t matter, he wasn’t speaking to you or about you so you can go on knowing that. It doesn’t matter how many “I will chose the bear over the man” memes you post in your social media, it doesn’t change the fact that you’re not the one he or any of the people who likes his speech would be looking at for a relationship anyways

+ a million
Finally, someone sane.

-a million

The nuns who started the college is speaking at disagree with him.

Anybody who agrees with him is extremely ignorant of Catholic teachings.

I'm not Catholic and couldn't care less about Catholic "teachings." He said a lot of things that were true, regardless of religion at all.

Like all propaganda he said a few truths and a bunch of lies. Your his target audience… ignorant and clueless.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:All the man did was remind people that they need to know their roles. When raising children someone should be home with them during their formative years and that both parents have roles to fulfill.

Pretty rigid in defining those roles tho bro. And letting women who decide to or must work outside of the home know they are lesser than. Not cool.

Men are perfectly capable of being homemakers and should have that choice without condemnation they are violating the “natural order.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the ones who remain uncritical and accepting of this AHole's speech..

This guy said a lot of things and maybe you agree with most of it and don't believe it was offensive. However, what he DID SAY EXACTLY was that:

Women have their place in the world and that is as a homemaker. Someone who should NOT have a career/NOT make a career an option and only aspire to be a mother and wife.

For this alone, it's offensive. There were women in this school who intend to use their degrees they just received to build a career. How do you actually defend his speech in the context of this? That it's a conservative Christian school is irrelevant because his speech was not just about Christianity but specifically demeaning all female students in the audience - he's suggesting they not only wasted their time but are garbage for even considering having a career.

I mean, it's not about his entire speech that matters. No matter how you slice it and dice it about whether what he said was on pointe about Christianity, his words about women are an indisputable insult to the female audience and that in itself is outrageous. That those who defend him don't even see this or care about this is what is wrong with our society.

This is absolute BS. If you're going to claim something was "EXACTLY what he said," then quote his EXACT words. Here, let me help you:

"For the ladies present today, congratulations on an amazing accomplishment. You should be proud of all that you have achieved to this point in your young lives. I want to speak directly to you briefly because I think it is you, the women, who have had the most diabolical lies told to you. How many of you are sitting here now about to cross this stage and are thinking about all the promotions and titles you are going to get in your career? Some of you may go on to lead successful careers in the world, but I would venture to guess that the majority of you are most excited about your marriage and the children you will bring into this world."

He in no way was saying that women's place is as a homemaker and only a homemaker. He acknowledged that many will probably be leading successful careers in the future. He's simply saying that the greatest achievement is having a family. That doesn't preclude working. I would find it mighty strange if ANY parent claimed their greatest achievement was their career, and not their family. YMMV, but at least quote him correctly.

Why are women singled out for this? Why not men? Why did he define their roles so rigidly? He did not say “men and women you have been told lies - your jobs are not as important as being homemakers and parents.” It was the old trodden gender roles - women as homemakers men as breadwinners. Tiresome.

And many people choose not to have children. They are also fine choosing that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Why do you folks always put Bill Maher out there as if he's someone to listen to? Really, I'd like to know why anyone cares about what Bill Maher says. What authority does he have for me to care about his opinion?

I'm sure you tout John Oliver as "someone to listen to," amirite? How about Rachel Maddow? Yep, thought so.

Nope you-r-wrong. Never watch Rachel Maddow. Don’t have cable and don’t like that kind of partisan shtick from either side. Have never “touted” her or John Oliver as someone to listen to. Not once.

I will say I find John Oliver funny. He’s a comedian though. Not everyone’s cup of tea and that is fine.

Care to defend your “touting” of Bill Maher and why anyone should care about his opinion? Apparently you can’t since you refused to answer the question.

[Anonymous]

So his wife was pregnant when they got married?

[Anonymous]

When I was graduating the LAST thing I was thinking about was marriage and children.


I was thinking jobs and travel and getting an apartment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the ones who remain uncritical and accepting of this AHole's speech..

This guy said a lot of things and maybe you agree with most of it and don't believe it was offensive. However, what he DID SAY EXACTLY was that:

Women have their place in the world and that is as a homemaker. Someone who should NOT have a career/NOT make a career an option and only aspire to be a mother and wife.

For this alone, it's offensive. There were women in this school who intend to use their degrees they just received to build a career. How do you actually defend his speech in the context of this? That it's a conservative Christian school is irrelevant because his speech was not just about Christianity but specifically demeaning all female students in the audience - he's suggesting they not only wasted their time but are garbage for even considering having a career.

I mean, it's not about his entire speech that matters. No matter how you slice it and dice it about whether what he said was on pointe about Christianity, his words about women are an indisputable insult to the female audience and that in itself is outrageous. That those who defend him don't even see this or care about this is what is wrong with our society.

This is absolute BS. If you're going to claim something was "EXACTLY what he said," then quote his EXACT words. Here, let me help you:

"For the ladies present today, congratulations on an amazing accomplishment. You should be proud of all that you have achieved to this point in your young lives. I want to speak directly to you briefly because I think it is you, the women, who have had the most diabolical lies told to you. How many of you are sitting here now about to cross this stage and are thinking about all the promotions and titles you are going to get in your career? Some of you may go on to lead successful careers in the world, but I would venture to guess that the majority of you are most excited about your marriage and the children you will bring into this world."

He in no way was saying that women's place is as a homemaker and only a homemaker. He acknowledged that many will probably be leading successful careers in the future. He's simply saying that the greatest achievement is having a family. That doesn't preclude working. I would find it mighty strange if ANY parent claimed their greatest achievement was their career, and not their family. YMMV, but at least quote him correctly.

Why are women singled out for this? Why not men? Why did he define their roles so rigidly? He did not say “men and women you have been told lies - your jobs are not as important as being homemakers and parents.” It was the old trodden gender roles - women as homemakers men as breadwinners. Tiresome.

And many people choose not to have children. They are also fine choosing that.

Yup, this ^^.

He’s asking women to make a patriarchal bargain, like his good wife did. He holds her up in public, and she gains small p power. He’s showing women that if they, too, make the bargain to stand with men, that men will lift them up. Google this phenomenon.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the ones who remain uncritical and accepting of this AHole's speech..

This guy said a lot of things and maybe you agree with most of it and don't believe it was offensive. However, what he DID SAY EXACTLY was that:

Women have their place in the world and that is as a homemaker. Someone who should NOT have a career/NOT make a career an option and only aspire to be a mother and wife.

For this alone, it's offensive. There were women in this school who intend to use their degrees they just received to build a career. How do you actually defend his speech in the context of this? That it's a conservative Christian school is irrelevant because his speech was not just about Christianity but specifically demeaning all female students in the audience - he's suggesting they not only wasted their time but are garbage for even considering having a career.

I mean, it's not about his entire speech that matters. No matter how you slice it and dice it about whether what he said was on pointe about Christianity, his words about women are an indisputable insult to the female audience and that in itself is outrageous. That those who defend him don't even see this or care about this is what is wrong with our society.

This is absolute BS. If you're going to claim something was "EXACTLY what he said," then quote his EXACT words. Here, let me help you:

"For the ladies present today, congratulations on an amazing accomplishment. You should be proud of all that you have achieved to this point in your young lives. I want to speak directly to you briefly because I think it is you, the women, who have had the most diabolical lies told to you. How many of you are sitting here now about to cross this stage and are thinking about all the promotions and titles you are going to get in your career? Some of you may go on to lead successful careers in the world, but I would venture to guess that the majority of you are most excited about your marriage and the children you will bring into this world."

He in no way was saying that women's place is as a homemaker and only a homemaker. He acknowledged that many will probably be leading successful careers in the future. He's simply saying that the greatest achievement is having a family. That doesn't preclude working. I would find it mighty strange if ANY parent claimed their greatest achievement was their career, and not their family. YMMV, but at least quote him correctly.

Why are women singled out for this? Why not men? Why did he define their roles so rigidly? He did not say “men and women you have been told lies - your jobs are not as important as being homemakers and parents.” It was the old trodden gender roles - women as homemakers men as breadwinners. Tiresome.

And many people choose not to have children. They are also fine choosing that.

He said

“She is the one who ensures I never let football or my business become a distraction from that of a husband and father.”

So what if a woman wants to be a homemaker?

Many women, including well educated high earning leftists on this site choose to be homemakers.

So what? Some people prefer traditional gender roles and others don’t.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the ones who remain uncritical and accepting of this AHole's speech..

This guy said a lot of things and maybe you agree with most of it and don't believe it was offensive. However, what he DID SAY EXACTLY was that:

Women have their place in the world and that is as a homemaker. Someone who should NOT have a career/NOT make a career an option and only aspire to be a mother and wife.

For this alone, it's offensive. There were women in this school who intend to use their degrees they just received to build a career. How do you actually defend his speech in the context of this? That it's a conservative Christian school is irrelevant because his speech was not just about Christianity but specifically demeaning all female students in the audience - he's suggesting they not only wasted their time but are garbage for even considering having a career.

I mean, it's not about his entire speech that matters. No matter how you slice it and dice it about whether what he said was on pointe about Christianity, his words about women are an indisputable insult to the female audience and that in itself is outrageous. That those who defend him don't even see this or care about this is what is wrong with our society.

This is absolute BS. If you're going to claim something was "EXACTLY what he said," then quote his EXACT words. Here, let me help you:

"For the ladies present today, congratulations on an amazing accomplishment. You should be proud of all that you have achieved to this point in your young lives. I want to speak directly to you briefly because I think it is you, the women, who have had the most diabolical lies told to you. How many of you are sitting here now about to cross this stage and are thinking about all the promotions and titles you are going to get in your career? Some of you may go on to lead successful careers in the world, but I would venture to guess that the majority of you are most excited about your marriage and the children you will bring into this world."

He in no way was saying that women's place is as a homemaker and only a homemaker. He acknowledged that many will probably be leading successful careers in the future. He's simply saying that the greatest achievement is having a family. That doesn't preclude working. I would find it mighty strange if ANY parent claimed their greatest achievement was their career, and not their family. YMMV, but at least quote him correctly.

Why are women singled out for this? Why not men? Why did he define their roles so rigidly? He did not say “men and women you have been told lies - your jobs are not as important as being homemakers and parents.” It was the old trodden gender roles - women as homemakers men as breadwinners. Tiresome.

And many people choose not to have children. They are also fine choosing that.

He said

“She is the one who ensures I never let football or my business become a distraction from that of a husband and father.”

So what if a woman wants to be a homemaker?

Many women, including well educated high earning leftists on this site choose to be homemakers.

So what? Some people prefer traditional gender roles and others don’t.

You don’t find that sad that he would be distracted dad if she wasn’t around? This board is full of women complaining about this day after day after day….

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the ones who remain uncritical and accepting of this AHole's speech..

This guy said a lot of things and maybe you agree with most of it and don't believe it was offensive. However, what he DID SAY EXACTLY was that:

Women have their place in the world and that is as a homemaker. Someone who should NOT have a career/NOT make a career an option and only aspire to be a mother and wife.

For this alone, it's offensive. There were women in this school who intend to use their degrees they just received to build a career. How do you actually defend his speech in the context of this? That it's a conservative Christian school is irrelevant because his speech was not just about Christianity but specifically demeaning all female students in the audience - he's suggesting they not only wasted their time but are garbage for even considering having a career.

I mean, it's not about his entire speech that matters. No matter how you slice it and dice it about whether what he said was on pointe about Christianity, his words about women are an indisputable insult to the female audience and that in itself is outrageous. That those who defend him don't even see this or care about this is what is wrong with our society.

This is absolute BS. If you're going to claim something was "EXACTLY what he said," then quote his EXACT words. Here, let me help you:

"For the ladies present today, congratulations on an amazing accomplishment. You should be proud of all that you have achieved to this point in your young lives. I want to speak directly to you briefly because I think it is you, the women, who have had the most diabolical lies told to you. How many of you are sitting here now about to cross this stage and are thinking about all the promotions and titles you are going to get in your career? Some of you may go on to lead successful careers in the world, but I would venture to guess that the majority of you are most excited about your marriage and the children you will bring into this world."

He in no way was saying that women's place is as a homemaker and only a homemaker. He acknowledged that many will probably be leading successful careers in the future. He's simply saying that the greatest achievement is having a family. That doesn't preclude working. I would find it mighty strange if ANY parent claimed their greatest achievement was their career, and not their family. YMMV, but at least quote him correctly.

Why are women singled out for this? Why not men? Why did he define their roles so rigidly? He did not say “men and women you have been told lies - your jobs are not as important as being homemakers and parents.” It was the old trodden gender roles - women as homemakers men as breadwinners. Tiresome.

And many people choose not to have children. They are also fine choosing that.

He said

“She is the one who ensures I never let football or my business become a distraction from that of a husband and father.”

So what if a woman wants to be a homemaker?

Many women, including well educated high earning leftists on this site choose to be homemakers.

So what? Some people prefer traditional gender roles and others don’t.

well that’s not what Butker said. He said it is a “diabolical lie” not to prefer traditional gender roles.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When I was graduating the LAST thing I was thinking about was marriage and children.


I was thinking jobs and travel and getting an apartment.

+1 I was no way ready to be a wife or mother at that age, not even thinking about it. I would've been a terrible mother and wife at that age. Hard enough in my 30s.

And what's with the "men don't be afraid to embrace your masculinity"? What is that about ? What does that mean? Does it mean, "Men, don't be pushed into thinking you have to do housechores or childcare because that's woman's work".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Catholic dude saying catholic thing, at catholic school?

oh my

except the Catholic nuns disagree with him. I guess they aren't real Catholics.

Eh. They are all real Catholics. There are some basic principles and doctrine Catholics are supposed to agree with (or at least not publicly dissent from), but open debate on the rest is fine.

So the quip about a "Catholic dude saying catholic thing, at catholic school" can be debated since not all real Catholics agree with him.

Sure. Debating what he said is fair game. But it goes too far to say someone is not a real Catholic because he does not have the same views as you on matters that are not core required beliefs.

I would have changed what was said above to "Catholic dude saying his Catholic thing, at Catholic school"

You missed the part where he speaks against basic Catholic teachings. So yeah, the dude is a Catholic, but he’s similar to a Catholic that had an abortion For convenience , or got divorced, and hold them up as good Catholic teachings.

Which basic principles or doctrines did he speak against? Did he say anything contrary to the Nicene Creed? Did he publicly doubt the concept of original sin or sin itself? Did he question the sacraments or the authority of the Pope? Did he speak out against transubstantiation?

NFP and what roles women should play or not in the world simply are not basic doctrine. Having very non-mainstream views on those things are not a sin, but an abortion of convenience is. And he did not present his kooky takes as Catholic teaching, but his views.

Yes, he did say something against Catholic preaching. Jesus Christ for f**k sake. If you don’t see it, you’re not a Catholic.

There is no way you are Catholic and you didn’t see that.

I wish non-Catholics would stop commenting on this thread because they are so incredibly ignorant. It’s almost impossible to speak to them about the subject.

I am the Catholic you are calling a non-Catholic. If you are Catholic, I question your Catholic education as you don't seem to understand the wide latitude the Church gives for personal views on matters that are not core doctrine. I did think the guy almost verged into Calvinism at one point, which I thought was questionable.

DP. I don’t know the canon definition of heresy but he certainly said a lot of stuff that seems like it could warrant some kind of censure. Attacking priests. Attacking Humanae Vitae. Suggesting women’s vocation is to their husband and not god. Going against multiple Church pronouncements that the Jews are not guilty of the crucifixion.

Good that you prefaced this by saying you do not know the definition of heresy. Here's a good plain English article: https://www.catholicnh.org/assets/Documents/Worship/Our-Faith/Understanding/Heresy.pdf

Some examples cited of what is not heresy--the annulment point is a particularly apt comparison for what the guy said about NFP: "To insist, as some do, that the Eucharist must always be received by everyone under the forms of both bread and wine, that baptism must be done by full immersion, or that the Church should not grant annulments is not heretical. For sure, such propositions contradict established Church positions, but they do not rise to the level of heresy because they do not touch the core of Catholic faith."

What about our highest calling is to serve husbands instead of God?

I think this is the section of his speech you are referring to and he does not say that, nor, based on the speech as a whole, would I think he would say a women's highest calling is not to serve God but instead her husband. That would certainly be a contradiction of core Catholic beliefs:

"....how many of you are sitting here now about to cross the stage, and are thinking about all the promotions and titles you’re going to get in your career. Some of you may go on to lead successful careers in the world. But I would venture to guess that the majority of you are most excited about your marriage and the children you will bring into this world. I can tell you that my beautiful wife Isabelle would be the first to say that her life truly started when she began living her vocation as a wife and as a mother."

I will say I had a very negative reaction to him dragging his wife into this, but from a Catholic point of view it is okay if distasteful.

The Benedictine nuns disagree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When I was graduating the LAST thing I was thinking about was marriage and children.


I was thinking jobs and travel and getting an apartment.

+1 I was no way ready to be a wife or mother at that age, not even thinking about it. I would've been a terrible mother and wife at that age. Hard enough in my 30s.

And what's with the "men don't be afraid to embrace your masculinity"? What is that about ? What does that mean? Does it mean, "Men, don't be pushed into thinking you have to do housechores or childcare because that's woman's work".

Any time male celebrities/politicians/etc on the right start talking loudly and publicly about traditional gender roles and "masculinity," they instantly set off my gaydar. At some level they're addressing male anxiety about changing gender roles and expectations in the modern era, but the loudest of them seem to be playing out in public some internal issues. Check out this photo of Butker and his supposed buddy Josh Hawley (who wrote "Manhood: The Masculine Virtues America Needs"). Men, regardless of their sexuality, do not need lessons in "masculinity" from these two or anyone else thank you very much.

https://www.queerty.com/josh-hawley-posts-pic-with-harrison-butker-to-flaunt-his-masculinity-but-it-looks-like-something-else-is-going-on-20240517