Looks like a new Gaza war has started

[Anonymous]

It's still unclear to me why Hamas chose to do this. Israel has been out of Gaza for twenty years. By causing more than 2000 casualties in one day alone - mass murders of families and communities, raping and abducting women, kidnapping the elderly and small children - they know very well that Israel will have no choice but to respond extremely forcefully. Nearly 150,000 reservists were called up to duty today. That's nearly 300,000 soldiers total that Israel is gearing up for action. Of course Israel is going to level Gaza. Of course Israel is going to invade. And of course Israel is going to occupy all of Gaza for the next 50 years. No one in Gaza will be allowed anywhere near the border for generations.

This operation cost the people of Gaza everything. Soon, they're going to start dying. Their homes will be destroyed. Economic life in Gaza, such as it is, will come to an end. It's going to be decades of checkpoints and curfews and misery. And since everyone in the Middle East hates Palestinians - the brought Black September to Jordan, civil war to Lebanon, and supported Saddam Hussein's invasion of Kuwait - they have nowhere to go. No country is taking in the people of Gaza.

Breathtakingly stupid people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Leon Panetta on cnn just now said over-reliance on technology intelligence allowed Hamas to avoid detection. The intelligence system in Israel failed, and human intelligence is needed.

No question that Israel will take action, particularly given the hostages taken. This will be a prolonged war.

Re: US role - our special relationship will likely prompt intelligence and military support. It will be a complicated effort.

Re: history - going back to 1948, we’ve had 7 decades of war and failed efforts for peace. This last year brought increased tension. Hamas took a dramatic step nobody saw coming. It’s a wake up call to hamas as well as Iran, hezbollah, etc.

Leon Panetta? He hasn't been in the government in 10 years. And gee whiz, I wonder why Israel doesn't just send a bunch of agents into Gaza. I can't imagine why that sort of thing would be difficult. And yeah, it's pretty obvious that this was an intelligence failure.

If Panetta actually used the term special relationship then he ought to hang it up. Despite cooperation on defense and intelligence, there's only one of those and it's not with Israel.

Yes, you are right, PP.

You obviously know more than Leon Panetta. Thank goodness we have you to weigh in.

Leon Panetta is a yes man, dumbass.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion about Panetta.

But it’s hilarious that a random guy thinks he knows more about anything related to Israel than Leon given his decades of service and access to intel during complicated periods in history. I mean, as if.

Your over-abundance of confidence is cute.

First, I'm a woman. So your assumptions are, what is it you said? Oh, cute.

Second, the bolded is the point - Panetta hasn't been in service for 10 years and his access to intel from a decade or more ago means that he had access to it a decade ago. Not today. His historical opinion is interesting and valuable, but the fact that he's on CNN and not at work today means he doesn't have much, if any, insight into the current inner workings of Mossad or our own intelligence agencies.

…and the collective wisdom of randos on dcum carries more weight than Leon’s insight developed over decades.

Got it.

I mean, I always knew type A overachievers had an inflated sense of self-worth, but this is next-level hilarity.

Yes, I realize Leon isn’t currently sitting in the war room, but I still feel like the man knows far more about the complexity of Israel and Hamas than the average house frau…even though he’s retired.

Never change, Dcumlandia!

Think of it this way: behind every foreign policy blunder in the Middle East in the last 20 years - Iraq, Libya, Syria - were men with just as much experience , and they still focked it up. So what’s with this worship of panetta and co?

Nobody is worshipping Panetta.

I guess I just realize there’s no silver bullet when it comes to Israel and Palestinians, so I’m not surprised that the US hasn’t neatly resolved it. I believe we have experts balancing pros and cons; they calculate risks and make the best/least bad decision. None of this is easy.

I think it’s really weird for nobodies on dcum to think they know better than experts with all the intel as well as the burden of making decisions that make history.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Leon Panetta on cnn just now said over-reliance on technology intelligence allowed Hamas to avoid detection. The intelligence system in Israel failed, and human intelligence is needed.

No question that Israel will take action, particularly given the hostages taken. This will be a prolonged war.

Re: US role - our special relationship will likely prompt intelligence and military support. It will be a complicated effort.

Re: history - going back to 1948, we’ve had 7 decades of war and failed efforts for peace. This last year brought increased tension. Hamas took a dramatic step nobody saw coming. It’s a wake up call to hamas as well as Iran, hezbollah, etc.

Leon Panetta? He hasn't been in the government in 10 years. And gee whiz, I wonder why Israel doesn't just send a bunch of agents into Gaza. I can't imagine why that sort of thing would be difficult. And yeah, it's pretty obvious that this was an intelligence failure.

If Panetta actually used the term special relationship then he ought to hang it up. Despite cooperation on defense and intelligence, there's only one of those and it's not with Israel.

Yes, you are right, PP.

You obviously know more than Leon Panetta. Thank goodness we have you to weigh in.

Leon Panetta is a yes man, dumbass.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion about Panetta.

But it’s hilarious that a random guy thinks he knows more about anything related to Israel than Leon given his decades of service and access to intel during complicated periods in history. I mean, as if.

Your over-abundance of confidence is cute.

First, I'm a woman. So your assumptions are, what is it you said? Oh, cute.

Second, the bolded is the point - Panetta hasn't been in service for 10 years and his access to intel from a decade or more ago means that he had access to it a decade ago. Not today. His historical opinion is interesting and valuable, but the fact that he's on CNN and not at work today means he doesn't have much, if any, insight into the current inner workings of Mossad or our own intelligence agencies.

…and the collective wisdom of randos on dcum carries more weight than Leon’s insight developed over decades.

Got it.

I mean, I always knew type A overachievers had an inflated sense of self-worth, but this is next-level hilarity.

Yes, I realize Leon isn’t currently sitting in the war room, but I still feel like the man knows far more about the complexity of Israel and Hamas than the average house frau…even though he’s retired.

Never change, Dcumlandia!

Think of it this way: behind every foreign policy blunder in the Middle East in the last 20 years - Iraq, Libya, Syria - were men with just as much experience , and they still focked it up. So what’s with this worship of panetta and co?

The fact that the Panetta worshipper labeled me a "house frau" pretty much sums it up. Another retired guy that's not in charge anymore that also ought to hang it up.

[Anonymous]

Former Bolivian president expresses support for Hamas’ attack https://x.com/evoespueblo/status/1710717502152421472?s=46&t=Rw_jX1uyupQwvEwsjuQulQ

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I see we are still waiting for the Hamas supporters in this thread to find one of the many thousands of videos they claim exist of Israelis dragging the naked desecrated corpse of a young Palestinian woman through the streets while other Israelis cheer and spit on the body. Still waiting, I guess.

There are tens of thousands of videos of Palestinian children killed and maimed. Too many to count at this point. I guess we’ll just hear “Hamas started it” as Israel mows the grass.

Right. So find a video of Israelis doing the same thing as what today’s videos show. Apparently there are thousands of similar videos, according to you.

Look, this should be easy based on what you and other Hamas supporters in this thread claim. Unless, of course, you’re just lying.

Prove to me you are right. It should be easy for you to find a similar video of Israelis desecrating the naked corpse of a young Palestinian woman while other Israeli onlookers cheer on. You keep telling me thousands of these videos exist. So produce just one of them.

+1. Are there videos of collateral damage to civilians from Israeli attacks? Sure. I'm you can point to those. But I haven't once ever seen barbarism on display from the Israelis like you've seen in the last 24 hours by the Gazans. Feel free to correct us though if there are.

+1

There are many videos of the horrific results of rocket attacks with both Israeli and Palestinian children as innocent victims.

But I’ve never seen a video of Israelis acting with the level of barbarism and monstrosity as the Palestinians in today’s videos. I’ll never get what I saw out of my head, and I wish I could.

I have been a critic of Israel in the past, but this is far beyond anything I’ve ever seen from Israel before.

+1.

So far today, more than 250 Israelis have been killed and another 1400 injured. An untold amount of people - including many women - have been kidnapped and taken hostage by Palestinians. Anyone that saw the videos today of Palestinians desecrating and abusing the naked body of a dead Israeli women will be understandably worried about the fate of those hostages. They are likely to be tortured. Palestinians displayed a venal cruelty that is not often seen in the modern era. Those images will not be forgotten.

What Palestinians did today was to effectively commit national suicide. They will never have a viable, independent country. They are terrorists. When Gaza is destroyed in the months ahead, no one will lament their fate. They chose Hamas. They chose barbarity. They chose stupidity. And they will reap what they sowed. Idiots.

I’ve watched the video a few times trying to figure out whether it was the German tourist or not. I don’t know whether it was, but it doesn’t matter. It’s a ghastly scene that constitutes both a war crime and an exhibition of the basest forms of human behavior.

All of that said, I’m going to stop you when you use it as a rallying cry for genocide.

Countless bodies - civilian and belligerent - were desecrated by our forces and those of our allies in Afghanistan and Iraq. And then some. If you haven’t heard of the Mahmudiyah Incident, have a read: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmudiyah_rape_and_killings. Even for all out war, that’s some extremely evil sht. And it was all done by a US Army soldiers.

As horrific as that incident, I think you and I are grateful that no one is calling for the indiscriminate slaughter of Americans on account of the heinous actions of five soldiers. Or for those of William Laws Calley Jr. at My Lai and so on and so on.

Thugs that celebrate killing and the desecration of bodies deserve nothing less than that, but they are not all Gazans let alone all Palestinians.

I don’t remember celebrations by Americans all over the nation re: Mahmudiya rape and killings.

Americans are not living under brutal military occupation, desperate for a win at any cost to avenge their dispossession, Israeli apartheid, and death and disfigurement of generations of youth.

Desperation is ugly. I blame the people who made all Palestinian civilians this desperate as much as I blame the madmen who carried out these attacks.

We have to internalize our role in this situation.

You are disgusting. Absolutely disgusting.

I think israeli government actions are disgusting. Absolutely disgusting.

This is a kidnapped Israeli child in Gaza being passed around for Palestinian kids to bully.

The adults responsible deserve what's coming for them.

https://t.co/poikILZ3uh

Avi Yemini

https://twitter.com/OzraeliAvi/status/1710778299264487877

And they videotaped him being sexually assaulted by teens. I thought Hamas murdered anyone suspected of having anal sex, but rape is fine?

Oh my god. I am sickened by this. The poor innocent children.

Palestinians and Russians have a lot in common.

Are you sickened by the poor innocent brown children too? Or only white children matter?

Israel’s theft of Palestinian land is exactly like Russia’s theft of Ukrainian land.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I see we are still waiting for the Hamas supporters in this thread to find one of the many thousands of videos they claim exist of Israelis dragging the naked desecrated corpse of a young Palestinian woman through the streets while other Israelis cheer and spit on the body. Still waiting, I guess.

There are tens of thousands of videos of Palestinian children killed and maimed. Too many to count at this point. I guess we’ll just hear “Hamas started it” as Israel mows the grass.

Right. So find a video of Israelis doing the same thing as what today’s videos show. Apparently there are thousands of similar videos, according to you.

Look, this should be easy based on what you and other Hamas supporters in this thread claim. Unless, of course, you’re just lying.

Prove to me you are right. It should be easy for you to find a similar video of Israelis desecrating the naked corpse of a young Palestinian woman while other Israeli onlookers cheer on. You keep telling me thousands of these videos exist. So produce just one of them.

+1. Are there videos of collateral damage to civilians from Israeli attacks? Sure. I'm you can point to those. But I haven't once ever seen barbarism on display from the Israelis like you've seen in the last 24 hours by the Gazans. Feel free to correct us though if there are.

+1

There are many videos of the horrific results of rocket attacks with both Israeli and Palestinian children as innocent victims.

But I’ve never seen a video of Israelis acting with the level of barbarism and monstrosity as the Palestinians in today’s videos. I’ll never get what I saw out of my head, and I wish I could.

I have been a critic of Israel in the past, but this is far beyond anything I’ve ever seen from Israel before.

+1.

So far today, more than 250 Israelis have been killed and another 1400 injured. An untold amount of people - including many women - have been kidnapped and taken hostage by Palestinians. Anyone that saw the videos today of Palestinians desecrating and abusing the naked body of a dead Israeli women will be understandably worried about the fate of those hostages. They are likely to be tortured. Palestinians displayed a venal cruelty that is not often seen in the modern era. Those images will not be forgotten.

What Palestinians did today was to effectively commit national suicide. They will never have a viable, independent country. They are terrorists. When Gaza is destroyed in the months ahead, no one will lament their fate. They chose Hamas. They chose barbarity. They chose stupidity. And they will reap what they sowed. Idiots.

I’ve watched the video a few times trying to figure out whether it was the German tourist or not. I don’t know whether it was, but it doesn’t matter. It’s a ghastly scene that constitutes both a war crime and an exhibition of the basest forms of human behavior.

All of that said, I’m going to stop you when you use it as a rallying cry for genocide.

Countless bodies - civilian and belligerent - were desecrated by our forces and those of our allies in Afghanistan and Iraq. And then some. If you haven’t heard of the Mahmudiyah Incident, have a read: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmudiyah_rape_and_killings. Even for all out war, that’s some extremely evil sht. And it was all done by a US Army soldiers.

As horrific as that incident, I think you and I are grateful that no one is calling for the indiscriminate slaughter of Americans on account of the heinous actions of five soldiers. Or for those of William Laws Calley Jr. at My Lai and so on and so on.

Thugs that celebrate killing and the desecration of bodies deserve nothing less than that, but they are not all Gazans let alone all Palestinians.

Dear Lord. How can you be so profoundly ignorant of the many, many, many leaders, ordinary citizens, television anchors, media personalities, military generals, and others worldwide calling for the death of all Americans? The bolded is shockingly ignorant.

What kind of delusional, hippy-dippy world are you living in? What you wrote bears literally no relation to reality whatsoever.

If you are so sure that these “many, many, many, many” people exist, then you shouldn’t have any problem compiling some links for us. I’ll wait.

In the meantime, I’ll share what I’ve learned from traveling the Middle East and Asia for the past two decades and that is that ordinary people - even in countries hostile to the US - are very adept at distinguishing between their feelings toward a country’s government and its military and toward its people. As angry as they may be about American foreign policy, all but a very tiny few would ever think of taking that anger out on an American civilian.

You should traveling a bit sometime. Odds are that it would find it a much friendlier and calmer place than the likes of both Fox News and the New York Times would have you believe.

I’m positive I’ve traveled more widely and extensively than you. That’s why I’m grounded in reality, not the tourist bubble version of reality that you believe. I can see why you believe in your pink pretty bubble version of the world: you never step out of the grounds of your high-security resorts.

As for links, just start with the Wikipedia entry for “Death to America” and go from there:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_to_America

Honestly, I feel like I’m talking to a spoiled teenager. It’s a waste of my time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Leon Panetta on cnn just now said over-reliance on technology intelligence allowed Hamas to avoid detection. The intelligence system in Israel failed, and human intelligence is needed.

No question that Israel will take action, particularly given the hostages taken. This will be a prolonged war.

Re: US role - our special relationship will likely prompt intelligence and military support. It will be a complicated effort.

Re: history - going back to 1948, we’ve had 7 decades of war and failed efforts for peace. This last year brought increased tension. Hamas took a dramatic step nobody saw coming. It’s a wake up call to hamas as well as Iran, hezbollah, etc.

Leon Panetta? He hasn't been in the government in 10 years. And gee whiz, I wonder why Israel doesn't just send a bunch of agents into Gaza. I can't imagine why that sort of thing would be difficult. And yeah, it's pretty obvious that this was an intelligence failure.

If Panetta actually used the term special relationship then he ought to hang it up. Despite cooperation on defense and intelligence, there's only one of those and it's not with Israel.

Yes, you are right, PP.

You obviously know more than Leon Panetta. Thank goodness we have you to weigh in.

Leon Panetta is a yes man, dumbass.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion about Panetta.

But it’s hilarious that a random guy thinks he knows more about anything related to Israel than Leon given his decades of service and access to intel during complicated periods in history. I mean, as if.

Your over-abundance of confidence is cute.

First, I'm a woman. So your assumptions are, what is it you said? Oh, cute.

Second, the bolded is the point - Panetta hasn't been in service for 10 years and his access to intel from a decade or more ago means that he had access to it a decade ago. Not today. His historical opinion is interesting and valuable, but the fact that he's on CNN and not at work today means he doesn't have much, if any, insight into the current inner workings of Mossad or our own intelligence agencies.

…and the collective wisdom of randos on dcum carries more weight than Leon’s insight developed over decades.

Got it.

I mean, I always knew type A overachievers had an inflated sense of self-worth, but this is next-level hilarity.

Yes, I realize Leon isn’t currently sitting in the war room, but I still feel like the man knows far more about the complexity of Israel and Hamas than the average house frau…even though he’s retired.

Never change, Dcumlandia!

Think of it this way: behind every foreign policy blunder in the Middle East in the last 20 years - Iraq, Libya, Syria - were men with just as much experience , and they still focked it up. So what’s with this worship of panetta and co?

Nobody is worshipping Panetta.

I guess I just realize there’s no silver bullet when it comes to Israel and Palestinians, so I’m not surprised that the US hasn’t neatly resolved it. I believe we have experts balancing pros and cons; they calculate risks and make the best/least bad decision. None of this is easy.

I think it’s really weird for nobodies on dcum to think they know better than experts with all the intel as well as the burden of making decisions that make history.

Trump is the only one who knows what to do. These guys are like morons and Trump points it out. They hate how slow and incompetent he makes them look.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DSA NYC is having a pro Palestine rally tomorrow https://x.com/nycdsa/status/1710778425303081288?s=46&t=Rw_jX1uyupQwvEwsjuQulQ

What is DSA? Besides a pro terrorist organization?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Leon Panetta on cnn just now said over-reliance on technology intelligence allowed Hamas to avoid detection. The intelligence system in Israel failed, and human intelligence is needed.

No question that Israel will take action, particularly given the hostages taken. This will be a prolonged war.

Re: US role - our special relationship will likely prompt intelligence and military support. It will be a complicated effort.

Re: history - going back to 1948, we’ve had 7 decades of war and failed efforts for peace. This last year brought increased tension. Hamas took a dramatic step nobody saw coming. It’s a wake up call to hamas as well as Iran, hezbollah, etc.

Leon Panetta? He hasn't been in the government in 10 years. And gee whiz, I wonder why Israel doesn't just send a bunch of agents into Gaza. I can't imagine why that sort of thing would be difficult. And yeah, it's pretty obvious that this was an intelligence failure.

If Panetta actually used the term special relationship then he ought to hang it up. Despite cooperation on defense and intelligence, there's only one of those and it's not with Israel.

Yes, you are right, PP.

You obviously know more than Leon Panetta. Thank goodness we have you to weigh in.

Leon Panetta is a yes man, dumbass.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion about Panetta.

But it’s hilarious that a random guy thinks he knows more about anything related to Israel than Leon given his decades of service and access to intel during complicated periods in history. I mean, as if.

Your over-abundance of confidence is cute.

First, I'm a woman. So your assumptions are, what is it you said? Oh, cute.

Second, the bolded is the point - Panetta hasn't been in service for 10 years and his access to intel from a decade or more ago means that he had access to it a decade ago. Not today. His historical opinion is interesting and valuable, but the fact that he's on CNN and not at work today means he doesn't have much, if any, insight into the current inner workings of Mossad or our own intelligence agencies.

…and the collective wisdom of randos on dcum carries more weight than Leon’s insight developed over decades.

Got it.

I mean, I always knew type A overachievers had an inflated sense of self-worth, but this is next-level hilarity.

Yes, I realize Leon isn’t currently sitting in the war room, but I still feel like the man knows far more about the complexity of Israel and Hamas than the average house frau…even though he’s retired.

Never change, Dcumlandia!

Think of it this way: behind every foreign policy blunder in the Middle East in the last 20 years - Iraq, Libya, Syria - were men with just as much experience , and they still focked it up. So what’s with this worship of panetta and co?

Nobody is worshipping Panetta.

I guess I just realize there’s no silver bullet when it comes to Israel and Palestinians, so I’m not surprised that the US hasn’t neatly resolved it. I believe we have experts balancing pros and cons; they calculate risks and make the best/least bad decision. None of this is easy.

I think it’s really weird for nobodies on dcum to think they know better than experts with all the intel as well as the burden of making decisions that make history.

You believe in the process.

I believe in results.

I look at the decisions they make and the outcomes are terrible for everyone. So what does it matter that they are supposed experts with the best intel? They aren’t doing better than a random dumbass.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's still unclear to me why Hamas chose to do this. Israel has been out of Gaza for twenty years. By causing more than 2000 casualties in one day alone - mass murders of families and communities, raping and abducting women, kidnapping the elderly and small children - they know very well that Israel will have no choice but to respond extremely forcefully. Nearly 150,000 reservists were called up to duty today. That's nearly 300,000 soldiers total that Israel is gearing up for action. Of course Israel is going to level Gaza. Of course Israel is going to invade. And of course Israel is going to occupy all of Gaza for the next 50 years. No one in Gaza will be allowed anywhere near the border for generations.

This operation cost the people of Gaza everything. Soon, they're going to start dying. Their homes will be destroyed. Economic life in Gaza, such as it is, will come to an end. It's going to be decades of checkpoints and curfews and misery. And since everyone in the Middle East hates Palestinians - the brought Black September to Jordan, civil war to Lebanon, and supported Saddam Hussein's invasion of Kuwait - they have nowhere to go. No country is taking in the people of Gaza.

Breathtakingly stupid people.

The people of Gaza had nothing to begin with. The territory is an open air prison. The economy is non-existent and most of the population has no prospect of ever being allowed to leave. You write as if they had something to lose. They didn’t. What little hope they had was about to be sold down the river by the Saudis. Add to that what’s being going on in Jerusalem over the past few days and you have your answer. These were desperate, hopeless people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Heartbreaking segment on cnn moments ago: a young Israeli father talking about his wife, two young daughters (5 and 3), and MIL who were kidnapped by Hamas.

They played video footage of them being carted away.

Indefensible.

Occupation doesn’t warrant kidnapping women and children.

You’re not a civilian if you chose to live in occupied territories.

False.

#mapsmatter

lol what does your map of Israel show? From sea to shining sea?

If CNN, Fox, BBC, Al Jazeera, etc. can agree on the borders using the same maps, then I say we should collectively agree with those borders.

#mapsmatter

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Leon Panetta on cnn just now said over-reliance on technology intelligence allowed Hamas to avoid detection. The intelligence system in Israel failed, and human intelligence is needed.

No question that Israel will take action, particularly given the hostages taken. This will be a prolonged war.

Re: US role - our special relationship will likely prompt intelligence and military support. It will be a complicated effort.

Re: history - going back to 1948, we’ve had 7 decades of war and failed efforts for peace. This last year brought increased tension. Hamas took a dramatic step nobody saw coming. It’s a wake up call to hamas as well as Iran, hezbollah, etc.

Leon Panetta? He hasn't been in the government in 10 years. And gee whiz, I wonder why Israel doesn't just send a bunch of agents into Gaza. I can't imagine why that sort of thing would be difficult. And yeah, it's pretty obvious that this was an intelligence failure.

If Panetta actually used the term special relationship then he ought to hang it up. Despite cooperation on defense and intelligence, there's only one of those and it's not with Israel.

Yes, you are right, PP.

You obviously know more than Leon Panetta. Thank goodness we have you to weigh in.

Leon Panetta is a yes man, dumbass.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion about Panetta.

But it’s hilarious that a random guy thinks he knows more about anything related to Israel than Leon given his decades of service and access to intel during complicated periods in history. I mean, as if.

Your over-abundance of confidence is cute.

First, I'm a woman. So your assumptions are, what is it you said? Oh, cute.

Second, the bolded is the point - Panetta hasn't been in service for 10 years and his access to intel from a decade or more ago means that he had access to it a decade ago. Not today. His historical opinion is interesting and valuable, but the fact that he's on CNN and not at work today means he doesn't have much, if any, insight into the current inner workings of Mossad or our own intelligence agencies.

…and the collective wisdom of randos on dcum carries more weight than Leon’s insight developed over decades.

Got it.

I mean, I always knew type A overachievers had an inflated sense of self-worth, but this is next-level hilarity.

Yes, I realize Leon isn’t currently sitting in the war room, but I still feel like the man knows far more about the complexity of Israel and Hamas than the average house frau…even though he’s retired.

Never change, Dcumlandia!

Think of it this way: behind every foreign policy blunder in the Middle East in the last 20 years - Iraq, Libya, Syria - were men with just as much experience , and they still focked it up. So what’s with this worship of panetta and co?

Nobody is worshipping Panetta.

I guess I just realize there’s no silver bullet when it comes to Israel and Palestinians, so I’m not surprised that the US hasn’t neatly resolved it. I believe we have experts balancing pros and cons; they calculate risks and make the best/least bad decision. None of this is easy.

I think it’s really weird for nobodies on dcum to think they know better than experts with all the intel as well as the burden of making decisions that make history.

The silver bullet is holding israel to account for grave violations of human rights. That gives us a lot more power when we also hold hamas to grave violations.

I do not support Zionism. What on earth is good about it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I see we are still waiting for the Hamas supporters in this thread to find one of the many thousands of videos they claim exist of Israelis dragging the naked desecrated corpse of a young Palestinian woman through the streets while other Israelis cheer and spit on the body. Still waiting, I guess.

There are tens of thousands of videos of Palestinian children killed and maimed. Too many to count at this point. I guess we’ll just hear “Hamas started it” as Israel mows the grass.

Right. So find a video of Israelis doing the same thing as what today’s videos show. Apparently there are thousands of similar videos, according to you.

Look, this should be easy based on what you and other Hamas supporters in this thread claim. Unless, of course, you’re just lying.

Prove to me you are right. It should be easy for you to find a similar video of Israelis desecrating the naked corpse of a young Palestinian woman while other Israeli onlookers cheer on. You keep telling me thousands of these videos exist. So produce just one of them.

+1. Are there videos of collateral damage to civilians from Israeli attacks? Sure. I'm you can point to those. But I haven't once ever seen barbarism on display from the Israelis like you've seen in the last 24 hours by the Gazans. Feel free to correct us though if there are.

+1

There are many videos of the horrific results of rocket attacks with both Israeli and Palestinian children as innocent victims.

But I’ve never seen a video of Israelis acting with the level of barbarism and monstrosity as the Palestinians in today’s videos. I’ll never get what I saw out of my head, and I wish I could.

I have been a critic of Israel in the past, but this is far beyond anything I’ve ever seen from Israel before.

+1.

So far today, more than 250 Israelis have been killed and another 1400 injured. An untold amount of people - including many women - have been kidnapped and taken hostage by Palestinians. Anyone that saw the videos today of Palestinians desecrating and abusing the naked body of a dead Israeli women will be understandably worried about the fate of those hostages. They are likely to be tortured. Palestinians displayed a venal cruelty that is not often seen in the modern era. Those images will not be forgotten.

What Palestinians did today was to effectively commit national suicide. They will never have a viable, independent country. They are terrorists. When Gaza is destroyed in the months ahead, no one will lament their fate. They chose Hamas. They chose barbarity. They chose stupidity. And they will reap what they sowed. Idiots.

I’ve watched the video a few times trying to figure out whether it was the German tourist or not. I don’t know whether it was, but it doesn’t matter. It’s a ghastly scene that constitutes both a war crime and an exhibition of the basest forms of human behavior.

All of that said, I’m going to stop you when you use it as a rallying cry for genocide.

Countless bodies - civilian and belligerent - were desecrated by our forces and those of our allies in Afghanistan and Iraq. And then some. If you haven’t heard of the Mahmudiyah Incident, have a read: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmudiyah_rape_and_killings. Even for all out war, that’s some extremely evil sht. And it was all done by a US Army soldiers.

As horrific as that incident, I think you and I are grateful that no one is calling for the indiscriminate slaughter of Americans on account of the heinous actions of five soldiers. Or for those of William Laws Calley Jr. at My Lai and so on and so on.

Thugs that celebrate killing and the desecration of bodies deserve nothing less than that, but they are not all Gazans let alone all Palestinians.

I don’t remember celebrations by Americans all over the nation re: Mahmudiya rape and killings.

Americans are not living under brutal military occupation, desperate for a win at any cost to avenge their dispossession, Israeli apartheid, and death and disfigurement of generations of youth.

Desperation is ugly. I blame the people who made all Palestinian civilians this desperate as much as I blame the madmen who carried out these attacks.

We have to internalize our role in this situation.

You are disgusting. Absolutely disgusting.

I think israeli government actions are disgusting. Absolutely disgusting.

This is a kidnapped Israeli child in Gaza being passed around for Palestinian kids to bully.

The adults responsible deserve what's coming for them.

https://t.co/poikILZ3uh

Avi Yemini

https://twitter.com/OzraeliAvi/status/1710778299264487877

And they videotaped him being sexually assaulted by teens. I thought Hamas murdered anyone suspected of having anal sex, but rape is fine?

Oh my god. I am sickened by this. The poor innocent children.

Palestinians and Russians have a lot in common.

Are you sickened by the poor innocent brown children too? Or only white children matter?

Israel’s theft of Palestinian land is exactly like Russia’s theft of Ukrainian land.

Are you asking us to support your white supremacist views of the conflict - or do the lives of brown Jews not matter to you? You are defending gang rape.

[Anonymous]

We have no leadership. Biden’s garbled message and then walking off stage like a zombi is really demoralizing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's still unclear to me why Hamas chose to do this. Israel has been out of Gaza for twenty years. By causing more than 2000 casualties in one day alone - mass murders of families and communities, raping and abducting women, kidnapping the elderly and small children - they know very well that Israel will have no choice but to respond extremely forcefully. Nearly 150,000 reservists were called up to duty today. That's nearly 300,000 soldiers total that Israel is gearing up for action. Of course Israel is going to level Gaza. Of course Israel is going to invade. And of course Israel is going to occupy all of Gaza for the next 50 years. No one in Gaza will be allowed anywhere near the border for generations.

This operation cost the people of Gaza everything. Soon, they're going to start dying. Their homes will be destroyed. Economic life in Gaza, such as it is, will come to an end. It's going to be decades of checkpoints and curfews and misery. And since everyone in the Middle East hates Palestinians - the brought Black September to Jordan, civil war to Lebanon, and supported Saddam Hussein's invasion of Kuwait - they have nowhere to go. No country is taking in the people of Gaza.

Breathtakingly stupid people.

The people of Gaza had nothing to begin with. The territory is an open air prison. The economy is non-existent and most of the population has no prospect of ever being allowed to leave. You write as if they had something to lose. They didn’t. What little hope they had was about to be sold down the river by the Saudis. Add to that what’s being going on in Jerusalem over the past few days and you have your answer. These were desperate, hopeless people.

Because their leaders stole the billions of dollars in aid. Because instead of building hospitals and infrastructure, hotels on the Mediterranean beach, they built tunnels and bought weapons. It’s so sad. The Palestinian people have been given billions in aid, and their leaders have stolen it all.