Why are OOS flagships so popular these days?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I’m one of the UVA boosters and I’m just gonna sum things up as fairly and honestly and inoffensively as I can.

UVA is a highly selective school with an excellent reputation.

Most students who get into UVA in state elect to attend. Among those who don’t, some go to top privates instead. Others go to other top publics and pay full tuition. Some go to other lower ranked OOS publics and privates because of merit aid.

Few go to lower ranked OOS publics and pay full tuition.

In state students who don’t or can’t get into UVA often have high enough stats to get into all but the very best OOS flagships. These students will often elect to attend one of them over in state options other than UVA.

But an in state student who is accepted at UVA but not accepted at a top OOS public is not likely to attend another OOS public and pay full tuition just to get out of Virginia. I’m not saying it doesn’t happen, just that it’s uncommon.

1. Where is the data supporting this?

2. This thread isn’t just about UVA.

3. Glad you acknowledge that other people have different preferences than you.

4. Many kids/parents seek out OOS colleges regardless of their ability to get accepted at any particular in-state college.

I don’t have to offer data for all of this. Much of it is intuitive. It starts with the DATA that we do know: 57 percent of offered in state applicants elect to attend. That leaves 43 percent who don’t. Where do you think they’re going? What percentage of admitted UVA kids do YOU think are going to OOS flagships outside of, say, Michigan, the UCs, UNC and Georgia Tech and paying full fare? Remember, we’re starting with a number that’s less than half, and we know that many in state kids who are admitted to UVA elect to go to private schools. When all of this is taken into account, how do YOU think the numbers look?

At least I am starting with one truly accurate and identifiable data point. You have offered none.

So you don’t have data. Just your (close-minded, rigid) opinion. Got it.

I have already posted data that demonstrates that many kids do choose schools that are more expensive and lower ranked than UVA.

Sorry you struggle with this but UVA isn’t a good fit for many kids. Regardless of the price tag and ranking.

Any kid who wants to go to school OOS for a starter.

Did you ever even give your kids the option?

Man you are truly incapable of engaging in serious discussion. Your data is no more complete than the data I have given no matter how many times you say it is. You’re exhausting.

Just answer me this: did any of your kids turn down a UVA offer for an OOS flagship paying full tuition? It’s a very straightforward question.

How would this anecdote help your argument? DP

Does this help?

According to college factual, of the combined total of nearly 20,000 new students entering indiana University and Ohio State combined, only 39 at IU and only 56 at OSU are even FROM Virginia. That’s less than 1/2 of one percent. Neither school includes VA among its top 10 OOS feeders.

Even if all 95 of them turned down UVA, which we all know didn’t happen, that’s a very, very small fraction of the 2600+ number of VA students who didn’t.

This is what I mean when I said you need to take the Parchmont percentage with a huge grain of salt. Very few actual students are turning down UVA for non-top tier OOS flashships.

How do we know this?

We don’t. But as I said even if it were true these are very small numbers . . .

But cmon, we know they didn’t all get into UVA.

How about data from more than two institutions?

+1

I wouldn’t go as far as calling it “data” but certainly PP has cherry picked “data” in the past.

We’ve long ago drifted into the realm of the absurd. I’m not going to research every OOS flagship for you. You can do that just as easily yourself and prove me wrong if you want.

The University of Alabama enrolled a little over 200 Virginians last year. That’s the real outlier. But as others have noted, UA is throwing money to attract OOS students, which are now nearly 70 percent of its undergrad population. Even here, though, there are as many from PA, NY and NJ than VA even though VA is closer geographically.

And, again, we know that Alabama is spending lots of money to get these students. That’s not what we’re talking about. We are talking about Virginia residents electing to pay full freight to attend non-top-tie 00S flagships.

You all have computers too. Prove me wrong.

And stop being so damned jealous lol

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So the qualifier now is “full freight”. Ok.

I’ve already shared data comparing many different schools. I’m on my third drink now. If you have data to support your claim, go nuts. We aren’t doing the work for you.

+1 the "data" must not exist

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So the qualifier now is “full freight”. Ok.

I’ve already shared data comparing many different schools. I’m on my third drink now. If you have data to support your claim, go nuts. We aren’t doing the work for you.

It’s always been full freight. Always. Go back and look at my posts. I’ve made that clear every single time.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:So the qualifier now is “full freight”. Ok.

I’ve already shared data comparing many different schools. I’m on my third drink now. If you have data to support your claim, go nuts. We aren’t doing the work for you.

+1 the "data" must not exist

Yup. PP is full of opinions, short on data.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:UVA is a bastion of southern pride and it isn't a good fit for everyone.

Easy there, Grand Wizard. Sounds like you're thinking of Ole Miss or Virginia Tech instead.

Honestly I went to UVA and think of it fondly but I understand that characterization.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:In state = 13th Grade

+1

-1
That's what parents/kids say when they don't get in. It's a face-saving technique that's entirely transparent.

So now we all agree that kids may want to go to college out of state for reasons that aren’t just “didn’t get into DMV state schools”. Great.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:to the main question - simply because UVA, VT , WM cant cant all the qualified students and people here have the $$$ to go to OOS schools.

Many students that "just miss" getting into UVA, VT, WM are offered excellent scholarships at other states' flagships-to the point where it's the same or an even lower price.
My kid is a good student but I don't think he has a chance at UVA or VT (engineering.) But with the automatic merit scholarship at Alabama, he'll only be paying about $2k/semester-far cheaper than what he'd have to pay at UVA or VT even if he could get in.

Yea, exactly. I said this earlier in fact but I’m a so-called UVA poster so I was dismissed out of hand.

The joke used to be that JMU stood for Just Missed UVA. That’s not true of JMU or any other school in VA outside of W&M and maybe VT. The gap has widened. So you have very good students from VA that can’t / don’t get into those schools but have very good stats and are getting merit offers from OOS flagships. They end up paying less to leave the state and going to better (or at least better known) OOS schools.

So the choice is made for them given UVA’s admission standards, but it’s not a bad choice to have made.

I am smiling as I write this because I have “Morning Joe“ on the TV in the background and they’re talking about how unfair the process is for rich kids to get into best schools. The reporter just said “schools like the Ivy League and elite publics like Virginia and Michigan.” In that order lol. No mention of any of the other out-of-state flagships being discussed in this thread lol.

Re: the bolded, that silly "joke" isn't true for VT, mainly because students often choose VT over UVA to begin with. I know that's hard for you to admit, but it's ok. The rest of us know it to be true.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:to the main question - simply because UVA, VT , WM cant cant all the qualified students and people here have the $$$ to go to OOS schools.

Many students that "just miss" getting into UVA, VT, WM are offered excellent scholarships at other states' flagships-to the point where it's the same or an even lower price.
My kid is a good student but I don't think he has a chance at UVA or VT (engineering.) But with the automatic merit scholarship at Alabama, he'll only be paying about $2k/semester-far cheaper than what he'd have to pay at UVA or VT even if he could get in.

Yea, exactly. I said this earlier in fact but I’m a so-called UVA poster so I was dismissed out of hand.

The joke used to be that JMU stood for Just Missed UVA. That’s not true of JMU or any other school in VA outside of W&M and maybe VT. The gap has widened. So you have very good students from VA that can’t / don’t get into those schools but have very good stats and are getting merit offers from OOS flagships. They end up paying less to leave the state and going to better (or at least better known) OOS schools.

So the choice is made for them given UVA’s admission standards, but it’s not a bad choice to have made.

I am smiling as I write this because I have “Morning Joe“ on the TV in the background and they’re talking about how unfair the process is for rich kids to get into best schools. The reporter just said “schools like the Ivy League and elite publics like Virginia and Michigan.” In that order lol. No mention of any of the other out-of-state flagships being discussed in this thread lol.

The reporter would sound like an idiot if they listed a half dozen flagships. But you're totally right- there are a lot of flagships that slot in between UVA/W&M/VT engineering and JMU. The same holds for schools between UMD and UMDBC. My kid may prefer UVA or UMD to Clemson or Colorado, but they may also prefer Clemson or Colorado to CNU or Frostburg State

Lol yea about the reporter but still funny that UVA was the first school off his lips. Folks on this thread would’ve been sooo annoyed lol

DP. Do you have any idea how tiresome you UVA boosters are? And you wonder why people can't stand you...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:to the main question - simply because UVA, VT , WM cant cant all the qualified students and people here have the $$$ to go to OOS schools.

Many students that "just miss" getting into UVA, VT, WM are offered excellent scholarships at other states' flagships-to the point where it's the same or an even lower price.
My kid is a good student but I don't think he has a chance at UVA or VT (engineering.) But with the automatic merit scholarship at Alabama, he'll only be paying about $2k/semester-far cheaper than what he'd have to pay at UVA or VT even if he could get in.

Yea, exactly. I said this earlier in fact but I’m a so-called UVA poster so I was dismissed out of hand.

The joke used to be that JMU stood for Just Missed UVA. That’s not true of JMU or any other school in VA outside of W&M and maybe VT. The gap has widened. So you have very good students from VA that can’t / don’t get into those schools but have very good stats and are getting merit offers from OOS flagships. They end up paying less to leave the state and going to better (or at least better known) OOS schools.

So the choice is made for them given UVA’s admission standards, but it’s not a bad choice to have made.

I am smiling as I write this because I have “Morning Joe“ on the TV in the background and they’re talking about how unfair the process is for rich kids to get into best schools. The reporter just said “schools like the Ivy League and elite publics like Virginia and Michigan.” In that order lol. No mention of any of the other out-of-state flagships being discussed in this thread lol.

Re: the bolded, that silly "joke" isn't true for VT, mainly because students often choose VT over UVA to begin with. I know that's hard for you to admit, but it's ok. The rest of us know it to be true.

According to parchment 24 percent of students admitted to both UVA and Tech chose Tech. I guess that’s “often.”

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I know this is a thread about UVA at this point but we are in MD and my kid doesn’t want to go to UMD. Is not interested in STEM. Doesn’t like that it’s 20 minutes from home, would prefer a college town, and would prefer more school spirit.

UVA booster here. I get that. Not only is UMD not in the same league as UVA reputation wise, it’s so close that it has a metro stop. That doesn’t work for a lot of kids. Makes total sense.

Just as UVA doesn't work for a lot of kids who live in Charlottesville and the surrounding area. They don't want to go to as school near them, either. Makes total sense.
DP

[Anonymous]

UVA boosters lack the self awareness that a good education would have provided.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:College students care much less about museums and culture than parents. Students choose OOS flagships bc they want a big school, big sports experience. These schools are mostly in cities where the university is the center of the city.

It’s not for everybody, but many students like the traditional college experience.

+100

Absolutely agree. They want the big school, big sports experience - it's not because the towns of the OOS flagships are so great in comparison to their home cities.

I don’t think the towns even necessarily need to be “better”. Just being somewhere different is fun.

er.. different is not always fun.

You’ll never know if you don’t try.

Sure, and they may hate it.

I have lived in different cities and state across the country. My spouse even moved to a different continent. Different is not always better. But, sure, I can understand wanting to try it.

The PP stated " Just being somewhere different is fun."

My point is that just because it's different, doesn't make it more "fun" or better.

+1
Different can be better. It can also be much, much worse. My daughter just spent two years in CA for grad school and was so desperate to come home. She stuck it out but said it was awful. Not every place is "better."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:UVA is a bastion of southern pride and it isn't a good fit for everyone.

Easy there, Grand Wizard. Sounds like you're thinking of Ole Miss or Virginia Tech instead.

Easy there, yourself. I know nothing about Ole Miss, but you are grossly mischaracterizing Virginia Tech (and probably Ole Miss too). Take a seat.
DP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:to the main question - simply because UVA, VT , WM cant cant all the qualified students and people here have the $$$ to go to OOS schools.

Many students that "just miss" getting into UVA, VT, WM are offered excellent scholarships at other states' flagships-to the point where it's the same or an even lower price.
My kid is a good student but I don't think he has a chance at UVA or VT (engineering.) But with the automatic merit scholarship at Alabama, he'll only be paying about $2k/semester-far cheaper than what he'd have to pay at UVA or VT even if he could get in.

Yea, exactly. I said this earlier in fact but I’m a so-called UVA poster so I was dismissed out of hand.

The joke used to be that JMU stood for Just Missed UVA. That’s not true of JMU or any other school in VA outside of W&M and maybe VT. The gap has widened. So you have very good students from VA that can’t / don’t get into those schools but have very good stats and are getting merit offers from OOS flagships. They end up paying less to leave the state and going to better (or at least better known) OOS schools.

So the choice is made for them given UVA’s admission standards, but it’s not a bad choice to have made.

I am smiling as I write this because I have “Morning Joe“ on the TV in the background and they’re talking about how unfair the process is for rich kids to get into best schools. The reporter just said “schools like the Ivy League and elite publics like Virginia and Michigan.” In that order lol. No mention of any of the other out-of-state flagships being discussed in this thread lol.

Re: the bolded, that silly "joke" isn't true for VT, mainly because students often choose VT over UVA to begin with. I know that's hard for you to admit, but it's ok. The rest of us know it to be true.

According to parchment 24 percent of students admitted to both UVA and Tech chose Tech. I guess that’s “often.”

According to parchment, if the choice is UVA vs Michigan, 57% choose Michigan. 54% choose UCLA. 60% choose Berkeley. 69% choose USC. Looks like UVA isn't the top choice for many, many people.
DP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:College students care much less about museums and culture than parents. Students choose OOS flagships bc they want a big school, big sports experience. These schools are mostly in cities where the university is the center of the city.

It’s not for everybody, but many students like the traditional college experience.

+100

Absolutely agree. They want the big school, big sports experience - it's not because the towns of the OOS flagships are so great in comparison to their home cities.

I don’t think the towns even necessarily need to be “better”. Just being somewhere different is fun.

er.. different is not always fun.

You’ll never know if you don’t try.

Sure, and they may hate it.

I have lived in different cities and state across the country. My spouse even moved to a different continent. Different is not always better. But, sure, I can understand wanting to try it.

The PP stated " Just being somewhere different is fun."

My point is that just because it's different, doesn't make it more "fun" or better.

+1
Different can be better. It can also be much, much worse. My daughter just spent two years in CA for grad school and was so desperate to come home. She stuck it out but said it was awful. Not every place is "better."

Where in CA?