Is W&M a prestigious college?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, it's not. Perhaps within the state of VA.

I'd define "prestigious" as a school that has for a long time viewed as elite not just by the wealthy/well-educated, but also by the vast swathes of the population.

Outside of Harvard, Yale, MIT, Stanford, Princeton, I don't think any top privates even would be considered prestigious nationally. Doesn't mean that they aren't prestigious regionally.

The median person in this country has never heard of MIT or Princeton. They have heard of Ohio State and Alabama.

Who's talking about "heard of"? Where in the post does it say "heard of"?

It quite explicitly states that the vast swathes o the population views the school as elite. "Heard of" is not the same thing as "elite". No one views University of Alabama or Ohio State as elite, other than in football.

Anonymous wrote:
Exactly. "Prestigious" doesn't mean "good football team".

Again, who is talking about football teams? We are talking about elite academically, not good football teams.

Every Joe in Boston thinks that Hahvahd kids are wicked smaht. Every Joe has heard of the Ivies, even if they don't know some of the smaller schools in it.

The post does not reference football teams in any way.

"I'd define "prestigious" as a school that has for a long time viewed as elite not just by the wealthy/well-educated, but also by the vast swathes of the population."


I hate to break it to you, but the vast swathes of the population don't define "prestigious" the same way you do.

[Anonymous]

No, not at all. Just a really good state school.

[Anonymous]

"I said oh no, William and Mary won't do..."

[Anonymous]

I think it’s prestigious, not the most in Virginia but 2nd or 3rd in the state for sure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It sounds so immature when school boosters respond to "hurt feelings" but saying that the poster's loved one must not have gotten in.

Grow up and argue based on substance people.

+1

It's a fine school. It's not the greatest. It's going downhill rapidly. And yes, before the crazy W&M boosters show up, I'm an alum.

I doubt that.

Same here.

I knew you guys would show up! I hope W&M is at least paying you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It sounds so immature when school boosters respond to "hurt feelings" but saying that the poster's loved one must not have gotten in.

Grow up and argue based on substance people.

+1

It's a fine school. It's not the greatest. It's going downhill rapidly. And yes, before the crazy W&M boosters show up, I'm an alum.

Why do you think that it’s going downhill rapidly?

The school is stretched very thin financially, to start. Instead of spending it on things that matter, like teaching (professors are notoriously underpaid and a lot of very talented young professors are forced to leave as a result), the school dumps money into silly things that show no tangible benefit, like the St. Andrews program. There was also the issue of cutting the track teams for men and women, among other high-performing sports teams, recently and alumni fought like hell to bring them back (thankfully, it worked). On-campus recruiting is very weak, especially when compared to UVA on the business side; you're not getting the same caliber of companies showing up to get W&M students, and if they do come, they're recruiting for the JV team (e.g., Accenture and Deloitte federal show up, not the commercial counterparts). One of my children started at W&M and transferred out. They were initially excited about going to their parents' college, but compared to the experience of their siblings at other schools, they didn't think they were getting the full experience and were even getting "ripped off" when it came to campus events and speakers, course selection/variety, and other things.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s difficult to argue that the school that educated Thomas Jefferson and Jen Psaki doesn’t have some solid claim to prestige.

If you knew Jen Psaki in college, you'd know how hilarious that sounds.

Even if you know her beyond college, it's still true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, it's not. Perhaps within the state of VA.

I'd define "prestigious" as a school that has for a long time viewed as elite not just by the wealthy/well-educated, but also by the vast swathes of the population.

Outside of Harvard, Yale, MIT, Stanford, Princeton, I don't think any top privates even would be considered prestigious nationally. Doesn't mean that they aren't prestigious regionally.

The median person in this country has never heard of MIT or Princeton. They have heard of Ohio State and Alabama.

Who's talking about "heard of"? Where in the post does it say "heard of"?

It quite explicitly states that the vast swathes o the population views the school as elite. "Heard of" is not the same thing as "elite". No one views University of Alabama or Ohio State as elite, other than in football.

Anonymous wrote:
Exactly. "Prestigious" doesn't mean "good football team".

Again, who is talking about football teams? We are talking about elite academically, not good football teams.

Every Joe in Boston thinks that Hahvahd kids are wicked smaht. Every Joe has heard of the Ivies, even if they don't know some of the smaller schools in it.

The post does not reference football teams in any way.

"I'd define "prestigious" as a school that has for a long time viewed as elite not just by the wealthy/well-educated, but also by the vast swathes of the population."


I hate to break it to you, but the vast swathes of the population don't define "prestigious" the same way you do.

Read the post again. Then double-back and read it again.

It states a prestigious school is viewed as elite by vast swathes of the population. Viewed as elite, not viewed as prestigious, which would be circular definition to define prestigious by using the term prestigious.

Vast swathes of the population do know what elite means. They hear about it in the news every time a presidential candidate runs for office, how that candidate attended Harvard, Yale or some other Ivy League school. They hear about it during Supreme Court nominations about how the judge attended, again, Yale, Harvard, etc. law school. They hear about it when some wealthy tech CEO dropped out of Stanford or Harvard to start their own tech company. Or even when Trump brags about himself having "good genes" because his uncle was a professor at MIT.

An elite school literally means the school has been attended by the American elite - in political elites, industrial elites, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, it's not. Perhaps within the state of VA.

I'd define "prestigious" as a school that has for a long time viewed as elite not just by the wealthy/well-educated, but also by the vast swathes of the population.

Outside of Harvard, Yale, MIT, Stanford, Princeton, I don't think any top privates even would be considered prestigious nationally. Doesn't mean that they aren't prestigious regionally.

The median person in this country has never heard of MIT or Princeton. They have heard of Ohio State and Alabama.

Who's talking about "heard of"? Where in the post does it say "heard of"?

It quite explicitly states that the vast swathes o the population views the school as elite. "Heard of" is not the same thing as "elite". No one views University of Alabama or Ohio State as elite, other than in football.

Anonymous wrote:
Exactly. "Prestigious" doesn't mean "good football team".

Again, who is talking about football teams? We are talking about elite academically, not good football teams.

Every Joe in Boston thinks that Hahvahd kids are wicked smaht. Every Joe has heard of the Ivies, even if they don't know some of the smaller schools in it.

The post does not reference football teams in any way.

"I'd define "prestigious" as a school that has for a long time viewed as elite not just by the wealthy/well-educated, but also by the vast swathes of the population."


I hate to break it to you, but the vast swathes of the population don't define "prestigious" the same way you do.

Read the post again. Then double-back and read it again.

It states a prestigious school is viewed as elite by vast swathes of the population. Viewed as elite, not viewed as prestigious, which would be circular definition to define prestigious by using the term prestigious.

Vast swathes of the population do know what elite means. They hear about it in the news every time a presidential candidate runs for office, how that candidate attended Harvard, Yale or some other Ivy League school. They hear about it during Supreme Court nominations about how the judge attended, again, Yale, Harvard, etc. law school. They hear about it when some wealthy tech CEO dropped out of Stanford or Harvard to start their own tech company. Or even when Trump brags about himself having "good genes" because his uncle was a professor at MIT.

An elite school literally means the school has been attended by the American elite - in political elites, industrial elites, etc.

Honestly, nothing you have written is worth reading more than once.
How can a school be viewed as anything by "vast swathes" of the population when most people have never heard of it? Most people don't care about college at all outside of sports. I say this becuase your argument is inconsistent. If somebody says that a school like Williams is prestigious, you say that it isn't because it only has name regognition by the eduicated elite, and not by your "vast swathes" (of whom I don't think you actually know very many). If they point out the types of schools that the majority of people have heard of (and are impressed by-- yes, the people walking around Monroeville know and are impressed when Larla goes to Alabama. Most peple don't go to 4 year colleges and certainly not to state flagships.)- then you say, no those aren't viewed highly enough by the people you imagine. Basically I think you live in a bubble and want to delude yourself that other people care about certian schools, but only those schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, it's not. Perhaps within the state of VA.

I'd define "prestigious" as a school that has for a long time viewed as elite not just by the wealthy/well-educated, but also by the vast swathes of the population.

Outside of Harvard, Yale, MIT, Stanford, Princeton, I don't think any top privates even would be considered prestigious nationally. Doesn't mean that they aren't prestigious regionally.

What you think and reality, are two different things here. There are a lot of "national" schools, particularly private ones. William and Mary isn't one of them, being public and somewhat more regional. But if you don't think Columbia, Penn, Northwestern, Hopkins and so on, aren't "national" schools, I don't know what to tell you.

I agree with Columbia and Penn (Wharton), and perhaps even Dartmouth and Brown solely based on their association with the Ivies.

I don't agree with Northwestern. Most people will have never heard of the school, and those that have would simply think its a very good private school. Certainly its prestigious in the Midwest, but that means it's prestigious regionally. People in the Mid-Atlantic, West and South generally do not care about Northwestern.

Hopkins seems prestigious because this is a DC Metro forum, and yes it is perhaps prestigious regionally (even that I question, again most people do not care for Hopkins undergrad). Beyond its top medical school which is prestigious internationally, I would not say that the rest of the school is prestigious nationally.

Except for the entire Engineering school, IR which is the second most popular, renowned Writing Seminars, English and History.

But I agree- Bio, Biophysics and Chemistry aren't in the top 5.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, it's not. Perhaps within the state of VA.

I'd define "prestigious" as a school that has for a long time viewed as elite not just by the wealthy/well-educated, but also by the vast swathes of the population.

Outside of Harvard, Yale, MIT, Stanford, Princeton, I don't think any top privates even would be considered prestigious nationally. Doesn't mean that they aren't prestigious regionally.

What you think and reality, are two different things here. There are a lot of "national" schools, particularly private ones. William and Mary isn't one of them, being public and somewhat more regional. But if you don't think Columbia, Penn, Northwestern, Hopkins and so on, aren't "national" schools, I don't know what to tell you.

I agree with Columbia and Penn (Wharton), and perhaps even Dartmouth and Brown solely based on their association with the Ivies.

I don't agree with Northwestern. Most people will have never heard of the school, and those that have would simply think its a very good private school. Certainly its prestigious in the Midwest, but that means it's prestigious regionally. People in the Mid-Atlantic, West and South generally do not care about Northwestern.

Hopkins seems prestigious because this is a DC Metro forum, and yes it is perhaps prestigious regionally (even that I question, again most people do not care for Hopkins undergrad). Beyond its top medical school which is prestigious internationally, I would not say that the rest of the school is prestigious nationally.

Are you really trying to argue Northwestern and Hopkins aren't national schools? This is a piss poor take. I'm from Colorado and NU and JHU are both seen as prestigious schools. Even here in NOVA, they are respected names.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, it's not. Perhaps within the state of VA.

I'd define "prestigious" as a school that has for a long time viewed as elite not just by the wealthy/well-educated, but also by the vast swathes of the population.

Outside of Harvard, Yale, MIT, Stanford, Princeton, I don't think any top privates even would be considered prestigious nationally. Doesn't mean that they aren't prestigious regionally.

What you think and reality, are two different things here. There are a lot of "national" schools, particularly private ones. William and Mary isn't one of them, being public and somewhat more regional. But if you don't think Columbia, Penn, Northwestern, Hopkins and so on, aren't "national" schools, I don't know what to tell you.

I agree with Columbia and Penn (Wharton), and perhaps even Dartmouth and Brown solely based on their association with the Ivies.

I don't agree with Northwestern. Most people will have never heard of the school, and those that have would simply think its a very good private school. Certainly its prestigious in the Midwest, but that means it's prestigious regionally. People in the Mid-Atlantic, West and South generally do not care about Northwestern.

Hopkins seems prestigious because this is a DC Metro forum, and yes it is perhaps prestigious regionally (even that I question, again most people do not care for Hopkins undergrad). Beyond its top medical school which is prestigious internationally, I would not say that the rest of the school is prestigious nationally.

Are you really trying to argue Northwestern and Hopkins aren't national schools? This is a piss poor take. I'm from Colorado and NU and JHU are both seen as prestigious schools. Even here in NOVA, they are respected names.

+1, I am in Florida and Northwestern is a coveted name down here. Johns Hopkins is also renowned for its medical school although I suspect many people would think it's a hospital first.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It sounds so immature when school boosters respond to "hurt feelings" but saying that the poster's loved one must not have gotten in.

Grow up and argue based on substance people.

+1

It's a fine school. It's not the greatest. It's going downhill rapidly. And yes, before the crazy W&M boosters show up, I'm an alum.

Why do you think that it’s going downhill rapidly?

The school is stretched very thin financially, to start. Instead of spending it on things that matter, like teaching (professors are notoriously underpaid and a lot of very talented young professors are forced to leave as a result), the school dumps money into silly things that show no tangible benefit, like the St. Andrews program. There was also the issue of cutting the track teams for men and women, among other high-performing sports teams, recently and alumni fought like hell to bring them back (thankfully, it worked). On-campus recruiting is very weak, especially when compared to UVA on the business side; you're not getting the same caliber of companies showing up to get W&M students, and if they do come, they're recruiting for the JV team (e.g., Accenture and Deloitte federal show up, not the commercial counterparts). One of my children started at W&M and transferred out. They were initially excited about going to their parents' college, but compared to the experience of their siblings at other schools, they didn't think they were getting the full experience and were even getting "ripped off" when it came to campus events and speakers, course selection/variety, and other things.

Where did your other kids go that was a better experience?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It sounds so immature when school boosters respond to "hurt feelings" but saying that the poster's loved one must not have gotten in.

Grow up and argue based on substance people.

+1

It's a fine school. It's not the greatest. It's going downhill rapidly. And yes, before the crazy W&M boosters show up, I'm an alum.

Why do you think that it’s going downhill rapidly?

The school is stretched very thin financially, to start. Instead of spending it on things that matter, like teaching (professors are notoriously underpaid and a lot of very talented young professors are forced to leave as a result), the school dumps money into silly things that show no tangible benefit, like the St. Andrews program. There was also the issue of cutting the track teams for men and women, among other high-performing sports teams, recently and alumni fought like hell to bring them back (thankfully, it worked). On-campus recruiting is very weak, especially when compared to UVA on the business side; you're not getting the same caliber of companies showing up to get W&M students, and if they do come, they're recruiting for the JV team (e.g., Accenture and Deloitte federal show up, not the commercial counterparts). One of my children started at W&M and transferred out. They were initially excited about going to their parents' college, but compared to the experience of their siblings at other schools, they didn't think they were getting the full experience and were even getting "ripped off" when it came to campus events and speakers, course selection/variety, and other things.

William and Mary is #4 among all National Universities in USNWR in undergraduate teaching. If you look at Niche Ratings of what students say about professors, (Are they interesting, passionate, care about students, accessible, easy to understand?), William and Mary professors are rated higher than all of the more selective public universities I see (Berkeley, UCLA, Michigan, UVA, Georgia Tech, UNC, Florida, Texas, etc.) in every single category. It seems to me William and Mary probably focuses more on teaching than many other schools.

You say recruiting is very weak, but Princeton Review has William and Mary at #1 for internships among public schools and #14 for best career services. If you look at the first destinations reports for Virginia colleges, William and Mary is among the best in percentage of students still looking for employment 6 months after graduation. The only website I know that tracks undergraduate business school salaries and bonuses, Poets&Quants, has William and Mary at #4 among public schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It sounds so immature when school boosters respond to "hurt feelings" but saying that the poster's loved one must not have gotten in.

Grow up and argue based on substance people.

+1

It's a fine school. It's not the greatest. It's going downhill rapidly. And yes, before the crazy W&M boosters show up, I'm an alum.

Why do you think that it’s going downhill rapidly?

The school is stretched very thin financially, to start. Instead of spending it on things that matter, like teaching (professors are notoriously underpaid and a lot of very talented young professors are forced to leave as a result), the school dumps money into silly things that show no tangible benefit, like the St. Andrews program. There was also the issue of cutting the track teams for men and women, among other high-performing sports teams, recently and alumni fought like hell to bring them back (thankfully, it worked). On-campus recruiting is very weak, especially when compared to UVA on the business side; you're not getting the same caliber of companies showing up to get W&M students, and if they do come, they're recruiting for the JV team (e.g., Accenture and Deloitte federal show up, not the commercial counterparts). One of my children started at W&M and transferred out. They were initially excited about going to their parents' college, but compared to the experience of their siblings at other schools, they didn't think they were getting the full experience and were even getting "ripped off" when it came to campus events and speakers, course selection/variety, and other things.

William and Mary is #4 among all National Universities in USNWR in undergraduate teaching. If you look at Niche Ratings of what students say about professors, (Are they interesting, passionate, care about students, accessible, easy to understand?), William and Mary professors are rated higher than all of the more selective public universities I see (Berkeley, UCLA, Michigan, UVA, Georgia Tech, UNC, Florida, Texas, etc.) in every single category. It seems to me William and Mary probably focuses more on teaching than many other schools.

You say recruiting is very weak, but Princeton Review has William and Mary at #1 for internships among public schools and #14 for best career services. If you look at the first destinations reports for Virginia colleges, William and Mary is among the best in percentage of students still looking for employment 6 months after graduation. The only website I know that tracks undergraduate business school salaries and bonuses, Poets&Quants, has William and Mary at #4 among public schools.

DP, not denying that W&M probably has great teaching, but prestige is not necessarily correlated to excellent teaching. Harvard is pretty notorious for having a subpar undergrad/teaching experience, and there are certain community colleges out there that have truly phenomenal teachers.