Lord and Taylor space in Friendship Heights

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everything in that area dies.

Yep, they tried to revitalized that area with the high end shops but man, what a dud that was. FH is where retail goes to die for some reason.

It was the wrong kind of high end: way too flashy. The older department stores, Brooks Brothers, Tiffany’s and Saks Jandal all did quite well there. Post-Covid though, could be a serious hit.

Brooks Brothers and Saks Jandel are gone. Even Brooks Brothers couldn't survive there, in a place filled with Brooks Brothers shoppers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everything in that area dies.

Yep, they tried to revitalized that area with the high end shops but man, what a dud that was. FH is where retail goes to die for some reason.

It was the wrong kind of high end: way too flashy. The older department stores, Brooks Brothers, Tiffany’s and Saks Jandal all did quite well there. Post-Covid though, could be a serious hit.

FH was not good for retail because the area was poorly planned. You have a mall like Mazza that has a Neiman Marcus right next to a McDonald's and TJ Maxx that features a decrepit garage, for example. Moreover, what's the purpose of sticking all these department stores across major roads and sticking Saks so far from Neiman Marcus? The area doesn't have a consistent character and these department stores are across busy streets and far enough apart to not entice people to walk around the neighborhood.

These high-end department stores would get more business if they were in a place like the White Flint Mall site, especially if it was paired with high-end boutiques and restaurants in an open air Pike and Rose concept, with luxury apartments, condos and hotels thrown in, not to mention a much nicer garage. It would entice people to spend hours there and the residences would create a built-in client base as well.

If you had all of the property of Mazza and these department stores in a developers hands, and threw in the Geico headquarters as well, you could have a really nice development. And you wouldn't need tax incentives to do so. Developers are probably chomping at the bit to put $2-$3 million townhomes in the area and high rise condos at the Saks location since it doesn't have to deal with the height restrictions like in DC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everything in that area dies.

Yep, they tried to revitalized that area with the high end shops but man, what a dud that was. FH is where retail goes to die for some reason.

It was the wrong kind of high end: way too flashy. The older department stores, Brooks Brothers, Tiffany’s and Saks Jandal all did quite well there. Post-Covid though, could be a serious hit.

Brooks Brothers and Saks Jandel are gone. Even Brooks Brothers couldn't survive there, in a place filled with Brooks Brothers shoppers.

Brooks Brothers closed at 6pm for some reason and that area is horribly planned. Bethesda Row has no problem attracting high end retailers and restaurants because it is much more walkable and has a more cohesive feel. Creating a walkable, cohesive environment matters and all of these retailers closing in Friendship Heights offers a new opportunity to start fresh.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone remember when the CC Clyde’s center had Walpole linens, Quatermaine’s coffee, and the Georgetown University Shop?

Yes! And I loved the Laura Ashely in Mazza. I worked at Woodies and Herman's when I was in high school/college (post Mazza but pre-Chevy Chase Pavilion). The area was actually more lively then than in recent years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Plow those unremarkable buildings to rubble and build a mixed use development like other "hot" areas. All the latest chains favored by the Yuppies (yes, I said it) and small condos with balconies and granite counters. Someone will certainly flash a lot of money at Geico since they are sitting on ACRES of undeveloped land. The metro, Wisconsin Avenue and Western Avenue aren't going anywhere. Many steak dinners will be enjoyed by the successful developers.

I'll spit out my liberal oat bran if my Montgomery County government feels the need to line rich peoples' pockets by giving money or tax breaks to the developers. If the county goes further and takes one square foot of land off the tax rolls for a skating rink or church I will throw my oat bran at the radio on my kitchen counter.

Developers wouldn't need any incentives to develop that Saks location, which is in one of the most prestigious neighborhoods in the region.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everything in that area dies.

Yep, they tried to revitalized that area with the high end shops but man, what a dud that was. FH is where retail goes to die for some reason.

It was the wrong kind of high end: way too flashy. The older department stores, Brooks Brothers, Tiffany’s and Saks Jandal all did quite well there. Post-Covid though, could be a serious hit.

FH was not good for retail because the area was poorly planned. You have a mall like Mazza that has a Neiman Marcus right next to a McDonald's and TJ Maxx that features a decrepit garage, for example. Moreover, what's the purpose of sticking all these department stores across major roads and sticking Saks so far from Neiman Marcus? The area doesn't have a consistent character and these department stores are across busy streets and far enough apart to not entice people to walk around the neighborhood.

These high-end department stores would get more business if they were in a place like the White Flint Mall site, especially if it was paired with high-end boutiques and restaurants in an open air Pike and Rose concept, with luxury apartments, condos and hotels thrown in, not to mention a much nicer garage. It would entice people to spend hours there and the residences would create a built-in client base as well.

If you had all of the property of Mazza and these department stores in a developers hands, and threw in the Geico headquarters as well, you could have a really nice development. And you wouldn't need tax incentives to do so. Developers are probably chomping at the bit to put $2-$3 million townhomes in the area and high rise condos at the Saks location since it doesn't have to deal with the height restrictions like in DC.

That's Tyson's Galleria (but not the open air part). Pike and Rose is a nice concept but the stores are kind of underwhelming.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone remember when the CC Clyde’s center had Walpole linens, Quatermaine’s coffee, and the Georgetown University Shop?

Yes! And I loved the Laura Ashely in Mazza. I worked at Woodies and Herman's when I was in high school/college (post Mazza but pre-Chevy Chase Pavilion). The area was actually more lively then than in recent years.

Still have my many Laura Ashley home decor and a Pierre Deux bag too!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everything in that area dies.

Yep, they tried to revitalized that area with the high end shops but man, what a dud that was. FH is where retail goes to die for some reason.

It was the wrong kind of high end: way too flashy. The older department stores, Brooks Brothers, Tiffany’s and Saks Jandal all did quite well there. Post-Covid though, could be a serious hit.

FH was not good for retail because the area was poorly planned. You have a mall like Mazza that has a Neiman Marcus right next to a McDonald's and TJ Maxx that features a decrepit garage, for example. Moreover, what's the purpose of sticking all these department stores across major roads and sticking Saks so far from Neiman Marcus? The area doesn't have a consistent character and these department stores are across busy streets and far enough apart to not entice people to walk around the neighborhood.

These high-end department stores would get more business if they were in a place like the White Flint Mall site, especially if it was paired with high-end boutiques and restaurants in an open air Pike and Rose concept, with luxury apartments, condos and hotels thrown in, not to mention a much nicer garage. It would entice people to spend hours there and the residences would create a built-in client base as well.

If you had all of the property of Mazza and these department stores in a developers hands, and threw in the Geico headquarters as well, you could have a really nice development. And you wouldn't need tax incentives to do so. Developers are probably chomping at the bit to put $2-$3 million townhomes in the area and high rise condos at the Saks location since it doesn't have to deal with the height restrictions like in DC.

That's Tyson's Galleria (but not the open air part). Pike and Rose is a nice concept but the stores are kind of underwhelming.

Enclosed malls are a dying breed. Places like Pike and Rose and the Mosaic District are the future. There's no reason you can't create a high end version of Pike and Rose with three department stores anchoring the property (Saks, Bloomingdales, Neiman Marcus) like they used Target to anchor the Mosaic District.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yep. I miss Woodies and Garfinkels, still. And I, too, have fond memories of the tea room at Lord and Taylor and shopping there for special dresses with my Mom.

So: Please, please support the Friendship Heights Saks. That’s one of the few remaining great shopping experiences from my childhood that’s still around.

I haven’t heard anything yet about plans for either of those spaces.

Yes! Please continue to support the Saks there.

(But good riddance to the Mazza parking garage, site of my first fender bender — God that was a terrible garage in a city of terrible garages.)

Ha- I just had a major flashback as that was the site of my first fender bender as well (well, if "hitting a pole" can be called a fender-bender) over 20 years ago

We probably need a support group.

+1. And thank you for stating this as I have thought it was me. A few years ago, depth perception changes during my last pregnancy had me in an Austin Powers moment, inching repeatedly back and forward, trapped between a column and the wall in a crevice into which I never should have driven. I thought I was following the arrows! Then of course I tried to back out and suddenly there was a tonne of traffic. I was this close to giving my keys (and van full of kids) to the next person who came along honking- to drive me out of that mess!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What they should do: Build city-subsidized 3BR apartments for low-income housing on the site, with retail and restaurants on the first floor.

What they will do: Literally anything else.

Hard pass on the first idea. Thanks, but no thanks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Plow those unremarkable buildings to rubble and build a mixed use development like other "hot" areas. All the latest chains favored by the Yuppies (yes, I said it) and small condos with balconies and granite counters. Someone will certainly flash a lot of money at Geico since they are sitting on ACRES of undeveloped land. The metro, Wisconsin Avenue and Western Avenue aren't going anywhere. Many steak dinners will be enjoyed by the successful developers.

I'll spit out my liberal oat bran if my Montgomery County government feels the need to line rich peoples' pockets by giving money or tax breaks to the developers. If the county goes further and takes one square foot of land off the tax rolls for a skating rink or church I will throw my oat bran at the radio on my kitchen counter.

Developers wouldn't need any incentives to develop that Saks location, which is in one of the most prestigious neighborhoods in the region.

And that's exactly why they will do it! Politicians fall over themselves to give away public money to gain favor with the wealthy. I don't know if it's because they like the steak dinners or the inside access to suspiciously lucrative investments. Let's just call it the virtuous cycle of the DC elite.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What they should do: Build city-subsidized 3BR apartments for low-income housing on the site, with retail and restaurants on the first floor.

What they will do: Literally anything else.

Hard pass on the first idea. Thanks, but no thanks.

Definitely wouldn't want families who don't make $200,000 a year living anywhere near us, would we?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everything in that area dies.

Yep, they tried to revitalized that area with the high end shops but man, what a dud that was. FH is where retail goes to die for some reason.

It was the wrong kind of high end: way too flashy. The older department stores, Brooks Brothers, Tiffany’s and Saks Jandal all did quite well there. Post-Covid though, could be a serious hit.

FH was not good for retail because the area was poorly planned. You have a mall like Mazza that has a Neiman Marcus right next to a McDonald's and TJ Maxx that features a decrepit garage, for example. Moreover, what's the purpose of sticking all these department stores across major roads and sticking Saks so far from Neiman Marcus? The area doesn't have a consistent character and these department stores are across busy streets and far enough apart to not entice people to walk around the neighborhood.

These high-end department stores would get more business if they were in a place like the White Flint Mall site, especially if it was paired with high-end boutiques and restaurants in an open air Pike and Rose concept, with luxury apartments, condos and hotels thrown in, not to mention a much nicer garage. It would entice people to spend hours there and the residences would create a built-in client base as well.

If you had all of the property of Mazza and these department stores in a developers hands, and threw in the Geico headquarters as well, you could have a really nice development. And you wouldn't need tax incentives to do so. Developers are probably chomping at the bit to put $2-$3 million townhomes in the area and high rise condos at the Saks location since it doesn't have to deal with the height restrictions like in DC.

That's Tyson's Galleria (but not the open air part). Pike and Rose is a nice concept but the stores are kind of underwhelming.

Enclosed malls are a dying breed. Places like Pike and Rose and the Mosaic District are the future. There's no reason you can't create a high end version of Pike and Rose with three department stores anchoring the property (Saks, Bloomingdales, Neiman Marcus) like they used Target to anchor the Mosaic District.

The market for high-end brick and mortar retail is small and shrinking. When everything is available online, the importance of convenience goes up. But convenience is much less driven by "close to my house" and much more driven by "everything I want is in the same place." No one really enjoys driving long distances from store to store.

Which is why I think that downtown + Tysons is really the future when it comes to high-end clothes shopping. No new development will be able to compete at the scale of these two, and having just a handful of high-end shops is just a vastly inferior consumer experience to having them all in one place.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What they should do: Build city-subsidized 3BR apartments for low-income housing on the site, with retail and restaurants on the first floor.

What they will do: Literally anything else.

Hard pass on the first idea. Thanks, but no thanks.

Definitely wouldn't want families who don't make $200,000 a year living anywhere near us, would we?

Not so much, no. Actually I think my cutoff for a 2-earner household in DC is about $175k. That would include a physical therapist + teacher combo, or library science MS + nurse practitioner couple. NIH biologists. Etc.

But you’re correct, as a neighbor with a large investment in my property, I definitely wouldn’t want too many low income / working class households here. Just the minimum required by DC law for any redevelopment project.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everything in that area dies.

Yep, they tried to revitalized that area with the high end shops but man, what a dud that was. FH is where retail goes to die for some reason.

It was the wrong kind of high end: way too flashy. The older department stores, Brooks Brothers, Tiffany’s and Saks Jandal all did quite well there. Post-Covid though, could be a serious hit.

Brooks Brothers and Saks Jandel are gone. Even Brooks Brothers couldn't survive there, in a place filled with Brooks Brothers shoppers.

Brooks Brothers has just reopened. Saks Jandel closed because of family issues — not because they weren’t doing well. My limited understanding is that the person who inherited SJ wasn’t all that interested in running a store. This is on top of development plans for the site which were also a factor in Sylene’s closing — another longtime business that continued to do well.