Lord and Taylor space in Friendship Heights

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everything in that area dies.

Yep, they tried to revitalized that area with the high end shops but man, what a dud that was. FH is where retail goes to die for some reason.

It was the wrong kind of high end: way too flashy. The older department stores, Brooks Brothers, Tiffany’s and Saks Jandal all did quite well there. Post-Covid though, could be a serious hit.

FH was not good for retail because the area was poorly planned. You have a mall like Mazza that has a Neiman Marcus right next to a McDonald's and TJ Maxx that features a decrepit garage, for example. Moreover, what's the purpose of sticking all these department stores across major roads and sticking Saks so far from Neiman Marcus? The area doesn't have a consistent character and these department stores are across busy streets and far enough apart to not entice people to walk around the neighborhood.

These high-end department stores would get more business if they were in a place like the White Flint Mall site, especially if it was paired with high-end boutiques and restaurants in an open air Pike and Rose concept, with luxury apartments, condos and hotels thrown in, not to mention a much nicer garage. It would entice people to spend hours there and the residences would create a built-in client base as well.

If you had all of the property of Mazza and these department stores in a developers hands, and threw in the Geico headquarters as well, you could have a really nice development. And you wouldn't need tax incentives to do so. Developers are probably chomping at the bit to put $2-$3 million townhomes in the area and high rise condos at the Saks location since it doesn't have to deal with the height restrictions like in DC.

Saks and Lord and Taylor, along with Woodies and maybe Hechts were there long before any malls were built in the area. The Mazda Gallerie, with Neiman Marcus and, later development across the street on Wisconsin were actually efforts that pulled the neighborhood together, along with the original shops in the area with Clydes, providing reasons for neighborhood residents to do frequent shopping, with Borders and Linens and Things. It was a balance that worked well, even with an increase in online shopping. What actually changed the balance has been the closings of multiple stores and chains as a whole — even when the FH branches themselves did well.

TLDR: While you might be right, note that the placement of the original department stores was not planned. Also, IMO, the least successful concepts have been the ones that were developer driven — such as the mess that was the high end “Rodeo Drive” stores.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What they should do: Build city-subsidized 3BR apartments for low-income housing on the site, with retail and restaurants on the first floor.

What they will do: Literally anything else.

Hard pass on the first idea. Thanks, but no thanks.

Definitely wouldn't want families who don't make $200,000 a year living anywhere near us, would we?

Not so much, no. Actually I think my cutoff for a 2-earner household in DC is about $175k. That would include a physical therapist + teacher combo, or library science MS + nurse practitioner couple. NIH biologists. Etc.

But you’re correct, as a neighbor with a large investment in my property, I definitely wouldn’t want too many low income / working class households here. Just the minimum required by DC law for any redevelopment project.

I am also a neighbor with a large investment in my property, and I'd be very happy to see subsidized family housing built on that site. We need more housing in D.C., and we need more affordable housing near Metro stations and in expensive areas.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Cheesecake Factory and Maggiannos did a great job of drawing people to the area, and some of the other stores did as well. The loss of Borders, many years ago, and of Linens and Things really changed the neighborhood shopping patterns. The mix of stores now is not strong enough to pull in destination shoppers from other neighborhoods. Sadly, though, it also lacks a mix that meets the needs of residents.

I used to go to Borders multiple times a week, then make other stops on my way to the Giant. Now I’m going to other neighborhoods just to buy groceries— which means a lot fewer spontaneous stops at other shops along the way.

Yup! Once it lost Borders, and Bethesda gave up on Barnes & Noble, I go up to Rockville, which is PITA. Or, I just pop into Politics and Prose. To just have lunch and clothes shop is not for me. So shortsighted.

[Anonymous]

PP to add that it needs a park at the center like the one in NYC - is it Bryant Park. Where people can play hackeysack and chess and get all the good fast casual. When you see people out, it creates demand. Would love to see more green space there. There's flat space across from the bus stop, but they need to have a community development group that plans concerts and art shows, etc.

[Anonymous]

When I was 16 (so 40 years ago) I bought a Perry Ellis sweater at that Saks Jandal with money I made babysitting. I still have it and sometimes still wear it. I just thought I’d share!

[Anonymous]

The southern part of Tenleytown is developing pretty fast:
https://dc.urbanturf.com/articles/blog/the-1900-units-on-the-boards-between-tenleytown-and-au-park/18033

2000 units are slated; 10% are set aside for the working class. ~1200 seem to have broken ground (the wegman's complex). Maybe this boom will also happen a bit further up Wisconsin.

Hell even Glover Park is getting new development.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When I was 16 (so 40 years ago) I bought a Perry Ellis sweater at that Saks Jandal with money I made babysitting. I still have it and sometimes still wear it. I just thought I’d share!

Did you get attitude with your sweater? I kind of miss having to ask 'Which Saks?', which I guess was my bringing attitude of my own. Kind of cool you've kept your sweater for so long, I can believe it was amazingly good, better than you find now. The truth is that shopping strip (and its goods) was (were) probably much more rarefied in the past...even though DC is much richer now, the rest of the world was much, much less well off. Times change!

[Anonymous]

Anyone remember when Versace got robbed by a gang of couture (designer?) obsessed drag queens and the police had a standoff (slight exaggeration...) with them?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everything in that area dies.

Yep, they tried to revitalized that area with the high end shops but man, what a dud that was. FH is where retail goes to die for some reason.

We live hear FH and have really seen it change in 15 years. Now, unfortunately, it feels so sterile and kind of like a ghost town. It's a terrific location, and I hope that some developer will put nice housing there. (It's unrealistic to think that retail clothing will come back, as people now buy that online or in big malls.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What they should do: Build city-subsidized 3BR apartments for low-income housing on the site, with retail and restaurants on the first floor.

What they will do: Literally anything else.

This seems like a nice idea in theory, but many people who live here FH would be concerned about property values declining if subsidized housing was brought there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What they should do: Build city-subsidized 3BR apartments for low-income housing on the site, with retail and restaurants on the first floor.

What they will do: Literally anything else.

Hard pass on the first idea. Thanks, but no thanks.

Definitely wouldn't want families who don't make $200,000 a year living anywhere near us, would we?

Not so much, no. Actually I think my cutoff for a 2-earner household in DC is about $175k. That would include a physical therapist + teacher combo, or library science MS + nurse practitioner couple. NIH biologists. Etc.

But you’re correct, as a neighbor with a large investment in my property, I definitely wouldn’t want too many low income / working class households here. Just the minimum required by DC law for any redevelopment project.

+1

I appreciate the sentiment, but have zero desire for increased affordable housing in the immediate area. We can't all afford to live wherever we wish.

Investing in accessibility to education, healthcare, and well paying jobs seems likely to be more impactful long-term.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The southern part of Tenleytown is developing pretty fast:
https://dc.urbanturf.com/articles/blog/the-1900-units-on-the-boards-between-tenleytown-and-au-park/18033

2000 units are slated; 10% are set aside for the working class. ~1200 seem to have broken ground (the wegman's complex). Maybe this boom will also happen a bit further up Wisconsin.

Hell even Glover Park is getting new development.

Interesting. Unless all of that development is priced extremely competitively, I envision a great deal of for-lease signage and move-in specials. Nowhere near enough demand to support that many units at current market rates (without speculating decades into the future).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The southern part of Tenleytown is developing pretty fast:
https://dc.urbanturf.com/articles/blog/the-1900-units-on-the-boards-between-tenleytown-and-au-park/18033

2000 units are slated; 10% are set aside for the working class. ~1200 seem to have broken ground (the wegman's complex). Maybe this boom will also happen a bit further up Wisconsin.

Hell even Glover Park is getting new development.

Interesting. Unless all of that development is priced extremely competitively, I envision a great deal of for-lease signage and move-in specials. Nowhere near enough demand to support that many units at current market rates (without speculating decades into the future).

Good then prices will fall making the area more affordable. I think it is called the free market.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The southern part of Tenleytown is developing pretty fast:
https://dc.urbanturf.com/articles/blog/the-1900-units-on-the-boards-between-tenleytown-and-au-park/18033

2000 units are slated; 10% are set aside for the working class. ~1200 seem to have broken ground (the wegman's complex). Maybe this boom will also happen a bit further up Wisconsin.

Hell even Glover Park is getting new development.

This is awful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The southern part of Tenleytown is developing pretty fast:
https://dc.urbanturf.com/articles/blog/the-1900-units-on-the-boards-between-tenleytown-and-au-park/18033

2000 units are slated; 10% are set aside for the working class. ~1200 seem to have broken ground (the wegman's complex). Maybe this boom will also happen a bit further up Wisconsin.

Hell even Glover Park is getting new development.

This is awful.

It’s certainly a new vision. I’m not sure what I think of it all.