Two Sarahs: new motherhood in Sweden vs Seattle

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'd rather be in the USA and choose to work for a company with work life balance if that's what I desire in my life versus being forced to subsidize Sarah Sweden.

+ 1

If you are middle class or higher, living standards are much higher in the US than in Europe. And the baby stage is a short period in life, relatively speaking.

Yeah, well... many of us are barely hanging on to middle class, especially considering the high cost of living here. One serious recession and job loss, and many middle class folks will fall right off into the precipice of poverty with no social system to support us. Most of this country is always on the verge of financial ruin and they don't even know it.

Not to he middle class people who post on here (I.e. those who think 300hhi in DC is mc).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'd rather be in the USA and choose to work for a company with work life balance if that's what I desire in my life versus being forced to subsidize Sarah Sweden.

+ 1

If you are middle class or higher, living standards are much higher in the US than in Europe. And the baby stage is a short period in life, relatively speaking.

Yeah, well... many of us are barely hanging on to middle class, especially considering the high cost of living here. One serious recession and job loss, and many middle class folks will fall right off into the precipice of poverty with no social system to support us. Most of this country is always on the verge of financial ruin and they don't even know it.

If you were truly “barely hanging on” you wouldn’t be hanging out on DCUM. You’d be working a third job. We’re “in ruin” yet just last year we had the cash to cut taxes for the ultra rich who turned around and put their profits in offshore bank accounts rather than reinvest in their companies. And billions for new fighter jets. But we get it-supporting mothers in giving their child the best start in life isn’t one of your priorities.

You know what? It isn’t and that should be ok. We as a society get to decide what to prioritize vs. not. We prioritize national security over your maternity leave. You can figure it out just like we all did.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People saying Sweden has a “homogeneous” population have never been there. I visited family in Sweden recently and I was surprised by the number of immigrants even in small towns in the middle of nowhere.

Yes. I think a lot of people on this thread have never set foot in Sweden and just don’t want to admit that another country has a superior system for women. About 20 percent of Sweden’s population is foreign born, which is a lot.
https://voiceofeurope.com/2019/10/nearly-1-5-of-swedens-population-is-now-foreign-born/

And you know who doesn't want them there? The Swedes. Go ahead read to the bottom of the article and click into the Pew study. Now imagine being a Iraqi woman in Sweden.

You don’t need to derail this thread with 6 posts complaining about immigrants and how you don’t think moms deserve maternity leave. Try consolidating your thoughts into one post like the grownups do. And despite the Swedes “not liking” immigrants, they still manage to treat them dignity and provide them with health care and maternity leave. Imagine that!

That would be my first post. I do think people are misguided to think that Sweden is some sort of utopia for immigrants -- especially immigrant women.

[Anonymous]

I’d rather see universal healthcare than paid parental leave.

You don’t have to become a parent, that’s your choice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But Sweden has a mix of capitalism and socialism. Socialism would never work here in the US!

Because the truth is, people don't want to subside others who are not just like them racially, socially, ethnically, you name it.

Speak for your own (insular, racist) self. I’m happy to have all women have maternity leave-whether they’re white, black, brown or an odd shade of unnaturally tanned orange. Babies are better off when their mothers get paid time off to care for them, and we as a society are better off with happier healthier children. The US is the only developed country that doesn’t offer paid maternity leave and it’s a disgrace.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But Sweden has a mix of capitalism and socialism. Socialism would never work here in the US!

Because the truth is, people don't want to subside others who are not just like them racially, socially, ethnically, you name it.

Speak for your own (insular, racist) self. I’m happy to have all women have maternity leave-whether they’re white, black, brown or an odd shade of unnaturally tanned orange. Babies are better off when their mothers get paid time off to care for them, and we as a society are better off with happier healthier children. The US is the only developed country that doesn’t offer paid maternity leave and it’s a disgrace.

You’re not too bright are you? If people actually valued these things, we’d already have it.

We don’t so we won’t. Simple as that. Don’t waste your energy on this, it’s a lost cause

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But Sweden has a mix of capitalism and socialism. Socialism would never work here in the US!

Because the truth is, people don't want to subside others who are not just like them racially, socially, ethnically, you name it.

Speak for your own (insular, racist) self. I’m happy to have all women have maternity leave-whether they’re white, black, brown or an odd shade of unnaturally tanned orange. Babies are better off when their mothers get paid time off to care for them, and we as a society are better off with happier healthier children. The US is the only developed country that doesn’t offer paid maternity leave and it’s a disgrace.

Actually tons of studies have been done showing kids are just as well off with working moms and full time childcare as sahms.


So there’s no reason to pay for it. If you want to stay home or take a break, pay for it yourself. It’s a choice, no one owes you a dime.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But Sweden has a mix of capitalism and socialism. Socialism would never work here in the US!

Because the truth is, people don't want to subside others who are not just like them racially, socially, ethnically, you name it.

Speak for your own (insular, racist) self. I’m happy to have all women have maternity leave-whether they’re white, black, brown or an odd shade of unnaturally tanned orange. Babies are better off when their mothers get paid time off to care for them, and we as a society are better off with happier healthier children. The US is the only developed country that doesn’t offer paid maternity leave and it’s a disgrace.

Actually tons of studies have been done showing kids are just as well off with working moms and full time childcare as sahms.


So there’s no reason to pay for it. If you want to stay home or take a break, pay for it yourself. It’s a choice, no one owes you a dime.

My wife got four months of maternity leave with her company. I've taken 3 months of paternity leave with mine. If you've got competitive skills and companies need to hire at a certain level of expertise, they will provide some type of leave. One thing you start to realize really quickly when you're working with European people (and I use a broad brush because I haven't found differences between germany, france, sweden, czech republic), is that they can barely get anything done. Critical e-mails that would be mandated responses within 24-48 hours are frequently forgotten about or left unopened for up to a month or more. Items that you discussed over and over are omitted from plans or failed to be properly executed. I lived in the EU for several years and have traveled to almost every country on the continent. The people are by and large very nice, but they are also lazy as hell and do not take their work seriously. The last thing we need is to emulate them.

What is it about your work that’s so important?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’d rather see universal healthcare than paid parental leave.

You don’t have to become a parent, that’s your choice.

lol

Should people pay for their own cancer treatment because smoking was their choice?

What about people who choose to go skiing and break a keg? Should that fall under the “bad decision” out of pocket category?

Just about every health care need is the result of someone’s personal choice. If you’re going to limit coverage to things that are out of people’s control you basically have genetic disorders coverage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’d rather see universal healthcare than paid parental leave.

You don’t have to become a parent, that’s your choice.

lol

Should people pay for their own cancer treatment because smoking was their choice?

What about people who choose to go skiing and break a keg? Should that fall under the “bad decision” out of pocket category?

Just about every health care need is the result of someone’s personal choice. If you’re going to limit coverage to things that are out of people’s control you basically have genetic disorders coverage.

+1. Let’s stop funding public schools because it’s a choice that people make to have kids. It’s sad that some people don’t get that part of being in a civilized society means that you have to pay to support others for the good of society even if you’d rather spend it on Starbucks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But Sweden has a mix of capitalism and socialism. Socialism would never work here in the US!

Because the truth is, people don't want to subside others who are not just like them racially, socially, ethnically, you name it.

Speak for your own (insular, racist) self. I’m happy to have all women have maternity leave-whether they’re white, black, brown or an odd shade of unnaturally tanned orange. Babies are better off when their mothers get paid time off to care for them, and we as a society are better off with happier healthier children. The US is the only developed country that doesn’t offer paid maternity leave and it’s a disgrace.

Actually tons of studies have been done showing kids are just as well off with working moms and full time childcare as sahms.


So there’s no reason to pay for it. If you want to stay home or take a break, pay for it yourself. It’s a choice, no one owes you a dime.

You are ignorant of the issues. There is ample evidence the maternity leave improves outcomes for children. That is not the same thing as saying that women need to stay home with their kids as a SAHM.

See this paper from the NIH for example.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5810022/

A review of the literature finds that paid parental leave may support improvements across a range of SDG outcomes relevant to maternal and child health. Across national income levels, paid leave has been associated with lower infant mortality and higher rates of immunizations. In high-income countries, studies have found that paid leave increases exclusive breastfeeding and may improve women’s economic outcomes. However, factors including the duration of leave, the wage replacement rate, and whether leave is made available to both parents importantly shape the impacts of paid leave policies. While most countries now offer at least some paid maternal leave, many provide less than the 6 months recommended for exclusive breastfeeding, and only around half as many provide paternal leave.

[Anonymous]

Women do get hired into permanent positions. Small and mid sized companies are hesitant, but women are employed by these despite the long maternity leave.
The difference is that poor women can stay home, whereas here that is a privilege afforded to the married and wealthy
The other side of the story is that a man's salary often is not enough to support a family

It is not a wonderland. The weather is awful. You cannot fix that.
If being Swedish is your thing, then it is good.
If you feel alien or foreign, it will not be your home and you will be miserable

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Women do get hired into permanent positions. Small and mid sized companies are hesitant, but women are employed by these despite the long maternity leave.
The difference is that poor women can stay home, whereas here that is a privilege afforded to the married and wealthy
The other side of the story is that a man's salary often is not enough to support a family

It is not a wonderland. The weather is awful. You cannot fix that.
If being Swedish is your thing, then it is good.
If you feel alien or foreign, it will not be your home and you will be miserable

Have you been to Sweden? Yes the winter is colder than DC but it’s also beautiful and the summers are spectacular. I have two friends from grad school who married Swedish men and who have relocated there. They said it’s a much better place to raise small children than the north east area of the US where they grew up.

[Anonymous]

This article was a little annoying - it painted a VERY rosy picture of being a working mother in Sweden and a VERY dismal picture of being a working mother in the U.S.

For comparison - my friends in Europe (a few different countries, including one in Sweden) say that as a woman in your late 20s/early 30s, it's hard to get a job because people are worried that you'll get pregnant and leave for a year, meaning they'll have to find and hire a temporary replacement which is really hard.

And most working women that read the Harvard Business Review are not in the US woman's situation. A lot of professional women are eligible for FMLA and get 6-10 weeks paid through disability insurance (not everyone, that's why I said a lot). A lot of women (even those of us in this area where childcare is a nightmare) are able to figure something out (but yes, for many, it IS prohibitively expensive). And the weird dumping work on the new mom thing also doesn't happen t everyone. I"m not saying that the description for her was not realistic, I know there are a lot of people who have it that bad or worse, but it's also a worst case scenario, don't you think?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'd rather be in the USA and choose to work for a company with work life balance if that's what I desire in my life versus being forced to subsidize Sarah Sweden.

Oh look at you cute MAGA lady.