Two Sarahs: new motherhood in Sweden vs Seattle

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Swedes are paying for their healthcare, maternity leave, etc. They just pay it through their taxes.
Sweden top bracket 56.60% vs US top bracket 37%.

Boo how. So the income over 1 million/year is taxed slightly higher? And for that everyone gets Heath are and paid parental leave?

Yes, that sounds absolutely horrible!

One, I have to assume you don't speak to people like that where you work? Two, you are making assumptions about my intent. Three, the point is to have a constructive dialog, not bash people with sarcasm because somehow this makes you feel empowered?? And, four, if you're going to use sarcasm, at least spell it correctly.

Whatever the case, I was only stating facts. If the US wants to up its taxes then more can be done.

I mean either you're paying for healthcare/childcare out of pocket, or you are paying for in taxes. You're STILL PAYING FOR IT.

+1

Speaking as an upper income family, I’d rather pay for my own things (maternity leave, health insurance, private school) and let other people do the same.

Guarantee, if we moved to Sweden, our lifestyle would be less because of taxes.

Or more
You could pocket the cost of your private health insurance, private school tuition, 529 savings, vacation more

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Swedes are paying for their healthcare, maternity leave, etc. They just pay it through their taxes.
Sweden top bracket 56.60% vs US top bracket 37%.

Boo how. So the income over 1 million/year is taxed slightly higher? And for that everyone gets Heath are and paid parental leave?

Yes, that sounds absolutely horrible!

One, I have to assume you don't speak to people like that where you work? Two, you are making assumptions about my intent. Three, the point is to have a constructive dialog, not bash people with sarcasm because somehow this makes you feel empowered?? And, four, if you're going to use sarcasm, at least spell it correctly.

Whatever the case, I was only stating facts. If the US wants to up its taxes then more can be done.

I mean either you're paying for healthcare/childcare out of pocket, or you are paying for in taxes. You're STILL PAYING FOR IT.

+1

Speaking as an upper income family, I’d rather pay for my own things (maternity leave, health insurance, private school) and let other people do the same.

Guarantee, if we moved to Sweden, our lifestyle would be less because of taxes.

Translation: I am wealthy and screw the poorer people in society. Their kids may have higher rates of infant mortality due to lack of maternity leave but I need that luxury minivan!

[Anonymous]

European countries have generous parental leave policies for a reason. Demographics. Their populations are aging. Society needs people to make the "lifestyle choice" to have children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Swedes are paying for their healthcare, maternity leave, etc. They just pay it through their taxes.
Sweden top bracket 56.60% vs US top bracket 37%.

Boo how. So the income over 1 million/year is taxed slightly higher? And for that everyone gets Heath are and paid parental leave?

Yes, that sounds absolutely horrible!

One, I have to assume you don't speak to people like that where you work? Two, you are making assumptions about my intent. Three, the point is to have a constructive dialog, not bash people with sarcasm because somehow this makes you feel empowered?? And, four, if you're going to use sarcasm, at least spell it correctly.

Whatever the case, I was only stating facts. If the US wants to up its taxes then more can be done.

I mean either you're paying for healthcare/childcare out of pocket, or you are paying for in taxes. You're STILL PAYING FOR IT.

+1

Speaking as an upper income family, I’d rather pay for my own things (maternity leave, health insurance, private school) and let other people do the same.

Guarantee, if we moved to Sweden, our lifestyle would be less because of taxes.

You took what I said the wrong way - I'd rather pay for it in taxes so that everyone can reap the benefits and not just me.

You sound pretty disgusting. Let me guess, you voted for MAGA?

[Anonymous]

Everyone is not an upper income family. Everyone will need hospital services at some time
Every pregnancy will end in a birth, parental leave is a necessity to recover from birth. Infant is not a lifestyle choice. They have to have a lot of care. Children are born into all kinds of circumstances. We are in this world together

A few weeks of parental leave is not much to ask for. You will work a lifetime, society provides your kid with 12 years of public schooling anyway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Everyone is not an upper income family. Everyone will need hospital services at some time
Every pregnancy will end in a birth, parental leave is a necessity to recover from birth. Infant is not a lifestyle choice. They have to have a lot of care. Children are born into all kinds of circumstances. We are in this world together

A few weeks of parental leave is not much to ask for. You will work a lifetime, society provides your kid with 12 years of public schooling anyway.

Having kids is a choice. If you can’t afford to have kids and maintain the lifestyle you want, then don’t have kids. You don’t have the right to have everyone else pay for your choices. Grow up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Everyone is not an upper income family. Everyone will need hospital services at some time
Every pregnancy will end in a birth, parental leave is a necessity to recover from birth. Infant is not a lifestyle choice. They have to have a lot of care. Children are born into all kinds of circumstances. We are in this world together

A few weeks of parental leave is not much to ask for. You will work a lifetime, society provides your kid with 12 years of public schooling anyway.

+1 it’s amazing that people get so huffy about funding a few weeks of maternity leave and forget that we as a society fund an extensive system of free public school. Kids are at their most vulnerable and needy as infants.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone is not an upper income family. Everyone will need hospital services at some time
Every pregnancy will end in a birth, parental leave is a necessity to recover from birth. Infant is not a lifestyle choice. They have to have a lot of care. Children are born into all kinds of circumstances. We are in this world together

A few weeks of parental leave is not much to ask for. You will work a lifetime, society provides your kid with 12 years of public schooling anyway.

Having kids is a choice. If you can’t afford to have kids and maintain the lifestyle you want, then don’t have kids. You don’t have the right to have everyone else pay for your choices. Grow up.

The previous poster reflects the prevailing attitude in the US, at least when it comes to those who control the levers of power. And this is why nothing will ever change. Truly, we are on our own. But hey, tax credit!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone is not an upper income family. Everyone will need hospital services at some time
Every pregnancy will end in a birth, parental leave is a necessity to recover from birth. Infant is not a lifestyle choice. They have to have a lot of care. Children are born into all kinds of circumstances. We are in this world together

A few weeks of parental leave is not much to ask for. You will work a lifetime, society provides your kid with 12 years of public schooling anyway.

Having kids is a choice. If you can’t afford to have kids and maintain the lifestyle you want, then don’t have kids. You don’t have the right to have everyone else pay for your choices. Grow up.

The previous poster reflects the prevailing attitude in the US, at least when it comes to those who control the levers of power. And this is why nothing will ever change. Truly, we are on our own. But hey, tax credit!

Every other major decision in life involves (or should involve) a consideration of cost. I don't understand why some women seem to think the decision to have kids should not involve this type of analysis.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone is not an upper income family. Everyone will need hospital services at some time
Every pregnancy will end in a birth, parental leave is a necessity to recover from birth. Infant is not a lifestyle choice. They have to have a lot of care. Children are born into all kinds of circumstances. We are in this world together

A few weeks of parental leave is not much to ask for. You will work a lifetime, society provides your kid with 12 years of public schooling anyway.

Having kids is a choice. If you can’t afford to have kids and maintain the lifestyle you want, then don’t have kids. You don’t have the right to have everyone else pay for your choices. Grow up.

The previous poster reflects the prevailing attitude in the US, at least when it comes to those who control the levers of power. And this is why nothing will ever change. Truly, we are on our own. But hey, tax credit!

Nobody asks to be born

Maternity leave is for the benefit of the baby

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's very hard to get hired as a woman in Sweden for this reason.

Exactly. Taxpayers don’t want to pay for that. People should pay for their own lifestyle choices.

+ 1

I would be embarrassed to be some of these other posters in here asking (no DEMANDING) other people to pay for my lifestyle. It's so tacky and low class. Get a better job. Go back to school. Don't have kids before you are financially prepared for them! Abortion exists so don't @me about unplanned pregnancies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's very hard to get hired as a woman in Sweden for this reason.

Exactly. Taxpayers don’t want to pay for that. People should pay for their own lifestyle choices.

+ 1

I would be embarrassed to be some of these other posters in here asking (no DEMANDING) other people to pay for my lifestyle. It's so tacky and low class. Get a better job. Go back to school. Don't have kids before you are financially prepared for them! Abortion exists so don't @me about unplanned pregnancies.

THIS

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This article was a little annoying - it painted a VERY rosy picture of being a working mother in Sweden and a VERY dismal picture of being a working mother in the U.S.

For comparison - my friends in Europe (a few different countries, including one in Sweden) say that as a woman in your late 20s/early 30s, it's hard to get a job because people are worried that you'll get pregnant and leave for a year, meaning they'll have to find and hire a temporary replacement which is really hard.

And most working women that read the Harvard Business Review are not in the US woman's situation. A lot of professional women are eligible for FMLA and get 6-10 weeks paid through disability insurance (not everyone, that's why I said a lot). A lot of women (even those of us in this area where childcare is a nightmare) are able to figure something out (but yes, for many, it IS prohibitively expensive). And the weird dumping work on the new mom thing also doesn't happen t everyone. I"m not saying that the description for her was not realistic, I know there are a lot of people who have it that bad or worse, but it's also a worst case scenario, don't you think?

Eligible for a whole 10 paid weeks!!!!

Listen, I would MUCH prefer to live in Sweden than here, and have those maternity policies over our shitty ass ones, I'm just saying that the article went to the extreme on both sides.

I'm not sure what bubble you live in to think that the US Sarah's experience was "extreme" and a "worst case scenario". I've read DCUM long enough to know it's not, and that there's plenty of working women who save, plan, research in advance, and are still knocked flat by the lack of support due to pure circumstance. I got 10 weeks of paid leave with my first, 16 weeks paid leave with my second, we had a good experience with our daycare, and I returned to a decent work environment. It was still so hard, and between keeping up with work, not sleeping, catching constant illness, and just plain missing my babies - we were burnt out. Yet my company's policies are considered generous, and the (minimum humane) amount of flexibility and accommodation I was offered in returning to work is held up as a shining example. So if I'm representative of a relatively positive experience, it's easy to extrapolate how shitty it can get for those who didn't manage to align all the stars of career, company policy, money, partner, care, health, timing etc. And yet people in this thread seem to think that's a character flaw as opposed to a cultural and systemic problem. It's f*cked up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's very hard to get hired as a woman in Sweden for this reason.

Exactly. Taxpayers don’t want to pay for that. People should pay for their own lifestyle choices.

+ 1

I would be embarrassed to be some of these other posters in here asking (no DEMANDING) other people to pay for my lifestyle. It's so tacky and low class. Get a better job. Go back to school. Don't have kids before you are financially prepared for them! Abortion exists so don't @me about unplanned pregnancies.

THIS

FYI
More women work in Sweden than here
Women do get jobs and are employed

Babies are born into all kinds of circumstances. You cannot change that. Get over it
Maternity leave is to recover from birth.

Sick leave to recover from a broken leg, heart surgery, lung cancer is covered

What is the big deal? How is birth lifestyle?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's very hard to get hired as a woman in Sweden for this reason.

Exactly. Taxpayers don’t want to pay for that. People should pay for their own lifestyle choices.

+ 1

I would be embarrassed to be some of these other posters in here asking (no DEMANDING) other people to pay for my lifestyle. It's so tacky and low class. Get a better job. Go back to school. Don't have kids before you are financially prepared for them! Abortion exists so don't @me about unplanned pregnancies.

THIS

FYI
More women work in Sweden than here
Women do get jobs and are employed

Babies are born into all kinds of circumstances. You cannot change that. Get over it
Maternity leave is to recover from birth.

Sick leave to recover from a broken leg, heart surgery, lung cancer is covered

What is the big deal? How is birth lifestyle?

You can take the time off but don't expect your income to be covered by other people (i.e. taxpayers). Save in advance so you can still pay your bills.