What about the men who would love to put less of a focus on their careers and let the wife step up, but feel that society would look less upon them if they weren't the primary/equal breadwinners? I've known SAHDs, and it's not an easy position for them, even in more progressive communities. One of my friends used to say he was a freelancer (not true) just because he felt other couples looked down on him. You could look at this economic system and see sexism in both directions. You are viewing the person with the rising career as the fortunate one, but the one staying at home with the kids could also be seen that way. These are decisions that should be made by the couple, with respect for each spouse's desires taken into account, and we should trust that women are capable of making their own family decisions with their spouses without condescendingly accusing them of "rationalizing" their educated choices. |
NP. I think that PP is telling you to consider the time and place for your comments. A thread about thinking about becoming a SAHM and asking other SAHMs for their experiences is probably not the best place to start railing against the patriarchy. |
Yes, a privileged perspective, but useful advice as OP seems to have this choice exactly. And I would guess that both OP and the PP you quote recognize their good fortune. |
Personally, I leaned out. I have a job I like that I feel contributes to society but I have hit a ceiling that I can’t get around without either going back to graduate school or making a lateral move into the business aspect of the work.
I have a great boss who doesn’t check my hours as long as I get the work done and once I leave the office I don’t think about work. Twice a week I leave at 4 pm to take the kids to activities. |
“Who thinks his wife is the most amazing person in the world, because...” This right here. The golden handcuffs of patriarchy. I’m not buying that any husband with a SAHW really thinks that. For one, if he thought it was that amazing work he’d want to do it himself, not just watch from the sidelines. Moreover I don’t see men with big jobs lionizing service people such as nannies, housekeepers, cleaning women, maids, cooks, etc. They have their secretaries and cleaning people and cafeteria workers at the office and I have never seen any man with a big job stop to reflect on the countless women who make it possible for him to sit at the top. Come on...isn’t it just the height of self-deception to idealize this to such a degree? The men I know who really think it is important work make time to do it. And I also know a fair amount of men who respect their wives for kicking ass at work and being great mothers, though I wouldn’t go so far as to say “most amazing person in the world.” That’s a line Hallmark made up so women would feel less shitty for doing all the repetitive, unpaid, unrecognized work of raising a family and running a house. |
We're not really disagreeing here. Dismantling the patriarchy would include supporting men who stay at home or not rewarding them for being selfish workaholics. Then, families really can make decisions that suit their personalities and preferences. I do not view any person with the rising career as more fortunate, or anyone staying at home as less fortunate. The reality is that men are more likely to get promotions and less likely to feel guilty about working long hours. Women getting "mommy tracked" is a real issue. That treatment of women is condescending, not my criticism of it. |
+1. I do philosophy — ethics, moral psychology, intellectual history. I find a lot of fulfillment in family and adore my kids. But I also love reading, writing, teaching, expanding my mind, and working to pass on a tradition of thought that I believe will make my children’s world and society richer over time. I think when you are a parent your kids need all of you, and this is a part of my life’s purpose that lets me bring more to my relationship with them. My work experience has also made me a better parent — better at negotiating, better at teaching, better at prioritizing and long-range planning. I wouldn’t say those skills are part of my “life’s purpose,” necessarily, but I think the dichotomy between work and parenting is too simplistic in a lot of these posts. |
No, comments like "I'm trying to get women to see beyond what they have already rationalized to themselves," and putting "choices" in quotation marks as if a woman is unable to truly make independent, thoughtful and careful decisions - about what works best for herself, spouse and family - suggest a condescension towards women who make different choices than you. By the way, that same sexism you decry has a lot to say about the "selfishness" of WOMEN who are "workaholics", none of it positive. No one, male or female, should be "shamed for having career ambitions." |
False dichotomy. Every choice is made within a matrix of costs, benefits, and trade offs. An ideology of personal choice that ignores the structures and policies within which choices are made is not empowering to women. It may be a personal choice for a woman to go along with a sexual assault and even marry the guy rather than succumbing to further harassment, life as a disgraced spinster, or an honor killing. But that doesn’t mean we don’t need sexual assault laws and laws that protect women from such social practices. It is a less extreme situation but just because a woman may choose to stay home and engage in unpaid childcare and domestic work doesn’t mean that we should not seriously examine the incentives and barriers which condition such a choice. |
Truth. I would have loved to have been a SAHM when my kids were small. |
Wow, that stinks. Are they due to affairs? |
OP, this right here is a problem. Regardless of whatever path you choose, the fact that your husband won't make a change and is therefore putting this all on your is not ok. If you keep working, you'll end up stressed and worn out. If you quit, who says he'll respect anything you do? You can consider how you'd feel about staying home or not, but the real thing you need to address is the fact that you and your husband are not on the same page. |
+1 |
-1 This is the exact argument that people make to say that women's place is at the home. If she chooses to work, she is valuing a bigger paycheck over her family. People can be driven in their careers and be wonderful parents as well. |
I totally agree with the PP who is discussing the internalized patriarchy. I'm SO tired of reading all these posts that rationalize the choice to stay home and do all the house and child care that NO ONE wants to do so "everyone's life is easier and more relaxing." Why aren't we asking why it is that the men always have the higher paying career and women are just working at a job? Now that my kids are raised, I'm so glad I had a husband who was as invested in my own professional success as much as his, and as invested in our children and home as much as I was. |