Unexpected sahm

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Anonymous wrote:I never thought I'd want to stay home with my kids either, op. I don't quite understand the first response to you, it seemed nasty. First, you have control over how it goes emotionally. First, you need things you can do and want to do with your kids. For us that required moving to a different house to a neighborhood with lots of kids and a neighborhood pool. The moms are great to socialize with, and it is incredibly relaxing going to the pool and seeing the same crowd. They don't know my innermost thoughts, and I don't know theirs, but I do like the consistency. The libraries are active with kids events, story times and the like, as are the local parks and nature centers. My goal is to spend as little money as possible on kids activities. We bought a house that has a central floor plan, I can hear everything that's going on without being in the same room. When I need/want quiet, I can shut my bedroom door, it is surprisingly sound-proof in there.
Join a religious group of your choosing, it is surprising how quickly your kids will like some of what they learn and the people they meet. Realize that with both groups, (and they) may not like everybody every time you and they see them, but they are a core group you can get to know. That is incredible valuable. Join a moms group, the good ones will keep you informed of events you can do during the day. Incorporate your kids into your interests, we are waiting for the Falcon Heavy to launch. Two of my kids are excited about it, and if the youngest gets up, he's joining us. Find books that you like that may be appropriate for your kids, the books get better the older they get. Tell them what you're reading and why you like it. Even my preschooler understands that romance books make me happy because people get married at the end. In other words, treat your kids like you value them. Listen to them and let them know what matters to you. Don't be afraid to tell your husband what you need. View staying at home as a career and act accordingly. Men aren't shy about asking for and getting what they need in order to do their jobs, so don't hesitate to learn from. My husband was thrilled about a new computer he got for his job. Finally, make sure your husband knows you and the kids need and want him around as much as possible. Nobody wants to be viewed as a walking wallet. Talk with him about why he travels so much and what he gets out of it. If it works for the family that's fine, just don't except it as what "has to be" if/when it becomes untennable to you or the kids. My husband seems surprised at how much he enjoys our kids. Make sure you and your kids aren't getting the butt end of your husband when he is home. All of you deserve better then that including him.

This sounds so suffocating. I would pay money to NOT join a religious group, hang out with moms at the pool, and read romance novels.

The contrast between "My husband was thrilled about a new computer he got for his job" and then "My husband seems surprised at how much he enjoys our kids" was a little jarring for me to read.

We all have different expectations of our spouses, but I get really tired of reading how women selflessly accommodate and support their husband's big important careers, and then celebrate when he does the most basic of fatherly duties, like enjoy the company of his kids.

When are we going to start calling men out for their selfish behavior? Story after story on this website emphasize that the husband cannot leave his high paying job that requires a lot of travel. Actually, if all of these moms can change their lives around to meet the needs of their children, then dads can do it too.

Yes. I agree with both of the responses here. Ugh, the original OP sounds so intolerable.

I think she sounds like a nice person who smiles a lot and enjoys spending time with her husband and children.
I imagine her as the lady at the pool in a modest swimsuit that a toddler is trying to pull down, watching and talking to her older kids, but not aggressively playing with them, and talking to the other moms and lifeguards.
When her husband shows up, he is one of those guys with a big job who thinks his wife is the most amazing person in the world for running their family and home life the way she does.
I am not saying that you have to want to be that person, but who hates that person?

Wow you are reading some dull romance novels. Look for a few stories with sexy swimsuits and lifeguard liaisons.

Seriously though--I am not here to bash SAHMs, I think that ground has been covered on DCUM. I'm just wondering why families orbit around the father's star at the expense of the other parent? Why does he not have to make any hard choices, while mothers have to agonize over their current and future job prospects, and also creating a supportive community in lieu of their husband's absence?

Why do people do this? $$$$

For a lot of men, having a sah wife frees them up to throw all their energy at work and can mean the difference between middle management and C-suite.

In other words, jobs that top out at 250-300k vs. 7 figures.

You care more about a bigger paycheck than your husband putting energy into his family. So be it.

Well first of all, my point simply was that it's a rational decision. You might not make it but it's understandable why other people do. Especially if they don't have family money to fall back on and instead have to build their net worth entirely on their own.

Secondly, in some fields, I don't think it's so simple as making a choice between money on one side and quality time on the other. My husband works in finance. As he becomes more senior in his company, he has more responsibility but he also has more flexibility. He's proven himself. He doesn't have to put so much face time in at the office anymore. He can come and go as he pleases to attend events at the kids' schools or leave early on a Friday afternoon to get a earlier flight for a vacation, etc.

This entire paradigm always perpetuates the success and support of the husband. You talk yourself into knots trying to justify or rationalize your decisions, but I'm not asking you to. It's clear that you want to stay at home--so that's great. This post is about women who don't really want to make that decision, but nevertheless find themselves struggling to achieve a work-life balance because their husband is on some trajectory to make a lot more money or travel more. HIS energy towards work simply cannot be compromised, so women become the default for giving up their own career ambitions.

I am just trying to get people to see beyond what they have already rationalized for themselves. Let's imagine a paradigm inversion, in which dads are shamed for having career ambitions, or can attend school events without having to prove himself at work first.

What you are talking about is unrealistic for families. Sorry, I should say MOST families. MOST families can't handle the stress of having two parents who both work 50-65 hour weeks and travel frequently. That's just the reality of dealing with time constraints and the needs of dependent children. Some families can make it work because they have an unusually dependable nanny or a grandma who moves in but those situations are something of a unicorn. Look at all the posts on here complaining about lacking a village.

So then couples start looking at the numbers. If one parent has to scale back, it makes sense to choose the person who will earn less. In many cases (many but not all) it is the man who is on track to earn more.

Anyway, people aren't telling her to give up work. She has choices. She can go part time, she can hire more out, she can try being a SAHM. It's not all or nothing.

Aside from that, she ASKED for people to who have been in her situation to share their stories. So that's what people have been doing. And you are attacking them for sharing their personal details, which again, is what the OP asked for.

You obviously have an agenda against SAHMs so I'm not sure what you're even doing in this post.

I have no ill will towards SAHMs. It's the patriarchy that I disdain. We've normalized the inequality in the workforce, and now it's just a fact that "the man is on track to earn more." This is what troubles me. The OP and moms like her to make some tough "choices," while her spouse doesn't have to. I wish this wasn't the norm.

Also, it's just not helpful to suggest that I'm "attacking" you. If you're looking for drama, pick up a romance novel.

That may be but realize that you're not talking to the "patriarchy" in here though. It's all women. So you're essentially blaming the victims.

The patriarchy is not simply an audience of men. It is systemic in that it normalizes inequality, especially in the workforce. Men, on average, can work extra hours and not feel societal pressure to obtain a "work-life" balance. Indeed, they are often celebrated for showing up to basic childhood events like recitals and games. Women, on average, feel more pressure in the workforce with less guarantee of promotion. They continue to do more work at home, and take on the majority of childcare duties. So, the choice to stay at home often looks "rational." Often it does take career stress of the mother--but that doesn't mean the entire process was somehow rational. If it were rational, then a more equal number of men and women would stay at home in support of the working spouse.

Please stop interpreting any commentary about structural inequality as victim blaming or attacking SAHM. You can really enjoy your life and be satisfied with your decisions, AND ALSO see that the system is rigged against mothers.

What about the men who would love to put less of a focus on their careers and let the wife step up, but feel that society would look less upon them if they weren't the primary/equal breadwinners? I've known SAHDs, and it's not an easy position for them, even in more progressive communities. One of my friends used to say he was a freelancer (not true) just because he felt other couples looked down on him. You could look at this economic system and see sexism in both directions. You are viewing the person with the rising career as the fortunate one, but the one staying at home with the kids could also be seen that way.

These are decisions that should be made by the couple, with respect for each spouse's desires taken into account, and we should trust that women are capable of making their own family decisions with their spouses without condescendingly accusing them of "rationalizing" their educated choices.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I never thought I'd want to stay home with my kids either, op. I don't quite understand the first response to you, it seemed nasty. First, you have control over how it goes emotionally. First, you need things you can do and want to do with your kids. For us that required moving to a different house to a neighborhood with lots of kids and a neighborhood pool. The moms are great to socialize with, and it is incredibly relaxing going to the pool and seeing the same crowd. They don't know my innermost thoughts, and I don't know theirs, but I do like the consistency. The libraries are active with kids events, story times and the like, as are the local parks and nature centers. My goal is to spend as little money as possible on kids activities. We bought a house that has a central floor plan, I can hear everything that's going on without being in the same room. When I need/want quiet, I can shut my bedroom door, it is surprisingly sound-proof in there.
Join a religious group of your choosing, it is surprising how quickly your kids will like some of what they learn and the people they meet. Realize that with both groups, (and they) may not like everybody every time you and they see them, but they are a core group you can get to know. That is incredible valuable. Join a moms group, the good ones will keep you informed of events you can do during the day. Incorporate your kids into your interests, we are waiting for the Falcon Heavy to launch. Two of my kids are excited about it, and if the youngest gets up, he's joining us. Find books that you like that may be appropriate for your kids, the books get better the older they get. Tell them what you're reading and why you like it. Even my preschooler understands that romance books make me happy because people get married at the end. In other words, treat your kids like you value them. Listen to them and let them know what matters to you. Don't be afraid to tell your husband what you need. View staying at home as a career and act accordingly. Men aren't shy about asking for and getting what they need in order to do their jobs, so don't hesitate to learn from. My husband was thrilled about a new computer he got for his job. Finally, make sure your husband knows you and the kids need and want him around as much as possible. Nobody wants to be viewed as a walking wallet. Talk with him about why he travels so much and what he gets out of it. If it works for the family that's fine, just don't except it as what "has to be" if/when it becomes untennable to you or the kids. My husband seems surprised at how much he enjoys our kids. Make sure you and your kids aren't getting the butt end of your husband when he is home. All of you deserve better then that including him.

This sounds so suffocating. I would pay money to NOT join a religious group, hang out with moms at the pool, and read romance novels.

The contrast between "My husband was thrilled about a new computer he got for his job" and then "My husband seems surprised at how much he enjoys our kids" was a little jarring for me to read.

We all have different expectations of our spouses, but I get really tired of reading how women selflessly accommodate and support their husband's big important careers, and then celebrate when he does the most basic of fatherly duties, like enjoy the company of his kids.

When are we going to start calling men out for their selfish behavior? Story after story on this website emphasize that the husband cannot leave his high paying job that requires a lot of travel. Actually, if all of these moms can change their lives around to meet the needs of their children, then dads can do it too.

Yes. I agree with both of the responses here. Ugh, the original OP sounds so intolerable.

I think she sounds like a nice person who smiles a lot and enjoys spending time with her husband and children.
I imagine her as the lady at the pool in a modest swimsuit that a toddler is trying to pull down, watching and talking to her older kids, but not aggressively playing with them, and talking to the other moms and lifeguards.
When her husband shows up, he is one of those guys with a big job who thinks his wife is the most amazing person in the world for running their family and home life the way she does.
I am not saying that you have to want to be that person, but who hates that person?

Wow you are reading some dull romance novels. Look for a few stories with sexy swimsuits and lifeguard liaisons.

Seriously though--I am not here to bash SAHMs, I think that ground has been covered on DCUM. I'm just wondering why families orbit around the father's star at the expense of the other parent? Why does he not have to make any hard choices, while mothers have to agonize over their current and future job prospects, and also creating a supportive community in lieu of their husband's absence?

Why do people do this? $$$$

For a lot of men, having a sah wife frees them up to throw all their energy at work and can mean the difference between middle management and C-suite.

In other words, jobs that top out at 250-300k vs. 7 figures.

You care more about a bigger paycheck than your husband putting energy into his family. So be it.

Well first of all, my point simply was that it's a rational decision. You might not make it but it's understandable why other people do. Especially if they don't have family money to fall back on and instead have to build their net worth entirely on their own.

Secondly, in some fields, I don't think it's so simple as making a choice between money on one side and quality time on the other. My husband works in finance. As he becomes more senior in his company, he has more responsibility but he also has more flexibility. He's proven himself. He doesn't have to put so much face time in at the office anymore. He can come and go as he pleases to attend events at the kids' schools or leave early on a Friday afternoon to get a earlier flight for a vacation, etc.

This entire paradigm always perpetuates the success and support of the husband. You talk yourself into knots trying to justify or rationalize your decisions, but I'm not asking you to. It's clear that you want to stay at home--so that's great. This post is about women who don't really want to make that decision, but nevertheless find themselves struggling to achieve a work-life balance because their husband is on some trajectory to make a lot more money or travel more. HIS energy towards work simply cannot be compromised, so women become the default for giving up their own career ambitions.

I am just trying to get people to see beyond what they have already rationalized for themselves. Let's imagine a paradigm inversion, in which dads are shamed for having career ambitions, or can attend school events without having to prove himself at work first.

What you are talking about is unrealistic for families. Sorry, I should say MOST families. MOST families can't handle the stress of having two parents who both work 50-65 hour weeks and travel frequently. That's just the reality of dealing with time constraints and the needs of dependent children. Some families can make it work because they have an unusually dependable nanny or a grandma who moves in but those situations are something of a unicorn. Look at all the posts on here complaining about lacking a village.

So then couples start looking at the numbers. If one parent has to scale back, it makes sense to choose the person who will earn less. In many cases (many but not all) it is the man who is on track to earn more.

Anyway, people aren't telling her to give up work. She has choices. She can go part time, she can hire more out, she can try being a SAHM. It's not all or nothing.

Aside from that, she ASKED for people to who have been in her situation to share their stories. So that's what people have been doing. And you are attacking them for sharing their personal details, which again, is what the OP asked for.

You obviously have an agenda against SAHMs so I'm not sure what you're even doing in this post.

I have no ill will towards SAHMs. It's the patriarchy that I disdain. We've normalized the inequality in the workforce, and now it's just a fact that "the man is on track to earn more." This is what troubles me. The OP and moms like her to make some tough "choices," while her spouse doesn't have to. I wish this wasn't the norm.

Also, it's just not helpful to suggest that I'm "attacking" you. If you're looking for drama, pick up a romance novel.

That may be but realize that you're not talking to the "patriarchy" in here though. It's all women. So you're essentially blaming the victims.

The patriarchy is not simply an audience of men. It is systemic in that it normalizes inequality, especially in the workforce. Men, on average, can work extra hours and not feel societal pressure to obtain a "work-life" balance. Indeed, they are often celebrated for showing up to basic childhood events like recitals and games. Women, on average, feel more pressure in the workforce with less guarantee of promotion. They continue to do more work at home, and take on the majority of childcare duties. So, the choice to stay at home often looks "rational." Often it does take career stress of the mother--but that doesn't mean the entire process was somehow rational. If it were rational, then a more equal number of men and women would stay at home in support of the working spouse.

Please stop interpreting any commentary about structural inequality as victim blaming or attacking SAHM. You can really enjoy your life and be satisfied with your decisions, AND ALSO see that the system is rigged against mothers.

NP. I think that PP is telling you to consider the time and place for your comments. A thread about thinking about becoming a SAHM and asking other SAHMs for their experiences is probably not the best place to start railing against the patriarchy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I SAHMed leaving a well-paying but a soul sucking job. There are some things that I negotiated with DH since he was the one who was begging me to SAHM because of his career and travelling.

- I was never going back to work. I put this condition because I knew leaving my job meant that it would be very difficult to get back at the same position. I would have had to start at entry level. Having said that, I will go back to work when I want, but without any pressure to do so.

- DH was responsible entirely for retirement and college. I wanted to know how much my puny by comparison pay mattered to our finances. Evidently, not much!

- I would retain all domestic help that I had in place when I was a WOHM. This was so that I was actually spending time with the kids instead of doing chores that I never liked to do and which I knew would make me very resentful.

- I wanted financial protection - insurance, joint everything etc.

Once all of that was in place. I quit. I filled my kids days with the kind of enrichment that I wanted them to have - museums. trips, parks, arts and crafts, hobbies, sports etc. And I gave my whole family and myself a break by making sure that the outsourcing of chores was enabling all of us to have quality time with each other.

Regarding how others viewed me - I did not care. It was not as if I was unaware of the challenges of being a WOHM and being an office worker. I was not going to fall in that trap.

As far as socializing was concerned - I have my pet projects, causes, hobbies and friend circle. I also started to take a bunch of community college courses for the sheer fun of learning and of course there is volunteering in my kids schools.

This is truly a personal decision. If you hate being at home or with kids or will become anxious/depressed/isolated, please don't stay at home. Working or staying at home - neither will make or break your kids. Children from homes with both WOH or SAH parent(s) are equally successful.

This post reeks of so. Much. Privilege. Most people in the world do not have the luxury of these choices.

Yes, a privileged perspective, but useful advice as OP seems to have this choice exactly. And I would guess that both OP and the PP you quote recognize their good fortune.

[Anonymous]

Personally, I leaned out. I have a job I like that I feel contributes to society but I have hit a ceiling that I can’t get around without either going back to graduate school or making a lateral move into the business aspect of the work.
I have a great boss who doesn’t check my hours as long as I get the work done and once I leave the office I don’t think about work. Twice a week I leave at 4 pm to take the kids to activities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I never thought I'd want to stay home with my kids either, op. I don't quite understand the first response to you, it seemed nasty. First, you have control over how it goes emotionally. First, you need things you can do and want to do with your kids. For us that required moving to a different house to a neighborhood with lots of kids and a neighborhood pool. The moms are great to socialize with, and it is incredibly relaxing going to the pool and seeing the same crowd. They don't know my innermost thoughts, and I don't know theirs, but I do like the consistency. The libraries are active with kids events, story times and the like, as are the local parks and nature centers. My goal is to spend as little money as possible on kids activities. We bought a house that has a central floor plan, I can hear everything that's going on without being in the same room. When I need/want quiet, I can shut my bedroom door, it is surprisingly sound-proof in there.
Join a religious group of your choosing, it is surprising how quickly your kids will like some of what they learn and the people they meet. Realize that with both groups, (and they) may not like everybody every time you and they see them, but they are a core group you can get to know. That is incredible valuable. Join a moms group, the good ones will keep you informed of events you can do during the day. Incorporate your kids into your interests, we are waiting for the Falcon Heavy to launch. Two of my kids are excited about it, and if the youngest gets up, he's joining us. Find books that you like that may be appropriate for your kids, the books get better the older they get. Tell them what you're reading and why you like it. Even my preschooler understands that romance books make me happy because people get married at the end. In other words, treat your kids like you value them. Listen to them and let them know what matters to you. Don't be afraid to tell your husband what you need. View staying at home as a career and act accordingly. Men aren't shy about asking for and getting what they need in order to do their jobs, so don't hesitate to learn from. My husband was thrilled about a new computer he got for his job. Finally, make sure your husband knows you and the kids need and want him around as much as possible. Nobody wants to be viewed as a walking wallet. Talk with him about why he travels so much and what he gets out of it. If it works for the family that's fine, just don't except it as what "has to be" if/when it becomes untennable to you or the kids. My husband seems surprised at how much he enjoys our kids. Make sure you and your kids aren't getting the butt end of your husband when he is home. All of you deserve better then that including him.

This sounds so suffocating. I would pay money to NOT join a religious group, hang out with moms at the pool, and read romance novels.

The contrast between "My husband was thrilled about a new computer he got for his job" and then "My husband seems surprised at how much he enjoys our kids" was a little jarring for me to read.

We all have different expectations of our spouses, but I get really tired of reading how women selflessly accommodate and support their husband's big important careers, and then celebrate when he does the most basic of fatherly duties, like enjoy the company of his kids.

When are we going to start calling men out for their selfish behavior? Story after story on this website emphasize that the husband cannot leave his high paying job that requires a lot of travel. Actually, if all of these moms can change their lives around to meet the needs of their children, then dads can do it too.

Yes. I agree with both of the responses here. Ugh, the original OP sounds so intolerable.

I think she sounds like a nice person who smiles a lot and enjoys spending time with her husband and children.
I imagine her as the lady at the pool in a modest swimsuit that a toddler is trying to pull down, watching and talking to her older kids, but not aggressively playing with them, and talking to the other moms and lifeguards.
When her husband shows up, he is one of those guys with a big job who thinks his wife is the most amazing person in the world for running their family and home life the way she does.
I am not saying that you have to want to be that person, but who hates that person?

“Who thinks his wife is the most amazing person in the world, because...”

This right here. The golden handcuffs of patriarchy.
I’m not buying that any husband with a SAHW really thinks that. For one, if he thought it was that amazing work he’d want to do it himself, not just watch from the sidelines. Moreover I don’t see men with big jobs lionizing service people such as nannies, housekeepers, cleaning women, maids, cooks, etc. They have their secretaries and cleaning people and cafeteria workers at the office and I have never seen any man with a big job stop to reflect on the countless women who make it possible for him to sit at the top. Come on...isn’t it just the height of self-deception to idealize this to such a degree?

The men I know who really think it is important work make time to do it. And I also know a fair amount of men who respect their wives for kicking ass at work and being great mothers, though I wouldn’t go so far as to say “most amazing person in the world.” That’s a line Hallmark made up so women would feel less shitty for doing all the repetitive, unpaid, unrecognized work of raising a family and running a house.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I never thought I'd want to stay home with my kids either, op. I don't quite understand the first response to you, it seemed nasty. First, you have control over how it goes emotionally. First, you need things you can do and want to do with your kids. For us that required moving to a different house to a neighborhood with lots of kids and a neighborhood pool. The moms are great to socialize with, and it is incredibly relaxing going to the pool and seeing the same crowd. They don't know my innermost thoughts, and I don't know theirs, but I do like the consistency. The libraries are active with kids events, story times and the like, as are the local parks and nature centers. My goal is to spend as little money as possible on kids activities. We bought a house that has a central floor plan, I can hear everything that's going on without being in the same room. When I need/want quiet, I can shut my bedroom door, it is surprisingly sound-proof in there.
Join a religious group of your choosing, it is surprising how quickly your kids will like some of what they learn and the people they meet. Realize that with both groups, (and they) may not like everybody every time you and they see them, but they are a core group you can get to know. That is incredible valuable. Join a moms group, the good ones will keep you informed of events you can do during the day. Incorporate your kids into your interests, we are waiting for the Falcon Heavy to launch. Two of my kids are excited about it, and if the youngest gets up, he's joining us. Find books that you like that may be appropriate for your kids, the books get better the older they get. Tell them what you're reading and why you like it. Even my preschooler understands that romance books make me happy because people get married at the end. In other words, treat your kids like you value them. Listen to them and let them know what matters to you. Don't be afraid to tell your husband what you need. View staying at home as a career and act accordingly. Men aren't shy about asking for and getting what they need in order to do their jobs, so don't hesitate to learn from. My husband was thrilled about a new computer he got for his job. Finally, make sure your husband knows you and the kids need and want him around as much as possible. Nobody wants to be viewed as a walking wallet. Talk with him about why he travels so much and what he gets out of it. If it works for the family that's fine, just don't except it as what "has to be" if/when it becomes untennable to you or the kids. My husband seems surprised at how much he enjoys our kids. Make sure you and your kids aren't getting the butt end of your husband when he is home. All of you deserve better then that including him.

This sounds so suffocating. I would pay money to NOT join a religious group, hang out with moms at the pool, and read romance novels.

The contrast between "My husband was thrilled about a new computer he got for his job" and then "My husband seems surprised at how much he enjoys our kids" was a little jarring for me to read.

We all have different expectations of our spouses, but I get really tired of reading how women selflessly accommodate and support their husband's big important careers, and then celebrate when he does the most basic of fatherly duties, like enjoy the company of his kids.

When are we going to start calling men out for their selfish behavior? Story after story on this website emphasize that the husband cannot leave his high paying job that requires a lot of travel. Actually, if all of these moms can change their lives around to meet the needs of their children, then dads can do it too.

Yes. I agree with both of the responses here. Ugh, the original OP sounds so intolerable.

I think she sounds like a nice person who smiles a lot and enjoys spending time with her husband and children.
I imagine her as the lady at the pool in a modest swimsuit that a toddler is trying to pull down, watching and talking to her older kids, but not aggressively playing with them, and talking to the other moms and lifeguards.
When her husband shows up, he is one of those guys with a big job who thinks his wife is the most amazing person in the world for running their family and home life the way she does.
I am not saying that you have to want to be that person, but who hates that person?

Wow you are reading some dull romance novels. Look for a few stories with sexy swimsuits and lifeguard liaisons.

Seriously though--I am not here to bash SAHMs, I think that ground has been covered on DCUM. I'm just wondering why families orbit around the father's star at the expense of the other parent? Why does he not have to make any hard choices, while mothers have to agonize over their current and future job prospects, and also creating a supportive community in lieu of their husband's absence?

Why do people do this? $$$$

For a lot of men, having a sah wife frees them up to throw all their energy at work and can mean the difference between middle management and C-suite.

In other words, jobs that top out at 250-300k vs. 7 figures.

You care more about a bigger paycheck than your husband putting energy into his family. So be it.

Well first of all, my point simply was that it's a rational decision. You might not make it but it's understandable why other people do. Especially if they don't have family money to fall back on and instead have to build their net worth entirely on their own.

Secondly, in some fields, I don't think it's so simple as making a choice between money on one side and quality time on the other. My husband works in finance. As he becomes more senior in his company, he has more responsibility but he also has more flexibility. He's proven himself. He doesn't have to put so much face time in at the office anymore. He can come and go as he pleases to attend events at the kids' schools or leave early on a Friday afternoon to get a earlier flight for a vacation, etc.

This entire paradigm always perpetuates the success and support of the husband. You talk yourself into knots trying to justify or rationalize your decisions, but I'm not asking you to. It's clear that you want to stay at home--so that's great. This post is about women who don't really want to make that decision, but nevertheless find themselves struggling to achieve a work-life balance because their husband is on some trajectory to make a lot more money or travel more. HIS energy towards work simply cannot be compromised, so women become the default for giving up their own career ambitions.

I am just trying to get people to see beyond what they have already rationalized for themselves. Let's imagine a paradigm inversion, in which dads are shamed for having career ambitions, or can attend school events without having to prove himself at work first.

What you are talking about is unrealistic for families. Sorry, I should say MOST families. MOST families can't handle the stress of having two parents who both work 50-65 hour weeks and travel frequently. That's just the reality of dealing with time constraints and the needs of dependent children. Some families can make it work because they have an unusually dependable nanny or a grandma who moves in but those situations are something of a unicorn. Look at all the posts on here complaining about lacking a village.

So then couples start looking at the numbers. If one parent has to scale back, it makes sense to choose the person who will earn less. In many cases (many but not all) it is the man who is on track to earn more.

Anyway, people aren't telling her to give up work. She has choices. She can go part time, she can hire more out, she can try being a SAHM. It's not all or nothing.

Aside from that, she ASKED for people to who have been in her situation to share their stories. So that's what people have been doing. And you are attacking them for sharing their personal details, which again, is what the OP asked for.

You obviously have an agenda against SAHMs so I'm not sure what you're even doing in this post.

I have no ill will towards SAHMs. It's the patriarchy that I disdain. We've normalized the inequality in the workforce, and now it's just a fact that "the man is on track to earn more." This is what troubles me. The OP and moms like her to make some tough "choices," while her spouse doesn't have to. I wish this wasn't the norm.

Also, it's just not helpful to suggest that I'm "attacking" you. If you're looking for drama, pick up a romance novel.

That may be but realize that you're not talking to the "patriarchy" in here though. It's all women. So you're essentially blaming the victims.

The patriarchy is not simply an audience of men. It is systemic in that it normalizes inequality, especially in the workforce. Men, on average, can work extra hours and not feel societal pressure to obtain a "work-life" balance. Indeed, they are often celebrated for showing up to basic childhood events like recitals and games. Women, on average, feel more pressure in the workforce with less guarantee of promotion. They continue to do more work at home, and take on the majority of childcare duties. So, the choice to stay at home often looks "rational." Often it does take career stress of the mother--but that doesn't mean the entire process was somehow rational. If it were rational, then a more equal number of men and women would stay at home in support of the working spouse.

Please stop interpreting any commentary about structural inequality as victim blaming or attacking SAHM. You can really enjoy your life and be satisfied with your decisions, AND ALSO see that the system is rigged against mothers.

What about the men who would love to put less of a focus on their careers and let the wife step up, but feel that society would look less upon them if they weren't the primary/equal breadwinners? I've known SAHDs, and it's not an easy position for them, even in more progressive communities. One of my friends used to say he was a freelancer (not true) just because he felt other couples looked down on him. You could look at this economic system and see sexism in both directions. You are viewing the person with the rising career as the fortunate one, but the one staying at home with the kids could also be seen that way.

These are decisions that should be made by the couple, with respect for each spouse's desires taken into account, and we should trust that women are capable of making their own family decisions with their spouses without condescendingly accusing them of "rationalizing" their educated choices.

We're not really disagreeing here. Dismantling the patriarchy would include supporting men who stay at home or not rewarding them for being selfish workaholics. Then, families really can make decisions that suit their personalities and preferences.

I do not view any person with the rising career as more fortunate, or anyone staying at home as less fortunate. The reality is that men are more likely to get promotions and less likely to feel guilty about working long hours. Women getting "mommy tracked" is a real issue. That treatment of women is condescending, not my criticism of it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you can afford it, do it. Then down the road if you feel like your life is starting to lack purpose, find it outside the home (probably not in work). I can't imagine most of the posters on DCUM can honestly say they find their life's purpose in their job. If they do, then whomever they're making rich really did a number brainwashing them into submission. For most people, even highly educated people, a job pays the bills (both today's and retirement's).

I absolutely find my life's purpose in my work. I am President of a small mission driven non profit. I don't make much money by DC standards but wouldn't leave my job for any amount of money.

+1. I do philosophy — ethics, moral psychology, intellectual history. I find a lot of fulfillment in family and adore my kids. But I also love reading, writing, teaching, expanding my mind, and working to pass on a tradition of thought that I believe will make my children’s world and society richer over time. I think when you are a parent your kids need all of you, and this is a part of my life’s purpose that lets me bring more to my relationship with them. My work experience has also made me a better parent — better at negotiating, better at teaching, better at prioritizing and long-range planning. I wouldn’t say those skills are part of my “life’s purpose,” necessarily, but I think the dichotomy between work and parenting is too simplistic in a lot of these posts.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I never thought I'd want to stay home with my kids either, op. I don't quite understand the first response to you, it seemed nasty. First, you have control over how it goes emotionally. First, you need things you can do and want to do with your kids. For us that required moving to a different house to a neighborhood with lots of kids and a neighborhood pool. The moms are great to socialize with, and it is incredibly relaxing going to the pool and seeing the same crowd. They don't know my innermost thoughts, and I don't know theirs, but I do like the consistency. The libraries are active with kids events, story times and the like, as are the local parks and nature centers. My goal is to spend as little money as possible on kids activities. We bought a house that has a central floor plan, I can hear everything that's going on without being in the same room. When I need/want quiet, I can shut my bedroom door, it is surprisingly sound-proof in there.
Join a religious group of your choosing, it is surprising how quickly your kids will like some of what they learn and the people they meet. Realize that with both groups, (and they) may not like everybody every time you and they see them, but they are a core group you can get to know. That is incredible valuable. Join a moms group, the good ones will keep you informed of events you can do during the day. Incorporate your kids into your interests, we are waiting for the Falcon Heavy to launch. Two of my kids are excited about it, and if the youngest gets up, he's joining us. Find books that you like that may be appropriate for your kids, the books get better the older they get. Tell them what you're reading and why you like it. Even my preschooler understands that romance books make me happy because people get married at the end. In other words, treat your kids like you value them. Listen to them and let them know what matters to you. Don't be afraid to tell your husband what you need. View staying at home as a career and act accordingly. Men aren't shy about asking for and getting what they need in order to do their jobs, so don't hesitate to learn from. My husband was thrilled about a new computer he got for his job. Finally, make sure your husband knows you and the kids need and want him around as much as possible. Nobody wants to be viewed as a walking wallet. Talk with him about why he travels so much and what he gets out of it. If it works for the family that's fine, just don't except it as what "has to be" if/when it becomes untennable to you or the kids. My husband seems surprised at how much he enjoys our kids. Make sure you and your kids aren't getting the butt end of your husband when he is home. All of you deserve better then that including him.

This sounds so suffocating. I would pay money to NOT join a religious group, hang out with moms at the pool, and read romance novels.

The contrast between "My husband was thrilled about a new computer he got for his job" and then "My husband seems surprised at how much he enjoys our kids" was a little jarring for me to read.

We all have different expectations of our spouses, but I get really tired of reading how women selflessly accommodate and support their husband's big important careers, and then celebrate when he does the most basic of fatherly duties, like enjoy the company of his kids.

When are we going to start calling men out for their selfish behavior? Story after story on this website emphasize that the husband cannot leave his high paying job that requires a lot of travel. Actually, if all of these moms can change their lives around to meet the needs of their children, then dads can do it too.

Yes. I agree with both of the responses here. Ugh, the original OP sounds so intolerable.

I think she sounds like a nice person who smiles a lot and enjoys spending time with her husband and children.
I imagine her as the lady at the pool in a modest swimsuit that a toddler is trying to pull down, watching and talking to her older kids, but not aggressively playing with them, and talking to the other moms and lifeguards.
When her husband shows up, he is one of those guys with a big job who thinks his wife is the most amazing person in the world for running their family and home life the way she does.
I am not saying that you have to want to be that person, but who hates that person?

Wow you are reading some dull romance novels. Look for a few stories with sexy swimsuits and lifeguard liaisons.

Seriously though--I am not here to bash SAHMs, I think that ground has been covered on DCUM. I'm just wondering why families orbit around the father's star at the expense of the other parent? Why does he not have to make any hard choices, while mothers have to agonize over their current and future job prospects, and also creating a supportive community in lieu of their husband's absence?

Why do people do this? $$$$

For a lot of men, having a sah wife frees them up to throw all their energy at work and can mean the difference between middle management and C-suite.

In other words, jobs that top out at 250-300k vs. 7 figures.

You care more about a bigger paycheck than your husband putting energy into his family. So be it.

Well first of all, my point simply was that it's a rational decision. You might not make it but it's understandable why other people do. Especially if they don't have family money to fall back on and instead have to build their net worth entirely on their own.

Secondly, in some fields, I don't think it's so simple as making a choice between money on one side and quality time on the other. My husband works in finance. As he becomes more senior in his company, he has more responsibility but he also has more flexibility. He's proven himself. He doesn't have to put so much face time in at the office anymore. He can come and go as he pleases to attend events at the kids' schools or leave early on a Friday afternoon to get a earlier flight for a vacation, etc.

This entire paradigm always perpetuates the success and support of the husband. You talk yourself into knots trying to justify or rationalize your decisions, but I'm not asking you to. It's clear that you want to stay at home--so that's great. This post is about women who don't really want to make that decision, but nevertheless find themselves struggling to achieve a work-life balance because their husband is on some trajectory to make a lot more money or travel more. HIS energy towards work simply cannot be compromised, so women become the default for giving up their own career ambitions.

I am just trying to get people to see beyond what they have already rationalized for themselves. Let's imagine a paradigm inversion, in which dads are shamed for having career ambitions, or can attend school events without having to prove himself at work first.

What you are talking about is unrealistic for families. Sorry, I should say MOST families. MOST families can't handle the stress of having two parents who both work 50-65 hour weeks and travel frequently. That's just the reality of dealing with time constraints and the needs of dependent children. Some families can make it work because they have an unusually dependable nanny or a grandma who moves in but those situations are something of a unicorn. Look at all the posts on here complaining about lacking a village.

So then couples start looking at the numbers. If one parent has to scale back, it makes sense to choose the person who will earn less. In many cases (many but not all) it is the man who is on track to earn more.

Anyway, people aren't telling her to give up work. She has choices. She can go part time, she can hire more out, she can try being a SAHM. It's not all or nothing.

Aside from that, she ASKED for people to who have been in her situation to share their stories. So that's what people have been doing. And you are attacking them for sharing their personal details, which again, is what the OP asked for.

You obviously have an agenda against SAHMs so I'm not sure what you're even doing in this post.

I have no ill will towards SAHMs. It's the patriarchy that I disdain. We've normalized the inequality in the workforce, and now it's just a fact that "the man is on track to earn more." This is what troubles me. The OP and moms like her to make some tough "choices," while her spouse doesn't have to. I wish this wasn't the norm.

Also, it's just not helpful to suggest that I'm "attacking" you. If you're looking for drama, pick up a romance novel.

That may be but realize that you're not talking to the "patriarchy" in here though. It's all women. So you're essentially blaming the victims.

The patriarchy is not simply an audience of men. It is systemic in that it normalizes inequality, especially in the workforce. Men, on average, can work extra hours and not feel societal pressure to obtain a "work-life" balance. Indeed, they are often celebrated for showing up to basic childhood events like recitals and games. Women, on average, feel more pressure in the workforce with less guarantee of promotion. They continue to do more work at home, and take on the majority of childcare duties. So, the choice to stay at home often looks "rational." Often it does take career stress of the mother--but that doesn't mean the entire process was somehow rational. If it were rational, then a more equal number of men and women would stay at home in support of the working spouse.

Please stop interpreting any commentary about structural inequality as victim blaming or attacking SAHM. You can really enjoy your life and be satisfied with your decisions, AND ALSO see that the system is rigged against mothers.

What about the men who would love to put less of a focus on their careers and let the wife step up, but feel that society would look less upon them if they weren't the primary/equal breadwinners? I've known SAHDs, and it's not an easy position for them, even in more progressive communities. One of my friends used to say he was a freelancer (not true) just because he felt other couples looked down on him. You could look at this economic system and see sexism in both directions. You are viewing the person with the rising career as the fortunate one, but the one staying at home with the kids could also be seen that way.

These are decisions that should be made by the couple, with respect for each spouse's desires taken into account, and we should trust that women are capable of making their own family decisions with their spouses without condescendingly accusing them of "rationalizing" their educated choices.

We're not really disagreeing here. Dismantling the patriarchy would include supporting men who stay at home or not rewarding them for being selfish workaholics. Then, families really can make decisions that suit their personalities and preferences.

I do not view any person with the rising career as more fortunate, or anyone staying at home as less fortunate. The reality is that men are more likely to get promotions and less likely to feel guilty about working long hours. Women getting "mommy tracked" is a real issue. That treatment of women is condescending, not my criticism of it.

No, comments like "I'm trying to get women to see beyond what they have already rationalized to themselves," and putting "choices" in quotation marks as if a woman is unable to truly make independent, thoughtful and careful decisions - about what works best for herself, spouse and family - suggest a condescension towards women who make different choices than you.

By the way, that same sexism you decry has a lot to say about the "selfishness" of WOMEN who are "workaholics", none of it positive. No one, male or female, should be "shamed for having career ambitions."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I never thought I'd want to stay home with my kids either, op. I don't quite understand the first response to you, it seemed nasty. First, you have control over how it goes emotionally. First, you need things you can do and want to do with your kids. For us that required moving to a different house to a neighborhood with lots of kids and a neighborhood pool. The moms are great to socialize with, and it is incredibly relaxing going to the pool and seeing the same crowd. They don't know my innermost thoughts, and I don't know theirs, but I do like the consistency. The libraries are active with kids events, story times and the like, as are the local parks and nature centers. My goal is to spend as little money as possible on kids activities. We bought a house that has a central floor plan, I can hear everything that's going on without being in the same room. When I need/want quiet, I can shut my bedroom door, it is surprisingly sound-proof in there.
Join a religious group of your choosing, it is surprising how quickly your kids will like some of what they learn and the people they meet. Realize that with both groups, (and they) may not like everybody every time you and they see them, but they are a core group you can get to know. That is incredible valuable. Join a moms group, the good ones will keep you informed of events you can do during the day. Incorporate your kids into your interests, we are waiting for the Falcon Heavy to launch. Two of my kids are excited about it, and if the youngest gets up, he's joining us. Find books that you like that may be appropriate for your kids, the books get better the older they get. Tell them what you're reading and why you like it. Even my preschooler understands that romance books make me happy because people get married at the end. In other words, treat your kids like you value them. Listen to them and let them know what matters to you. Don't be afraid to tell your husband what you need. View staying at home as a career and act accordingly. Men aren't shy about asking for and getting what they need in order to do their jobs, so don't hesitate to learn from. My husband was thrilled about a new computer he got for his job. Finally, make sure your husband knows you and the kids need and want him around as much as possible. Nobody wants to be viewed as a walking wallet. Talk with him about why he travels so much and what he gets out of it. If it works for the family that's fine, just don't except it as what "has to be" if/when it becomes untennable to you or the kids. My husband seems surprised at how much he enjoys our kids. Make sure you and your kids aren't getting the butt end of your husband when he is home. All of you deserve better then that including him.

This sounds so suffocating. I would pay money to NOT join a religious group, hang out with moms at the pool, and read romance novels.

The contrast between "My husband was thrilled about a new computer he got for his job" and then "My husband seems surprised at how much he enjoys our kids" was a little jarring for me to read.

We all have different expectations of our spouses, but I get really tired of reading how women selflessly accommodate and support their husband's big important careers, and then celebrate when he does the most basic of fatherly duties, like enjoy the company of his kids.

When are we going to start calling men out for their selfish behavior? Story after story on this website emphasize that the husband cannot leave his high paying job that requires a lot of travel. Actually, if all of these moms can change their lives around to meet the needs of their children, then dads can do it too.

Yes. I agree with both of the responses here. Ugh, the original OP sounds so intolerable.

I think she sounds like a nice person who smiles a lot and enjoys spending time with her husband and children.
I imagine her as the lady at the pool in a modest swimsuit that a toddler is trying to pull down, watching and talking to her older kids, but not aggressively playing with them, and talking to the other moms and lifeguards.
When her husband shows up, he is one of those guys with a big job who thinks his wife is the most amazing person in the world for running their family and home life the way she does.
I am not saying that you have to want to be that person, but who hates that person?

Wow you are reading some dull romance novels. Look for a few stories with sexy swimsuits and lifeguard liaisons.

Seriously though--I am not here to bash SAHMs, I think that ground has been covered on DCUM. I'm just wondering why families orbit around the father's star at the expense of the other parent? Why does he not have to make any hard choices, while mothers have to agonize over their current and future job prospects, and also creating a supportive community in lieu of their husband's absence?

Why do people do this? $$$$

For a lot of men, having a sah wife frees them up to throw all their energy at work and can mean the difference between middle management and C-suite.

In other words, jobs that top out at 250-300k vs. 7 figures.

You care more about a bigger paycheck than your husband putting energy into his family. So be it.

Well first of all, my point simply was that it's a rational decision. You might not make it but it's understandable why other people do. Especially if they don't have family money to fall back on and instead have to build their net worth entirely on their own.

Secondly, in some fields, I don't think it's so simple as making a choice between money on one side and quality time on the other. My husband works in finance. As he becomes more senior in his company, he has more responsibility but he also has more flexibility. He's proven himself. He doesn't have to put so much face time in at the office anymore. He can come and go as he pleases to attend events at the kids' schools or leave early on a Friday afternoon to get a earlier flight for a vacation, etc.

This entire paradigm always perpetuates the success and support of the husband. You talk yourself into knots trying to justify or rationalize your decisions, but I'm not asking you to. It's clear that you want to stay at home--so that's great. This post is about women who don't really want to make that decision, but nevertheless find themselves struggling to achieve a work-life balance because their husband is on some trajectory to make a lot more money or travel more. HIS energy towards work simply cannot be compromised, so women become the default for giving up their own career ambitions.

I am just trying to get people to see beyond what they have already rationalized for themselves. Let's imagine a paradigm inversion, in which dads are shamed for having career ambitions, or can attend school events without having to prove himself at work first.

What you are talking about is unrealistic for families. Sorry, I should say MOST families. MOST families can't handle the stress of having two parents who both work 50-65 hour weeks and travel frequently. That's just the reality of dealing with time constraints and the needs of dependent children. Some families can make it work because they have an unusually dependable nanny or a grandma who moves in but those situations are something of a unicorn. Look at all the posts on here complaining about lacking a village.

So then couples start looking at the numbers. If one parent has to scale back, it makes sense to choose the person who will earn less. In many cases (many but not all) it is the man who is on track to earn more.

Anyway, people aren't telling her to give up work. She has choices. She can go part time, she can hire more out, she can try being a SAHM. It's not all or nothing.

Aside from that, she ASKED for people to who have been in her situation to share their stories. So that's what people have been doing. And you are attacking them for sharing their personal details, which again, is what the OP asked for.

You obviously have an agenda against SAHMs so I'm not sure what you're even doing in this post.

I have no ill will towards SAHMs. It's the patriarchy that I disdain. We've normalized the inequality in the workforce, and now it's just a fact that "the man is on track to earn more." This is what troubles me. The OP and moms like her to make some tough "choices," while her spouse doesn't have to. I wish this wasn't the norm.

Also, it's just not helpful to suggest that I'm "attacking" you. If you're looking for drama, pick up a romance novel.

That may be but realize that you're not talking to the "patriarchy" in here though. It's all women. So you're essentially blaming the victims.

The patriarchy is not simply an audience of men. It is systemic in that it normalizes inequality, especially in the workforce. Men, on average, can work extra hours and not feel societal pressure to obtain a "work-life" balance. Indeed, they are often celebrated for showing up to basic childhood events like recitals and games. Women, on average, feel more pressure in the workforce with less guarantee of promotion. They continue to do more work at home, and take on the majority of childcare duties. So, the choice to stay at home often looks "rational." Often it does take career stress of the mother--but that doesn't mean the entire process was somehow rational. If it were rational, then a more equal number of men and women would stay at home in support of the working spouse.

Please stop interpreting any commentary about structural inequality as victim blaming or attacking SAHM. You can really enjoy your life and be satisfied with your decisions, AND ALSO see that the system is rigged against mothers.

What about the men who would love to put less of a focus on their careers and let the wife step up, but feel that society would look less upon them if they weren't the primary/equal breadwinners? I've known SAHDs, and it's not an easy position for them, even in more progressive communities. One of my friends used to say he was a freelancer (not true) just because he felt other couples looked down on him. You could look at this economic system and see sexism in both directions. You are viewing the person with the rising career as the fortunate one, but the one staying at home with the kids could also be seen that way.

These are decisions that should be made by the couple, with respect for each spouse's desires taken into account, and we should trust that women are capable of making their own family decisions with their spouses without condescendingly accusing them of "rationalizing" their educated choices.

We're not really disagreeing here. Dismantling the patriarchy would include supporting men who stay at home or not rewarding them for being selfish workaholics. Then, families really can make decisions that suit their personalities and preferences.

I do not view any person with the rising career as more fortunate, or anyone staying at home as less fortunate. The reality is that men are more likely to get promotions and less likely to feel guilty about working long hours. Women getting "mommy tracked" is a real issue. That treatment of women is condescending, not my criticism of it.

No, comments like "I'm trying to get women to see beyond what they have already rationalized to themselves," and putting "choices" in quotation marks as if a woman is unable to truly make independent, thoughtful and careful decisions - about what works best for herself, spouse and family - suggest a condescension towards women who make different choices than you.

By the way, that same sexism you decry has a lot to say about the "selfishness" of WOMEN who are "workaholics", none of it positive. No one, male or female, should be "shamed for having career ambitions."

False dichotomy. Every choice is made within a matrix of costs, benefits, and trade offs. An ideology of personal choice that ignores the structures and policies within which choices are made is not empowering to women. It may be a personal choice for a woman to go along with a sexual assault and even marry the guy rather than succumbing to further harassment, life as a disgraced spinster, or an honor killing. But that doesn’t mean we don’t need sexual assault laws and laws that protect women from such social practices. It is a less extreme situation but just because a woman may choose to stay home and engage in unpaid childcare and domestic work doesn’t mean that we should not seriously examine the incentives and barriers which condition such a choice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I SAHMed leaving a well-paying but a soul sucking job. There are some things that I negotiated with DH since he was the one who was begging me to SAHM because of his career and travelling.

...

This is truly a personal decision. If you hate being at home or with kids or will become anxious/depressed/isolated, please don't stay at home. Working or staying at home - neither will make or break your kids. Children from homes with both WOH or SAH parent(s) are equally successful.

This post reeks of so. Much. Privilege. Most people in the world do not have the luxury of these choices.

Many people in DC, the US, and the world do not have the luxury of deciding IF they should work at all so the entire subject is for the privileged, if you're looking for something to get worked up about.

Truth. I would have loved to have been a SAHM when my kids were small.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I SAHMed leaving a well-paying but a soul sucking job. There are some things that I negotiated with DH since he was the one who was begging me to SAHM because of his career and travelling.

- I was never going back to work. I put this condition because I knew leaving my job meant that it would be very difficult to get back at the same position. I would have had to start at entry level. Having said that, I will go back to work when I want, but without any pressure to do so.

- DH was responsible entirely for retirement and college. I wanted to know how much my puny by comparison pay mattered to our finances. Evidently, not much!

- I would retain all domestic help that I had in place when I was a WOHM. This was so that I was actually spending time with the kids instead of doing chores that I never liked to do and which I knew would make me very resentful.

- I wanted financial protection - insurance, joint everything etc.

Once all of that was in place. I quit. I filled my kids days with the kind of enrichment that I wanted them to have - museums. trips, parks, arts and crafts, hobbies, sports etc. And I gave my whole family and myself a break by making sure that the outsourcing of chores was enabling all of us to have quality time with each other.

Regarding how others viewed me - I did not care. It was not as if I was unaware of the challenges of being a WOHM and being an office worker. I was not going to fall in that trap.

As far as socializing was concerned - I have my pet projects, causes, hobbies and friend circle. I also started to take a bunch of community college courses for the sheer fun of learning and of course there is volunteering in my kids schools.

This is truly a personal decision. If you hate being at home or with kids or will become anxious/depressed/isolated, please don't stay at home. Working or staying at home - neither will make or break your kids. Children from homes with both WOH or SAH parent(s) are equally successful.

Did you do a post-nup? It sounds like you’re protected in case he dies, but holding everything jointly doesn’t help you much if he divorces you. I know four people who just in the past six months had their husbands up and leave without notice after their wives had been home 10+ years. The spousal support agreements they’re negotiating are good for the next 8-10 years, but only for living on and not enough to save toward retirement or anything. Now they’re scrambling to find jobs and frustrated that they’re in such shitty financial positions long-term.

Wow, that stinks. Are they due to affairs?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I never thought I’d want to sah - and I still don’t really but with dh’s demanding / much higher paying job it’s made working at anything interesting and meaningful career wise very stressful to be both primary parent to baby and toddler and a good employee. Dh won’t change his high travel / high pay path so I’m debating what to do. I want my kids to have a stable and loving childhood and will not sacrifice that to pursue my own career ambitions. If you never thought you’d sah but ended up doing it, how did it go emotionally?

OP, this right here is a problem. Regardless of whatever path you choose, the fact that your husband won't make a change and is therefore putting this all on your is not ok. If you keep working, you'll end up stressed and worn out. If you quit, who says he'll respect anything you do? You can consider how you'd feel about staying home or not, but the real thing you need to address is the fact that you and your husband are not on the same page.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I never thought I'd want to stay home with my kids either, op. I don't quite understand the first response to you, it seemed nasty. First, you have control over how it goes emotionally. First, you need things you can do and want to do with your kids. For us that required moving to a different house to a neighborhood with lots of kids and a neighborhood pool. The moms are great to socialize with, and it is incredibly relaxing going to the pool and seeing the same crowd. They don't know my innermost thoughts, and I don't know theirs, but I do like the consistency. The libraries are active with kids events, story times and the like, as are the local parks and nature centers. My goal is to spend as little money as possible on kids activities. We bought a house that has a central floor plan, I can hear everything that's going on without being in the same room. When I need/want quiet, I can shut my bedroom door, it is surprisingly sound-proof in there.
Join a religious group of your choosing, it is surprising how quickly your kids will like some of what they learn and the people they meet. Realize that with both groups, (and they) may not like everybody every time you and they see them, but they are a core group you can get to know. That is incredible valuable. Join a moms group, the good ones will keep you informed of events you can do during the day. Incorporate your kids into your interests, we are waiting for the Falcon Heavy to launch. Two of my kids are excited about it, and if the youngest gets up, he's joining us. Find books that you like that may be appropriate for your kids, the books get better the older they get. Tell them what you're reading and why you like it. Even my preschooler understands that romance books make me happy because people get married at the end. In other words, treat your kids like you value them. Listen to them and let them know what matters to you. Don't be afraid to tell your husband what you need. View staying at home as a career and act accordingly. Men aren't shy about asking for and getting what they need in order to do their jobs, so don't hesitate to learn from. My husband was thrilled about a new computer he got for his job. Finally, make sure your husband knows you and the kids need and want him around as much as possible. Nobody wants to be viewed as a walking wallet. Talk with him about why he travels so much and what he gets out of it. If it works for the family that's fine, just don't except it as what "has to be" if/when it becomes untennable to you or the kids. My husband seems surprised at how much he enjoys our kids. Make sure you and your kids aren't getting the butt end of your husband when he is home. All of you deserve better then that including him.

This sounds so suffocating. I would pay money to NOT join a religious group, hang out with moms at the pool, and read romance novels.

The contrast between "My husband was thrilled about a new computer he got for his job" and then "My husband seems surprised at how much he enjoys our kids" was a little jarring for me to read.

We all have different expectations of our spouses, but I get really tired of reading how women selflessly accommodate and support their husband's big important careers, and then celebrate when he does the most basic of fatherly duties, like enjoy the company of his kids.

When are we going to start calling men out for their selfish behavior? Story after story on this website emphasize that the husband cannot leave his high paying job that requires a lot of travel. Actually, if all of these moms can change their lives around to meet the needs of their children, then dads can do it too.

Yes. I agree with both of the responses here. Ugh, the original OP sounds so intolerable.

I think she sounds like a nice person who smiles a lot and enjoys spending time with her husband and children.
I imagine her as the lady at the pool in a modest swimsuit that a toddler is trying to pull down, watching and talking to her older kids, but not aggressively playing with them, and talking to the other moms and lifeguards.
When her husband shows up, he is one of those guys with a big job who thinks his wife is the most amazing person in the world for running their family and home life the way she does.
I am not saying that you have to want to be that person, but who hates that person?

Wow you are reading some dull romance novels. Look for a few stories with sexy swimsuits and lifeguard liaisons.

Seriously though--I am not here to bash SAHMs, I think that ground has been covered on DCUM. I'm just wondering why families orbit around the father's star at the expense of the other parent? Why does he not have to make any hard choices, while mothers have to agonize over their current and future job prospects, and also creating a supportive community in lieu of their husband's absence?

Why do people do this? $$$$

For a lot of men, having a sah wife frees them up to throw all their energy at work and can mean the difference between middle management and C-suite.

In other words, jobs that top out at 250-300k vs. 7 figures.

You care more about a bigger paycheck than your husband putting energy into his family. So be it.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I never thought I'd want to stay home with my kids either, op. I don't quite understand the first response to you, it seemed nasty. First, you have control over how it goes emotionally. First, you need things you can do and want to do with your kids. For us that required moving to a different house to a neighborhood with lots of kids and a neighborhood pool. The moms are great to socialize with, and it is incredibly relaxing going to the pool and seeing the same crowd. They don't know my innermost thoughts, and I don't know theirs, but I do like the consistency. The libraries are active with kids events, story times and the like, as are the local parks and nature centers. My goal is to spend as little money as possible on kids activities. We bought a house that has a central floor plan, I can hear everything that's going on without being in the same room. When I need/want quiet, I can shut my bedroom door, it is surprisingly sound-proof in there.
Join a religious group of your choosing, it is surprising how quickly your kids will like some of what they learn and the people they meet. Realize that with both groups, (and they) may not like everybody every time you and they see them, but they are a core group you can get to know. That is incredible valuable. Join a moms group, the good ones will keep you informed of events you can do during the day. Incorporate your kids into your interests, we are waiting for the Falcon Heavy to launch. Two of my kids are excited about it, and if the youngest gets up, he's joining us. Find books that you like that may be appropriate for your kids, the books get better the older they get. Tell them what you're reading and why you like it. Even my preschooler understands that romance books make me happy because people get married at the end. In other words, treat your kids like you value them. Listen to them and let them know what matters to you. Don't be afraid to tell your husband what you need. View staying at home as a career and act accordingly. Men aren't shy about asking for and getting what they need in order to do their jobs, so don't hesitate to learn from. My husband was thrilled about a new computer he got for his job. Finally, make sure your husband knows you and the kids need and want him around as much as possible. Nobody wants to be viewed as a walking wallet. Talk with him about why he travels so much and what he gets out of it. If it works for the family that's fine, just don't except it as what "has to be" if/when it becomes untennable to you or the kids. My husband seems surprised at how much he enjoys our kids. Make sure you and your kids aren't getting the butt end of your husband when he is home. All of you deserve better then that including him.

This sounds so suffocating. I would pay money to NOT join a religious group, hang out with moms at the pool, and read romance novels.

The contrast between "My husband was thrilled about a new computer he got for his job" and then "My husband seems surprised at how much he enjoys our kids" was a little jarring for me to read.

We all have different expectations of our spouses, but I get really tired of reading how women selflessly accommodate and support their husband's big important careers, and then celebrate when he does the most basic of fatherly duties, like enjoy the company of his kids.

When are we going to start calling men out for their selfish behavior? Story after story on this website emphasize that the husband cannot leave his high paying job that requires a lot of travel. Actually, if all of these moms can change their lives around to meet the needs of their children, then dads can do it too.

Yes. I agree with both of the responses here. Ugh, the original OP sounds so intolerable.

I think she sounds like a nice person who smiles a lot and enjoys spending time with her husband and children.
I imagine her as the lady at the pool in a modest swimsuit that a toddler is trying to pull down, watching and talking to her older kids, but not aggressively playing with them, and talking to the other moms and lifeguards.
When her husband shows up, he is one of those guys with a big job who thinks his wife is the most amazing person in the world for running their family and home life the way she does.
I am not saying that you have to want to be that person, but who hates that person?

Wow you are reading some dull romance novels. Look for a few stories with sexy swimsuits and lifeguard liaisons.

Seriously though--I am not here to bash SAHMs, I think that ground has been covered on DCUM. I'm just wondering why families orbit around the father's star at the expense of the other parent? Why does he not have to make any hard choices, while mothers have to agonize over their current and future job prospects, and also creating a supportive community in lieu of their husband's absence?

Why do people do this? $$$$

For a lot of men, having a sah wife frees them up to throw all their energy at work and can mean the difference between middle management and C-suite.

In other words, jobs that top out at 250-300k vs. 7 figures.

You care more about a bigger paycheck than your husband putting energy into his family. So be it.

+1

-1

This is the exact argument that people make to say that women's place is at the home. If she chooses to work, she is valuing a bigger paycheck over her family. People can be driven in their careers and be wonderful parents as well.

[Anonymous]

I totally agree with the PP who is discussing the internalized patriarchy. I'm SO tired of reading all these posts that rationalize the choice to stay home and do all the house and child care that NO ONE wants to do so "everyone's life is easier and more relaxing." Why aren't we asking why it is that the men always have the higher paying career and women are just working at a job? Now that my kids are raised, I'm so glad I had a husband who was as invested in my own professional success as much as his, and as invested in our children and home as much as I was.