Wilderness Programs

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thank you to all the parents posting about your positive experiences. I’ve been watching this thread all day. I’ve started so many responses but I just can’t seem to put into words how it feels to have no options. Even though DCUM is anon the judgement from people that cannot fathom the experiences that parents who turn to WT are going through angers me. So if you were able to post and be respectful, I appreciate it. Because I couldn’t do it.

you have options, though. there’s nothing forcing you to send your child to an abusive program.

Really? Please share the options. Of course you are aware that a parent doesn’t select WT as a first resort. So the options I’ve been through include community based therapist, inpatient therapy, PHP, IOP, wrap around in home service, and therapeutic boarding school. Please share what other options are available?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thank you to all the parents posting about your positive experiences. I’ve been watching this thread all day. I’ve started so many responses but I just can’t seem to put into words how it feels to have no options. Even though DCUM is anon the judgement from people that cannot fathom the experiences that parents who turn to WT are going through angers me. So if you were able to post and be respectful, I appreciate it. Because I couldn’t do it.

you have options, though. there’s nothing forcing you to send your child to an abusive program.

Really? Please share the options. Of course you are aware that a parent doesn’t select WT as a first resort. So the options I’ve been through include community based therapist, inpatient therapy, PHP, IOP, wrap around in home service, and therapeutic boarding school. Please share what other options are available?

It's nonsensical to claim that your only option is an abusive option. If what you're saying is that you just need respite and wilderness is the only way you can get that where you can pay to have your child detained - that's at least honest. Given that these programs last 3 months it's absurd to claim that they are going to cure such severe mental health issues anyway. What I'm sure DOES happen is that these programs market themselves as the only option to desperate parents, though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am sorry you and your child are struggling OP. I would just thoroughly research all programs. I also do not support programs that "kidnap" children in the middle of the night.

Sometimes things get so desperate. If you’ve never been through serious and terrifying problems with your child such that you wouldn’t ever have to consider this, you should not judge others who have. There is nothing like wondering if you and your other kids will make it through the night because your seriously mentally ill child is not fr the rails violence, breaking down doors and walls to get to you.

um then they need to be in residential *treatment* and properly medicated, not a program in the wilderness with minimally trained staff.

also OP take note of the kind of kid yours would be with …

Few residential treatment programs take very difficult kids. And few parents have the kind of money it takes to get into RT, though if you’re looking at wilderness that’s private pay too. And, medication is an art that requires a lot of trial and error and before you hit on the right combination, if you ever do, things can get really bad. It’s easy when you haven’t walked in those shoes to spout off solutions which don’t even remotely reflect reality.

So your answer is that a seriously mentally ill child without the right meds should be sent to a wilderness program with no doctor or real therapist on staff?

There are many reputable programs that have licensed therapists, family therapy, psychiatrists, neuropsychological testing, and medication management. Yes, I’m sure there are programs that don’t have these things, but you can’t paint them all with the same broad brush. Many residential treatment centers don’t have individual therapy, minimal interactions with a licensed therapist, or a fully on site psychiatrist. Those aren’t good either.

My son’s wilderness therapist had a Ph.D and was absolutely amazing with my son. Literally the best therapist he’s ever had. He also had weekly check-ins with a doctor. Wilderness was the best thing we ever did for my son, who was spiraling at the time. He also was transported, and they were wonderful with him. These companies have professionally trained staff and really know how to handle all types of situations. The idea of a kid being snatched and “kidnapped” is ridiculous. Our son laughed when we asked him later whether he was traumatized.

name the program

Elements. It is in Huntington, Utah.

https://www.elementswilderness.com/

The transport company was Right Direction, https://www.rdas.net/

Not a good place. https://www.breakingcodesilence.org/elements-wilderness-program/

Don’t quote a source that only supports negative experiences. Since you’re saying it’s not a good place, please post your direct experience with this specific program. Why was it not good for your child? What other programs did you consider? What other treatments did you consider before placing your child there? Since you are saying it is not good, I assume you have direct first hand knowledge.

I mean, these aren't restaurants where you might like the lasagna that someone else hated, or you caught them on an off night. These are serious allegations of abuse that permeate the industry, have been the subject of multiple exposes, congressional hearings, and lawsuits.

My first hand knowledge is a young sibling place in one of these programs by parents who did not want to actually cope with his problems. Who was so scarred he literally will not return to the US.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thank you to all the parents posting about your positive experiences. I’ve been watching this thread all day. I’ve started so many responses but I just can’t seem to put into words how it feels to have no options. Even though DCUM is anon the judgement from people that cannot fathom the experiences that parents who turn to WT are going through angers me. So if you were able to post and be respectful, I appreciate it. Because I couldn’t do it.

you have options, though. there’s nothing forcing you to send your child to an abusive program.

Really? Please share the options. Of course you are aware that a parent doesn’t select WT as a first resort. So the options I’ve been through include community based therapist, inpatient therapy, PHP, IOP, wrap around in home service, and therapeutic boarding school. Please share what other options are available?

It's nonsensical to claim that your only option is an abusive option. If what you're saying is that you just need respite and wilderness is the only way you can get that where you can pay to have your child detained - that's at least honest. Given that these programs last 3 months it's absurd to claim that they are going to cure such severe mental health issues anyway. What I'm sure DOES happen is that these programs market themselves as the only option to desperate parents, though.

Ignoring your comment that assumes all programs are abusive, please list the alternative options. I’m not familiar with options beyond the ones I’ve already explored.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Thank you to all the parents posting about your positive experiences. I’ve been watching this thread all day. I’ve started so many responses but I just can’t seem to put into words how it feels to have no options. Even though DCUM is anon the judgement from people that cannot fathom the experiences that parents who turn to WT are going through angers me. So if you were able to post and be respectful, I appreciate it. Because I couldn’t do it.

I’m really sorry things are so difficult. I’m a few years removed but I remember the hopelessness. I hope you find a program that works.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thank you to all the parents posting about your positive experiences. I’ve been watching this thread all day. I’ve started so many responses but I just can’t seem to put into words how it feels to have no options. Even though DCUM is anon the judgement from people that cannot fathom the experiences that parents who turn to WT are going through angers me. So if you were able to post and be respectful, I appreciate it. Because I couldn’t do it.

you have options, though. there’s nothing forcing you to send your child to an abusive program.

Really? Please share the options. Of course you are aware that a parent doesn’t select WT as a first resort. So the options I’ve been through include community based therapist, inpatient therapy, PHP, IOP, wrap around in home service, and therapeutic boarding school. Please share what other options are available?

It's nonsensical to claim that your only option is an abusive option. If what you're saying is that you just need respite and wilderness is the only way you can get that where you can pay to have your child detained - that's at least honest. Given that these programs last 3 months it's absurd to claim that they are going to cure such severe mental health issues anyway. What I'm sure DOES happen is that these programs market themselves as the only option to desperate parents, though.

People are not looking for wilderness because they need a break. And when your kid gets so bad and out of control that you’re looking at wilderness, the only other option is jail and since we want better for our kids, we choose wilderness.

The thing that strikes me about the criticism is that most of it comes from troubled kids who didn’t benefit from the program.

[Anonymous]

OP I am so sorry your family is going through this.


Ignore the trolls.

No one walks in your shoes but you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am sorry you and your child are struggling OP. I would just thoroughly research all programs. I also do not support programs that "kidnap" children in the middle of the night.

Sometimes things get so desperate. If you’ve never been through serious and terrifying problems with your child such that you wouldn’t ever have to consider this, you should not judge others who have. There is nothing like wondering if you and your other kids will make it through the night because your seriously mentally ill child is not fr the rails violence, breaking down doors and walls to get to you.

um then they need to be in residential *treatment* and properly medicated, not a program in the wilderness with minimally trained staff.

also OP take note of the kind of kid yours would be with …

Few residential treatment programs take very difficult kids. And few parents have the kind of money it takes to get into RT, though if you’re looking at wilderness that’s private pay too. And, medication is an art that requires a lot of trial and error and before you hit on the right combination, if you ever do, things can get really bad. It’s easy when you haven’t walked in those shoes to spout off solutions which don’t even remotely reflect reality.

So your answer is that a seriously mentally ill child without the right meds should be sent to a wilderness program with no doctor or real therapist on staff?

There are many reputable programs that have licensed therapists, family therapy, psychiatrists, neuropsychological testing, and medication management. Yes, I’m sure there are programs that don’t have these things, but you can’t paint them all with the same broad brush. Many residential treatment centers don’t have individual therapy, minimal interactions with a licensed therapist, or a fully on site psychiatrist. Those aren’t good either.

My son’s wilderness therapist had a Ph.D and was absolutely amazing with my son. Literally the best therapist he’s ever had. He also had weekly check-ins with a doctor. Wilderness was the best thing we ever did for my son, who was spiraling at the time. He also was transported, and they were wonderful with him. These companies have professionally trained staff and really know how to handle all types of situations. The idea of a kid being snatched and “kidnapped” is ridiculous. Our son laughed when we asked him later whether he was traumatized.

name the program

Elements. It is in Huntington, Utah.

https://www.elementswilderness.com/

The transport company was Right Direction, https://www.rdas.net/

Not a good place. https://www.breakingcodesilence.org/elements-wilderness-program/

Don’t quote a source that only supports negative experiences. Since you’re saying it’s not a good place, please post your direct experience with this specific program. Why was it not good for your child? What other programs did you consider? What other treatments did you consider before placing your child there? Since you are saying it is not good, I assume you have direct first hand knowledge.

I mean, these aren't restaurants where you might like the lasagna that someone else hated, or you caught them on an off night. These are serious allegations of abuse that permeate the industry, have been the subject of multiple exposes, congressional hearings, and lawsuits.

My first hand knowledge is a young sibling place in one of these programs by parents who did not want to actually cope with his problems. Who was so scarred he literally will not return to the US.

Clearly you are very scarred by this. But one person’s experience in one program does not negate the benefit of an entire industry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thank you to all the parents posting about your positive experiences. I’ve been watching this thread all day. I’ve started so many responses but I just can’t seem to put into words how it feels to have no options. Even though DCUM is anon the judgement from people that cannot fathom the experiences that parents who turn to WT are going through angers me. So if you were able to post and be respectful, I appreciate it. Because I couldn’t do it.

you have options, though. there’s nothing forcing you to send your child to an abusive program.

Really? Please share the options. Of course you are aware that a parent doesn’t select WT as a first resort. So the options I’ve been through include community based therapist, inpatient therapy, PHP, IOP, wrap around in home service, and therapeutic boarding school. Please share what other options are available?

It's nonsensical to claim that your only option is an abusive option. If what you're saying is that you just need respite and wilderness is the only way you can get that where you can pay to have your child detained - that's at least honest. Given that these programs last 3 months it's absurd to claim that they are going to cure such severe mental health issues anyway. What I'm sure DOES happen is that these programs market themselves as the only option to desperate parents, though.

DP. I'm still waiting for you to list the options - please include the age/gender of your kid whose behavior was a danger to themselves and others and how the place/therapists you are recommending were able to help your kid. TIA

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No local mental health day program wouls take my kid because she wouldnt attend voluntarily. She didnt qualify for a psych bed---once we boarded in the ER for four days waiting for a bed and the only thing abailable was the state
hospital in Staunton, which chemically restrains kids with heavy antipsychotics and discharges ASAP. Our county was wiling to pay for RTC but no one would take her. We didn't do wilderness but if you haven't been in a place where there is literally no help for your child, you have no idea.

I'm really sorry. I've had struggles with my kid but know it could be much worse. Hugs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thank you to all the parents posting about your positive experiences. I’ve been watching this thread all day. I’ve started so many responses but I just can’t seem to put into words how it feels to have no options. Even though DCUM is anon the judgement from people that cannot fathom the experiences that parents who turn to WT are going through angers me. So if you were able to post and be respectful, I appreciate it. Because I couldn’t do it.

you have options, though. there’s nothing forcing you to send your child to an abusive program.

Really? Please share the options. Of course you are aware that a parent doesn’t select WT as a first resort. So the options I’ve been through include community based therapist, inpatient therapy, PHP, IOP, wrap around in home service, and therapeutic boarding school. Please share what other options are available?

It's nonsensical to claim that your only option is an abusive option. If what you're saying is that you just need respite and wilderness is the only way you can get that where you can pay to have your child detained - that's at least honest. Given that these programs last 3 months it's absurd to claim that they are going to cure such severe mental health issues anyway. What I'm sure DOES happen is that these programs market themselves as the only option to desperate parents, though.

Residential treatment programs are typically 3 months long as well. I am sorry that your family had a traumatic experience. I can understand why you would want to warn people to use caution. However, there are many families who have also had positive, life changing experiences when there was literally nothing else left to try.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am sorry you and your child are struggling OP. I would just thoroughly research all programs. I also do not support programs that "kidnap" children in the middle of the night.

Sometimes things get so desperate. If you’ve never been through serious and terrifying problems with your child such that you wouldn’t ever have to consider this, you should not judge others who have. There is nothing like wondering if you and your other kids will make it through the night because your seriously mentally ill child is not fr the rails violence, breaking down doors and walls to get to you.

um then they need to be in residential *treatment* and properly medicated, not a program in the wilderness with minimally trained staff.

also OP take note of the kind of kid yours would be with …

Few residential treatment programs take very difficult kids. And few parents have the kind of money it takes to get into RT, though if you’re looking at wilderness that’s private pay too. And, medication is an art that requires a lot of trial and error and before you hit on the right combination, if you ever do, things can get really bad. It’s easy when you haven’t walked in those shoes to spout off solutions which don’t even remotely reflect reality.

why do you assume none of us have BTDT?

DP. I assume those who are posting the news links haven't BTDT. Those who have BTDT are posting their experiences.

I assume those who are posting that residential treatment is available for really difficult kids and that medication is the answer aren’t parenting the kind of kid whose parents are looking for alternative programs and considering alternative transportation to get them there against their will.

My experience was that everyone had given up, no hospitals or programs would take him and the “answer” was to let him get arrested and put into the justice system. Problems with that were that likely someone would have gotten badly hurt (we were so far past property damage and minor injuries from violence) and that my son would have no possibility of a future. I was not willing to let that happen. Even if my kid ended up in a bad program, which he did not, it would have been better than one of my other kids being killed or my son being sexually assaulted in jail or my son not being able to find a future because a criminal record would hold him back.

In my world, it would have been a luxury to have been able to say I won’t send my kid away or won’t have them Removed from my house against their will because I am worried about them being traumatized. He was already traumatized and inflicting serious harm on the rest of us. And the alternative guaranteed trauma.

Hugs to you. How very frustrating to be doing the best you can, have to make such a difficult choice and then get such blowback from those who haven't walked a meter in your shoes. It's easy to find a website and negative newstories. It's exponentially harder to do actually live it a make the hard choices. I hope you and your family are in a better place.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am sorry you and your child are struggling OP. I would just thoroughly research all programs. I also do not support programs that "kidnap" children in the middle of the night.

Sometimes things get so desperate. If you’ve never been through serious and terrifying problems with your child such that you wouldn’t ever have to consider this, you should not judge others who have. There is nothing like wondering if you and your other kids will make it through the night because your seriously mentally ill child is not fr the rails violence, breaking down doors and walls to get to you.

um then they need to be in residential *treatment* and properly medicated, not a program in the wilderness with minimally trained staff.

also OP take note of the kind of kid yours would be with …

Few residential treatment programs take very difficult kids. And few parents have the kind of money it takes to get into RT, though if you’re looking at wilderness that’s private pay too. And, medication is an art that requires a lot of trial and error and before you hit on the right combination, if you ever do, things can get really bad. It’s easy when you haven’t walked in those shoes to spout off solutions which don’t even remotely reflect reality.

why do you assume none of us have BTDT?

DP. I assume those who are posting the news links haven't BTDT. Those who have BTDT are posting their experiences.

I assume those who are posting that residential treatment is available for really difficult kids and that medication is the answer aren’t parenting the kind of kid whose parents are looking for alternative programs and considering alternative transportation to get them there against their will.

My experience was that everyone had given up, no hospitals or programs would take him and the “answer” was to let him get arrested and put into the justice system. Problems with that were that likely someone would have gotten badly hurt (we were so far past property damage and minor injuries from violence) and that my son would have no possibility of a future. I was not willing to let that happen. Even if my kid ended up in a bad program, which he did not, it would have been better than one of my other kids being killed or my son being sexually assaulted in jail or my son not being able to find a future because a criminal record would hold him back.

In my world, it would have been a luxury to have been able to say I won’t send my kid away or won’t have them Removed from my house against their will because I am worried about them being traumatized. He was already traumatized and inflicting serious harm on the rest of us. And the alternative guaranteed trauma.

Hugs to you. How very frustrating to be doing the best you can, have to make such a difficult choice and then get such blowback from those who haven't walked a meter in your shoes. It's easy to find a website and negative newstories. It's exponentially harder to do actually live it a make the hard choices. I hope you and your family are in a better place.

Thank you. We are better. Treatment saved my son’s life and gave all of us a future. It’s not a cure all solution and it was so painful to go down this road, but it was a miracle intervention that put my son and our family on a path to success. While we were going through the really bad times, I posted and was so thankful for the support I received on this forum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am sorry you and your child are struggling OP. I would just thoroughly research all programs. I also do not support programs that "kidnap" children in the middle of the night.

Sometimes things get so desperate. If you’ve never been through serious and terrifying problems with your child such that you wouldn’t ever have to consider this, you should not judge others who have. There is nothing like wondering if you and your other kids will make it through the night because your seriously mentally ill child is not fr the rails violence, breaking down doors and walls to get to you.

um then they need to be in residential *treatment* and properly medicated, not a program in the wilderness with minimally trained staff.

also OP take note of the kind of kid yours would be with …

Few residential treatment programs take very difficult kids. And few parents have the kind of money it takes to get into RT, though if you’re looking at wilderness that’s private pay too. And, medication is an art that requires a lot of trial and error and before you hit on the right combination, if you ever do, things can get really bad. It’s easy when you haven’t walked in those shoes to spout off solutions which don’t even remotely reflect reality.

So your answer is that a seriously mentally ill child without the right meds should be sent to a wilderness program with no doctor or real therapist on staff?

There are many reputable programs that have licensed therapists, family therapy, psychiatrists, neuropsychological testing, and medication management. Yes, I’m sure there are programs that don’t have these things, but you can’t paint them all with the same broad brush. Many residential treatment centers don’t have individual therapy, minimal interactions with a licensed therapist, or a fully on site psychiatrist. Those aren’t good either.

My son’s wilderness therapist had a Ph.D and was absolutely amazing with my son. Literally the best therapist he’s ever had. He also had weekly check-ins with a doctor. Wilderness was the best thing we ever did for my son, who was spiraling at the time. He also was transported, and they were wonderful with him. These companies have professionally trained staff and really know how to handle all types of situations. The idea of a kid being snatched and “kidnapped” is ridiculous. Our son laughed when we asked him later whether he was traumatized.

name the program

Elements. It is in Huntington, Utah.

https://www.elementswilderness.com/

The transport company was Right Direction, https://www.rdas.net/

Not a good place. https://www.breakingcodesilence.org/elements-wilderness-program/

Don’t quote a source that only supports negative experiences. Since you’re saying it’s not a good place, please post your direct experience with this specific program. Why was it not good for your child? What other programs did you consider? What other treatments did you consider before placing your child there? Since you are saying it is not good, I assume you have direct first hand knowledge.

Plus, the examples in the article posted are all from 10+ years ago. I don’t doubt that 20 years ago, these programs looked different, but much has changed with these programs since then. My son said a couple times whole he was there, someone from the state health department came out and interviewed all the kids about how they were treated. Surprise! No abuse reported.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am sorry you and your child are struggling OP. I would just thoroughly research all programs. I also do not support programs that "kidnap" children in the middle of the night.

Sometimes things get so desperate. If you’ve never been through serious and terrifying problems with your child such that you wouldn’t ever have to consider this, you should not judge others who have. There is nothing like wondering if you and your other kids will make it through the night because your seriously mentally ill child is not fr the rails violence, breaking down doors and walls to get to you.

um then they need to be in residential *treatment* and properly medicated, not a program in the wilderness with minimally trained staff.

also OP take note of the kind of kid yours would be with …

Few residential treatment programs take very difficult kids. And few parents have the kind of money it takes to get into RT, though if you’re looking at wilderness that’s private pay too. And, medication is an art that requires a lot of trial and error and before you hit on the right combination, if you ever do, things can get really bad. It’s easy when you haven’t walked in those shoes to spout off solutions which don’t even remotely reflect reality.

So your answer is that a seriously mentally ill child without the right meds should be sent to a wilderness program with no doctor or real therapist on staff?

There are many reputable programs that have licensed therapists, family therapy, psychiatrists, neuropsychological testing, and medication management. Yes, I’m sure there are programs that don’t have these things, but you can’t paint them all with the same broad brush. Many residential treatment centers don’t have individual therapy, minimal interactions with a licensed therapist, or a fully on site psychiatrist. Those aren’t good either.

My son’s wilderness therapist had a Ph.D and was absolutely amazing with my son. Literally the best therapist he’s ever had. He also had weekly check-ins with a doctor. Wilderness was the best thing we ever did for my son, who was spiraling at the time. He also was transported, and they were wonderful with him. These companies have professionally trained staff and really know how to handle all types of situations. The idea of a kid being snatched and “kidnapped” is ridiculous. Our son laughed when we asked him later whether he was traumatized.

name the program

Elements. It is in Huntington, Utah.

https://www.elementswilderness.com/

The transport company was Right Direction, https://www.rdas.net/

Not a good place. https://www.breakingcodesilence.org/elements-wilderness-program/

Don’t quote a source that only supports negative experiences. Since you’re saying it’s not a good place, please post your direct experience with this specific program. Why was it not good for your child? What other programs did you consider? What other treatments did you consider before placing your child there? Since you are saying it is not good, I assume you have direct first hand knowledge.

Plus, the examples in the article posted are all from 10+ years ago. I don’t doubt that 20 years ago, these programs looked different, but much has changed with these programs since then. My son said a couple times whole he was there, someone from the state health department came out and interviewed all the kids about how they were treated. Surprise! No abuse reported.

Slowly outdoor therapy is beginning to be recognized as a valid treatment modality. True North recently got approved as in network for people with BCBS VT. No, it's not Federal BCBS and there are many other insurance policies/providers but it's a start.