Wilderness Programs

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am sorry you and your child are struggling OP. I would just thoroughly research all programs. I also do not support programs that "kidnap" children in the middle of the night.

Sometimes things get so desperate. If you’ve never been through serious and terrifying problems with your child such that you wouldn’t ever have to consider this, you should not judge others who have. There is nothing like wondering if you and your other kids will make it through the night because your seriously mentally ill child is not fr the rails violence, breaking down doors and walls to get to you.

um then they need to be in residential *treatment* and properly medicated, not a program in the wilderness with minimally trained staff.

also OP take note of the kind of kid yours would be with …

Few residential treatment programs take very difficult kids. And few parents have the kind of money it takes to get into RT, though if you’re looking at wilderness that’s private pay too. And, medication is an art that requires a lot of trial and error and before you hit on the right combination, if you ever do, things can get really bad. It’s easy when you haven’t walked in those shoes to spout off solutions which don’t even remotely reflect reality.

why do you assume none of us have BTDT?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am sorry you and your child are struggling OP. I would just thoroughly research all programs. I also do not support programs that "kidnap" children in the middle of the night.

Sometimes things get so desperate. If you’ve never been through serious and terrifying problems with your child such that you wouldn’t ever have to consider this, you should not judge others who have. There is nothing like wondering if you and your other kids will make it through the night because your seriously mentally ill child is not fr the rails violence, breaking down doors and walls to get to you.

um then they need to be in residential *treatment* and properly medicated, not a program in the wilderness with minimally trained staff.

also OP take note of the kind of kid yours would be with …

Few residential treatment programs take very difficult kids. And few parents have the kind of money it takes to get into RT, though if you’re looking at wilderness that’s private pay too. And, medication is an art that requires a lot of trial and error and before you hit on the right combination, if you ever do, things can get really bad. It’s easy when you haven’t walked in those shoes to spout off solutions which don’t even remotely reflect reality.

why do you assume none of us have BTDT?

DP. I assume those who are posting the news links haven't BTDT. Those who have BTDT are posting their experiences.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am sorry you and your child are struggling OP. I would just thoroughly research all programs. I also do not support programs that "kidnap" children in the middle of the night.

Sometimes things get so desperate. If you’ve never been through serious and terrifying problems with your child such that you wouldn’t ever have to consider this, you should not judge others who have. There is nothing like wondering if you and your other kids will make it through the night because your seriously mentally ill child is not fr the rails violence, breaking down doors and walls to get to you.

um then they need to be in residential *treatment* and properly medicated, not a program in the wilderness with minimally trained staff.

also OP take note of the kind of kid yours would be with …

Few residential treatment programs take very difficult kids. And few parents have the kind of money it takes to get into RT, though if you’re looking at wilderness that’s private pay too. And, medication is an art that requires a lot of trial and error and before you hit on the right combination, if you ever do, things can get really bad. It’s easy when you haven’t walked in those shoes to spout off solutions which don’t even remotely reflect reality.

So your answer is that a seriously mentally ill child without the right meds should be sent to a wilderness program with no doctor or real therapist on staff?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am sorry you and your child are struggling OP. I would just thoroughly research all programs. I also do not support programs that "kidnap" children in the middle of the night.

Sometimes things get so desperate. If you’ve never been through serious and terrifying problems with your child such that you wouldn’t ever have to consider this, you should not judge others who have. There is nothing like wondering if you and your other kids will make it through the night because your seriously mentally ill child is not fr the rails violence, breaking down doors and walls to get to you.

But you don't think that causes trauma to a child. I don't know. Maybe there is no better answer. I see having guys grabbing you out of bed in the middle of the night as inherently traumatic. This is compared to a forced hospitalization (which I see can also been traumatic but doesn't have the violence associated with sanctioned kidnapping).

If you have a child who is so disturbed and you are that desperate for help that you would have your child transported against their will, your kid is already traumatized. And so is your family. When your options are to allow your kid to remain in the home and terrorize and continue to traumatize your other kids and family members or risk some additional trauma to the kid you are trying to save, it’s not a hard choice. You have your child transported.

I can appreciate your question but you clearly have no idea just how bad things can get for some families.

Exactly.

so wilderness therapy is basically private jail?

Not at all.

based on the answers here sounds like yes, parents choose this because it’s a way to forcibly detain their kids elsewhere

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am sorry you and your child are struggling OP. I would just thoroughly research all programs. I also do not support programs that "kidnap" children in the middle of the night.

Sometimes things get so desperate. If you’ve never been through serious and terrifying problems with your child such that you wouldn’t ever have to consider this, you should not judge others who have. There is nothing like wondering if you and your other kids will make it through the night because your seriously mentally ill child is not fr the rails violence, breaking down doors and walls to get to you.

um then they need to be in residential *treatment* and properly medicated, not a program in the wilderness with minimally trained staff.

also OP take note of the kind of kid yours would be with …

Few residential treatment programs take very difficult kids. And few parents have the kind of money it takes to get into RT, though if you’re looking at wilderness that’s private pay too. And, medication is an art that requires a lot of trial and error and before you hit on the right combination, if you ever do, things can get really bad. It’s easy when you haven’t walked in those shoes to spout off solutions which don’t even remotely reflect reality.

why do you assume none of us have BTDT?

DP. I assume those who are posting the news links haven't BTDT. Those who have BTDT are posting their experiences.

I have absolutely BTDT with a relative who was permanently scarred.

[Anonymous]

No local mental health day program wouls take my kid because she wouldnt attend voluntarily. She didnt qualify for a psych bed---once we boarded in the ER for four days waiting for a bed and the only thing abailable was the state
hospital in Staunton, which chemically restrains kids with heavy antipsychotics and discharges ASAP. Our county was wiling to pay for RTC but no one would take her. We didn't do wilderness but if you haven't been in a place where there is literally no help for your child, you have no idea.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am sorry you and your child are struggling OP. I would just thoroughly research all programs. I also do not support programs that "kidnap" children in the middle of the night.

Sometimes things get so desperate. If you’ve never been through serious and terrifying problems with your child such that you wouldn’t ever have to consider this, you should not judge others who have. There is nothing like wondering if you and your other kids will make it through the night because your seriously mentally ill child is not fr the rails violence, breaking down doors and walls to get to you.

um then they need to be in residential *treatment* and properly medicated, not a program in the wilderness with minimally trained staff.

also OP take note of the kind of kid yours would be with …

Few residential treatment programs take very difficult kids. And few parents have the kind of money it takes to get into RT, though if you’re looking at wilderness that’s private pay too. And, medication is an art that requires a lot of trial and error and before you hit on the right combination, if you ever do, things can get really bad. It’s easy when you haven’t walked in those shoes to spout off solutions which don’t even remotely reflect reality.

So your answer is that a seriously mentally ill child without the right meds should be sent to a wilderness program with no doctor or real therapist on staff?

There are many reputable programs that have licensed therapists, family therapy, psychiatrists, neuropsychological testing, and medication management. Yes, I’m sure there are programs that don’t have these things, but you can’t paint them all with the same broad brush. Many residential treatment centers don’t have individual therapy, minimal interactions with a licensed therapist, or a fully on site psychiatrist. Those aren’t good either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am sorry you and your child are struggling OP. I would just thoroughly research all programs. I also do not support programs that "kidnap" children in the middle of the night.

Sometimes things get so desperate. If you’ve never been through serious and terrifying problems with your child such that you wouldn’t ever have to consider this, you should not judge others who have. There is nothing like wondering if you and your other kids will make it through the night because your seriously mentally ill child is not fr the rails violence, breaking down doors and walls to get to you.

um then they need to be in residential *treatment* and properly medicated, not a program in the wilderness with minimally trained staff.

also OP take note of the kind of kid yours would be with …

Few residential treatment programs take very difficult kids. And few parents have the kind of money it takes to get into RT, though if you’re looking at wilderness that’s private pay too. And, medication is an art that requires a lot of trial and error and before you hit on the right combination, if you ever do, things can get really bad. It’s easy when you haven’t walked in those shoes to spout off solutions which don’t even remotely reflect reality.

So your answer is that a seriously mentally ill child without the right meds should be sent to a wilderness program with no doctor or real therapist on staff?

There are many reputable programs that have licensed therapists, family therapy, psychiatrists, neuropsychological testing, and medication management. Yes, I’m sure there are programs that don’t have these things, but you can’t paint them all with the same broad brush. Many residential treatment centers don’t have individual therapy, minimal interactions with a licensed therapist, or a fully on site psychiatrist. Those aren’t good either.

You can post those here. Many more programs are disreputable and abusive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am sorry you and your child are struggling OP. I would just thoroughly research all programs. I also do not support programs that "kidnap" children in the middle of the night.

Sometimes things get so desperate. If you’ve never been through serious and terrifying problems with your child such that you wouldn’t ever have to consider this, you should not judge others who have. There is nothing like wondering if you and your other kids will make it through the night because your seriously mentally ill child is not fr the rails violence, breaking down doors and walls to get to you.

um then they need to be in residential *treatment* and properly medicated, not a program in the wilderness with minimally trained staff.

also OP take note of the kind of kid yours would be with …

Few residential treatment programs take very difficult kids. And few parents have the kind of money it takes to get into RT, though if you’re looking at wilderness that’s private pay too. And, medication is an art that requires a lot of trial and error and before you hit on the right combination, if you ever do, things can get really bad. It’s easy when you haven’t walked in those shoes to spout off solutions which don’t even remotely reflect reality.

So your answer is that a seriously mentally ill child without the right meds should be sent to a wilderness program with no doctor or real therapist on staff?

There are many reputable programs that have licensed therapists, family therapy, psychiatrists, neuropsychological testing, and medication management. Yes, I’m sure there are programs that don’t have these things, but you can’t paint them all with the same broad brush. Many residential treatment centers don’t have individual therapy, minimal interactions with a licensed therapist, or a fully on site psychiatrist. Those aren’t good either.

You can post those here. Many more programs are disreputable and abusive.

This is a good start:

https://natsap.org/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am sorry you and your child are struggling OP. I would just thoroughly research all programs. I also do not support programs that "kidnap" children in the middle of the night.

Sometimes things get so desperate. If you’ve never been through serious and terrifying problems with your child such that you wouldn’t ever have to consider this, you should not judge others who have. There is nothing like wondering if you and your other kids will make it through the night because your seriously mentally ill child is not fr the rails violence, breaking down doors and walls to get to you.

um then they need to be in residential *treatment* and properly medicated, not a program in the wilderness with minimally trained staff.

also OP take note of the kind of kid yours would be with …

Few residential treatment programs take very difficult kids. And few parents have the kind of money it takes to get into RT, though if you’re looking at wilderness that’s private pay too. And, medication is an art that requires a lot of trial and error and before you hit on the right combination, if you ever do, things can get really bad. It’s easy when you haven’t walked in those shoes to spout off solutions which don’t even remotely reflect reality.

why do you assume none of us have BTDT?

DP. I assume those who are posting the news links haven't BTDT. Those who have BTDT are posting their experiences.

I assume those who are posting that residential treatment is available for really difficult kids and that medication is the answer aren’t parenting the kind of kid whose parents are looking for alternative programs and considering alternative transportation to get them there against their will.

My experience was that everyone had given up, no hospitals or programs would take him and the “answer” was to let him get arrested and put into the justice system. Problems with that were that likely someone would have gotten badly hurt (we were so far past property damage and minor injuries from violence) and that my son would have no possibility of a future. I was not willing to let that happen. Even if my kid ended up in a bad program, which he did not, it would have been better than one of my other kids being killed or my son being sexually assaulted in jail or my son not being able to find a future because a criminal record would hold him back.

In my world, it would have been a luxury to have been able to say I won’t send my kid away or won’t have them Removed from my house against their will because I am worried about them being traumatized. He was already traumatized and inflicting serious harm on the rest of us. And the alternative guaranteed trauma.

[Anonymous]

I am also sorry OP that you are going through this. My nephew did Elements in Utah and it changed his life. We are a very loving, close family and researched it thoroughly. He was transported - we laughingly refer to it as “kid napping” now but that was not what it was. He would not have willingly gone so we had no choice. But the transport was thoughtfully done and prepared for. The experience turned him completely around. The discharge plan included therapeutic residential school where he absolutely thrived and he’s now off at a very competitive college living independently and has a recurring paid internship in his field (biomedical engineering) for summers. It’s not all roses and perfect, he still struggles sometimes. It was heartbreaking for all of us to send him to Wilderness and we have since heard some of the horror stories, but no regrets. None.

[Anonymous]

My DD was at BlueFire in Idaho. They have programs for boys, girls, older teens and younger tweens. It was a very stabilizing experience and she is now at a TBS in Arizona getting ready to graduate. What a difference those two programs made!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No local mental health day program wouls take my kid because she wouldnt attend voluntarily. She didnt qualify for a psych bed---once we boarded in the ER for four days waiting for a bed and the only thing abailable was the state
hospital in Staunton, which chemically restrains kids with heavy antipsychotics and discharges ASAP. Our county was wiling to pay for RTC but no one would take her. We didn't do wilderness but if you haven't been in a place where there is literally no help for your child, you have no idea.

I can't imagine getting the school district to agree to pay for RTC and then no one would admit your dc. That's so awful.

[Anonymous]

OP I am very. Sorry your family is going threw this and I sincerely hope your child gets the help they need.

This is so hard for many families you are not alone

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am sorry you and your child are struggling OP. I would just thoroughly research all programs. I also do not support programs that "kidnap" children in the middle of the night.

Sometimes things get so desperate. If you’ve never been through serious and terrifying problems with your child such that you wouldn’t ever have to consider this, you should not judge others who have. There is nothing like wondering if you and your other kids will make it through the night because your seriously mentally ill child is not fr the rails violence, breaking down doors and walls to get to you.

um then they need to be in residential *treatment* and properly medicated, not a program in the wilderness with minimally trained staff.

also OP take note of the kind of kid yours would be with …

Few residential treatment programs take very difficult kids. And few parents have the kind of money it takes to get into RT, though if you’re looking at wilderness that’s private pay too. And, medication is an art that requires a lot of trial and error and before you hit on the right combination, if you ever do, things can get really bad. It’s easy when you haven’t walked in those shoes to spout off solutions which don’t even remotely reflect reality.

So your answer is that a seriously mentally ill child without the right meds should be sent to a wilderness program with no doctor or real therapist on staff?

There are many reputable programs that have licensed therapists, family therapy, psychiatrists, neuropsychological testing, and medication management. Yes, I’m sure there are programs that don’t have these things, but you can’t paint them all with the same broad brush. Many residential treatment centers don’t have individual therapy, minimal interactions with a licensed therapist, or a fully on site psychiatrist. Those aren’t good either.

My son’s wilderness therapist had a Ph.D and was absolutely amazing with my son. Literally the best therapist he’s ever had. He also had weekly check-ins with a doctor. Wilderness was the best thing we ever did for my son, who was spiraling at the time. He also was transported, and they were wonderful with him. These companies have professionally trained staff and really know how to handle all types of situations. The idea of a kid being snatched and “kidnapped” is ridiculous. Our son laughed when we asked him later whether he was traumatized.