Wilderness Programs

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thank you to all the parents posting about your positive experiences. I’ve been watching this thread all day. I’ve started so many responses but I just can’t seem to put into words how it feels to have no options. Even though DCUM is anon the judgement from people that cannot fathom the experiences that parents who turn to WT are going through angers me. So if you were able to post and be respectful, I appreciate it. Because I couldn’t do it.

you have options, though. there’s nothing forcing you to send your child to an abusive program.

Really? Please share the options. Of course you are aware that a parent doesn’t select WT as a first resort. So the options I’ve been through include community based therapist, inpatient therapy, PHP, IOP, wrap around in home service, and therapeutic boarding school. Please share what other options are available?

It's nonsensical to claim that your only option is an abusive option. If what you're saying is that you just need respite and wilderness is the only way you can get that where you can pay to have your child detained - that's at least honest. Given that these programs last 3 months it's absurd to claim that they are going to cure such severe mental health issues anyway. What I'm sure DOES happen is that these programs market themselves as the only option to desperate parents, though.

DP. I'm still waiting for you to list the options - please include the age/gender of your kid whose behavior was a danger to themselves and others and how the place/therapists you are recommending were able to help your kid. TIA

That is a nonsequitur. Something is not better than nothing.

In many cases it is. Where “nothing” could result in your family being killed, your child killing themselves or your child in jail, something is better than nothing.

I mean, if your motivation is literally that you need your kid to be in private detention for 3 months, at least that is honest. I hope you are informing these programs that your child is *homicidal.*

My motivation was treatment not warehousing. My son got excellent treatment and is doing well thanks to these type of programs. It was not private detention.

If he was actually homicidal, I hope he was in a locked ward with intensive services provided by an MD. Right?

Not my child but LOL! Are you kidding me? Those don't exist until your child has actually murdered someone, and then they are just locked up with very little treatment.
Do you think there are these mythical magical mental health facilities to help aggressive kids? I assure you, there are not.

Great so you think homicidal teens should be sent to wilderness programs where they are secluded with other teens and staff without MDs. Makes a ton of sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No local mental health day program wouls take my kid because she wouldnt attend voluntarily. She didnt qualify for a psych bed---once we boarded in the ER for four days waiting for a bed and the only thing abailable was the state
hospital in Staunton, which chemically restrains kids with heavy antipsychotics and discharges ASAP. Our county was wiling to pay for RTC but no one would take her. We didn't do wilderness but if you haven't been in a place where there is literally no help for your child, you have no idea.

I'm really sorry. I've had struggles with my kid but know it could be much worse. Hugs.

I would love the pp who is anti-wilderness could share some of the great alternatives available to this family. Please, share.

In my brother’s case, he literally just needed a parent to pay attention to him. Possibly individual therapy. That’s it.

And you are being totally illogical here. Just because you feel there are no other alternatives does not make an abusive quasi-imprisonment ok.

The point is that just because one program was abusive does not mean an entire industry is bad.

And, if you are right that your brother just needed attention, then it might not have been the right placement for him. But I honestly can’t imagine a sibling actually understanding the reasons for such a complicated decision and you might be minimizing your brother’s situation and blaming your parents unfairly because you miss him. I am sure that my other kids don’t know the entirety of the circumstances and events that led to me placing my son. That would have been too big of a burden for them to carry.

At this point, concluding that the “troubled teen” industry is uniformly bad is totally reasonable. That doesn’t mean there are not good wilderness programs like Outward Bound and Nolls, and medically appropriate residential therepeutic centers. But yeah, any program that has the following characteristics is bad:

- children sent against their will
- children physically restrained
- children not given physical privacy
- children not allowed to communicate freely with parents
- a “tough love” or group-confrontation like approach
- absence of correct ratio of mental health professionals
- physical punishment/discomfort used as a purported therepeutic tool
- no accounts of abusive behavior online

and of course, your are 100% wrong about my brother.

Well let’s see…my kid has spent time at Shephard Pratt—one of the most renowned mental health hospitals.

children sent against their will—-yes this happens at SP. Children/teens don’t want to go there
- children physically restrained—-yes this happens at SP. Staff are trained how to do this safely
- children not given physical privacy—-yes this happens at SP. When you are a danger to yourself and others, observation is important
- children not allowed to communicate freely with parents—-yes this happens at SP. From my sons perspective, he was not allowed to freely communicate with me—-there are phone call hours when communication is allowed.
- a “tough love” or group-confrontation like approach —-yes this happens at SP. Being accountable for your actions is part of accepting that you have a part in your behavior
- absence of correct ratio of mental health professionals—-ha ha ha. Every facility that supports mental health is faced with this issue
- physical punishment/discomfort used as a purported therepeutic tool—again this is similar to your phone call requirement. Kids in these programs are properly outfitted. Sure, camping is less comfortable than a bed but that doesn’t mean it’s bad
- no accounts of abusive behavior online—-right—because everything you read online is true

I’m still waiting for someone to post the options available to parents that have tried all the traditional modalities. Since you feel so strongly that WT is inappropriate, list the alternatives. I won’t make you go back to pg 5 so I’ll list what I’ve tried again—-community based therapy, inpatient, IOP, PHP, wrap around service, and therapeutic boarding school.

Shephard Pratt is a hospital in this area. Not a poorly regulated “wilderness therapy program” halfway across the country.

Correct. And that is my point. A highly regarded, regulated mental health hospital has all of the criteria that PP says are unacceptable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No local mental health day program wouls take my kid because she wouldnt attend voluntarily. She didnt qualify for a psych bed---once we boarded in the ER for four days waiting for a bed and the only thing abailable was the state
hospital in Staunton, which chemically restrains kids with heavy antipsychotics and discharges ASAP. Our county was wiling to pay for RTC but no one would take her. We didn't do wilderness but if you haven't been in a place where there is literally no help for your child, you have no idea.

I'm really sorry. I've had struggles with my kid but know it could be much worse. Hugs.

I would love the pp who is anti-wilderness could share some of the great alternatives available to this family. Please, share.

In my brother’s case, he literally just needed a parent to pay attention to him. Possibly individual therapy. That’s it.

And you are being totally illogical here. Just because you feel there are no other alternatives does not make an abusive quasi-imprisonment ok.

Are you saying your brother went from no therapy at all while in the home directly to WT? Your parents made this decision without the guidance of any medical professional?

That is correct. Are you under the impression that there are some kind of actual standards for admission? Ha ha ha.

From my admission experience 2 years ago—yes, there are standards. Programs want successful outcomes. A cohort is both the therapist AND also the kids currently in the program. That’s why educational consultants are so important. Today, admissions is a thoughtful process about fit—fit for modality, fit with the therapist, and fit with the existing group. A child with ASD who functions 3 yrs below their chronological age will not do well in a group with kids who self medicate.

Today, a recommendation package has to be put together. If the treating therapist/psych is not submitting a recommendation, the child isn’t getting in.

Yeah I’m sure a place like Trails or Elements has a high rejection rate … these are for-profit programs, not selective schools.

I posted earlier about my mentally ill child. We could not find a well-regarded wilderness therapy that was willing to accept her. They are very selective with the kids they take.

Name the programs that declined. the problem is that there are many programs and consultants who would have accepted her.

Not PP, but Trails declined my kid. Yes, there are programs that will take a child---it's called fit. We see the same thing with local SN school applications in this area. Not every program is a fit for every child.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Its the kind of parenting situation where until you have a child like this, you have no idea WTF you are talking about.

and I am telling you that my personal experience is that many parents who claim “there is no other option” are a) sh*tty parents or b) exploited by this industry. They get a LOT of money from you. Of course they are going to try to convince you it is the only way.

it’s funny - this discussion happens regularly on DCUM and the actual evidence on the troubled teen industry becomes more terrible every time. For example:

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/10/11/opinion/teen-mental-health-care.html

https://www.sltrib.com/news/2022/02/14/utah-regulators-say-girl/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thank you to all the parents posting about your positive experiences. I’ve been watching this thread all day. I’ve started so many responses but I just can’t seem to put into words how it feels to have no options. Even though DCUM is anon the judgement from people that cannot fathom the experiences that parents who turn to WT are going through angers me. So if you were able to post and be respectful, I appreciate it. Because I couldn’t do it.

you have options, though. there’s nothing forcing you to send your child to an abusive program.

Really? Please share the options. Of course you are aware that a parent doesn’t select WT as a first resort. So the options I’ve been through include community based therapist, inpatient therapy, PHP, IOP, wrap around in home service, and therapeutic boarding school. Please share what other options are available?

It's nonsensical to claim that your only option is an abusive option. If what you're saying is that you just need respite and wilderness is the only way you can get that where you can pay to have your child detained - that's at least honest. Given that these programs last 3 months it's absurd to claim that they are going to cure such severe mental health issues anyway. What I'm sure DOES happen is that these programs market themselves as the only option to desperate parents, though.

DP. I'm still waiting for you to list the options - please include the age/gender of your kid whose behavior was a danger to themselves and others and how the place/therapists you are recommending were able to help your kid. TIA

That is a nonsequitur. Something is not better than nothing.

In many cases it is. Where “nothing” could result in your family being killed, your child killing themselves or your child in jail, something is better than nothing.

I mean, if your motivation is literally that you need your kid to be in private detention for 3 months, at least that is honest. I hope you are informing these programs that your child is *homicidal.*

My motivation was treatment not warehousing. My son got excellent treatment and is doing well thanks to these type of programs. It was not private detention.

If he was actually homicidal, I hope he was in a locked ward with intensive services provided by an MD. Right?

Not my child but LOL! Are you kidding me? Those don't exist until your child has actually murdered someone, and then they are just locked up with very little treatment.
Do you think there are these mythical magical mental health facilities to help aggressive kids? I assure you, there are not.

I think this just shows that PP has no idea what she is posting about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No local mental health day program wouls take my kid because she wouldnt attend voluntarily. She didnt qualify for a psych bed---once we boarded in the ER for four days waiting for a bed and the only thing abailable was the state
hospital in Staunton, which chemically restrains kids with heavy antipsychotics and discharges ASAP. Our county was wiling to pay for RTC but no one would take her. We didn't do wilderness but if you haven't been in a place where there is literally no help for your child, you have no idea.

I'm really sorry. I've had struggles with my kid but know it could be much worse. Hugs.

I would love the pp who is anti-wilderness could share some of the great alternatives available to this family. Please, share.

In my brother’s case, he literally just needed a parent to pay attention to him. Possibly individual therapy. That’s it.

And you are being totally illogical here. Just because you feel there are no other alternatives does not make an abusive quasi-imprisonment ok.

The point is that just because one program was abusive does not mean an entire industry is bad.

And, if you are right that your brother just needed attention, then it might not have been the right placement for him. But I honestly can’t imagine a sibling actually understanding the reasons for such a complicated decision and you might be minimizing your brother’s situation and blaming your parents unfairly because you miss him. I am sure that my other kids don’t know the entirety of the circumstances and events that led to me placing my son. That would have been too big of a burden for them to carry.

At this point, concluding that the “troubled teen” industry is uniformly bad is totally reasonable. That doesn’t mean there are not good wilderness programs like Outward Bound and Nolls, and medically appropriate residential therepeutic centers. But yeah, any program that has the following characteristics is bad:

- children sent against their will
- children physically restrained
- children not given physical privacy
- children not allowed to communicate freely with parents
- a “tough love” or group-confrontation like approach
- absence of correct ratio of mental health professionals
- physical punishment/discomfort used as a purported therepeutic tool
- no accounts of abusive behavior online

and of course, your are 100% wrong about my brother.

Well let’s see…my kid has spent time at Shephard Pratt—one of the most renowned mental health hospitals.

children sent against their will—-yes this happens at SP. Children/teens don’t want to go there
- children physically restrained—-yes this happens at SP. Staff are trained how to do this safely
- children not given physical privacy—-yes this happens at SP. When you are a danger to yourself and others, observation is important
- children not allowed to communicate freely with parents—-yes this happens at SP. From my sons perspective, he was not allowed to freely communicate with me—-there are phone call hours when communication is allowed.
- a “tough love” or group-confrontation like approach —-yes this happens at SP. Being accountable for your actions is part of accepting that you have a part in your behavior
- absence of correct ratio of mental health professionals—-ha ha ha. Every facility that supports mental health is faced with this issue
- physical punishment/discomfort used as a purported therepeutic tool—again this is similar to your phone call requirement. Kids in these programs are properly outfitted. Sure, camping is less comfortable than a bed but that doesn’t mean it’s bad
- no accounts of abusive behavior online—-right—because everything you read online is true

I’m still waiting for someone to post the options available to parents that have tried all the traditional modalities. Since you feel so strongly that WT is inappropriate, list the alternatives. I won’t make you go back to pg 5 so I’ll list what I’ve tried again—-community based therapy, inpatient, IOP, PHP, wrap around service, and therapeutic boarding school.

Shephard Pratt is a hospital in this area. Not a poorly regulated “wilderness therapy program” halfway across the country.

Correct. And that is my point. A highly regarded, regulated mental health hospital has all of the criteria that PP says are unacceptable.

Shephard Pratt is completely different. It does not use punishment/physical discomfort as a therapeutic tool; it is staffed by doctors; it does not isolate children; it provides medication management.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thank you to all the parents posting about your positive experiences. I’ve been watching this thread all day. I’ve started so many responses but I just can’t seem to put into words how it feels to have no options. Even though DCUM is anon the judgement from people that cannot fathom the experiences that parents who turn to WT are going through angers me. So if you were able to post and be respectful, I appreciate it. Because I couldn’t do it.

you have options, though. there’s nothing forcing you to send your child to an abusive program.

Really? Please share the options. Of course you are aware that a parent doesn’t select WT as a first resort. So the options I’ve been through include community based therapist, inpatient therapy, PHP, IOP, wrap around in home service, and therapeutic boarding school. Please share what other options are available?

It's nonsensical to claim that your only option is an abusive option. If what you're saying is that you just need respite and wilderness is the only way you can get that where you can pay to have your child detained - that's at least honest. Given that these programs last 3 months it's absurd to claim that they are going to cure such severe mental health issues anyway. What I'm sure DOES happen is that these programs market themselves as the only option to desperate parents, though.

DP. I'm still waiting for you to list the options - please include the age/gender of your kid whose behavior was a danger to themselves and others and how the place/therapists you are recommending were able to help your kid. TIA

That is a nonsequitur. Something is not better than nothing.

In many cases it is. Where “nothing” could result in your family being killed, your child killing themselves or your child in jail, something is better than nothing.

I mean, if your motivation is literally that you need your kid to be in private detention for 3 months, at least that is honest. I hope you are informing these programs that your child is *homicidal.*

My motivation was treatment not warehousing. My son got excellent treatment and is doing well thanks to these type of programs. It was not private detention.

If he was actually homicidal, I hope he was in a locked ward with intensive services provided by an MD. Right?

Not my child but LOL! Are you kidding me? Those don't exist until your child has actually murdered someone, and then they are just locked up with very little treatment.
Do you think there are these mythical magical mental health facilities to help aggressive kids? I assure you, there are not.

I think this just shows that PP has no idea what she is posting about.

Oh yes, I am completely deluded, along with multiple major news outlets, Congressional committees, state legislatures …

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thank you to all the parents posting about your positive experiences. I’ve been watching this thread all day. I’ve started so many responses but I just can’t seem to put into words how it feels to have no options. Even though DCUM is anon the judgement from people that cannot fathom the experiences that parents who turn to WT are going through angers me. So if you were able to post and be respectful, I appreciate it. Because I couldn’t do it.

you have options, though. there’s nothing forcing you to send your child to an abusive program.

Really? Please share the options. Of course you are aware that a parent doesn’t select WT as a first resort. So the options I’ve been through include community based therapist, inpatient therapy, PHP, IOP, wrap around in home service, and therapeutic boarding school. Please share what other options are available?

It's nonsensical to claim that your only option is an abusive option. If what you're saying is that you just need respite and wilderness is the only way you can get that where you can pay to have your child detained - that's at least honest. Given that these programs last 3 months it's absurd to claim that they are going to cure such severe mental health issues anyway. What I'm sure DOES happen is that these programs market themselves as the only option to desperate parents, though.

DP. I'm still waiting for you to list the options - please include the age/gender of your kid whose behavior was a danger to themselves and others and how the place/therapists you are recommending were able to help your kid. TIA

That is a nonsequitur. Something is not better than nothing.

In many cases it is. Where “nothing” could result in your family being killed, your child killing themselves or your child in jail, something is better than nothing.

I mean, if your motivation is literally that you need your kid to be in private detention for 3 months, at least that is honest. I hope you are informing these programs that your child is *homicidal.*

My motivation was treatment not warehousing. My son got excellent treatment and is doing well thanks to these type of programs. It was not private detention.

If he was actually homicidal, I hope he was in a locked ward with intensive services provided by an MD. Right?

Not my child but LOL! Are you kidding me? Those don't exist until your child has actually murdered someone, and then they are just locked up with very little treatment.
Do you think there are these mythical magical mental health facilities to help aggressive kids? I assure you, there are not.

Great so you think homicidal teens should be sent to wilderness programs where they are secluded with other teens and staff without MDs. Makes a ton of sense.

In a mental health hospital, the MD makes rounds. I would say my kid say saw the MD 2x/week for 10-15 each time. The nitty gritty work is done by the staff. Same at WT. And yes, there is an MD available.

[Anonymous]

There is one poster here who has not been in this situation with their own child and continues to call people who have nonsensical. OP, I hope you got useful information. I’m not going to keep engaging with this person and I encourage others to do the same.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No local mental health day program wouls take my kid because she wouldnt attend voluntarily. She didnt qualify for a psych bed---once we boarded in the ER for four days waiting for a bed and the only thing abailable was the state
hospital in Staunton, which chemically restrains kids with heavy antipsychotics and discharges ASAP. Our county was wiling to pay for RTC but no one would take her. We didn't do wilderness but if you haven't been in a place where there is literally no help for your child, you have no idea.

I'm really sorry. I've had struggles with my kid but know it could be much worse. Hugs.

I would love the pp who is anti-wilderness could share some of the great alternatives available to this family. Please, share.

In my brother’s case, he literally just needed a parent to pay attention to him. Possibly individual therapy. That’s it.

And you are being totally illogical here. Just because you feel there are no other alternatives does not make an abusive quasi-imprisonment ok.

Are you saying your brother went from no therapy at all while in the home directly to WT? Your parents made this decision without the guidance of any medical professional?

That is correct. Are you under the impression that there are some kind of actual standards for admission? Ha ha ha.

From my admission experience 2 years ago—yes, there are standards. Programs want successful outcomes. A cohort is both the therapist AND also the kids currently in the program. That’s why educational consultants are so important. Today, admissions is a thoughtful process about fit—fit for modality, fit with the therapist, and fit with the existing group. A child with ASD who functions 3 yrs below their chronological age will not do well in a group with kids who self medicate.

Today, a recommendation package has to be put together. If the treating therapist/psych is not submitting a recommendation, the child isn’t getting in.

Yeah I’m sure a place like Trails or Elements has a high rejection rate … these are for-profit programs, not selective schools.

I posted earlier about my mentally ill child. We could not find a well-regarded wilderness therapy that was willing to accept her. They are very selective with the kids they take.

Name the programs that declined. the problem is that there are many programs and consultants who would have accepted her.

Not PP, but Trails declined my kid. Yes, there are programs that will take a child---it's called fit. We see the same thing with local SN school applications in this area. Not every program is a fit for every child.

Trails is being sued for sexual abuse of minors. You are lucky your child was declined.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thank you to all the parents posting about your positive experiences. I’ve been watching this thread all day. I’ve started so many responses but I just can’t seem to put into words how it feels to have no options. Even though DCUM is anon the judgement from people that cannot fathom the experiences that parents who turn to WT are going through angers me. So if you were able to post and be respectful, I appreciate it. Because I couldn’t do it.

you have options, though. there’s nothing forcing you to send your child to an abusive program.

Really? Please share the options. Of course you are aware that a parent doesn’t select WT as a first resort. So the options I’ve been through include community based therapist, inpatient therapy, PHP, IOP, wrap around in home service, and therapeutic boarding school. Please share what other options are available?

It's nonsensical to claim that your only option is an abusive option. If what you're saying is that you just need respite and wilderness is the only way you can get that where you can pay to have your child detained - that's at least honest. Given that these programs last 3 months it's absurd to claim that they are going to cure such severe mental health issues anyway. What I'm sure DOES happen is that these programs market themselves as the only option to desperate parents, though.

DP. I'm still waiting for you to list the options - please include the age/gender of your kid whose behavior was a danger to themselves and others and how the place/therapists you are recommending were able to help your kid. TIA

That is a nonsequitur. Something is not better than nothing.

In many cases it is. Where “nothing” could result in your family being killed, your child killing themselves or your child in jail, something is better than nothing.

I mean, if your motivation is literally that you need your kid to be in private detention for 3 months, at least that is honest. I hope you are informing these programs that your child is *homicidal.*

My motivation was treatment not warehousing. My son got excellent treatment and is doing well thanks to these type of programs. It was not private detention.

If he was actually homicidal, I hope he was in a locked ward with intensive services provided by an MD. Right?

Not my child but LOL! Are you kidding me? Those don't exist until your child has actually murdered someone, and then they are just locked up with very little treatment.
Do you think there are these mythical magical mental health facilities to help aggressive kids? I assure you, there are not.

Great so you think homicidal teens should be sent to wilderness programs where they are secluded with other teens and staff without MDs. Makes a ton of sense.

In a mental health hospital, the MD makes rounds. I would say my kid say saw the MD 2x/week for 10-15 each time. The nitty gritty work is done by the staff. Same at WT. And yes, there is an MD available.

Name the Wilderness Therapy program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No local mental health day program wouls take my kid because she wouldnt attend voluntarily. She didnt qualify for a psych bed---once we boarded in the ER for four days waiting for a bed and the only thing abailable was the state
hospital in Staunton, which chemically restrains kids with heavy antipsychotics and discharges ASAP. Our county was wiling to pay for RTC but no one would take her. We didn't do wilderness but if you haven't been in a place where there is literally no help for your child, you have no idea.

I'm really sorry. I've had struggles with my kid but know it could be much worse. Hugs.

I would love the pp who is anti-wilderness could share some of the great alternatives available to this family. Please, share.

In my brother’s case, he literally just needed a parent to pay attention to him. Possibly individual therapy. That’s it.

And you are being totally illogical here. Just because you feel there are no other alternatives does not make an abusive quasi-imprisonment ok.

Are you saying your brother went from no therapy at all while in the home directly to WT? Your parents made this decision without the guidance of any medical professional?

That is correct. Are you under the impression that there are some kind of actual standards for admission? Ha ha ha.

From my admission experience 2 years ago—yes, there are standards. Programs want successful outcomes. A cohort is both the therapist AND also the kids currently in the program. That’s why educational consultants are so important. Today, admissions is a thoughtful process about fit—fit for modality, fit with the therapist, and fit with the existing group. A child with ASD who functions 3 yrs below their chronological age will not do well in a group with kids who self medicate.

Today, a recommendation package has to be put together. If the treating therapist/psych is not submitting a recommendation, the child isn’t getting in.

Yeah I’m sure a place like Trails or Elements has a high rejection rate … these are for-profit programs, not selective schools.

I posted earlier about my mentally ill child. We could not find a well-regarded wilderness therapy that was willing to accept her. They are very selective with the kids they take.

Name the programs that declined. the problem is that there are many programs and consultants who would have accepted her.

Not PP, but Trails declined my kid. Yes, there are programs that will take a child---it's called fit. We see the same thing with local SN school applications in this area. Not every program is a fit for every child.

Trails is being sued for sexual abuse of minors. You are lucky your child was declined.

Trails: https://www.reddit.com/r/troubledteens/wiki/index/trailscarolina/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There is one poster here who has not been in this situation with their own child and continues to call people who have nonsensical. OP, I hope you got useful information. I’m not going to keep engaging with this person and I encourage others to do the same.

that’s fine b/c there are plenty of survivor accounts and investigative journalism pieces that you won’t be able to ignore. it’s not like I’m making this up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No local mental health day program wouls take my kid because she wouldnt attend voluntarily. She didnt qualify for a psych bed---once we boarded in the ER for four days waiting for a bed and the only thing abailable was the state
hospital in Staunton, which chemically restrains kids with heavy antipsychotics and discharges ASAP. Our county was wiling to pay for RTC but no one would take her. We didn't do wilderness but if you haven't been in a place where there is literally no help for your child, you have no idea.

I'm really sorry. I've had struggles with my kid but know it could be much worse. Hugs.

I would love the pp who is anti-wilderness could share some of the great alternatives available to this family. Please, share.

In my brother’s case, he literally just needed a parent to pay attention to him. Possibly individual therapy. That’s it.

And you are being totally illogical here. Just because you feel there are no other alternatives does not make an abusive quasi-imprisonment ok.

The point is that just because one program was abusive does not mean an entire industry is bad.

And, if you are right that your brother just needed attention, then it might not have been the right placement for him. But I honestly can’t imagine a sibling actually understanding the reasons for such a complicated decision and you might be minimizing your brother’s situation and blaming your parents unfairly because you miss him. I am sure that my other kids don’t know the entirety of the circumstances and events that led to me placing my son. That would have been too big of a burden for them to carry.

At this point, concluding that the “troubled teen” industry is uniformly bad is totally reasonable. That doesn’t mean there are not good wilderness programs like Outward Bound and Nolls, and medically appropriate residential therepeutic centers. But yeah, any program that has the following characteristics is bad:

- children sent against their will
- children physically restrained
- children not given physical privacy
- children not allowed to communicate freely with parents
- a “tough love” or group-confrontation like approach
- absence of correct ratio of mental health professionals
- physical punishment/discomfort used as a purported therepeutic tool
- no accounts of abusive behavior online

and of course, your are 100% wrong about my brother.

Well let’s see…my kid has spent time at Shephard Pratt—one of the most renowned mental health hospitals.

children sent against their will—-yes this happens at SP. Children/teens don’t want to go there
- children physically restrained—-yes this happens at SP. Staff are trained how to do this safely
- children not given physical privacy—-yes this happens at SP. When you are a danger to yourself and others, observation is important
- children not allowed to communicate freely with parents—-yes this happens at SP. From my sons perspective, he was not allowed to freely communicate with me—-there are phone call hours when communication is allowed.
- a “tough love” or group-confrontation like approach —-yes this happens at SP. Being accountable for your actions is part of accepting that you have a part in your behavior
- absence of correct ratio of mental health professionals—-ha ha ha. Every facility that supports mental health is faced with this issue
- physical punishment/discomfort used as a purported therepeutic tool—again this is similar to your phone call requirement. Kids in these programs are properly outfitted. Sure, camping is less comfortable than a bed but that doesn’t mean it’s bad
- no accounts of abusive behavior online—-right—because everything you read online is true

I’m still waiting for someone to post the options available to parents that have tried all the traditional modalities. Since you feel so strongly that WT is inappropriate, list the alternatives. I won’t make you go back to pg 5 so I’ll list what I’ve tried again—-community based therapy, inpatient, IOP, PHP, wrap around service, and therapeutic boarding school.

Shephard Pratt is a hospital in this area. Not a poorly regulated “wilderness therapy program” halfway across the country.

Correct. And that is my point. A highly regarded, regulated mental health hospital has all of the criteria that PP says are unacceptable.

Shephard Pratt is completely different. It does not use punishment/physical discomfort as a therapeutic tool; it is staffed by doctors; it does not isolate children; it provides medication management.

According to my kid, they did use punishment/physical discomfort. My kid was 7 during his first stay. He was punished for not taking a shower. He didn't take a shower because he didn't know how to turn it on. He didn't know how to turn it on because he was 7! I disagreed with how this was handled but I'm not posting that they unfairly punished my child. Because they put him in the quiet room for non compliance does not mean this is a poorly run program. The children and teen ward is staffed by 2 MD--only one of which is on duty on any given day and there is 1 MD on call over the weekend. Yes, there is seclusion and restraint there.

My kid does not like physical exercise. Yesterday we did a volunteer activity that required standing. After 30 min, he was complaining that his legs hurt. He certainly was not experiencing any physical discomfort yet he felt he was. The kids that go to WT are outfitted appropriately. It is not a luxurious environment and for most kids, it is different than anything they have ever experienced. That does not mean it is physically discomforting.

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Anonymous wrote:Thank you to all the parents posting about your positive experiences. I’ve been watching this thread all day. I’ve started so many responses but I just can’t seem to put into words how it feels to have no options. Even though DCUM is anon the judgement from people that cannot fathom the experiences that parents who turn to WT are going through angers me. So if you were able to post and be respectful, I appreciate it. Because I couldn’t do it.

you have options, though. there’s nothing forcing you to send your child to an abusive program.

Really? Please share the options. Of course you are aware that a parent doesn’t select WT as a first resort. So the options I’ve been through include community based therapist, inpatient therapy, PHP, IOP, wrap around in home service, and therapeutic boarding school. Please share what other options are available?

It's nonsensical to claim that your only option is an abusive option. If what you're saying is that you just need respite and wilderness is the only way you can get that where you can pay to have your child detained - that's at least honest. Given that these programs last 3 months it's absurd to claim that they are going to cure such severe mental health issues anyway. What I'm sure DOES happen is that these programs market themselves as the only option to desperate parents, though.

DP. I'm still waiting for you to list the options - please include the age/gender of your kid whose behavior was a danger to themselves and others and how the place/therapists you are recommending were able to help your kid. TIA

That is a nonsequitur. Something is not better than nothing.

In many cases it is. Where “nothing” could result in your family being killed, your child killing themselves or your child in jail, something is better than nothing.

I mean, if your motivation is literally that you need your kid to be in private detention for 3 months, at least that is honest. I hope you are informing these programs that your child is *homicidal.*

My motivation was treatment not warehousing. My son got excellent treatment and is doing well thanks to these type of programs. It was not private detention.

If he was actually homicidal, I hope he was in a locked ward with intensive services provided by an MD. Right?

Not my child but LOL! Are you kidding me? Those don't exist until your child has actually murdered someone, and then they are just locked up with very little treatment.
Do you think there are these mythical magical mental health facilities to help aggressive kids? I assure you, there are not.

Great so you think homicidal teens should be sent to wilderness programs where they are secluded with other teens and staff without MDs. Makes a ton of sense.

In a mental health hospital, the MD makes rounds. I would say my kid say saw the MD 2x/week for 10-15 each time. The nitty gritty work is done by the staff. Same at WT. And yes, there is an MD available.

Name the Wilderness Therapy program.

no...what I posted above that you quoted is what happened to my child while he was in SP. My point is that the MD does not see the child frequently at SP. At SP, the work is done by the staff. WT follows the same model.