Discontent in any kind of career

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Op here and not a troll. Life isn’t perfect, it never is. Part of DH never wanted to get married and have kids, part of him did. I put the pressure on him for marriage for 4yrs, then put the pressure on him for kids for another 3. I don’t think he would trade any of it, and he now questions why he waited for so long.

I don’t have high expectations, for better or for worse. He completed 3 degrees, has no vices, and is a successful physician and is a good supporting role on the parental front. I didn’t marry him for his cooking or housekeeping abilities. I married him because he was committed, intelligent, and interesting. And i went in blind in terms of his parenting abilities, but he does ok. Just have to make sure to stay alive until the kids are old enough to take care of themselves!

No, you weren't blind. You knew he was already someone who's judgment was off beforehand, it sounds like.

[Anonymous]

I enjoyed this article which speaks to the work as passion thing. A scam I've done a great job buying into.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/02/religion-workism-making-americans-miserable/583441/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So you have almost paid off your house but still have student loan debt??? Weird. You need a FA.

Also, if you return to full time work, PT medical role would work perfectly. Not sure if you PT at a hospital, so they give you medical insurance?

OP here - the mortgage loan interest rate was higher than the student loan interest rate, so we decided to try to pay that off first.

I hadn't thought of the medical insurance issue - ideally DH would still get medical insurance even if he works PT, but I'm not sure if he will be able to.

And ideally, I would rather work less than full-time when I return to work, but that might be just a pipe dream. DH is handicapped when it comes to household and practical stuff (cleaning, laundry, organization, budgeting) . And if he were to handle childcare - pretty much everything would be eliminated like activities, sports, snacks, crafts, playdates, toys, school events. He is a good dad, but he has extreme prioritizing where there are only a couple things that are important and everything else is completely unimportant. So for the sake of keeping an organized house and for the sake of the kids, I'd like to handle most of the house and kid stuff.

So he wants to work part-time and then do his own thing with the extra time? With little kids in the house, student debt, and college tuitions to pay down the line?

You are a way more patient wife than I would be, in this scenario.

No, I think he would attempt to do his share. But he would do it his way. I wish I was joking about him being handicapped with the household and practical things, but I'm not. It's partly his temperament (very stubborn) and also some kind of disability. With laundry, he doesn't believe in separating and will throw wool sweaters in the dryer. With cooking, he will spread raw chicken juice all over every surface of the kitchen with a soiled rag. With organization, he has never attempted any kind of organization beyond throwing things in the trash. With any kind of communication (social, school, whatever) he will ignore unless he is harassed.

This plus the wanting to change career every few years sounds a lot like ADHD. The stubbornness goes along with it. Has he ever been assessed?

I would press him pretty hard to go to therapy before changing his career. And consider what might be underlying this discontent.

He stuck with one direction in his undergrad and grad (7 years), then changed to another for his MD (8 years in school/residency and 12 years working) - he is not changing his career "every few years". I'm actually the one with ADHD.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So you have almost paid off your house but still have student loan debt??? Weird. You need a FA.

Also, if you return to full time work, PT medical role would work perfectly. Not sure if you PT at a hospital, so they give you medical insurance?

OP here - the mortgage loan interest rate was higher than the student loan interest rate, so we decided to try to pay that off first.

I hadn't thought of the medical insurance issue - ideally DH would still get medical insurance even if he works PT, but I'm not sure if he will be able to.

And ideally, I would rather work less than full-time when I return to work, but that might be just a pipe dream. DH is handicapped when it comes to household and practical stuff (cleaning, laundry, organization, budgeting) . And if he were to handle childcare - pretty much everything would be eliminated like activities, sports, snacks, crafts, playdates, toys, school events. He is a good dad, but he has extreme prioritizing where there are only a couple things that are important and everything else is completely unimportant. So for the sake of keeping an organized house and for the sake of the kids, I'd like to handle most of the house and kid stuff.

So he wants to work part-time and then do his own thing with the extra time? With little kids in the house, student debt, and college tuitions to pay down the line?

You are a way more patient wife than I would be, in this scenario.

No, I think he would attempt to do his share. But he would do it his way. I wish I was joking about him being handicapped with the household and practical things, but I'm not. It's partly his temperament (very stubborn) and also some kind of disability. With laundry, he doesn't believe in separating and will throw wool sweaters in the dryer. With cooking, he will spread raw chicken juice all over every surface of the kitchen with a soiled rag. With organization, he has never attempted any kind of organization beyond throwing things in the trash. With any kind of communication (social, school, whatever) he will ignore unless he is harassed.

This plus the wanting to change career every few years sounds a lot like ADHD. The stubbornness goes along with it. Has he ever been assessed?

I would press him pretty hard to go to therapy before changing his career. And consider what might be underlying this discontent.

He stuck with one direction in his undergrad and grad (7 years), then changed to another for his MD (8 years in school/residency and 12 years working) - he is not changing his career "every few years". I'm actually the one with ADHD.

Well he definitely has something. My money is on the spectrum or maybe BPD.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So you have almost paid off your house but still have student loan debt??? Weird. You need a FA.

Also, if you return to full time work, PT medical role would work perfectly. Not sure if you PT at a hospital, so they give you medical insurance?

OP here - the mortgage loan interest rate was higher than the student loan interest rate, so we decided to try to pay that off first.

I hadn't thought of the medical insurance issue - ideally DH would still get medical insurance even if he works PT, but I'm not sure if he will be able to.

And ideally, I would rather work less than full-time when I return to work, but that might be just a pipe dream. DH is handicapped when it comes to household and practical stuff (cleaning, laundry, organization, budgeting) . And if he were to handle childcare - pretty much everything would be eliminated like activities, sports, snacks, crafts, playdates, toys, school events. He is a good dad, but he has extreme prioritizing where there are only a couple things that are important and everything else is completely unimportant. So for the sake of keeping an organized house and for the sake of the kids, I'd like to handle most of the house and kid stuff.

So he wants to work part-time and then do his own thing with the extra time? With little kids in the house, student debt, and college tuitions to pay down the line?

You are a way more patient wife than I would be, in this scenario.

No, I think he would attempt to do his share. But he would do it his way. I wish I was joking about him being handicapped with the household and practical things, but I'm not. It's partly his temperament (very stubborn) and also some kind of disability. With laundry, he doesn't believe in separating and will throw wool sweaters in the dryer. With cooking, he will spread raw chicken juice all over every surface of the kitchen with a soiled rag. With organization, he has never attempted any kind of organization beyond throwing things in the trash. With any kind of communication (social, school, whatever) he will ignore unless he is harassed.

This plus the wanting to change career every few years sounds a lot like ADHD. The stubbornness goes along with it. Has he ever been assessed?

I would press him pretty hard to go to therapy before changing his career. And consider what might be underlying this discontent.

He stuck with one direction in his undergrad and grad (7 years), then changed to another for his MD (8 years in school/residency and 12 years working) - he is not changing his career "every few years". I'm actually the one with ADHD.

Well he definitely has something. My money is on the spectrum or maybe BPD.

He's very gifted in some areas, and has some deficiencies in other areas. I think it's common with people with very high IQ

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I enjoyed this article which speaks to the work as passion thing. A scam I've done a great job buying into.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/02/religion-workism-making-americans-miserable/583441/

This was really interesting, thanks PP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Has he thought about academics? If he likes to spend a lot of time sitting around pontificating, it may be the way to go. Clinic work can be grueling.

Do you mean teaching? I had the same idea, but he's not interested in teaching.

Not teaching per se, but yeah, working at a hospital with students and residents, doing a little writing and research. Not every doctor has to be seeing 40 people a day in fifteen minute appointments.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Has he thought about academics? If he likes to spend a lot of time sitting around pontificating, it may be the way to go. Clinic work can be grueling.

Do you mean teaching? I had the same idea, but he's not interested in teaching.

Not teaching per se, but yeah, working at a hospital with students and residents, doing a little writing and research. Not every doctor has to be seeing 40 people a day in fifteen minute appointments.

Another option is working for the government. There is a desperate need for doctors to work in numerous capacities where they do not see patients. Rather, they're called upon to use their medical knowledge to improve efficiency, advise on covered procedures, review files for benefits entitlements, etc... My father retired from seeing patients, but then reviewed disability applications for the SSA. He found it invigorating, as he needed to go back to his medical textbooks to answer many questions, and was learning (relearning?) many fundamental concepts of orthopedics, dermatology, pain management, etc... There are also jobs with the AMA, medical publishing houses, hospital administration, etc.... There are a heck of a lot of things one can do with a medical degree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^NP here but would you feel differently if they refinanced the house and pulled out $150K and paid off the student loans? Now, they have a $150K mortgage and no student loans. IMHO cutting back at work with a $150K mortgage is more than reasonable.

I am 11:38 replying - uh, no - refinance to make a sole $150k debt of the husband's a joint marital debt?

You can move the $150k around the balance sheet, but it's still on someone's balance sheet and has to be paid.

Husband was in school for 15 years and has worked all of 12.

Said it before and I'll say it again, if this couple both want this semi-retired lifestyle they need to sit down with a financial planner and figure out how to make it work.

[Anonymous]

Your husbands take come salary is depressing for me as a med student. Is he a pediatrician??

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^NP here but would you feel differently if they refinanced the house and pulled out $150K and paid off the student loans? Now, they have a $150K mortgage and no student loans. IMHO cutting back at work with a $150K mortgage is more than reasonable.

I am 11:38 replying - uh, no - refinance to make a sole $150k debt of the husband's a joint marital debt?

You can move the $150k around the balance sheet, but it's still on someone's balance sheet and has to be paid.

Husband was in school for 15 years and has worked all of 12.

Said it before and I'll say it again, if this couple both want this semi-retired lifestyle they need to sit down with a financial planner and figure out how to make it work.

PP here and I guess my point was that if OP had come on here and said all of the rest of their stats but instead of $150K in student loans they had $150K left on their mortgage I doubt there would be such an objection to the DH cutting back on hours. I think they are in a place where he could cut back to working part time now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So you have almost paid off your house but still have student loan debt??? Weird. You need a FA.

Also, if you return to full time work, PT medical role would work perfectly. Not sure if you PT at a hospital, so they give you medical insurance?

OP here - the mortgage loan interest rate was higher than the student loan interest rate, so we decided to try to pay that off first.

I hadn't thought of the medical insurance issue - ideally DH would still get medical insurance even if he works PT, but I'm not sure if he will be able to.

And ideally, I would rather work less than full-time when I return to work, but that might be just a pipe dream. DH is handicapped when it comes to household and practical stuff (cleaning, laundry, organization, budgeting) . And if he were to handle childcare - pretty much everything would be eliminated like activities, sports, snacks, crafts, playdates, toys, school events. He is a good dad, but he has extreme prioritizing where there are only a couple things that are important and everything else is completely unimportant. So for the sake of keeping an organized house and for the sake of the kids, I'd like to handle most of the house and kid stuff.

But mortgage loan debt is way more deductible, as well as dischargable in bankrupt, so you should have paid off student loan (which is weird that your student loans were less than 4%).

Yes, you need to think about medical insurance if he goes part time — esp if you are both part time

You need a financial advisor desperately. You seem a little uninformed and it sounds like your DH doesn’t care.

The school loan was consolidated at below 3% interest. I remember researching the issue, and it was kind of a wash between the two.

Well it is very unusual to have a fixed 3% interest rate on 5-6 figure student debt, but sure.

But if it was a wash, you really should have paid off student loan since that is not dischargeable -- so when you all end up in the hospital for 6 months after salmonella poisoning and have to declare bankruptcy you could get the mortgage loan cleared and start fresh. Though honestly, not the least of your problems.

you don't work now, DH is MIA for household stuff, and he wants to cut back his time to garden and contemplate the meaning of life? Hopefully he was some high paid specialty, so you raked in a couple of $1M and can now chart a new life forward?

Have you considered moving? I have a buddy who works in rural Louisiaina, and makes gobs of money (like $400k) b/c they are desperate for medical care in the sticks. I have no doubt he can pull down a great salary for part time work, and then have low COL and high income so everyone is happy.

NP here -- IDK why you're convinced low interest rates aren't possible. This guy doesn't sound like he graduated now. Sounds like he's been practicing for at least 10+ years. My law school loans 13 yrs ago were consolidated at 2.87% - six figure debt. Held on to those for a LONG time as most years I was making more than said 2.87% in the market. So yeah it does happen, it just depends on when you graduated.

[Anonymous]

So he’s 45ish, still has a 150k in student loans, makes 180ish max, thinks he should get to retire, but you’d have to go work FT to make $$ since he thinks he can stop making $$, and his time at home would all “me time” spent gardening and he wouldn’t cook or clean or do laundry or go grocery shopping or take the kids anyplace or give them snacks because he’s too “disabled” for that and it interrupts his “me time”? Damn. How desperate were you to marry a doctor??

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So he’s 45ish, still has a 150k in student loans, makes 180ish max, thinks he should get to retire, but you’d have to go work FT to make $$ since he thinks he can stop making $$, and his time at home would all “me time” spent gardening and he wouldn’t cook or clean or do laundry or go grocery shopping or take the kids anyplace or give them snacks because he’s too “disabled” for that and it interrupts his “me time”? Damn. How desperate were you to marry a doctor??

That doesn't even remotely reflect what OP has been saying in this thread. Did you even read the thread?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So he’s 45ish, still has a 150k in student loans, makes 180ish max, thinks he should get to retire, but you’d have to go work FT to make $$ since he thinks he can stop making $$, and his time at home would all “me time” spent gardening and he wouldn’t cook or clean or do laundry or go grocery shopping or take the kids anyplace or give them snacks because he’s too “disabled” for that and it interrupts his “me time”? Damn. How desperate were you to marry a doctor??

That doesn't even remotely reflect what OP has been saying in this thread. Did you even read the thread?

Yeah it does. Everything comes from OP’s facts. What part is false?