The Rush to Judge Ilhan Omar

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In America, is there space to be anti-Israel and not be anti-semetic? From the controversy surrounding Rep. Omar's comments, it appears to me that the only choice for Americans is to be pro-Israel, or be labeled anti-semetic. Lastly, not all jewish people are semetic. Judaism is a religion, not an ethnicity. Just because Ivanka is jewish, dioesn't mean she's semetic.

Judaism, according to some, is an ethnic religion.

It is a religion based on the relationship of a people to G-d. A concept alien to Christianity, and handled somewhat differently in Islam.

That gentiles are debating what Judaism is should I hope make people uncomfortable. Peace means Jews stop questioning Palestinian identity, and Palestinians and their supporters stop questioning Jewish identity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In America, is there space to be anti-Israel and not be anti-semetic? From the controversy surrounding Rep. Omar's comments, it appears to me that the only choice for Americans is to be pro-Israel, or be labeled anti-semetic. Lastly, not all jewish people are semetic. Judaism is a religion, not an ethnicity. Just because Ivanka is jewish, dioesn't mean she's semetic.

Right. Sort of like, I’m opposed to gay marriage but I don’t think that makes me homophobic or “hateful.”

The reality is that all the people who care enough to be anti-Israel, to even bother being concerned about issues pertaining to Israel, are motivated by anti-Semitism.

There really isn't anyone who just decides they have some animus towards Israel, but isn't anti-Semitic.

That comes from both the Left and the Right.

Omar and her ilk want to wipe Israel off the face of the map. That means killing lots and lots of Jews. That's the official position of all entities which represent the so called Palestinian people--Hezbollah, Fatah, Hamas, you name it.

So yes--anti-Israel = anti-Semitic.

There are no exceptions.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote: Her tweet about the Benjamins

And her apology on that was accepted by the House leadership, who seemed prepared to move on. But then Omar came back with MORE comments.

Note, she made problematic comments several years before being elected to Congress. Also while running for Congress she disavowed support for BDS, but then changed her mind after being elected.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am sick of hearing every criticism of Israel or those who demand unconditional support for Israel recast as an anti-Semitic “trope.” It is largely simply an effort to silence criticism or debate. Omar has the same right to speak out as every other member of Congress, including older Jewish members in their 60s and 70s.

Your first sentence is simply not true. It is certainly the case that not every criticism of Israel is equivalent to anti-semitism. But some criticism of Israel is in fact grounded in anti-semitism.

Just like those that state that every person who criticizes Israel is anti-semitic, are dead wrong, so too are those who say that to be anti-Israel (or anti-zionist) never has anything to do with anti-semitism. We don't live in a world of absolutes.

You just rephrased what the PP said, after saying it's simply not true.

Uh, not quite. PP literally said "I am sick of hearing every criticism of Israel... recast as an anti-Semitic trope." That's an absolute statement that is not true. Not every criticism is recast as anti-semitic.

Hm. How about I just redirect you to this post downthread. It obliterated any point you thought you made:

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/60/789616.page#14646236

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In America, is there space to be anti-Israel and not be anti-semetic? From the controversy surrounding Rep. Omar's comments, it appears to me that the only choice for Americans is to be pro-Israel, or be labeled anti-semetic. Lastly, not all jewish people are semetic. Judaism is a religion, not an ethnicity. Just because Ivanka is jewish, dioesn't mean she's semetic.

Right. Sort of like, I’m opposed to gay marriage but I don’t think that makes me homophobic or “hateful.”

The reality is that all the people who care enough to be anti-Israel, to even bother being concerned about issues pertaining to Israel, are motivated by anti-Semitism.

There really isn't anyone who just decides they have some animus towards Israel, but isn't anti-Semitic.

That comes from both the Left and the Right.

Omar and her ilk want to wipe Israel off the face of the map. That means killing lots and lots of Jews. That's the official position of all entities which represent the so called Palestinian people--Hezbollah, Fatah, Hamas, you name it.

So yes--anti-Israel = anti-Semitic.

There are no exceptions.

This is completely wrong and does long term damage to Israeli and Jewish interests. Whether you choose to acknowledge it or not, 2.5 million Palestinians live under Israeli control in the West Bank and another 1.7 million in Gaza with Israel's boot on their necks. Support of their rights does not make one anti-Semitic. Omar has never suggested that Israel should be wiped from the map. That is not the official position of Fatah or the PLO. You are spreading misinformation and lies.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote: Her tweet about the Benjamins

And her apology on that was accepted by the House leadership, who seemed prepared to move on. But then Omar came back with MORE comments.

Note, she made problematic comments several years before being elected to Congress. Also while running for Congress she disavowed support for BDS, but then changed her mind after being elected.

Please read the first post of this thread where I show that her most recent comments have been mischaracterized. Those remarks should not be seen as problematic.

Though she criticized BDS during the primary, she did not disavow support for it.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In America, is there space to be anti-Israel and not be anti-semetic? From the controversy surrounding Rep. Omar's comments, it appears to me that the only choice for Americans is to be pro-Israel, or be labeled anti-semetic. Lastly, not all jewish people are semetic. Judaism is a religion, not an ethnicity. Just because Ivanka is jewish, dioesn't mean she's semetic.

Right. Sort of like, I’m opposed to gay marriage but I don’t think that makes me homophobic or “hateful.”

The reality is that all the people who care enough to be anti-Israel, to even bother being concerned about issues pertaining to Israel, are motivated by anti-Semitism.

There really isn't anyone who just decides they have some animus towards Israel, but isn't anti-Semitic.

That comes from both the Left and the Right.

Omar and her ilk want to wipe Israel off the face of the map. That means killing lots and lots of Jews. That's the official position of all entities which represent the so called Palestinian people--Hezbollah, Fatah, Hamas, you name it.

So yes--anti-Israel = anti-Semitic.

There are no exceptions.

This is completely wrong and does long term damage to Israeli and Jewish interests. Whether you choose to acknowledge it or not, 2.5 million Palestinians live under Israeli control in the West Bank and another 1.7 million in Gaza with Israel's boot on their necks. Support of their rights does not make one anti-Semitic. Omar has never suggested that Israel should be wiped from the map. That is not the official position of Fatah or the PLO. You are spreading misinformation and lies.

different PP than the one you are responding to

Fatah officially believes in a two state solution. As does, BTW, Likud and BiBi. Both have done things that have made achieving a two state soloution more difficult, IMO

That Gaza, where there are no Israeli boots on the ground, and no Israeli settlements, all having removed by the IDF under Sharon, and where "Occupation" is a matter of a continued sea blockade necessitated by the shipment of rockets to Hamas, is equated with the situation on the West Bank, is part of why even nominally pro two state leftist critics of Israel are not taken seriously in Israel, even by the mainstream left.


By the way, do you have a link to where Omar says she supports a two state solution, with one Palestinian state and one Jewish state?

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:By the way, do you have a link to where Omar says she supports a two state solution, with one Palestinian state and one Jewish state?

https://twitter.com/ilhanmn/status/1026630127206256642

I support a two-state solution. The Jewish people have a right to safety and Palestinians have a right to their homes. Conflict must be resolved through a lens of justice and for this to happen, all voices must be brought to the table. #MN05

https://dailycaller.com/2019/02/28/ilhan-omar-israel-palestine-two/

"I believe in a two-state solution. I think it is important for there to be the existence of two states that allow both of the peoples that are involved to have their own sanctuaries, their own states."

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote: Her tweet about the Benjamins

And her apology on that was accepted by the House leadership, who seemed prepared to move on. But then Omar came back with MORE comments.

Note, she made problematic comments several years before being elected to Congress. Also while running for Congress she disavowed support for BDS, but then changed her mind after being elected.

Please read the first post of this thread where I show that her most recent comments have been mischaracterized. Those remarks should not be seen as problematic.

Though she criticized BDS during the primary, she did not disavow support for it.

She has a long preface that does not logically lead to the statement about allegiance (except via some kind of word salad) and does not excuse it. We would not accept a preface like that as justifying the final statement from Trump or other rightwingers. I do not on this.

And I guess she did not explicity disavow it - IIRC when asked if she supported it, she criticized it and expressed no support. Clearly she was trying to leave the impression she opposed it.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:She has a long preface that does not logically lead to the statement about allegiance (except via some kind of word salad) and does not excuse it. We would not accept a preface like that as justifying the final statement from Trump or other rightwingers. I do not on this.

Her statement about allegiance was not an accusation of dual loyalty by Jews, but about her perception that non-Jews like her are being pressured to support to Israel. It is a direct result of the BDS debate which put Israel's interests ahead of US citizens' 1st amendment rights.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:By the way, do you have a link to where Omar says she supports a two state solution, with one Palestinian state and one Jewish state?

https://twitter.com/ilhanmn/status/1026630127206256642

I support a two-state solution. The Jewish people have a right to safety and Palestinians have a right to their homes. Conflict must be resolved through a lens of justice and for this to happen, all voices must be brought to the table. #MN05

https://dailycaller.com/2019/02/28/ilhan-omar-israel-palestine-two/

"I believe in a two-state solution. I think it is important for there to be the existence of two states that allow both of the peoples that are involved to have their own sanctuaries, their own states."

You ommitted

Now, if there are Palestinians and Israelis that are interested in having a one-state solution that involves both of them, then that is a decision that they get to make and something that they get to advocate for,” she continued. “But I’m not one that sees there to be a solution that will involve one. I think the only solution that works right now is to advocate for two.”

95% of the minority of Jewish Israelis who support a one state solution in fact DO want an apartheid solution in which Palestinians are disenfranchised, or even expelled. The only one state solution that I think Omar would consider consistent with human rights is one 98% of Jewish Israelis (and many Druse Israelis) oppose and will never accept. This is not serious, and calls into question the sincerity of the earlier statement.

She is being to clever by half.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In America, is there space to be anti-Israel and not be anti-semetic? From the controversy surrounding Rep. Omar's comments, it appears to me that the only choice for Americans is to be pro-Israel, or be labeled anti-semetic. Lastly, not all jewish people are semetic. Judaism is a religion, not an ethnicity. Just because Ivanka is jewish, dioesn't mean she's semetic.

Right. Sort of like, I’m opposed to gay marriage but I don’t think that makes me homophobic or “hateful.”

The reality is that all the people who care enough to be anti-Israel, to even bother being concerned about issues pertaining to Israel, are motivated by anti-Semitism.

There really isn't anyone who just decides they have some animus towards Israel, but isn't anti-Semitic.

That comes from both the Left and the Right.

Omar and her ilk want to wipe Israel off the face of the map. That means killing lots and lots of Jews. That's the official position of all entities which represent the so called Palestinian people--Hezbollah, Fatah, Hamas, you name it.

So yes--anti-Israel = anti-Semitic.

There are no exceptions.

You really should keep your regressively moronic ideas to yourself....you’re giving Jews a bad name.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:By the way, do you have a link to where Omar says she supports a two state solution, with one Palestinian state and one Jewish state?

https://twitter.com/ilhanmn/status/1026630127206256642

I support a two-state solution. The Jewish people have a right to safety and Palestinians have a right to their homes. Conflict must be resolved through a lens of justice and for this to happen, all voices must be brought to the table. #MN05

https://dailycaller.com/2019/02/28/ilhan-omar-israel-palestine-two/

"I believe in a two-state solution. I think it is important for there to be the existence of two states that allow both of the peoples that are involved to have their own sanctuaries, their own states."

You ommitted

Now, if there are Palestinians and Israelis that are interested in having a one-state solution that involves both of them, then that is a decision that they get to make and something that they get to advocate for,” she continued. “But I’m not one that sees there to be a solution that will involve one. I think the only solution that works right now is to advocate for two.”

95% of the minority of Jewish Israelis who support a one state solution in fact DO want an apartheid solution in which Palestinians are disenfranchised, or even expelled. The only one state solution that I think Omar would consider consistent with human rights is one 98% of Jewish Israelis (and many Druse Israelis) oppose and will never accept. This is not serious, and calls into question the sincerity of the earlier statement.

She is being to clever by half.

See the bolded. She supports a two-state solution. In the unlikely even that the two parties were to agree on a one-state solution, she would obviously support it. But, as she says, she doesn't see that happening.

[Anonymous]

https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/muslim-trailblazer-ilhan-omar-admits-she-backs-bds-1.6654634

a fuller discussion of her remarks during the campaign

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am sick of hearing every criticism of Israel or those who demand unconditional support for Israel recast as an anti-Semitic “trope.” It is largely simply an effort to silence criticism or debate. Omar has the same right to speak out as every other member of Congress, including older Jewish members in their 60s and 70s.

Your first sentence is simply not true. It is certainly the case that not every criticism of Israel is equivalent to anti-semitism. But some criticism of Israel is in fact grounded in anti-semitism.

Just like those that state that every person who criticizes Israel is anti-semitic, are dead wrong, so too are those who say that to be anti-Israel (or anti-zionist) never has anything to do with anti-semitism. We don't live in a world of absolutes.

You just rephrased what the PP said, after saying it's simply not true.

Uh, not quite. PP literally said "I am sick of hearing every criticism of Israel... recast as an anti-Semitic trope." That's an absolute statement that is not true. Not every criticism is recast as anti-semitic.

Hm. How about I just redirect you to this post downthread. It obliterated any point you thought you made:

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/60/789616.page#14646236

Dude. that is one person's opinion. Of course some people are going to be binary (and wrong) about this topic. But not everyone feels that way, and thus not every criticism of Israel is recast as anti-semitic. Frankly your spin on it is just as big a problem as those who equate every anti-israel sentiment with anti-semitism. that was the real point of my post.