Expensive wine is gross and overrated

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Drink what you like. Certainly. However just because in your limited experience you have not personally tasted a >$20 bottle of wine you personally liked to enough that you would spend your money on it doesn’t mean that no such thing exists nor that others shouldn’t also....drink what they like. It necessarily goes both ways, no?

I have tasted good in expensive wines and good expensive wines. I have tasted bad inexpensive wines and bad expensive wines. Both good and bad come in a range of prices. I don’t think there beat <$20 bottle I have tasted is comparable at all to, say, the best >$100 wine so to me sometimes a more expensive bottle is worth it.

I feel like both sides of this debate are misconstruing the studies. They don't stand for the proposition that certain expensive wines are not "winners," and it may be that most of the best wines are indeed "expensive," however that is defined. And of course any expert can distinguish between types of wine, regardless. They just indicate that on average expensive wines were not rated more highly than cheap wines. And I'm pretty sure that even "cheap" was >$10 so no one was talking about 2 buck chuck. It really just means that PPs that claim that their taste buds just cannot bear any $15 swill and "you must spend at least $50 for good wine" are full of it!

I am the poster you are quoting and I think arguing with. Except we aren’t actually arguing because I’m not talking about “studies” I am responding to OP who says there is “literally no reason” to ever spend more than $10 on a bottle of wine because wines costing more are “gross” universally. That simply is not true. I’d even say the OP saying all wine >$10 not being worry is right in line with someone saying they can only beat to consume wine at $50 or more per bottle. The only conclusion to me would be neither actually knows about wine. “Good” and “bad” wines exist at virtually all price points as knowledge get good and bad are subjective matters of taste.

[Anonymous]

Many of the $50+ wines are small production, with less consistency due to growing conditions (primarily due to weather, but also changes in vineyard management practices) and experimentation in the wine making process (barrel selection and blending approach). A lot of people who enjoy wine appreciate and look forward to experiencing the variation across vintages. It’s what makes the hobby interesting! Also keep in mind that in Napa and Sonoma, the cost of goods will be much higher, driven by more manual processes (fruit is hand harvested and for some really $$ bottles, extensively hand sorted), high labor costs (at least $18/hr and increasingly offering more benefits in a competitive labor market), sustainability efforts, and small scale ordering. Your $10 Argentinian wine pays laborers significantly less; the $10 CA Central Valley wine was harvested by machine and is less nuanced because the mass market craves consistency.

It’s fine for you not to prioritize spending on this type of wine; but just as it would be narrow-minded to criticize the artists and collectors who support art beyond IKEA prints, don’t knock those of us who support, engage, and create within the wine community! Consider it potable art.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op again.

While you do not need to pay for extra wine, you should at least have a basic knowledge of wines for interacting with wine snobs..

My mom is kind of a wine snob and my MIL likes almost over the top sweet wines and I can sense the silent judgement

Or we could just not care what the wine snobs think. Or what any kind of snobs think, for that matter.

I agree with you in principle, but there are certain circumstances where it may be to your advantage to do this

[Anonymous]

I once made an atttempt to drink my way up the ladder of Merlot's starting near the bottom.

The stuff under $6 was blah. I would NOT say undrinkable (I mean welch's grape juice is not undrinkable) but of zero interest. From $6 to $10 bucks, it started to show hints of something more. At $10 to $15 there were some very pleasant wines, with what seemed to me like some complexity.

Now that was almost 10 years ago, and there has been inflation. OTOH Merlot is not the cheapest varietal (though of course its more economical than Cabernet or Pinot Noir)

I have since shifted more to craft beers which I find more economical (esp as my SO does not drink so a full bottle of wine is not the most economical way to sample things) and I enjoy the scene.

I still have no difficulty enjoying your standard $10 bottle in most varietals.

I did once have a taste of a $40 a bottle Bordeaux. It was really good. My suspicion is that the price point where quality stops improving and it becomes nothing but snobbery is north of $40, at least for Cabernet's.

OTOH it wasn't so good that I would spend that much or more regularly unless I did have money to burn.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Many of the $50+ wines are small production, with less consistency due to growing conditions (primarily due to weather, but also changes in vineyard management practices) and experimentation in the wine making process (barrel selection and blending approach). A lot of people who enjoy wine appreciate and look forward to experiencing the variation across vintages. It’s what makes the hobby interesting! Also keep in mind that in Napa and Sonoma, the cost of goods will be much higher, driven by more manual processes (fruit is hand harvested and for some really $$ bottles, extensively hand sorted), high labor costs (at least $18/hr and increasingly offering more benefits in a competitive labor market), sustainability efforts, and small scale ordering. Your $10 Argentinian wine pays laborers significantly less; the $10 CA Central Valley wine was harvested by machine and is less nuanced because the mass market craves consistency.

It’s fine for you not to prioritize spending on this type of wine; but just as it would be narrow-minded to criticize the artists and collectors who support art beyond IKEA prints, don’t knock those of us who support, engage, and create within the wine community! Consider it potable art.

I think this is a really good point. Up in the $50 + realm its probably not so much about consistency quality, as artistry, with efforts that can succeed or fail.

I think the reality is that most people who do like and appreciate good wine though, are more interested in a good bottle than in the hobbyist afficianado ('snob') aspect. And depending on the varietal they can do pretty well from $10 to $40.

Of course as a market reality, IIRC most bottles of wine sold in the USA are under $10. Not $20 Pinots, or $15 Cabs or $10 bottle of some newly hot south american varietal - but bottles of mass produced bland stuff with animals on the label. To those folks people drinking a $15 Sauvignon Blanc are "wine snobs".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op again.

While you do not need to pay for extra wine, you should at least have a basic knowledge of wines for interacting with wine snobs..

My mom is kind of a wine snob and my MIL likes almost over the top sweet wines and I can sense the silent judgement

Or we could just not care what the wine snobs think. Or what any kind of snobs think, for that matter.

I agree with you in principle, but there are certain circumstances where it may be to your advantage to do this

OP, my husband collects wines and is a wine snob. I like wine fine but don't know anything about it and have no interest in digging deep into the topic. I also like cocktails. My husband gets jokingly annoyed because he says I have a much better palate than he does. He has tried to "catch me out" a number of times and I'm always consistent in what I find good and not good, what I like and what I don't like. Because I don't care, I will deem a "high end" wine to be not to my liking, and no harm done; if there's a cheap wine that I like, I'm ecstatic because I'd prefer to spend less money on wine than spend more money. If your MIL likes sweet wines, good for her. If your mother is judging your MIL, then that shows your mother is insecure and over-invested in the idea of "Good Wines." Wine should not be made into a fetish, in my opinion. In the end it's just a beverage that gets pissed out of our system.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I once made an atttempt to drink my way up the ladder of Merlot's starting near the bottom.

The stuff under $6 was blah. I would NOT say undrinkable (I mean welch's grape juice is not undrinkable) but of zero interest. From $6 to $10 bucks, it started to show hints of something more. At $10 to $15 there were some very pleasant wines, with what seemed to me like some complexity.

Now that was almost 10 years ago, and there has been inflation. OTOH Merlot is not the cheapest varietal (though of course its more economical than Cabernet or Pinot Noir)

I have since shifted more to craft beers which I find more economical (esp as my SO does not drink so a full bottle of wine is not the most economical way to sample things) and I enjoy the scene.

I still have no difficulty enjoying your standard $10 bottle in most varietals.

I did once have a taste of a $40 a bottle Bordeaux. It was really good. My suspicion is that the price point where quality stops improving and it becomes nothing but snobbery is north of $40, at least for Cabernet's.

OTOH it wasn't so good that I would spend that much or more regularly unless I did have money to burn.

You may enjoy finding a wine club! For not too much money, you all pitch in and bring bottles, and taste them all.