Blair pyramid or Kennedy pyramid

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One way to better understand the quality of education of one school or another is to perform more granular apples to apple analysis. Simple averages for standardized state test that GS uses for its ratings only serves to identify which high-schools draw a higher percentage of affluent kids. A better approach is to look at the granular data. When you isolate for race which is proxy a for socioeconomic status there is not much of a disparity between the performance of kids of the same backgrounds across these schools. For example, when you compare average SAT scores for MCPS schools for a larger demographic common to all these schools the GS narrative falls apart and it becomes clear they're not all that different.

Blair 1326
Walter Johnson 1275
Wooton 1262
Churchill 1257
Wheaton 1173
Einstein 1148
Kennedy 1088

https://montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/sharedaccountability/reports/2017/1771102HS%20Princ_SAT%20Partic_Perf%20Class%20of%202017.pdf

This is really helpful. Thanks!

But the number are not helpful unless you are realiziing that standardized test score only correlate with parent income and eduation..one should not assume that Blair has better teachers or classes..only more advantaged students. Your individual child will not get a better education just because the school has higher scores.

We've had this debate before, but Kennedy does abysmally on AP scores, which presumably do reflect teaching (only Watkins Mill HS had fewer passing scores in 2017).

No..like all the other test scores, it represents the level the kids were at when they entered the class which is mostly determined by family income.

So OP should want to send her children to a school where only 35% of those who were deemed by the school to be ready for AP instruction (already a very small minority of the school population) can pass the national exam? Yet it is a "good" school? Even Wheaton passes 61% vs. Kennedy's 36%. Looking only at FARMS students, 65% at Blair pass one exam, while at Kennedy 45% pass an exam.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One way to better understand the quality of education of one school or another is to perform more granular apples to apple analysis. Simple averages for standardized state test that GS uses for its ratings only serves to identify which high-schools draw a higher percentage of affluent kids. A better approach is to look at the granular data. When you isolate for race which is proxy a for socioeconomic status there is not much of a disparity between the performance of kids of the same backgrounds across these schools. For example, when you compare average SAT scores for MCPS schools for a larger demographic common to all these schools the GS narrative falls apart and it becomes clear they're not all that different.

Blair 1326
Walter Johnson 1275
Wooton 1262
Churchill 1257
Wheaton 1173
Einstein 1148
Kennedy 1088

https://montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/sharedaccountability/reports/2017/1771102HS%20Princ_SAT%20Partic_Perf%20Class%20of%202017.pdf

When most of the few white kids at Blair are in the magnet and from OOB, does that misleading statistic about there scores really speak to the experience of the other 3000 kids who score closer to the bottom of the county and live among pockets of concentrated poverty. That is the real blair, some math wiz stem kid from Chevy Chase was going to do great no matter where he took the test.

Me personally I’ll take a school full of that peer group compared to driving across town to a sketchy area with only a couple class rooms that most of the local kids don’t have access to. You don’t seem to be proclaiming that peer group’s SAT average??? Let me give you a hint, it’s really low but that is the true Blair peer group experience.

There was a post here a few weeks back that crunched the actual numbers for this. The impact of the magnet on this cohorts average wasn’t significant. At Blair, there are 100 juniors in the magnet of which fewer than 80 are from out of boundary largely because of the 25 person set aside at TPMS which gives the in-boundary kids a leg up. Anyway, about 40% of those 75-80 students belong to this cohort group. This boosted the SAT average from 1296 to 1326. Point being even without the magnet in a head to head comparison Blair outperforms any W by a statistically significant margin. It's hard to argue with facts, but I'm guessing you'll try.

Here’s a ballpark attempt to eliminate the out of boundary magnet scores from Blair’s SAT average for the largest common cohort.

1526 Blair Magnet SAT average public knowledge
1326 Blair SAT average score for common cohort from report
250 total number of kids from the cohort that took SAT according to report
32 number of OOB magnet kids from the cohort that took the SAT (40% of OOB 80 = 32)
where “x” is Blair’s in boundary SAT average for largest common cohort

(250 - 32) / 250 = 87% non-magnet cohort total
13% magnet % of cohort total

0.85x + 0.13 * 1526 = 1326
0.87x + 198 = 1326
0.9x = 1326 – 198
x = (1326 – 198) / 0.87 = 1296 SAT average without

Very helpful analysis

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One way to better understand the quality of education of one school or another is to perform more granular apples to apple analysis. Simple averages for standardized state test that GS uses for its ratings only serves to identify which high-schools draw a higher percentage of affluent kids. A better approach is to look at the granular data. When you isolate for race which is proxy a for socioeconomic status there is not much of a disparity between the performance of kids of the same backgrounds across these schools. For example, when you compare average SAT scores for MCPS schools for a larger demographic common to all these schools the GS narrative falls apart and it becomes clear they're not all that different.

Blair 1326
Walter Johnson 1275
Wooton 1262
Churchill 1257
Wheaton 1173
Einstein 1148
Kennedy 1088

https://montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/sharedaccountability/reports/2017/1771102HS%20Princ_SAT%20Partic_Perf%20Class%20of%202017.pdf

It might help to know how good or bad these mean SAT scores are so you can judge whether the differences in performance are big or small. These scores correspond to the following percentiles for the 2016 SAT exam (which is the one most students in the class of 2017 took per the report cited by the PP).

Blair 1326 (88th percentile)
Walter Johnson 1275 (82nd percentile)
Wooton 1262 (81st percentile)
Churchill 1257 (80th percentile)
Wheaton 1173 (67th percentile)
Einstein 1148 (62nd percentile)
Kennedy 1088 (50th percentile)

Regarding The PP who did the analysis of Blair SAT scores minus the magnet students. Very interesting analysis and as you point out makes Blair comparable to the W schools and far ahead of the other DCC schools.

It’s pretty clear it makes the W parents upset but it rings true nonetheless.

[Anonymous]

I don't think we need to drag W parents into this, although I suspect some of them aren't acquitting themselves particularly well on this thread, or any thread about the DCC.

Blair is a strong school, but I suspect that most kids can get a great education at any MCPS high school. By that age, there is enough tracking and differentiation that even a school with a high needs population will still have high fliers.

There will also be kids at any school who will fail, and for whom the temptations of that school are a bad fit for their own weaknesses. So, a kid prone to anxiety and unhealthy competition could easily stumble and fail in a high-pressure school, just as a kid prone to making poor choices in friendships is more likely to struggle in a school where there are more troubled kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't think we need to drag W parents into this, although I suspect some of them aren't acquitting themselves particularly well on this thread, or any thread about the DCC.

Blair is a strong school, but I suspect that most kids can get a great education at any MCPS high school. By that age, there is enough tracking and differentiation that even a school with a high needs population will still have high fliers.

There will also be kids at any school who will fail, and for whom the temptations of that school are a bad fit for their own weaknesses. So, a kid prone to anxiety and unhealthy competition could easily stumble and fail in a high-pressure school, just as a kid prone to making poor choices in friendships is more likely to struggle in a school where there are more troubled kids.

W parents bring themselves into this when they consistently deride and dismiss Silver Spring schools. I genuinely appreciate the PP analysis who set the record straight.

Personally, I agree any MCPS school of 2000+ kids has rigorous classes and a sufficiently large high-achieving cohort that any kid who is interested can do well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't think we need to drag W parents into this, although I suspect some of them aren't acquitting themselves particularly well on this thread, or any thread about the DCC.

Blair is a strong school, but I suspect that most kids can get a great education at any MCPS high school. By that age, there is enough tracking and differentiation that even a school with a high needs population will still have high fliers.

There will also be kids at any school who will fail, and for whom the temptations of that school are a bad fit for their own weaknesses. So, a kid prone to anxiety and unhealthy competition could easily stumble and fail in a high-pressure school, just as a kid prone to making poor choices in friendships is more likely to struggle in a school where there are more troubled kids.

No need to drag them in; they always drag themselves in.
The mention of Blair drives them crazy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think we need to drag W parents into this, although I suspect some of them aren't acquitting themselves particularly well on this thread, or any thread about the DCC.

Blair is a strong school, but I suspect that most kids can get a great education at any MCPS high school. By that age, there is enough tracking and differentiation that even a school with a high needs population will still have high fliers.

There will also be kids at any school who will fail, and for whom the temptations of that school are a bad fit for their own weaknesses. So, a kid prone to anxiety and unhealthy competition could easily stumble and fail in a high-pressure school, just as a kid prone to making poor choices in friendships is more likely to struggle in a school where there are more troubled kids.

No need to drag them in; they always drag themselves in.
The mention of Blair drives them crazy.

Exactly. when the title of the thread is Blair pyramid or Kennedy pyramid, why do people with no experience or first hand knowledge of those period have to get involved? No one invited them to this party.But they can't help keep themselves from being nasty.

[Anonymous]

There is zero in the PP's "analysis" that shows Blair is superior to Einstein, Wheaton, Northwood or Kennedy. Zippo. Her small sampling of cherry picked just 100 students out of almost 3K is laughable. Her math in taking a "ball park" estimate to then further reduce the students removing magnet kids is just as flawed. She attacks any thread that promotes any DCC school over Blair and then quickly responds to herself in agreement in the EXACT same way every time.

Blair's CAP and SMAC program is excellent but it doesn't belong to Blair, it is just housed there. The OP's kids are just as likely to get in from Kennedy as they are from Blair. OP's kids may turn out to have interests that send them to Einstein or Wheaton. OP's kids may choose one of the program's at Kennedy. Since there is no value in non-magnet Blair over Kennedy (beyond the desperation of a math challenged loon) why shouldn't the OP buy the nicer house up in the Kennedy cluster.

[Anonymous]

I don’t know anyone who has chosen Kennedy in the lottery who was not already zoned for Kennedy. I do know kids in our neighborhood who attend the other 4 DCC schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One way to better understand the quality of education of one school or another is to perform more granular apples to apple analysis. Simple averages for standardized state test that GS uses for its ratings only serves to identify which high-schools draw a higher percentage of affluent kids. A better approach is to look at the granular data. When you isolate for race which is proxy a for socioeconomic status there is not much of a disparity between the performance of kids of the same backgrounds across these schools. For example, when you compare average SAT scores for MCPS schools for a larger demographic common to all these schools the GS narrative falls apart and it becomes clear they're not all that different.

Blair 1326
Walter Johnson 1275
Wooton 1262
Churchill 1257
Wheaton 1173
Einstein 1148
Kennedy 1088

https://montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/sharedaccountability/reports/2017/1771102HS%20Princ_SAT%20Partic_Perf%20Class%20of%202017.pdf

When most of the few white kids at Blair are in the magnet and from OOB, does that misleading statistic about there scores really speak to the experience of the other 3000 kids who score closer to the bottom of the county and live among pockets of concentrated poverty. That is the real blair, some math wiz stem kid from Chevy Chase was going to do great no matter where he took the test.

Me personally I’ll take a school full of that peer group compared to driving across town to a sketchy area with only a couple class rooms that most of the local kids don’t have access to. You don’t seem to be proclaiming that peer group’s SAT average??? Let me give you a hint, it’s really low but that is the true Blair peer group experience.

There was a post here a few weeks back that crunched the actual numbers for this. The impact of the magnet on this cohorts average wasn’t significant. At Blair, there are 100 juniors in the magnet of which fewer than 80 are from out of boundary largely because of the 25 person set aside at TPMS which gives the in-boundary kids a leg up. Anyway, about 40% of those 75-80 students belong to this cohort group. This boosted the SAT average from 1296 to 1326. Point being even without the magnet in a head to head comparison Blair outperforms any W by a statistically significant margin. It's hard to argue with facts, but I'm guessing you'll try.

Here’s a ballpark attempt to eliminate the out of boundary magnet scores from Blair’s SAT average for the largest common cohort.

1526 Blair Magnet SAT average public knowledge
1326 Blair SAT average score for common cohort from report
250 total number of kids from the cohort that took SAT according to report
32 number of OOB magnet kids from the cohort that took the SAT (40% of OOB 80 = 32)
where “x” is Blair’s in boundary SAT average for largest common cohort

(250 - 32) / 250 = 87% non-magnet cohort total
13% magnet % of cohort total

0.87x + 0.13 * 1526 = 1326
0.87x + 198 = 1326
0.87x = 1326 – 198
x = (1326 – 198) / 0.87 = 1296 SAT average without

Very helpful analysis

+10

[Anonymous]

....and she is back replying to her own flawed analysis. She's no different than Trump constantly insisting that his crowds were bigger than Obama. Blair's magnet program pulls from the entire county and the humanities magnet pulls from the entire DCC. There is no advantage to being in-boundary. In fact, some areas of Northwood are closer to Blair than in-bound areas for Blair.

The rest of Blair is no different than any other DCC school. In some ways its worse due to overcrowding, being so large and too much focus on the magnets. At least the other DCC schools focus on all their students not just the ones from OOB.

[Anonymous]

OP - one thing to keep in mind is that this board is over represented by parents and staff from some schools and under represented by parents and staff from other schools. Unlike other neighborhood boards in different cities, the population here is less than honest and wants to boost their school at any costs. I would be suspicious about the over the top posts claiming that BCC, Whitman, Blair or QO are the best ever that you hear on this board. For these schools, the building could catch on fire and their resident boosters would simply say its just a bit toasty inside.

There are real problems within MCPS that exist in most schools. The K-8 curriculum that has been used for the past seven years is a failure. A recent audit by John Hopkins found that the curriculum created by internal MCPS staff was shockingly inadequate, had up to a 30% error rate on materials sent out to the schools, and left large gaps in math. JHU reported that they had never seen a curriculum that received almost universal low ratings from all the teachers surveyed. This curriculum would have been replaced sooner BUT the staff member who created the mess and refused to listen to any teacher or parent complaints about it over the 7 years was caught in a conflict of interest with one of the vendors bidding on the next one. There have been an extraordinary number of sex abuse scandals involving MCPS staff and students. MCPS has a history of protecting and hiding the offenders and not addressing student safety. The school system was the top system in MD 10 years ago and now it is 6th or 9th and dropping each year. Buildings are falling apart, schools are overcrowded with only delays and no real plans to address the changing demographics. MCPS cares more about PR than student safety. Bullying, violence and gang related incidents are swept under the rug to avoid looking bad instead of focusing on protecting students and staff. There are BIG problems in MCPS and its too big to turn things around anytime soon.

There are some wonderful teachers and engaged parents in the system but understand that you need to be VERY watchful to make sure your child is getting an appropriate education. Many parents give up and go private if they can afford it, move to another county for better schools, or try to find ways to make the best despite the problems. Good luck.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP - one thing to keep in mind is that this board is over represented by parents and staff from some schools and under represented by parents and staff from other schools. Unlike other neighborhood boards in different cities, the population here is less than honest and wants to boost their school at any costs. I would be suspicious about the over the top posts claiming that BCC, Whitman, Blair or QO are the best ever that you hear on this board. For these schools, the building could catch on fire and their resident boosters would simply say its just a bit toasty inside.

There are real problems within MCPS that exist in most schools. The K-8 curriculum that has been used for the past seven years is a failure. A recent audit by John Hopkins found that the curriculum created by internal MCPS staff was shockingly inadequate, had up to a 30% error rate on materials sent out to the schools, and left large gaps in math. JHU reported that they had never seen a curriculum that received almost universal low ratings from all the teachers surveyed. This curriculum would have been replaced sooner BUT the staff member who created the mess and refused to listen to any teacher or parent complaints about it over the 7 years was caught in a conflict of interest with one of the vendors bidding on the next one. There have been an extraordinary number of sex abuse scandals involving MCPS staff and students. MCPS has a history of protecting and hiding the offenders and not addressing student safety. The school system was the top system in MD 10 years ago and now it is 6th or 9th and dropping each year. Buildings are falling apart, schools are overcrowded with only delays and no real plans to address the changing demographics. MCPS cares more about PR than student safety. Bullying, violence and gang related incidents are swept under the rug to avoid looking bad instead of focusing on protecting students and staff. There are BIG problems in MCPS and its too big to turn things around anytime soon.

There are some wonderful teachers and engaged parents in the system but understand that you need to be VERY watchful to make sure your child is getting an appropriate education. Many parents give up and go private if they can afford it, move to another county for better schools, or try to find ways to make the best despite the problems. Good luck.

There are no better schools in the area. MCPS schools dominate. Period

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One way to better understand the quality of education of one school or another is to perform more granular apples to apple analysis. Simple averages for standardized state test that GS uses for its ratings only serves to identify which high-schools draw a higher percentage of affluent kids. A better approach is to look at the granular data. When you isolate for race which is proxy a for socioeconomic status there is not much of a disparity between the performance of kids of the same backgrounds across these schools. For example, when you compare average SAT scores for MCPS schools for a larger demographic common to all these schools the GS narrative falls apart and it becomes clear they're not all that different.

Blair 1326
Walter Johnson 1275
Wooton 1262
Churchill 1257
Wheaton 1173
Einstein 1148
Kennedy 1088

https://montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/sharedaccountability/reports/2017/1771102HS%20Princ_SAT%20Partic_Perf%20Class%20of%202017.pdf

When most of the few white kids at Blair are in the magnet and from OOB, does that misleading statistic about there scores really speak to the experience of the other 3000 kids who score closer to the bottom of the county and live among pockets of concentrated poverty. That is the real blair, some math wiz stem kid from Chevy Chase was going to do great no matter where he took the test.

Me personally I’ll take a school full of that peer group compared to driving across town to a sketchy area with only a couple class rooms that most of the local kids don’t have access to. You don’t seem to be proclaiming that peer group’s SAT average??? Let me give you a hint, it’s really low but that is the true Blair peer group experience.

There was a post here a few weeks back that crunched the actual numbers for this. The impact of the magnet on this cohorts average wasn’t significant. At Blair, there are 100 juniors in the magnet of which fewer than 80 are from out of boundary largely because of the 25 person set aside at TPMS which gives the in-boundary kids a leg up. Anyway, about 40% of those 75-80 students belong to this cohort group. This boosted the SAT average from 1296 to 1326. Point being even without the magnet in a head to head comparison Blair outperforms any W by a statistically significant margin. It's hard to argue with facts, but I'm guessing you'll try.

Here’s a ballpark attempt to eliminate the out of boundary magnet scores from Blair’s SAT average for the largest common cohort.

1526 Blair Magnet SAT average public knowledge
1326 Blair SAT average score for common cohort from report
250 total number of kids from the cohort that took SAT according to report
32 number of OOB magnet kids from the cohort that took the SAT (40% of OOB 80 = 32)
where “x” is Blair’s in boundary SAT average for largest common cohort

(250 - 32) / 250 = 87% non-magnet cohort total
13% magnet % of cohort total

0.85x + 0.13 * 1526 = 1326
0.87x + 198 = 1326
0.9x = 1326 – 198
x = (1326 – 198) / 0.87 = 1296 SAT average without

Very helpful analysis

The W parents really hate it when the folly of their life choices are exposed with hard facts like SAT scores from the county or use of 7th grade algebra to determine the true impact of the magnet on Blair’s scores given the information that’s publicly available. I always suspected as much. Kudos - great job.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:....and she is back replying to her own flawed analysis. She's no different than Trump constantly insisting that his crowds were bigger than Obama. Blair's magnet program pulls from the entire county and the humanities magnet pulls from the entire DCC. There is no advantage to being in-boundary. In fact, some areas of Northwood are closer to Blair than in-bound areas for Blair.

The rest of Blair is no different than any other DCC school. In some ways its worse due to overcrowding, being so large and too much focus on the magnets. At least the other DCC schools focus on all their students not just the ones from OOB.

No, Blair's SMACS magnet does not pull from the entire county.

To apply to the Blair program, students must live in one of the following high school clusters:

Bethesda-Chevy Chase
Winston Churchill
Walter Johnson
Richard Montgomery
Rockville
Sherwood
Walt Whitman
Thomas S. Wootton
Northeast Consortium
Downcounty Consortium