Washington Post Contributor Believed Killed by Saudi Arabia

[Anonymous]

If the journalist was a CIA agent/informative, then who do you suppose let KSA know that information?

[jsteele]

Given that the Saudis have very well-funded PR operations in the US, if any of the pro-murder posters are being paid for their point of view, they should disclose it.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:Given that the Saudis have very well-funded PR operations in the US, if any of the pro-murder posters are being paid for their point of view, they should disclose it.

LOL!!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's fun to read how it's all Trump's fault.

The journalist is alive. Sorry.

Why are you sorry he is alive? For that matter, what evidence do you have that he is alive? Have we really reached the point that being pro-Trump means that you have to deny any world event that might make him look bad?

I hate KSA government and Trump as much as anyone. But I think it's ridiculous that some people are trying to hang this on Trump. A known repressive government has captured a critic of said government (a very recent one) in a third country. How is this America's fault? What does any of this have to do with Trump? And more broadly, since when does America have any power over what happens in KSA? No American government has really been able to pressure Saudis to do anything. Not big stuff, not little stuff. For Khashoggi, the man has eaten off the government largess long enough that I see his misfortune as occupational hazard, not martyrdom. Remember, this is the man who applauded the extermination of government opposition, who cheered on as the opposition cleric was beheaded. Now I'm supposed to grieve for him?

Trump had a call with the Saudi's the night before this went down. The US IC knew about the warnings - Trump had to have been briefed. Either Trump is complicit in having known about what was going to happen and didn't warn KSA not to do it, or else he is complicit. The third option is that he did warn KSA and they ignored it. That is HIGHLY unlikely.

Er...consider a tiny, very remote possibility that the chatter about Saudi government doing things to one of their own in a third country was simply not important enough to make it to presidential briefing. Besides, what makes you think KSA would listen to what Trump says?

Khossagghi was recently living in VA and was very very VERY likely a CIA asset. So yes, the POTUS should care what happens to our intelligence sources. He just sent a signal to all our deep-cover sources that he doesn't care about them.

This weakens American national security. Why is he weak on protecting the homeland?

Is the goal “national security”? What is “national”?

The President might consider this something of a pilot “Night of Long Knives”. Can he allow a Deep State asset to be targeted and executed? Can he get away with playing an active role in facilitating?

I think the President is right that a lot of “Democrats” are going to wind up in Republicans’ vote tallies. So long as polling margins stay in the single digits, a mix of base mobilization, voter security efforts and “fake news” polling can plausibly explain the GOP holding on to both houses of Congress.

That gives the President two more years to weather shutting down the Mueller investigation and marshaling his forces. Will he have enough time to strike at his enemies so that he can cancel 2020? I’m not sure.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:
You seem very eager to excuse this likely murder. The US has arrested American who spied for Israel. We didn’t chop them up into little pieces. Everyone should be outraged if this is what the Saudis did. That includes you.

When did KSA promise to behave exactly like America?

On the outrage, leaving aside the very curious attempt to dictate the feelings to perfect strangers...Khashoggi excused the regime chopping the heads of its opponents who called for political reforms inside the country. Now I am supposed to weep when HE got chopped up? Who kissed the royal bottom for years? Who ate from the hands of Al-Saud all his life? What's up with the clumsy attempt to package him as a lifelong reformer, instead of a lifelong government loyalist who either bet on the wrong prince or got too big for his britches?

Lie with the dogs, wake up with fleas.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

What country are you rooting for? Serious question.

If DJT knew one of our assets was in grave danger and did nothing, he is complicit and is putting American security as risk. Full stop.

My emotions are not important. What's important is to recognize that every country pursues its own interests and it's a perfectly rational thing to do. And if Khashoggi really WAS a CIA asset, then it's a perfectly rational thing on the part of the KSA to stop him, regardless of hand-wringing anywhere.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:
You seem very eager to excuse this likely murder. The US has arrested American who spied for Israel. We didn’t chop them up into little pieces. Everyone should be outraged if this is what the Saudis did. That includes you.

When did KSA promise to behave exactly like America?

On the outrage, leaving aside the very curious attempt to dictate the feelings to perfect strangers...Khashoggi excused the regime chopping the heads of its opponents who called for political reforms inside the country. Now I am supposed to weep when HE got chopped up? Who kissed the royal bottom for years? Who ate from the hands of Al-Saud all his life? What's up with the clumsy attempt to package him as a lifelong reformer, instead of a lifelong government loyalist who either bet on the wrong prince or got too big for his britches?

Lie with the dogs, wake up with fleas.

Most Americans oppose the death penalty for expressing views, regardless of how horrendous those views may be. I'm sorry that you are in the minority that believes otherwise.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:
You seem very eager to excuse this likely murder. The US has arrested American who spied for Israel. We didn’t chop them up into little pieces. Everyone should be outraged if this is what the Saudis did. That includes you.

When did KSA promise to behave exactly like America?

On the outrage, leaving aside the very curious attempt to dictate the feelings to perfect strangers...Khashoggi excused the regime chopping the heads of its opponents who called for political reforms inside the country. Now I am supposed to weep when HE got chopped up? Who kissed the royal bottom for years? Who ate from the hands of Al-Saud all his life? What's up with the clumsy attempt to package him as a lifelong reformer, instead of a lifelong government loyalist who either bet on the wrong prince or got too big for his britches?

Lie with the dogs, wake up with fleas.

Most Americans oppose the death penalty for expressing views, regardless of how horrendous those views may be. I'm sorry that you are in the minority that believes otherwise.

Most Saudis probably don’t. Geez, Jeff, how Eurocentric and imperialistic for you to impose your white American values on a totally different culture! I thought you were a liberal

[Anonymous]

Just re-upping this

https://theintercept.com/2018/03/21/jared-kushner-saudi-crown-prince-mohammed-bin-salman/

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:
You seem very eager to excuse this likely murder. The US has arrested American who spied for Israel. We didn’t chop them up into little pieces. Everyone should be outraged if this is what the Saudis did. That includes you.

When did KSA promise to behave exactly like America?

On the outrage, leaving aside the very curious attempt to dictate the feelings to perfect strangers...Khashoggi excused the regime chopping the heads of its opponents who called for political reforms inside the country. Now I am supposed to weep when HE got chopped up? Who kissed the royal bottom for years? Who ate from the hands of Al-Saud all his life? What's up with the clumsy attempt to package him as a lifelong reformer, instead of a lifelong government loyalist who either bet on the wrong prince or got too big for his britches?

Lie with the dogs, wake up with fleas.

Most Americans oppose the death penalty for expressing views, regardless of how horrendous those views may be. I'm sorry that you are in the minority that believes otherwise.

I am not delighted by what happened to him at all, and I certainly don't think he should have been killed for the choices he made. I just can't work myself up to a wave of righteous outrage that seems to be gripping the airwaves.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:
You seem very eager to excuse this likely murder. The US has arrested American who spied for Israel. We didn’t chop them up into little pieces. Everyone should be outraged if this is what the Saudis did. That includes you.

When did KSA promise to behave exactly like America?

On the outrage, leaving aside the very curious attempt to dictate the feelings to perfect strangers...Khashoggi excused the regime chopping the heads of its opponents who called for political reforms inside the country. Now I am supposed to weep when HE got chopped up? Who kissed the royal bottom for years? Who ate from the hands of Al-Saud all his life? What's up with the clumsy attempt to package him as a lifelong reformer, instead of a lifelong government loyalist who either bet on the wrong prince or got too big for his britches?

Lie with the dogs, wake up with fleas.

Most Americans oppose the death penalty for expressing views, regardless of how horrendous those views may be. I'm sorry that you are in the minority that believes otherwise.

Most Saudis probably don’t. Geez, Jeff, how Eurocentric and imperialistic for you to impose your white American values on a totally different culture! I thought you were a liberal

I'm happy to impose the value of free expression on anyone. But more to the point, I am an American posting on a website whose audience is 99 percent American. Khashoggi was a US resident and the US has an interest in his fate. I'm surprised to find Saudi apologists here.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:
You seem very eager to excuse this likely murder. The US has arrested American who spied for Israel. We didn’t chop them up into little pieces. Everyone should be outraged if this is what the Saudis did. That includes you.

When did KSA promise to behave exactly like America?

On the outrage, leaving aside the very curious attempt to dictate the feelings to perfect strangers...Khashoggi excused the regime chopping the heads of its opponents who called for political reforms inside the country. Now I am supposed to weep when HE got chopped up? Who kissed the royal bottom for years? Who ate from the hands of Al-Saud all his life? What's up with the clumsy attempt to package him as a lifelong reformer, instead of a lifelong government loyalist who either bet on the wrong prince or got too big for his britches?

Lie with the dogs, wake up with fleas.

Most Americans oppose the death penalty for expressing views, regardless of how horrendous those views may be. I'm sorry that you are in the minority that believes otherwise.

Most Saudis probably don’t. Geez, Jeff, how Eurocentric and imperialistic for you to impose your white American values on a totally different culture! I thought you were a liberal

I'm happy to impose the value of free expression on anyone. But more to the point, I am an American posting on a website whose audience is 99 percent American. Khashoggi was a US resident and the US has an interest in his fate. I'm surprised to find Saudi apologists here.

I'm not surprised at all given that SA is a rich country and people tend to idolize that. Also, Saudi Arabia, China, and Russia are all going to become a lot more popular as the world pulls away from human rights. New technologies are making it easier to marginalize groups and track dissidents while making unifying messaging more difficult.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:
You seem very eager to excuse this likely murder. The US has arrested American who spied for Israel. We didn’t chop them up into little pieces. Everyone should be outraged if this is what the Saudis did. That includes you.

When did KSA promise to behave exactly like America?

On the outrage, leaving aside the very curious attempt to dictate the feelings to perfect strangers...Khashoggi excused the regime chopping the heads of its opponents who called for political reforms inside the country. Now I am supposed to weep when HE got chopped up? Who kissed the royal bottom for years? Who ate from the hands of Al-Saud all his life? What's up with the clumsy attempt to package him as a lifelong reformer, instead of a lifelong government loyalist who either bet on the wrong prince or got too big for his britches?

Lie with the dogs, wake up with fleas.

Most Americans oppose the death penalty for expressing views, regardless of how horrendous those views may be. I'm sorry that you are in the minority that believes otherwise.

Most Saudis probably don’t. Geez, Jeff, how Eurocentric and imperialistic for you to impose your white American values on a totally different culture! I thought you were a liberal

I'm happy to impose the value of free expression on anyone. But more to the point, I am an American posting on a website whose audience is 99 percent American. Khashoggi was a US resident and the US has an interest in his fate. I'm surprised to find Saudi apologists here.

I don't know if it's as much as Saudi apologists as pragmatism. The people you seem to allege as being apologists are the ones pointing out the badasses in the House of Saud and the risks of crossing paths with them. That doesn't sound like apologising for Saudi to me. Everyone on this thread seems to mutually agree that the Saudis are terrible.

I looked up Khashoggi and from what I can tell he fled Saudi in 2017. He might have been living in the US at various points but he was not American. He was firmly a Saudi. He knew the rules, as anyone who's lived in the Gulf would know. You do not badmouth your country or tribe or ruler or politics in public, and not in the way he did. All bets are off when you do so. Trying to claim the virtues of Western liberalism while still still keeping a foot firmly in the world of 15th century tribal politics is pushing it a bit too far.

I am not without sympathy over the potentially brutal death of a man, but as others have pointed out, he doubtlessly knew the risks and what he was doing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:
You seem very eager to excuse this likely murder. The US has arrested American who spied for Israel. We didn’t chop them up into little pieces. Everyone should be outraged if this is what the Saudis did. That includes you.

When did KSA promise to behave exactly like America?

On the outrage, leaving aside the very curious attempt to dictate the feelings to perfect strangers...Khashoggi excused the regime chopping the heads of its opponents who called for political reforms inside the country. Now I am supposed to weep when HE got chopped up? Who kissed the royal bottom for years? Who ate from the hands of Al-Saud all his life? What's up with the clumsy attempt to package him as a lifelong reformer, instead of a lifelong government loyalist who either bet on the wrong prince or got too big for his britches?

Lie with the dogs, wake up with fleas.

Most Americans oppose the death penalty for expressing views, regardless of how horrendous those views may be. I'm sorry that you are in the minority that believes otherwise.

Most Saudis probably don’t. Geez, Jeff, how Eurocentric and imperialistic for you to impose your white American values on a totally different culture! I thought you were a liberal

I'm happy to impose the value of free expression on anyone. But more to the point, I am an American posting on a website whose audience is 99 percent American. Khashoggi was a US resident and the US has an interest in his fate. I'm surprised to find Saudi apologists here.

I'm not surprised at all given that SA is a rich country and people tend to idolize that. Also, Saudi Arabia, China, and Russia are all going to become a lot more popular as the world pulls away from human rights. New technologies are making it easier to marginalize groups and track dissidents while making unifying messaging more difficult.

Saudi has significant fiscal problems. I'm not sure if there are that many people beyond fundamentalist Muslims who idolize Saudi. It's not even well respected in the other Gulf countries, even among its traditional allies.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:
You seem very eager to excuse this likely murder. The US has arrested American who spied for Israel. We didn’t chop them up into little pieces. Everyone should be outraged if this is what the Saudis did. That includes you.

When did KSA promise to behave exactly like America?

On the outrage, leaving aside the very curious attempt to dictate the feelings to perfect strangers...Khashoggi excused the regime chopping the heads of its opponents who called for political reforms inside the country. Now I am supposed to weep when HE got chopped up? Who kissed the royal bottom for years? Who ate from the hands of Al-Saud all his life? What's up with the clumsy attempt to package him as a lifelong reformer, instead of a lifelong government loyalist who either bet on the wrong prince or got too big for his britches?

Lie with the dogs, wake up with fleas.

Most Americans oppose the death penalty for expressing views, regardless of how horrendous those views may be. I'm sorry that you are in the minority that believes otherwise.

Most Saudis probably don’t. Geez, Jeff, how Eurocentric and imperialistic for you to impose your white American values on a totally different culture! I thought you were a liberal

I'm happy to impose the value of free expression on anyone. But more to the point, I am an American posting on a website whose audience is 99 percent American. Khashoggi was a US resident and the US has an interest in his fate. I'm surprised to find Saudi apologists here.

I don't know if it's as much as Saudi apologists as pragmatism. The people you seem to allege as being apologists are the ones pointing out the badasses in the House of Saud and the risks of crossing paths with them. That doesn't sound like apologising for Saudi to me. Everyone on this thread seems to mutually agree that the Saudis are terrible.

I looked up Khashoggi and from what I can tell he fled Saudi in 2017. He might have been living in the US at various points but he was not American. He was firmly a Saudi. He knew the rules, as anyone who's lived in the Gulf would know. You do not badmouth your country or tribe or ruler or politics in public, and not in the way he did. All bets are off when you do so. Trying to claim the virtues of Western liberalism while still still keeping a foot firmly in the world of 15th century tribal politics is pushing it a bit too far.

I am not without sympathy over the potentially brutal death of a man, but as others have pointed out, he doubtlessly knew the risks and what he was doing.

Posted from Doha. Another apologist.