Who Completes the GBRS? AART or Classroom Teacher?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay. There are some truly tiny schools in FCPS. It would make sense that smart kids in very tiny schools might need AAP to have access to advanced math or above grade level reading groups, since they would lack critical mass otherwise. The same is not true for base schools with over 100 kids per grade, since they would still have a critical mass of advanced students.

It wouldn't be an issue of base schools giving higher GBRS and center schools giving lower, so much as it would be an issue of very small schools giving higher GBRS and larger base schools not needing to do so.

but even then, assuming that abilities of students in a school are normally distributed, as it should be, a very small school with good students will still have a peer group. IF a student is really an outlier, then that student will get a high GBRS, not because he/she comes from a small school, but because the student is an outlier. the only case where that may make sense is if all students were GBRS 4-9 and a kid or 2 are 12/13 and you want to give them a chance. But we don't observe such skewness in the population, especially in more affluent areas of fx county. I bet the areas where schools have such few kids are affluent.

Not necessarily. Parents of gifted kids may buy houses close to center schools, in order to reduce bus rides and for sibling reasons. Some centers probably do have a slightly or significantly higher proportion of gifted kids than base schools, for that reason.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay. There are some truly tiny schools in FCPS. It would make sense that smart kids in very tiny schools might need AAP to have access to advanced math or above grade level reading groups, since they would lack critical mass otherwise. The same is not true for base schools with over 100 kids per grade, since they would still have a critical mass of advanced students.

It wouldn't be an issue of base schools giving higher GBRS and center schools giving lower, so much as it would be an issue of very small schools giving higher GBRS and larger base schools not needing to do so.

but even then, assuming that abilities of students in a school are normally distributed, as it should be, a very small school with good students will still have a peer group. IF a student is really an outlier, then that student will get a high GBRS, not because he/she comes from a small school, but because the student is an outlier. the only case where that may make sense is if all students were GBRS 4-9 and a kid or 2 are 12/13 and you want to give them a chance. But we don't observe such skewness in the population, especially in more affluent areas of fx county. I bet the areas where schools have such few kids are affluent.

Not necessarily. Parents of gifted kids may buy houses close to center schools, in order to reduce bus rides and for sibling reasons. Some centers probably do have a slightly or significantly higher proportion of gifted kids than base schools, for that reason.

fx county has a very high number of gifted kids compared to the general population (so there is right hand skewness as it is). So even if some/many gifted kids get drained from base schools for logistic reasons, the distribution will not become left skewed. It will probably be closer to normal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My experience is from years ago -- DD in in 10th grade now. But what her school did is to ensure that the AART knew the students by having her teach 2nd grade math. There were 2 1/2 classes of grade 2...

So the AART and a teacher were familiar with everyone. The AP (not the P at this school then) was involved too. I am unsure of her role, but it may be to ensure year to year continuity. They did not seek input from the first grade teacher except through the "permanent record". That was because the 1st grade teacher left fcps.

In the end, I saw the commentary and the GBRS. They captured a reasonable view of my child -- including her anxiety issues as well as what she does well. Her score was 15.

15 is a very high score. Did your teacher say she would support your child for AAP or any prior indication for the high score?

Both teacher and AART said they would put a "strong package" together. This was after she did meh on the CogAT (teacher thinks it was related to anxiety regarding the instructions; DD had a question, teacher was not allowed to answer based on the rules. DD was upset (this is from the teacher. Yes I remember that conversation)).

Our teacher said that she would put a strong package together and support our packet, but what does it mean? Can they give 10-12 and say it's still a strong package? What's a strong GBRS score anyway? Looking at the categories, getting 4s in all of the categories might be extremely hard unless your child is a total genius.

My child IS a total genius and got a horrible GBRS. Her FSIQ on the WISC-V is 149. Her GBRS was 9. So there is that . . . . I don't think these teachers know anything and don't trust them. We will give AAP a year and see if homeschooling is really what is best.

That's crazy. That is why I'm glad FCPS does a holisitic approach and not just NNAT, CogAT, and GBRS like people always say they should just do. Imagine if the committee didn't allow you to submit that WISC? I don't have my child's file yet but will ask this week. I hope I don't feel blindsided.

What were the NNAT and COGAT scores? You submitted the WISC before the packet was sent or during the appeal? If before, how can a group then sit down and view high scores and still give a kid a 9?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay. There are some truly tiny schools in FCPS. It would make sense that smart kids in very tiny schools might need AAP to have access to advanced math or above grade level reading groups, since they would lack critical mass otherwise. The same is not true for base schools with over 100 kids per grade, since they would still have a critical mass of advanced students.

It wouldn't be an issue of base schools giving higher GBRS and center schools giving lower, so much as it would be an issue of very small schools giving higher GBRS and larger base schools not needing to do so.

but even then, assuming that abilities of students in a school are normally distributed, as it should be, a very small school with good students will still have a peer group. IF a student is really an outlier, then that student will get a high GBRS, not because he/she comes from a small school, but because the student is an outlier. the only case where that may make sense is if all students were GBRS 4-9 and a kid or 2 are 12/13 and you want to give them a chance. But we don't observe such skewness in the population, especially in more affluent areas of fx county. I bet the areas where schools have such few kids are affluent.

Not necessarily. Parents of gifted kids may buy houses close to center schools, in order to reduce bus rides and for sibling reasons. Some centers probably do have a slightly or significantly higher proportion of gifted kids than base schools, for that reason.

We did this. Not sure how common it is but it makes sense. I was in FCPS's GT program back on the 80's and my siblings were not. My base school was a center and my parents told me they most likely would not have sent me to a different school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My experience is from years ago -- DD in in 10th grade now. But what her school did is to ensure that the AART knew the students by having her teach 2nd grade math. There were 2 1/2 classes of grade 2...

So the AART and a teacher were familiar with everyone. The AP (not the P at this school then) was involved too. I am unsure of her role, but it may be to ensure year to year continuity. They did not seek input from the first grade teacher except through the "permanent record". That was because the 1st grade teacher left fcps.

In the end, I saw the commentary and the GBRS. They captured a reasonable view of my child -- including her anxiety issues as well as what she does well. Her score was 15.

15 is a very high score. Did your teacher say she would support your child for AAP or any prior indication for the high score?

Both teacher and AART said they would put a "strong package" together. This was after she did meh on the CogAT (teacher thinks it was related to anxiety regarding the instructions; DD had a question, teacher was not allowed to answer based on the rules. DD was upset (this is from the teacher. Yes I remember that conversation)).

Our teacher said that she would put a strong package together and support our packet, but what does it mean? Can they give 10-12 and say it's still a strong package? What's a strong GBRS score anyway? Looking at the categories, getting 4s in all of the categories might be extremely hard unless your child is a total genius.

My child IS a total genius and got a horrible GBRS. Her FSIQ on the WISC-V is 149. Her GBRS was 9. So there is that . . . . I don't think these teachers know anything and don't trust them. We will give AAP a year and see if homeschooling is really what is best.

That's crazy. That is why I'm glad FCPS does a holisitic approach and not just NNAT, CogAT, and GBRS like people always say they should just do. Imagine if the committee didn't allow you to submit that WISC? I don't have my child's file yet but will ask this week. I hope I don't feel blindsided.

What were the NNAT and COGAT scores? You submitted the WISC before the packet was sent or during the appeal? If before, how can a group then sit down and view high scores and still give a kid a 9?

I submitted the WISC before the packet was sent. As to how a group could still give a 9 is beyond me. My guess, they don't know how to identify giftedness. I was told, "we don't see any gifted attributes." They also questioned my decision to refer her. Her NNAT and CogAT were sub-par but she has anxiety. Her NNAT was 120 and her CogAT was 123.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My experience is from years ago -- DD in in 10th grade now. But what her school did is to ensure that the AART knew the students by having her teach 2nd grade math. There were 2 1/2 classes of grade 2...

So the AART and a teacher were familiar with everyone. The AP (not the P at this school then) was involved too. I am unsure of her role, but it may be to ensure year to year continuity. They did not seek input from the first grade teacher except through the "permanent record". That was because the 1st grade teacher left fcps.

In the end, I saw the commentary and the GBRS. They captured a reasonable view of my child -- including her anxiety issues as well as what she does well. Her score was 15.

15 is a very high score. Did your teacher say she would support your child for AAP or any prior indication for the high score?

Both teacher and AART said they would put a "strong package" together. This was after she did meh on the CogAT (teacher thinks it was related to anxiety regarding the instructions; DD had a question, teacher was not allowed to answer based on the rules. DD was upset (this is from the teacher. Yes I remember that conversation)).

Our teacher said that she would put a strong package together and support our packet, but what does it mean? Can they give 10-12 and say it's still a strong package? What's a strong GBRS score anyway? Looking at the categories, getting 4s in all of the categories might be extremely hard unless your child is a total genius.

My child IS a total genius and got a horrible GBRS. Her FSIQ on the WISC-V is 149. Her GBRS was 9. So there is that . . . . I don't think these teachers know anything and don't trust them. We will give AAP a year and see if homeschooling is really what is best.

That's crazy. That is why I'm glad FCPS does a holisitic approach and not just NNAT, CogAT, and GBRS like people always say they should just do. Imagine if the committee didn't allow you to submit that WISC? I don't have my child's file yet but will ask this week. I hope I don't feel blindsided.

What were the NNAT and COGAT scores? You submitted the WISC before the packet was sent or during the appeal? If before, how can a group then sit down and view high scores and still give a kid a 9?

I submitted the WISC before the packet was sent. As to how a group could still give a 9 is beyond me. My guess, they don't know how to identify giftedness. I was told, "we don't see any gifted attributes." They also questioned my decision to refer her. Her NNAT and CogAT were sub-par but she has anxiety. Her NNAT was 120 and her CogAT was 123.

Ok. Well that makes a bit more sense that they would give the recommendation based on their observations and the testing results done by FCPS. That's a little strange the WISC was so much higher. My child got a similar WISC score but the Cogat was the same score give or take a point as well. They test similar strengths.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My experience is from years ago -- DD in in 10th grade now. But what her school did is to ensure that the AART knew the students by having her teach 2nd grade math. There were 2 1/2 classes of grade 2...

So the AART and a teacher were familiar with everyone. The AP (not the P at this school then) was involved too. I am unsure of her role, but it may be to ensure year to year continuity. They did not seek input from the first grade teacher except through the "permanent record". That was because the 1st grade teacher left fcps.

In the end, I saw the commentary and the GBRS. They captured a reasonable view of my child -- including her anxiety issues as well as what she does well. Her score was 15.

15 is a very high score. Did your teacher say she would support your child for AAP or any prior indication for the high score?

Both teacher and AART said they would put a "strong package" together. This was after she did meh on the CogAT (teacher thinks it was related to anxiety regarding the instructions; DD had a question, teacher was not allowed to answer based on the rules. DD was upset (this is from the teacher. Yes I remember that conversation)).

Our teacher said that she would put a strong package together and support our packet, but what does it mean? Can they give 10-12 and say it's still a strong package? What's a strong GBRS score anyway? Looking at the categories, getting 4s in all of the categories might be extremely hard unless your child is a total genius.

My child IS a total genius and got a horrible GBRS. Her FSIQ on the WISC-V is 149. Her GBRS was 9. So there is that . . . . I don't think these teachers know anything and don't trust them. We will give AAP a year and see if homeschooling is really what is best.

That's crazy. That is why I'm glad FCPS does a holisitic approach and not just NNAT, CogAT, and GBRS like people always say they should just do. Imagine if the committee didn't allow you to submit that WISC? I don't have my child's file yet but will ask this week. I hope I don't feel blindsided.

What were the NNAT and COGAT scores? You submitted the WISC before the packet was sent or during the appeal? If before, how can a group then sit down and view high scores and still give a kid a 9?

I submitted the WISC before the packet was sent. As to how a group could still give a 9 is beyond me. My guess, they don't know how to identify giftedness. I was told, "we don't see any gifted attributes." They also questioned my decision to refer her. Her NNAT and CogAT were sub-par but she has anxiety. Her NNAT was 120 and her CogAT was 123.

Ok. Well that makes a bit more sense that they would give the recommendation based on their observations and the testing results done by FCPS. That's a little strange the WISC was so much higher. My child got a similar WISC score but the Cogat was the same score give or take a point as well. They test similar strengths.

CogAT is an achievement test. WISC is an IQ test. They don't necessarily correlate. Also, the WISC is given in a one on one setting vs being a group test. There is nothing odd about a child with anxiety doing better on a test given one on one. My child also wasn't in pool but had a higher WISC. 109 NNAT, 118 CogAT, 137 WISC. My child has ADHD-iattentive type and also has anxiety.