Who Completes the GBRS? AART or Classroom Teacher?

[Anonymous]

What you're saying does not make sense. Just because they said that 15/16s are rare, and other kids in non center schools got 15/16s, does not mean that the scoring is not consistent throughout schools. I would also be very surprised that FCPS admins would publlicly admit to inconsistencies throughout the county's AAP program, especially since FCPS is very strong in saying that the program is uniform across centers, and consistent in choosing the eligible students. From what I have read on the school website, the oversight committee will look for inconsistencies, so I doubt that a bunch of evaluators would silently agreeing on being inconsistent.

All of that being said, it may very well be true that there is no consistency, but then, why aren't there any whistle blowers?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know whose names go on the form. The point is whose opinion counts. The admin can't really have a valid opinion other than make sure that the work samples warrant the rating.

Principal here: it’s truly a group decision. I do know the kids and take the time to observe them in class. And I know the ratings scale. The AART and the teacher have their viewpoints as well. We ask each other questions about the child, and we look at the work together. We come to consensus and collaborate to write the comments using the exemplar statements for each category.

How would you know which kid to observe in class if they are not in the pool by the NNAT?

And is it true (like another poster said) that GBRSs from non-center schools are higher than those from center schools?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know whose names go on the form. The point is whose opinion counts. The admin can't really have a valid opinion other than make sure that the work samples warrant the rating.

Principal here: it’s truly a group decision. I do know the kids and take the time to observe them in class. And I know the ratings scale. The AART and the teacher have their viewpoints as well. We ask each other questions about the child, and we look at the work together. We come to consensus and collaborate to write the comments using the exemplar statements for each category.

How would you know which kid to observe in class if they are not in the pool by the NNAT?

And is it true (like another poster said) that GBRSs from non-center schools are higher than those from center schools?

Typically, principals or assistant principals visit 2nd grade classrooms in the fall so they can start to observe the kids in the pool based on NNAT scores. And then once they can do that for the rest of the kids from December through February. Their visit is typically very short 5-10 mins each classroom so I can't say they collect significant data from those visits.

It all depends on which center school we're talking about but generally speaking central schools have a lot more kids and more kids who are smart and advanced in math and reading..etc. so naturally it's more competitive and that includes GBRSs too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know whose names go on the form. The point is whose opinion counts. The admin can't really have a valid opinion other than make sure that the work samples warrant the rating.

Principal here: it’s truly a group decision. I do know the kids and take the time to observe them in class. And I know the ratings scale. The AART and the teacher have their viewpoints as well. We ask each other questions about the child, and we look at the work together. We come to consensus and collaborate to write the comments using the exemplar statements for each category.

How would you know which kid to observe in class if they are not in the pool by the NNAT?

And is it true (like another poster said) that GBRSs from non-center schools are higher than those from center schools?

There is a month between parent referral deadlines and the screening meeting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know whose names go on the form. The point is whose opinion counts. The admin can't really have a valid opinion other than make sure that the work samples warrant the rating.

Principal here: it’s truly a group decision. I do know the kids and take the time to observe them in class. And I know the ratings scale. The AART and the teacher have their viewpoints as well. We ask each other questions about the child, and we look at the work together. We come to consensus and collaborate to write the comments using the exemplar statements for each category.

How would you know which kid to observe in class if they are not in the pool by the NNAT?

And is it true (like another poster said) that GBRSs from non-center schools are higher than those from center schools?

Typically, principals or assistant principals visit 2nd grade classrooms in the fall so they can start to observe the kids in the pool based on NNAT scores. And then once they can do that for the rest of the kids from December through February. Their visit is typically very short 5-10 mins each classroom so I can't say they collect significant data from those visits.

It all depends on which center school we're talking about but generally speaking central schools have a lot more kids and more kids who are smart and advanced in math and reading..etc. so naturally it's more competitive and that includes GBRSs too.

GBRS may be more competitive, but is it being affected? If a child is showing signs of giftedness his/her peers shouldn't matter. There must be a standard to be met, and by saying that a high GBRS is tougher to get at a center school, one is saying that the bar is lower at other schools, and that there is no consistency. When I've asked the county's AAP office they have said that a kid's chances of being admitted should be the same regardless of the school/center the child belongs to. I've asked this question because we moved, and I wanted to make sure moving was the right decision. I didn't see any reason why my child would not have been selected at the 'tougher' school.

Also, if you look at the schools that belong to a center, some centers serve 3-4 schools, some serve 12-15. This should mean that it does not matter who gives you the GBRS, because there'll be a spot if your kid belongs there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know whose names go on the form. The point is whose opinion counts. The admin can't really have a valid opinion other than make sure that the work samples warrant the rating.

Principal here: it’s truly a group decision. I do know the kids and take the time to observe them in class. And I know the ratings scale. The AART and the teacher have their viewpoints as well. We ask each other questions about the child, and we look at the work together. We come to consensus and collaborate to write the comments using the exemplar statements for each category.

How would you know which kid to observe in class if they are not in the pool by the NNAT?

And is it true (like another poster said) that GBRSs from non-center schools are higher than those from center schools?

Typically, principals or assistant principals visit 2nd grade classrooms in the fall so they can start to observe the kids in the pool based on NNAT scores. And then once they can do that for the rest of the kids from December through February. Their visit is typically very short 5-10 mins each classroom so I can't say they collect significant data from those visits.

It all depends on which center school we're talking about but generally speaking central schools have a lot more kids and more kids who are smart and advanced in math and reading..etc. so naturally it's more competitive and that includes GBRSs too.

GBRS may be more competitive, but is it being affected? If a child is showing signs of giftedness his/her peers shouldn't matter. There must be a standard to be met, and by saying that a high GBRS is tougher to get at a center school, one is saying that the bar is lower at other schools, and that there is no consistency. When I've asked the county's AAP office they have said that a kid's chances of being admitted should be the same regardless of the school/center the child belongs to. I've asked this question because we moved, and I wanted to make sure moving was the right decision. I didn't see any reason why my child would not have been selected at the 'tougher' school.

Also, if you look at the schools that belong to a center, some centers serve 3-4 schools, some serve 12-15. This should mean that it does not matter who gives you the GBRS, because there'll be a spot if your kid belongs there.

For non-central schools, there is nothing to lose if they literally give every child 15 or 16 because about 50% of the kids decide to stay at their base school anyway (e.g., school bus, friendship issue...etc.). However, for central schools, they have a lot more applicants from their own school because they have more of those smart kids and tiger parents, they can't give everyone 15 or 16 because they can't host everyone (generally 3-4 AAP classrooms per grade), they also have to take significant number of kids from other schools that are at least 4-5 other schools. I think this alone explains a bit how competitive it might be at a central school to get 15 or 16.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know whose names go on the form. The point is whose opinion counts. The admin can't really have a valid opinion other than make sure that the work samples warrant the rating.

Principal here: it’s truly a group decision. I do know the kids and take the time to observe them in class. And I know the ratings scale. The AART and the teacher have their viewpoints as well. We ask each other questions about the child, and we look at the work together. We come to consensus and collaborate to write the comments using the exemplar statements for each category.

How would you know which kid to observe in class if they are not in the pool by the NNAT?

And is it true (like another poster said) that GBRSs from non-center schools are higher than those from center schools?

Typically, principals or assistant principals visit 2nd grade classrooms in the fall so they can start to observe the kids in the pool based on NNAT scores. And then once they can do that for the rest of the kids from December through February. Their visit is typically very short 5-10 mins each classroom so I can't say they collect significant data from those visits.

It all depends on which center school we're talking about but generally speaking central schools have a lot more kids and more kids who are smart and advanced in math and reading..etc. so naturally it's more competitive and that includes GBRSs too.

GBRS may be more competitive, but is it being affected? If a child is showing signs of giftedness his/her peers shouldn't matter. There must be a standard to be met, and by saying that a high GBRS is tougher to get at a center school, one is saying that the bar is lower at other schools, and that there is no consistency. When I've asked the county's AAP office they have said that a kid's chances of being admitted should be the same regardless of the school/center the child belongs to. I've asked this question because we moved, and I wanted to make sure moving was the right decision. I didn't see any reason why my child would not have been selected at the 'tougher' school.

Also, if you look at the schools that belong to a center, some centers serve 3-4 schools, some serve 12-15. This should mean that it does not matter who gives you the GBRS, because there'll be a spot if your kid belongs there.

For non-central schools, there is nothing to lose if they literally give every child 15 or 16 because about 50% of the kids decide to stay at their base school anyway (e.g., school bus, friendship issue...etc.). However, for central schools, they have a lot more applicants from their own school because they have more of those smart kids and tiger parents, they can't give everyone 15 or 16 because they can't host everyone (generally 3-4 AAP classrooms per grade), they also have to take significant number of kids from other schools that are at least 4-5 other schools. I think this alone explains a bit how competitive it might be at a central school to get 15 or 16.

This might be true. In our central school, only about 10-15% in AAP class is from our school, and the rest of them are from other schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know whose names go on the form. The point is whose opinion counts. The admin can't really have a valid opinion other than make sure that the work samples warrant the rating.

Principal here: it’s truly a group decision. I do know the kids and take the time to observe them in class. And I know the ratings scale. The AART and the teacher have their viewpoints as well. We ask each other questions about the child, and we look at the work together. We come to consensus and collaborate to write the comments using the exemplar statements for each category.

How would you know which kid to observe in class if they are not in the pool by the NNAT?

And is it true (like another poster said) that GBRSs from non-center schools are higher than those from center schools?

Typically, principals or assistant principals visit 2nd grade classrooms in the fall so they can start to observe the kids in the pool based on NNAT scores. And then once they can do that for the rest of the kids from December through February. Their visit is typically very short 5-10 mins each classroom so I can't say they collect significant data from those visits.

It all depends on which center school we're talking about but generally speaking central schools have a lot more kids and more kids who are smart and advanced in math and reading..etc. so naturally it's more competitive and that includes GBRSs too.

GBRS may be more competitive, but is it being affected? If a child is showing signs of giftedness his/her peers shouldn't matter. There must be a standard to be met, and by saying that a high GBRS is tougher to get at a center school, one is saying that the bar is lower at other schools, and that there is no consistency. When I've asked the county's AAP office they have said that a kid's chances of being admitted should be the same regardless of the school/center the child belongs to. I've asked this question because we moved, and I wanted to make sure moving was the right decision. I didn't see any reason why my child would not have been selected at the 'tougher' school.

Also, if you look at the schools that belong to a center, some centers serve 3-4 schools, some serve 12-15. This should mean that it does not matter who gives you the GBRS, because there'll be a spot if your kid belongs there.

For non-central schools, there is nothing to lose if they literally give every child 15 or 16 because about 50% of the kids decide to stay at their base school anyway (e.g., school bus, friendship issue...etc.). However, for central schools, they have a lot more applicants from their own school because they have more of those smart kids and tiger parents, they can't give everyone 15 or 16 because they can't host everyone (generally 3-4 AAP classrooms per grade), they also have to take significant number of kids from other schools that are at least 4-5 other schools. I think this alone explains a bit how competitive it might be at a central school to get 15 or 16.

What you are describing is a selection bias.

Maybe from the non-center schools only the parents of kids who are in pool, or who are really advanced will try, hence higher GBRSs, whereas for center schools more parents, regardless of the academic quality of their kids, will apply for AAP, since they are not moving schools. This does not mean that the standard is different, it can just mean that a larger variety of kids apply from the center school, including those who would not qualify even if at a non-center school.

Seats are unlimited.

I would love to hear what the principal in the topic has to say about this, and identify her/himself as the principal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know whose names go on the form. The point is whose opinion counts. The admin can't really have a valid opinion other than make sure that the work samples warrant the rating.

Principal here: it’s truly a group decision. I do know the kids and take the time to observe them in class. And I know the ratings scale. The AART and the teacher have their viewpoints as well. We ask each other questions about the child, and we look at the work together. We come to consensus and collaborate to write the comments using the exemplar statements for each category.

How would you know which kid to observe in class if they are not in the pool by the NNAT?

And is it true (like another poster said) that GBRSs from non-center schools are higher than those from center schools?

Typically, principals or assistant principals visit 2nd grade classrooms in the fall so they can start to observe the kids in the pool based on NNAT scores. And then once they can do that for the rest of the kids from December through February. Their visit is typically very short 5-10 mins each classroom so I can't say they collect significant data from those visits.

It all depends on which center school we're talking about but generally speaking central schools have a lot more kids and more kids who are smart and advanced in math and reading..etc. so naturally it's more competitive and that includes GBRSs too.

GBRS may be more competitive, but is it being affected? If a child is showing signs of giftedness his/her peers shouldn't matter. There must be a standard to be met, and by saying that a high GBRS is tougher to get at a center school, one is saying that the bar is lower at other schools, and that there is no consistency. When I've asked the county's AAP office they have said that a kid's chances of being admitted should be the same regardless of the school/center the child belongs to. I've asked this question because we moved, and I wanted to make sure moving was the right decision. I didn't see any reason why my child would not have been selected at the 'tougher' school.

Also, if you look at the schools that belong to a center, some centers serve 3-4 schools, some serve 12-15. This should mean that it does not matter who gives you the GBRS, because there'll be a spot if your kid belongs there.

For non-central schools, there is nothing to lose if they literally give every child 15 or 16 because about 50% of the kids decide to stay at their base school anyway (e.g., school bus, friendship issue...etc.). However, for central schools, they have a lot more applicants from their own school because they have more of those smart kids and tiger parents, they can't give everyone 15 or 16 because they can't host everyone (generally 3-4 AAP classrooms per grade), they also have to take significant number of kids from other schools that are at least 4-5 other schools. I think this alone explains a bit how competitive it might be at a central school to get 15 or 16.

What you are describing is a selection bias.

Maybe from the non-center schools only the parents of kids who are in pool, or who are really advanced will try, hence higher GBRSs, whereas for center schools more parents, regardless of the academic quality of their kids, will apply for AAP, since they are not moving schools. This does not mean that the standard is different, it can just mean that a larger variety of kids apply from the center school, including those who would not qualify even if at a non-center school.

Seats are unlimited.

I would love to hear what the principal in the topic has to say about this, and identify her/himself as the principal.

I don't think anyone who claims to be a principal on this board is actually a principal/teacher

[Anonymous]

Principal here: At a non-center school. We have parent referrals from a wide variety of students. And we have in-pool students. We follow the process and look at each child individually by reviewing the work and taking about what each of us has observed. Of those that are not in pool, some ended up with high GBRS and some ended up with a 9 or below.

Time to go watch the Oscars. Busy week ahead, and I like to relax. You all might consider doing the same. Wherever your child lands, be it in a center or staying in gen ed, he/she will be fine. This really is an outstanding school system, and I say that as a former teacher and now parent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
For non-central schools, there is nothing to lose if they literally give every child 15 or 16 because about 50% of the kids decide to stay at their base school anyway (e.g., school bus, friendship issue...etc.). However, for central schools, they have a lot more applicants from their own school because they have more of those smart kids and tiger parents, they can't give everyone 15 or 16 because they can't host everyone (generally 3-4 AAP classrooms per grade), they also have to take significant number of kids from other schools that are at least 4-5 other schools. I think this alone explains a bit how competitive it might be at a central school to get 15 or 16.

It's a rare base school that retains 50% of its Level IV eligible kids! Only about 10% of the LIV kids stay at my kids' base school. The rest leave for the center. Base schools have the lowest motivation to give high GBRS, since more eligible kids means losing more smart kids, which in turn decreases the base school's SOL pass rates. Center schools lose nothing at all, since they would keep the same kids either way. The only difference is the classroom the kids are placed in.

I would guess that centers give the most accurate GBRS. They are probably better at evaluating which 2nd graders belong in the program and which ones are best served in gen ed, and they probably assign GBRS accordingly. Base schools don't necessarily have as clear of a picture as to how advanced the AAP classrooms actually are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
What you are describing is a selection bias.

Maybe from the non-center schools only the parents of kids who are in pool, or who are really advanced will try, hence higher GBRSs, whereas for center schools more parents, regardless of the academic quality of their kids, will apply for AAP, since they are not moving schools. This does not mean that the standard is different, it can just mean that a larger variety of kids apply from the center school, including those who would not qualify even if at a non-center school.

I agree. I bet parents are MUCH more motivated to do everything in their power to get their children placed into AAP in center or LLIV schools than they are in base schools. Not only would there be many more applications, but the local committees might also be a bit more skeptical about prepping and anything else smacking of overly involved parents.

[Anonymous]

I’m 99.99% sure the principal/ AP plays zero role in the GBRS (at our base school) other than making sure all rules are followed.

I haven’t sat in on GBRS scoring session but I’ve sat in a 504 meeting where the principal / AP were required to be.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know whose names go on the form. The point is whose opinion counts. The admin can't really have a valid opinion other than make sure that the work samples warrant the rating.

Principal here: it’s truly a group decision. I do know the kids and take the time to observe them in class. And I know the ratings scale. The AART and the teacher have their viewpoints as well. We ask each other questions about the child, and we look at the work together. We come to consensus and collaborate to write the comments using the exemplar statements for each category.

How would you know which kid to observe in class if they are not in the pool by the NNAT?

And is it true (like another poster said) that GBRSs from non-center schools are higher than those from center schools?

Typically, principals or assistant principals visit 2nd grade classrooms in the fall so they can start to observe the kids in the pool based on NNAT scores. And then once they can do that for the rest of the kids from December through February. Their visit is typically very short 5-10 mins each classroom so I can't say they collect significant data from those visits.

It all depends on which center school we're talking about but generally speaking central schools have a lot more kids and more kids who are smart and advanced in math and reading..etc. so naturally it's more competitive and that includes GBRSs too.

I don’t think I agree that on average in grades K-2 Center schools have smarter / more advanced kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
For non-central schools, there is nothing to lose if they literally give every child 15 or 16 because about 50% of the kids decide to stay at their base school anyway (e.g., school bus, friendship issue...etc.). However, for central schools, they have a lot more applicants from their own school because they have more of those smart kids and tiger parents, they can't give everyone 15 or 16 because they can't host everyone (generally 3-4 AAP classrooms per grade), they also have to take significant number of kids from other schools that are at least 4-5 other schools. I think this alone explains a bit how competitive it might be at a central school to get 15 or 16.

It's a rare base school that retains 50% of its Level IV eligible kids! Only about 10% of the LIV kids stay at my kids' base school. The rest leave for the center. Base schools have the lowest motivation to give high GBRS, since more eligible kids means losing more smart kids, which in turn decreases the base school's SOL pass rates. Center schools lose nothing at all, since they would keep the same kids either way. The only difference is the classroom the kids are placed in.

I would guess that centers give the most accurate GBRS. They are probably better at evaluating which 2nd graders belong in the program and which ones are best served in gen ed, and they probably assign GBRS accordingly. Base schools don't necessarily have as clear of a picture as to how advanced the AAP classrooms actually are.

Plus not all schools even have Local Level IV