Shaw Middle School -- what's the plan?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Get real. Shaw middle school would be a big waste like brook land middle. Shiny and new and under enrolled and under performing. NONE of the proposed rigor for brook land came through, no diversity at all. Shaw is even at more of a disadvantage. No strong feeders. DCPS would never put I. Test classes or gifted classes at Shaw middle. Dream on gentrifier parents and hope you get into Latin or basis.

Huh? Ross is a very strong feeder with some of the best test scores in the city. But the kids leave after 3rd grade because they don't want to go to Cardozo. A decent middle school option would keep them there.

not likely at Shaw Middle. Ross is ONE school, how big a cohort would they send to shaw middle? Maybe 25 kids? And other lousy elems would send over a 100. for the school to succeed you need a lot more UMC parents. One solid feeder isnt going to cut it.

If the middle school would improve, the feeders would strengthen and grow. It's a positive feedback loop.

That positive feedback loop is already starting with SWW-FS. So why would families at Ross, Thomson or SWW-FS abandon that to go to Shaw MS or Cardozo for MS?

I don't think they will. But I do think they are strong schools with strong PTOs who mighr motivate to care about Shaw Middle even if they don't intend to send their own child. For the greater good-- imagine that.

The greater good is all good and everything, but would you drop SWW-FS, which is has a better chance at success for a complete uncertainty that is Shaw MS and a complete non-option like Cardozo? I wouldn't, and I doubt you would too.

I would not drop it, but I would show up to the meetings and make an effort and donate and generally support any proposal to make Shaw and Cardozo better. Just like Ross and SWW-FS were built up by parents who cared about the long term and the greater good.

Or who had a lot of money and time and political connections and wanted to leverage those things for the benefit of their kids. Most parents care about the "long term" and the "greater good." But some have paid time off they can use to go to the Wilson Building or office jobs where they can write a few emails while on the clock. You can't do that if you're making sandwiches at Subway.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:And SWW Middle school IS decent, though tiny. There is no world in which a Shaw Middle would definitely be better, such that you could count on Ross families choosing to attend.

You need to think about it more broadly. Some people try to help their middle school for the sake of all the kids, even if they're not planning to enroll their own child. And the quality of the middle school affects the feeder elementaries. I am only a preschool mom and I don't know much, but I do understand that middle school is a major reason for our attrition. If Shaw Middle happened and did well enough that people had some hope for it, that would help Seaton retain kids better and become a better school than it is now. Which would in turn help the middle school. Maybe I send my own kid to Shaw middle, maybe I don't, but an improved middle school would benefit Seaton in the long run regardless.

Why must it be Shaw middle? Cardozo has the same students feeding to it.

There are not enough kids to fill both buildings. DCPS is being smart to give the old Shaw space to Banneker -- a school that desperately needs upgraded facilities which serves students city-wide. Perhaps even your preschooler someday.

Because Banneker can use the building it has, it just needs a swing space during renovations. Shaw Middle is a good idea because it will be better for middle school kids to be separate from the high school. It's more age-appropriate and they will get more attention focused to their age group needs. Also, it's closer to the feeder schools and the metro.

There are not enough kids to fill both a Shaw MS and Cardozo.

McKinley MS and HS students share a building, but never cross paths. Same will be the case with North Middle and Coolidge once renovated.

Banneker's building is too small to be a modern high school; it is the highest performing high school in the city. It needs a world class space.

It's not about whether the kids mingle with each other. It's about having its own principal rather than a constant churn of APs. It's about the middle school getting dedicated care and attention, which doesn't happen if a middle school is in the shadow of its high school.

Look at the plans for Coolidge-- lots of care and attention went into that (unrealistic though it may be). Is there any plan for the middle school other than moving into a combined building? Not that I know of! (Yet we are supposed to believe that the high school will be awesome even though its middle school feeder is low-performing).

I don't think people care about this as much as you'd expect. After all, Francis-Stevens middle school shares a principal with a whole PK3-5 elementary program AND a high school that has completely different admissions standards and is located a mile away, and people seem to be increasingly willing to try it. I'd love to see Francis-Stevens stop having a middle school so it can take more elementary kids and get its own principal. Then all the kids from the now-bigger F-S elementary, plus Cleveland (except kids in the dual language program who want to go to MacFarland), Garrison, Ross, Seaton, and Thomson would go to Cardozo. Even though some kid would undoubtedly peel off I think that's a big enough set of feeders to get a decently-sized middle school, able to do things like field sports teams and host clubs and offer more than one foreign language and have some tracked classes.

One principal might be enough for SWW, because it is already a well-functioning school. But turning around Cardozo 9th-12th is more than a full-time job in itself. People are willing to try SWW because the performance and behavior is far, far better than Cardozo. How that changes without better administration and consistency is a mystery to me. Cardozo middle burns through APs about one per year.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Get real. Shaw middle school would be a big waste like brook land middle. Shiny and new and under enrolled and under performing. NONE of the proposed rigor for brook land came through, no diversity at all. Shaw is even at more of a disadvantage. No strong feeders. DCPS would never put I. Test classes or gifted classes at Shaw middle. Dream on gentrifier parents and hope you get into Latin or basis.

Huh? Ross is a very strong feeder with some of the best test scores in the city. But the kids leave after 3rd grade because they don't want to go to Cardozo. A decent middle school option would keep them there.

not likely at Shaw Middle. Ross is ONE school, how big a cohort would they send to shaw middle? Maybe 25 kids? And other lousy elems would send over a 100. for the school to succeed you need a lot more UMC parents. One solid feeder isnt going to cut it.

If the middle school would improve, the feeders would strengthen and grow. It's a positive feedback loop.

That positive feedback loop is already starting with SWW-FS. So why would families at Ross, Thomson or SWW-FS abandon that to go to Shaw MS or Cardozo for MS?

I don't think they will. But I do think they are strong schools with strong PTOs who mighr motivate to care about Shaw Middle even if they don't intend to send their own child. For the greater good-- imagine that.

The greater good is all good and everything, but would you drop SWW-FS, which is has a better chance at success for a complete uncertainty that is Shaw MS and a complete non-option like Cardozo? I wouldn't, and I doubt you would too.

I would not drop it, but I would show up to the meetings and make an effort and donate and generally support any proposal to make Shaw and Cardozo better. Just like Ross and SWW-FS were built up by parents who cared about the long term and the greater good.

The problem is that according to the recent feeder path, as soon as Shaw MS is up and running, the feeder option to SWW-FS for Thomson and Ross families is over. So there is no incentive for those families to support a Shaw MS, and by supporting Shaw MS they are effectively dropping their option to SWW-FS.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Get real. Shaw middle school would be a big waste like brook land middle. Shiny and new and under enrolled and under performing. NONE of the proposed rigor for brook land came through, no diversity at all. Shaw is even at more of a disadvantage. No strong feeders. DCPS would never put I. Test classes or gifted classes at Shaw middle. Dream on gentrifier parents and hope you get into Latin or basis.

Huh? Ross is a very strong feeder with some of the best test scores in the city. But the kids leave after 3rd grade because they don't want to go to Cardozo. A decent middle school option would keep them there.

not likely at Shaw Middle. Ross is ONE school, how big a cohort would they send to shaw middle? Maybe 25 kids? And other lousy elems would send over a 100. for the school to succeed you need a lot more UMC parents. One solid feeder isnt going to cut it.

If the middle school would improve, the feeders would strengthen and grow. It's a positive feedback loop.

That positive feedback loop is already starting with SWW-FS. So why would families at Ross, Thomson or SWW-FS abandon that to go to Shaw MS or Cardozo for MS?

I don't think they will. But I do think they are strong schools with strong PTOs who mighr motivate to care about Shaw Middle even if they don't intend to send their own child. For the greater good-- imagine that.

The greater good is all good and everything, but would you drop SWW-FS, which is has a better chance at success for a complete uncertainty that is Shaw MS and a complete non-option like Cardozo? I wouldn't, and I doubt you would too.

I would not drop it, but I would show up to the meetings and make an effort and donate and generally support any proposal to make Shaw and Cardozo better. Just like Ross and SWW-FS were built up by parents who cared about the long term and the greater good.

The problem is that according to the recent feeder path, as soon as Shaw MS is up and running, the feeder option to SWW-FS for Thomson and Ross families is over. So there is no incentive for those families to support a Shaw MS, and by supporting Shaw MS they are effectively dropping their option to SWW-FS.

How do you know that's true? I kind of doubt it would be politically possible to take that away. In the long run, as a Ross family, I might prefer Shaw for location and because it might end up being a larger school with more offerings than SWW-FS in those grades. But I don't see how they could take it away.

Regardless, anything would be better than Cardozo middle as it is now.

[Anonymous]

According the boundary and feeder pathway put in place by the mayor in 2014, the Ross/Thomson feed to F-S was always temporary (pending construction of Shaw MS). Once/if Shaw MS is build, Ross and Thomson families will have little choice.
https://dme.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/dme/publication/attachments/Ross.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Get real. Shaw middle school would be a big waste like brook land middle. Shiny and new and under enrolled and under performing. NONE of the proposed rigor for brook land came through, no diversity at all. Shaw is even at more of a disadvantage. No strong feeders. DCPS would never put I. Test classes or gifted classes at Shaw middle. Dream on gentrifier parents and hope you get into Latin or basis.

Huh? Ross is a very strong feeder with some of the best test scores in the city. But the kids leave after 3rd grade because they don't want to go to Cardozo. A decent middle school option would keep them there.

not likely at Shaw Middle. Ross is ONE school, how big a cohort would they send to shaw middle? Maybe 25 kids? And other lousy elems would send over a 100. for the school to succeed you need a lot more UMC parents. One solid feeder isnt going to cut it.

If the middle school would improve, the feeders would strengthen and grow. It's a positive feedback loop.

That positive feedback loop is already starting with SWW-FS. So why would families at Ross, Thomson or SWW-FS abandon that to go to Shaw MS or Cardozo for MS?

I don't think they will. But I do think they are strong schools with strong PTOs who mighr motivate to care about Shaw Middle even if they don't intend to send their own child. For the greater good-- imagine that.

The greater good is all good and everything, but would you drop SWW-FS, which is has a better chance at success for a complete uncertainty that is Shaw MS and a complete non-option like Cardozo? I wouldn't, and I doubt you would too.

I would not drop it, but I would show up to the meetings and make an effort and donate and generally support any proposal to make Shaw and Cardozo better. Just like Ross and SWW-FS were built up by parents who cared about the long term and the greater good.

The problem is that according to the recent feeder path, as soon as Shaw MS is up and running, the feeder option to SWW-FS for Thomson and Ross families is over. So there is no incentive for those families to support a Shaw MS, and by supporting Shaw MS they are effectively dropping their option to SWW-FS.

How do you know that's true? I kind of doubt it would be politically possible to take that away. In the long run, as a Ross family, I might prefer Shaw for location and because it might end up being a larger school with more offerings than SWW-FS in those grades. But I don't see how they could take it away.

Regardless, anything would be better than Cardozo middle as it is now.

It is right in the boundary/feeder plan, which was approved in 2014: https://dme.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/dme/publication/attachments/Shaw.pdf

Until Shaw MS reopens, families will have a right to attend the middle grades at SWW at Francis-Stevens and maintain the right to attend the middle school they are currently assigned to. But once it opens, then families will be zoned for Shaw MS. DC can take that feeder away and they will. You might prefer Shaw, but I would venture to guess that you would be in the minority.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Get real. Shaw middle school would be a big waste like brook land middle. Shiny and new and under enrolled and under performing. NONE of the proposed rigor for brook land came through, no diversity at all. Shaw is even at more of a disadvantage. No strong feeders. DCPS would never put I. Test classes or gifted classes at Shaw middle. Dream on gentrifier parents and hope you get into Latin or basis.

Huh? Ross is a very strong feeder with some of the best test scores in the city. But the kids leave after 3rd grade because they don't want to go to Cardozo. A decent middle school option would keep them there.

not likely at Shaw Middle. Ross is ONE school, how big a cohort would they send to shaw middle? Maybe 25 kids? And other lousy elems would send over a 100. for the school to succeed you need a lot more UMC parents. One solid feeder isnt going to cut it.

If the middle school would improve, the feeders would strengthen and grow. It's a positive feedback loop.

That positive feedback loop is already starting with SWW-FS. So why would families at Ross, Thomson or SWW-FS abandon that to go to Shaw MS or Cardozo for MS?

I don't think they will. But I do think they are strong schools with strong PTOs who mighr motivate to care about Shaw Middle even if they don't intend to send their own child. For the greater good-- imagine that.

The greater good is all good and everything, but would you drop SWW-FS, which is has a better chance at success for a complete uncertainty that is Shaw MS and a complete non-option like Cardozo? I wouldn't, and I doubt you would too.

I would not drop it, but I would show up to the meetings and make an effort and donate and generally support any proposal to make Shaw and Cardozo better. Just like Ross and SWW-FS were built up by parents who cared about the long term and the greater good.

The problem is that according to the recent feeder path, as soon as Shaw MS is up and running, the feeder option to SWW-FS for Thomson and Ross families is over. So there is no incentive for those families to support a Shaw MS, and by supporting Shaw MS they are effectively dropping their option to SWW-FS.

How do you know that's true? I kind of doubt it would be politically possible to take that away. In the long run, as a Ross family, I might prefer Shaw for location and because it might end up being a larger school with more offerings than SWW-FS in those grades. But I don't see how they could take it away.

Regardless, anything would be better than Cardozo middle as it is now.

It is right in the boundary/feeder plan, which was approved in 2014: https://dme.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/dme/publication/attachments/Shaw.pdf

Until Shaw MS reopens, families will have a right to attend the middle grades at SWW at Francis-Stevens and maintain the right to attend the middle school they are currently assigned to. But once it opens, then families will be zoned for Shaw MS. DC can take that feeder away and they will. You might prefer Shaw, but I would venture to guess that you would be in the minority.

Right, but I don't think it will happen, because it isn't politically possible. Just like the plan says they will open Shaw MS and now they want to give it to Banneker instead. The plan isn't what really happens.

[Anonymous]

That plan was 3 DMEs and one mayor ago. It isn’t binding.

[Anonymous]

That's why I think that Francis-Stevens middle school should go away and all the kids who go there AND all the kids who would go to Shaw MS should have a single MS feeder....which could be Cardozo. Then people won't feel like they need to advocate against opening a new middle school for fear of losing one they see as workable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:That's why I think that Francis-Stevens middle school should go away and all the kids who go there AND all the kids who would go to Shaw MS should have a single MS feeder....which could be Cardozo. Then people won't feel like they need to advocate against opening a new middle school for fear of losing one they see as workable.

You do realize that just means no one will stay in DCPS for 5th and up, right?

[Anonymous]

By the time all of this is completed, many of us have kids who will already be in high school. It will take years for a new MS to be built, if it even happens.

[Anonymous]

If Banneker is proposed to get a new building at the Shaw site, then the "new" MS would be located the old Banneker building, not at the Shaw site, correct?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If Banneker is proposed to get a new building at the Shaw site, then the "new" MS would be located the old Banneker building, not at the Shaw site, correct?

Correct or the Garnett Patterson building.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That's why I think that Francis-Stevens middle school should go away and all the kids who go there AND all the kids who would go to Shaw MS should have a single MS feeder....which could be Cardozo. Then people won't feel like they need to advocate against opening a new middle school for fear of losing one they see as workable.

You do realize that just means no one will stay in DCPS for 5th and up, right?

It would be political suicide for a Mayor and any DC Councilmember to endorse such a proposal. That's why taking away SWW-FS, which had the highest number of waitlisted students, from families and forcing them to go to Cardozo, an under-enrolled, low performing school, will never fly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That's why I think that Francis-Stevens middle school should go away and all the kids who go there AND all the kids who would go to Shaw MS should have a single MS feeder....which could be Cardozo. Then people won't feel like they need to advocate against opening a new middle school for fear of losing one they see as workable.

You do realize that just means no one will stay in DCPS for 5th and up, right?

It would be political suicide for a Mayor and any DC Councilmember to endorse such a proposal. That's why taking away SWW-FS, which had the highest number of waitlisted students, from families and forcing them to go to Cardozo, an under-enrolled, low performing school, will never fly.

Political suicide for a mayor who is running unopposed to piss off a few dozen rich white families? Nah. The power center of DC politics is nowhere near the Francis-Stevens boundary.