Shaw Middle School -- what's the plan?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And SWW Middle school IS decent, though tiny. There is no world in which a Shaw Middle would definitely be better, such that you could count on Ross families choosing to attend.

You need to think about it more broadly. Some people try to help their middle school for the sake of all the kids, even if they're not planning to enroll their own child. And the quality of the middle school affects the feeder elementaries. I am only a preschool mom and I don't know much, but I do understand that middle school is a major reason for our attrition. If Shaw Middle happened and did well enough that people had some hope for it, that would help Seaton retain kids better and become a better school than it is now. Which would in turn help the middle school. Maybe I send my own kid to Shaw middle, maybe I don't, but an improved middle school would benefit Seaton in the long run regardless.

Why must it be Shaw middle? Cardozo has the same students feeding to it.

There are not enough kids to fill both buildings. DCPS is being smart to give the old Shaw space to Banneker -- a school that desperately needs upgraded facilities which serves students city-wide. Perhaps even your preschooler someday.

Because Banneker can use the building it has, it just needs a swing space during renovations. Shaw Middle is a good idea because it will be better for middle school kids to be separate from the high school. It's more age-appropriate and they will get more attention focused to their age group needs. Also, it's closer to the feeder schools and the metro.

There are not enough kids to fill both a Shaw MS and Cardozo.

McKinley MS and HS students share a building, but never cross paths. Same will be the case with North Middle and Coolidge once renovated.

Banneker's building is too small to be a modern high school; it is the highest performing high school in the city. It needs a world class space.

It's not about whether the kids mingle with each other. It's about having its own principal rather than a constant churn of APs. It's about the middle school getting dedicated care and attention, which doesn't happen if a middle school is in the shadow of its high school.

Look at the plans for Coolidge-- lots of care and attention went into that (unrealistic though it may be). Is there any plan for the middle school other than moving into a combined building? Not that I know of! (Yet we are supposed to believe that the high school will be awesome even though its middle school feeder is low-performing).

[Anonymous]

Coolidge is a whole other kind of mess -- the feeders will go into the career programs. '

The early college will be application only -- so a college bound neighborhood kid will not have an IB 'regular' high school option. DCPS seems fine with telling them to just lottery into another school.

But anyway -- the first step for Shaw parents is to change Ross' feed to Cardozo, not give them an exit ramp to SWW @ FS.

Then work on your elementary schools and high school. MS is just the excuse for people leaving at 3rd or 4th. The high school is the big issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Coolidge is a whole other kind of mess -- the feeders will go into the career programs. '

The early college will be application only -- so a college bound neighborhood kid will not have an IB 'regular' high school option. DCPS seems fine with telling them to just lottery into another school.

But anyway -- the first step for Shaw parents is to change Ross' feed to Cardozo, not give them an exit ramp to SWW @ FS.

Then work on your elementary schools and high school. MS is just the excuse for people leaving at 3rd or 4th. The high school is the big issue.

The Coolidge career programs will suck, because the middle school will suck, because there is no plan to make it not suck.

Ross parents would never tolerate that.

Call me crazy but I think if people can get Stuart-Hobson to a borderline acceptable place, it can happen elsewhere too. High school is more difficult.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Coolidge is a whole other kind of mess -- the feeders will go into the career programs. '

The early college will be application only -- so a college bound neighborhood kid will not have an IB 'regular' high school option. DCPS seems fine with telling them to just lottery into another school.

But anyway -- the first step for Shaw parents is to change Ross' feed to Cardozo, not give them an exit ramp to SWW @ FS.

Then work on your elementary schools and high school. MS is just the excuse for people leaving at 3rd or 4th. The high school is the big issue.

The Coolidge career programs will suck, because the middle school will suck, because there is no plan to make it not suck.

Ross parents would never tolerate that.

Call me crazy but I think if people can get Stuart-Hobson to a borderline acceptable place, it can happen elsewhere too. High school is more difficult.

Ross, together with Thomson were given feeder rights to School Without Walls at Francis-Stevens as part of the DME's boundary review process in 2014. Designed as a place holder until Shaw MS reopens. Can't see DCPS changing this until they have a MS in place. Francis-Stevens could shift back to an ES model also. A MS at the current Banneker building with feeds from Ross, Thomson, Francis, Seaton, Garrison and Cleveland would be an option. Timeframe would not be less than 5-6 years given Banneker's move to Shaw and the need to modernize Banneker. A lot changes in that time.

[Anonymous]

Good for Banneker! Sad to see a poster complain about this move when the building has been sitting empty for who knows how long.

Damn if they do, damn if they don’t. No wonder DCPS turns the opposite way on some people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Seaton, Garrison, Cleveland, Ross, and Thompson together could make a good middle school happen. I don't know why people aren't more interested.

Sigh. This coming from someone outside these school communities, I'm sure. Because guess what? Parents in these schools DID band together to try to make it happen and have gotten NOWHERE with DCPS over the course of years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Seaton, Garrison, Cleveland, Ross, and Thompson together could make a good middle school happen. I don't know why people aren't more interested.

Sigh. This coming from someone outside these school communities, I'm sure. Because guess what? Parents in these schools DID band together to try to make it happen and have gotten NOWHERE with DCPS over the course of years.

What did they do?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Seaton, Garrison, Cleveland, Ross, and Thompson together could make a good middle school happen. I don't know why people aren't more interested.

Sigh. This coming from someone outside these school communities, I'm sure. Because guess what? Parents in these schools DID band together to try to make it happen and have gotten NOWHERE with DCPS over the course of years.

Up until recently, only Ross (and maybe Thomson) have been doing well in terms of test scores. It's arguable whether Garrison and Cleveland can be considered strong enough to contribute to a viable cohort for a good middle school. Seaton has not always been considered a strong school even if it may be desirable now and for last 2 or 3 years. In other words, there may be a will to make this happen now but it wasn't always the case. I don't see any traction for this, especially when Ross, Thomson, and SWW-FS, makes for a much stronger feeder for MS than Seaton, Garrison, Cleveland, Ross, and Thomson going to a Shaw MS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Get real. Shaw middle school would be a big waste like brook land middle. Shiny and new and under enrolled and under performing. NONE of the proposed rigor for brook land came through, no diversity at all. Shaw is even at more of a disadvantage. No strong feeders. DCPS would never put I. Test classes or gifted classes at Shaw middle. Dream on gentrifier parents and hope you get into Latin or basis.

Huh? Ross is a very strong feeder with some of the best test scores in the city. But the kids leave after 3rd grade because they don't want to go to Cardozo. A decent middle school option would keep them there.

not likely at Shaw Middle. Ross is ONE school, how big a cohort would they send to shaw middle? Maybe 25 kids? And other lousy elems would send over a 100. for the school to succeed you need a lot more UMC parents. One solid feeder isnt going to cut it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Get real. Shaw middle school would be a big waste like brook land middle. Shiny and new and under enrolled and under performing. NONE of the proposed rigor for brook land came through, no diversity at all. Shaw is even at more of a disadvantage. No strong feeders. DCPS would never put I. Test classes or gifted classes at Shaw middle. Dream on gentrifier parents and hope you get into Latin or basis.

Huh? Ross is a very strong feeder with some of the best test scores in the city. But the kids leave after 3rd grade because they don't want to go to Cardozo. A decent middle school option would keep them there.

not likely at Shaw Middle. Ross is ONE school, how big a cohort would they send to shaw middle? Maybe 25 kids? And other lousy elems would send over a 100. for the school to succeed you need a lot more UMC parents. One solid feeder isnt going to cut it.

If the middle school would improve, the feeders would strengthen and grow. It's a positive feedback loop.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Get real. Shaw middle school would be a big waste like brook land middle. Shiny and new and under enrolled and under performing. NONE of the proposed rigor for brook land came through, no diversity at all. Shaw is even at more of a disadvantage. No strong feeders. DCPS would never put I. Test classes or gifted classes at Shaw middle. Dream on gentrifier parents and hope you get into Latin or basis.

Huh? Ross is a very strong feeder with some of the best test scores in the city. But the kids leave after 3rd grade because they don't want to go to Cardozo. A decent middle school option would keep them there.

not likely at Shaw Middle. Ross is ONE school, how big a cohort would they send to shaw middle? Maybe 25 kids? And other lousy elems would send over a 100. for the school to succeed you need a lot more UMC parents. One solid feeder isnt going to cut it.

If the middle school would improve, the feeders would strengthen and grow. It's a positive feedback loop.

That positive feedback loop is already starting with SWW-FS. So why would families at Ross, Thomson or SWW-FS abandon that to go to Shaw MS or Cardozo for MS?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Get real. Shaw middle school would be a big waste like brook land middle. Shiny and new and under enrolled and under performing. NONE of the proposed rigor for brook land came through, no diversity at all. Shaw is even at more of a disadvantage. No strong feeders. DCPS would never put I. Test classes or gifted classes at Shaw middle. Dream on gentrifier parents and hope you get into Latin or basis.

Huh? Ross is a very strong feeder with some of the best test scores in the city. But the kids leave after 3rd grade because they don't want to go to Cardozo. A decent middle school option would keep them there.

not likely at Shaw Middle. Ross is ONE school, how big a cohort would they send to shaw middle? Maybe 25 kids? And other lousy elems would send over a 100. for the school to succeed you need a lot more UMC parents. One solid feeder isnt going to cut it.

If the middle school would improve, the feeders would strengthen and grow. It's a positive feedback loop.

That positive feedback loop is already starting with SWW-FS. So why would families at Ross, Thomson or SWW-FS abandon that to go to Shaw MS or Cardozo for MS?

I don't think they will. But I do think they are strong schools with strong PTOs who mighr motivate to care about Shaw Middle even if they don't intend to send their own child. For the greater good-- imagine that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Get real. Shaw middle school would be a big waste like brook land middle. Shiny and new and under enrolled and under performing. NONE of the proposed rigor for brook land came through, no diversity at all. Shaw is even at more of a disadvantage. No strong feeders. DCPS would never put I. Test classes or gifted classes at Shaw middle. Dream on gentrifier parents and hope you get into Latin or basis.

Huh? Ross is a very strong feeder with some of the best test scores in the city. But the kids leave after 3rd grade because they don't want to go to Cardozo. A decent middle school option would keep them there.

not likely at Shaw Middle. Ross is ONE school, how big a cohort would they send to shaw middle? Maybe 25 kids? And other lousy elems would send over a 100. for the school to succeed you need a lot more UMC parents. One solid feeder isnt going to cut it.

If the middle school would improve, the feeders would strengthen and grow. It's a positive feedback loop.

That positive feedback loop is already starting with SWW-FS. So why would families at Ross, Thomson or SWW-FS abandon that to go to Shaw MS or Cardozo for MS?

I don't think they will. But I do think they are strong schools with strong PTOs who mighr motivate to care about Shaw Middle even if they don't intend to send their own child. For the greater good-- imagine that.

The greater good is all good and everything, but would you drop SWW-FS, which is has a better chance at success for a complete uncertainty that is Shaw MS and a complete non-option like Cardozo? I wouldn't, and I doubt you would too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Get real. Shaw middle school would be a big waste like brook land middle. Shiny and new and under enrolled and under performing. NONE of the proposed rigor for brook land came through, no diversity at all. Shaw is even at more of a disadvantage. No strong feeders. DCPS would never put I. Test classes or gifted classes at Shaw middle. Dream on gentrifier parents and hope you get into Latin or basis.

Huh? Ross is a very strong feeder with some of the best test scores in the city. But the kids leave after 3rd grade because they don't want to go to Cardozo. A decent middle school option would keep them there.

not likely at Shaw Middle. Ross is ONE school, how big a cohort would they send to shaw middle? Maybe 25 kids? And other lousy elems would send over a 100. for the school to succeed you need a lot more UMC parents. One solid feeder isnt going to cut it.

If the middle school would improve, the feeders would strengthen and grow. It's a positive feedback loop.

That positive feedback loop is already starting with SWW-FS. So why would families at Ross, Thomson or SWW-FS abandon that to go to Shaw MS or Cardozo for MS?

I don't think they will. But I do think they are strong schools with strong PTOs who mighr motivate to care about Shaw Middle even if they don't intend to send their own child. For the greater good-- imagine that.

The greater good is all good and everything, but would you drop SWW-FS, which is has a better chance at success for a complete uncertainty that is Shaw MS and a complete non-option like Cardozo? I wouldn't, and I doubt you would too.

I would not drop it, but I would show up to the meetings and make an effort and donate and generally support any proposal to make Shaw and Cardozo better. Just like Ross and SWW-FS were built up by parents who cared about the long term and the greater good.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And SWW Middle school IS decent, though tiny. There is no world in which a Shaw Middle would definitely be better, such that you could count on Ross families choosing to attend.

You need to think about it more broadly. Some people try to help their middle school for the sake of all the kids, even if they're not planning to enroll their own child. And the quality of the middle school affects the feeder elementaries. I am only a preschool mom and I don't know much, but I do understand that middle school is a major reason for our attrition. If Shaw Middle happened and did well enough that people had some hope for it, that would help Seaton retain kids better and become a better school than it is now. Which would in turn help the middle school. Maybe I send my own kid to Shaw middle, maybe I don't, but an improved middle school would benefit Seaton in the long run regardless.

Why must it be Shaw middle? Cardozo has the same students feeding to it.

There are not enough kids to fill both buildings. DCPS is being smart to give the old Shaw space to Banneker -- a school that desperately needs upgraded facilities which serves students city-wide. Perhaps even your preschooler someday.

Because Banneker can use the building it has, it just needs a swing space during renovations. Shaw Middle is a good idea because it will be better for middle school kids to be separate from the high school. It's more age-appropriate and they will get more attention focused to their age group needs. Also, it's closer to the feeder schools and the metro.

There are not enough kids to fill both a Shaw MS and Cardozo.

McKinley MS and HS students share a building, but never cross paths. Same will be the case with North Middle and Coolidge once renovated.

Banneker's building is too small to be a modern high school; it is the highest performing high school in the city. It needs a world class space.

It's not about whether the kids mingle with each other. It's about having its own principal rather than a constant churn of APs. It's about the middle school getting dedicated care and attention, which doesn't happen if a middle school is in the shadow of its high school.

Look at the plans for Coolidge-- lots of care and attention went into that (unrealistic though it may be). Is there any plan for the middle school other than moving into a combined building? Not that I know of! (Yet we are supposed to believe that the high school will be awesome even though its middle school feeder is low-performing).

I don't think people care about this as much as you'd expect. After all, Francis-Stevens middle school shares a principal with a whole PK3-5 elementary program AND a high school that has completely different admissions standards and is located a mile away, and people seem to be increasingly willing to try it. I'd love to see Francis-Stevens stop having a middle school so it can take more elementary kids and get its own principal. Then all the kids from the now-bigger F-S elementary, plus Cleveland (except kids in the dual language program who want to go to MacFarland), Garrison, Ross, Seaton, and Thomson would go to Cardozo. Even though some kid would undoubtedly peel off I think that's a big enough set of feeders to get a decently-sized middle school, able to do things like field sports teams and host clubs and offer more than one foreign language and have some tracked classes.