Lawmakers told Maryland Schools are Complacent and Middle of the Pack

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Catholic schools are the way to go.

Maybe.
Even highly regarded Catholic schools like Holy Cross or Good Counsel have median SAT scores around 1700 which is lower than Wootton, Churchill and Whitman (all with median SAT scores around 1850). Walter Johnson, BCC and RM also do better with median SAT scores around 1750.
Gonzaga does very well and is probably comparable to the top public high schools in the area

Holy Cross and Good Counsel are not among the most highly regarded Catholic schools. And Catholic schools don't teach to the test. My son, who scored in the 89th% on PSAT, has a C average in a well regarded Catholic school.

Any elite private school (Catholic or non Catholic) might well be a better option than a MCPS public school but the earlier poster suggested that catholic schools were superior and I’ m saying I don’t think that is the case
Also there is no prep for SAT exams in MCPS high schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maryland was ranked number one in the country in the same survey only three years ago. Thanks Hogan.

Is that true? That’s pretty far to fall in just a few years.

Maryland was ranked number one in country 2009 through 2013. http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/education/bs-md-maryland-number-three-20150108-story.html

You can't blame Hogan for this (and I'm not a fan tbh). Nancy Grasmick retired in 2011. Ever since then, the system has been quickly spiraling downward.

Below is a letter from MSEA to Lillian Lowery (Grasmick's short-lived replacement) regarding the new disciplinary measures "adopted" by Maryland schools.
http://www.marylandeducators.org/sites/default/files/docs/communique/lowery_discipline_september_2013.pdf


The Code of Conduct, implemented under Lowery, stems from punitive measures inflicted upon systems if disciplinary approaches resulted in too many suspensions and expulsions. These measures were created during Obama's term.

You can't teach if classes are disrupted by unruly students. If a teacher is forced to "work with" two unruly students, the other 28 are sitting around waiting for instruction.

This is what is happening in Maryland schools. You can hide under your rocks or you can, as parents, demand action.

[Anonymous]

I agree with the pp regarding lack of discipline. The stories I hear are appalling. And I know for a fact that AA students are not suspended as a policy while white students are (for far lesser infractions). There have been multiple incidents at our middle school that I can point to. The policy is to blame.

How can students learn when the bad apples are routinely acting out, telling the teacher to F off, etc.? Most teachers don't even bother to call security. What's the point? They don't do anything.

Kids need boundaries. Once the bar was set low, everything changed for the worse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maryland was ranked number one in the country in the same survey only three years ago. Thanks Hogan.

Is that true? That’s pretty far to fall in just a few years.

Maryland was ranked number one in country 2009 through 2013. http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/education/bs-md-maryland-number-three-20150108-story.html

You can't blame Hogan for this (and I'm not a fan tbh). Nancy Grasmick retired in 2011. Ever since then, the system has been quickly spiraling downward.

Below is a letter from MSEA to Lillian Lowery (Grasmick's short-lived replacement) regarding the new disciplinary measures "adopted" by Maryland schools.
http://www.marylandeducators.org/sites/default/files/docs/communique/lowery_discipline_september_2013.pdf


The Code of Conduct, implemented under Lowery, stems from punitive measures inflicted upon systems if disciplinary approaches resulted in too many suspensions and expulsions. These measures were created during Obama's term.

You can't teach if classes are disrupted by unruly students. If a teacher is forced to "work with" two unruly students, the other 28 are sitting around waiting for instruction.

This is what is happening in Maryland schools. You can hide under your rocks or you can, as parents, demand action.

Maryland retained its number one ranking in Education Week ratings from 2009 until 2013. http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/education/bs-md-maryland-number-three-20150108-story.html There has been a rapid decline sinceHogan took office in January 2015.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

So it all boils down to having a positive role model, expectation of success and the desire to succeed. This is honestly nothing new. This is why students who have all of these things (primarily this comes from the home) do better than those who do not. No matter how much title one funding and special programs we throw at something, unless those 3 things are present, then forget it. Why do you think schools like Whitman, Wootton and Churchill are consistently at the top? It's because the majority of the students there have all the factors that enable success.

This is true, if "all the factors that enable success" = money.

Money and for sure income is an output. A human capital earnings function where income is a function of work experience, education, skills, references, etc.

Student success also is driven by stable family, reading books, family values, etc.

Thanks, Captain Obvious, for your original insight! By 'money' PP meant the parent's money, aka household income. That's what "the majority of the students there" have, and that allows them to attend afterschool tutoring that raises test scores and 'enables success'.

Most students at Whitman, Wootton, and Churchill attend afterschool tutoring? I didn't know that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

So it all boils down to having a positive role model, expectation of success and the desire to succeed. This is honestly nothing new. This is why students who have all of these things (primarily this comes from the home) do better than those who do not. No matter how much title one funding and special programs we throw at something, unless those 3 things are present, then forget it. Why do you think schools like Whitman, Wootton and Churchill are consistently at the top? It's because the majority of the students there have all the factors that enable success.

This is true, if "all the factors that enable success" = money.

Money and for sure income is an output. A human capital earnings function where income is a function of work experience, education, skills, references, etc.

Student success also is driven by stable family, reading books, family values, etc.

Thanks, Captain Obvious, for your original insight! By 'money' PP meant the parent's money, aka household income. That's what "the majority of the students there" have, and that allows them to attend afterschool tutoring that raises test scores and 'enables success'.

Most students at Whitman, Wootton, and Churchill attend afterschool tutoring? I didn't know that.

How did you think they score so well on tests and do so well overall? It's not the teaching. The teachers are no better than at any other school in the county.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theatlantic.com/amp/article/471564/

The best Asian school systems do not group by ability. They expect all students to achieve. They don't pour resources into HGCs, magnets, etc. Instead, they provide resources more fairly, with additional resources for kids at the first sign of falling behind.

They probably don't need to, since the curriculum is probably already at a level where there is less demand for HGCs, magnets, and so on. (One data point - look at the Singapore Math curriculum.)
They instead provide more resources for kids at the first sign of falling behind.

In MCPS, the curriculum is diluted, and so there is so much demand for HGCs/magnets/etc. Unfortunately, very few who need to be challenged have their needs met.


I am all for having a challenging curriculum and expecting all students to achieve.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theatlantic.com/amp/article/471564/

The best Asian school systems do not group by ability. They expect all students to achieve. They don't pour resources into HGCs, magnets, etc. Instead, they provide resources more fairly, with additional resources for kids at the first sign of falling behind.

They probably don't need to, since the curriculum is probably already at a level where there is less demand for HGCs, magnets, and so on. (One data point - look at the Singapore Math curriculum.)
They instead provide more resources for kids at the first sign of falling behind.

In MCPS, the curriculum is diluted, and so there is so much demand for HGCs/magnets/etc. Unfortunately, very few who need to be challenged have their needs met.


I am all for having a challenging curriculum and expecting all students to achieve.

I am the PP: to be clear, I meant they probably don't need to pour resources into HGCs, magnets, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

So it all boils down to having a positive role model, expectation of success and the desire to succeed. This is honestly nothing new. This is why students who have all of these things (primarily this comes from the home) do better than those who do not. No matter how much title one funding and special programs we throw at something, unless those 3 things are present, then forget it. Why do you think schools like Whitman, Wootton and Churchill are consistently at the top? It's because the majority of the students there have all the factors that enable success.

This is true, if "all the factors that enable success" = money.

Money and for sure income is an output. A human capital earnings function where income is a function of work experience, education, skills, references, etc.

Student success also is driven by stable family, reading books, family values, etc.

Thanks, Captain Obvious, for your original insight! By 'money' PP meant the parent's money, aka household income. That's what "the majority of the students there" have, and that allows them to attend afterschool tutoring that raises test scores and 'enables success'.

Most students at Whitman, Wootton, and Churchill attend afterschool tutoring? I didn't know that.

How did you think they score so well on tests and do so well overall? It's not the teaching. The teachers are no better than at any other school in the county.

They do their homework and their parents were good students before them and know what it looks like and hold them accountable. Kids like that do well most places save for the ones that fall through the cracks. What those schools don’t have is huge amounts of kids from the underclass pulling scores down.

There might be some tutoring but that isn’t “the” reason why. Just a better group of kids in a system designed specifically for them with the resources to keep up.

[Anonymous]

Maryland schools are slipping because the demographics are slipping. Look at the ratios of income and non-ESOL and map that to performance, it is lock step aligned.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

They do their homework and their parents were good students before them and know what it looks like and hold them accountable. Kids like that do well most places save for the ones that fall through the cracks. What those schools don’t have is huge amounts of kids from the underclass pulling scores down.

There might be some tutoring but that isn’t “the” reason why. Just a better group of kids in a system designed specifically for them with the resources to keep up.

The students at Bethesda and Potomac high schools are a better group of kids? Better than what? Better than whom?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

They do their homework and their parents were good students before them and know what it looks like and hold them accountable. Kids like that do well most places save for the ones that fall through the cracks. What those schools don’t have is huge amounts of kids from the underclass pulling scores down.

There might be some tutoring but that isn’t “the” reason why. Just a better group of kids in a system designed specifically for them with the resources to keep up.

The students at Bethesda and Potomac high schools are a better group of kids? Better than what? Better than whom?

Better students. Better at studenting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maryland was ranked number one in the country in the same survey only three years ago. Thanks Hogan.

Is that true? That’s pretty far to fall in just a few years.

Maryland was ranked number one in country 2009 through 2013. http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/education/bs-md-maryland-number-three-20150108-story.html

You can't blame Hogan for this (and I'm not a fan tbh). Nancy Grasmick retired in 2011. Ever since then, the system has been quickly spiraling downward.

Below is a letter from MSEA to Lillian Lowery (Grasmick's short-lived replacement) regarding the new disciplinary measures "adopted" by Maryland schools.
http://www.marylandeducators.org/sites/default/files/docs/communique/lowery_discipline_september_2013.pdf


The Code of Conduct, implemented under Lowery, stems from punitive measures inflicted upon systems if disciplinary approaches resulted in too many suspensions and expulsions. These measures were created during Obama's term.

You can't teach if classes are disrupted by unruly students. If a teacher is forced to "work with" two unruly students, the other 28 are sitting around waiting for instruction.

This is what is happening in Maryland schools. You can hide under your rocks or you can, as parents, demand action.

Maryland retained its number one ranking in Education Week ratings from 2009 until 2013. http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/education/bs-md-maryland-number-three-20150108-story.html There has been a rapid decline sinceHogan took office in January 2015.

You're going to blame Hogan for
***a disciplinary measure put in place before he arrived . . .
*** an increase in our ESOL population which affects how money is allocated across schools (http://www.bethesdamagazine.com/Bethesda-Magazine/September-October-2016/Are-Montgomery-County-Public-Schools-Still-the-Best/index.php?cparticle=2&siarticle=1)

Again, I didn't cast my vote for Hogan, but to blame him for problems created by growth explosion and lack of discipline is absurd.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Maryland schools are slipping because the demographics are slipping. Look at the ratios of income and non-ESOL and map that to performance, it is lock step aligned.

https://www.usnews.com/education/best-high-schools/articles/how-states-compare

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

So it all boils down to having a positive role model, expectation of success and the desire to succeed. This is honestly nothing new. This is why students who have all of these things (primarily this comes from the home) do better than those who do not. No matter how much title one funding and special programs we throw at something, unless those 3 things are present, then forget it. Why do you think schools like Whitman, Wootton and Churchill are consistently at the top? It's because the majority of the students there have all the factors that enable success.

This is true, if "all the factors that enable success" = money.

Money and for sure income is an output. A human capital earnings function where income is a function of work experience, education, skills, references, etc.

Student success also is driven by stable family, reading books, family values, etc.

Thanks, Captain Obvious, for your original insight! By 'money' PP meant the parent's money, aka household income. That's what "the majority of the students there" have, and that allows them to attend afterschool tutoring that raises test scores and 'enables success'.

Most students at Whitman, Wootton, and Churchill attend afterschool tutoring? I didn't know that.

How did you think they score so well on tests and do so well overall? It's not the teaching. The teachers are no better than at any other school in the county.

Those school districts should take their PARCC and MAP tests in November (and still knock the cover off the ball) and then go learn some real material the rest of the year, to the correct challenge level. This teach to the dumbed-down test curriculum is horrid. My kid does not need another June Pizza Party for his class scoring best on their PARCCs, he needs to learn, be challenged, be engaged, practice speaking/listening in class and be taught to potential!