What if Trump is right, and these countries really are shotholes

[Anonymous]

The language was undignified and unpresidential but the real problem is that by calling those countries shitholes in that manner he implied that the people who live in those countries have no value. Which is racist, or maybe just super douchey and elitist. Regardless, not very presidential regardless of any country's objective 'shithouse' score.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The hypocrisy is astounding.

The left is criticizing Trump for immigration policy based on country of origin, or characteristics of country of origin, rather than individual merit, while simultaneously wanting to keep the diversity immigrant visa program, which is THE EXACT SAME THING: allowing immigrants purely on the identity and characteristics of certain nations, rather than individual merit of the applicants.

No they are criticizing the conflation of merit based with country based. Which A. Shows a lack of understanding of the policy issues B. Carries hints of racism (Norway has more "merit" than Ghana, heh heh)

Sorry, what? Isn't it the point of the Diversity Immigration Visa program that immigrants from certain countries, or countries with certain characteristics, have qualities (i.e. merit) that is beneficial to the US?

No, it was to increase the number of immigrants from countries currently sending relatively few under existing laws. IE "diversity". No reference to the social or economic conditions of said countries, or the implicit call out to race in Trump's remark.

[Anonymous]

This made my day:

http://dailycaller.com/2018/01/15/san-francisco-defecation-map/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The language was undignified and unpresidential but the real problem is that by calling those countries shitholes in that manner he implied that the people who live in those countries have no value. Which is racist, or maybe just super douchey and elitist. Regardless, not very presidential regardless of any country's objective 'shithouse' score.

How would you characterize yourself for equating having value with getting legal permission to immigrate in the U.S.? Elitist? Racist?

Yes, the third world is appallingly awful. You may even call it a shithole. What brings you to the conclusion that shitholes are void of good people, is beyond me. Immigration to the U.S. is not the measure of human value, I assure you. You are being extremely offensive, and I want you to know that.

--an immigrant

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The language was undignified and unpresidential but the real problem is that by calling those countries shitholes in that manner he implied that the people who live in those countries have no value. Which is racist, or maybe just super douchey and elitist. Regardless, not very presidential regardless of any country's objective 'shithouse' score.

How would you characterize yourself for equating having value with getting legal permission to immigrate in the U.S.? Elitist? Racist?

Yes, the third world is appallingly awful. You may even call it a shithole. What brings you to the conclusion that shitholes are void of good people, is beyond me. Immigration to the U.S. is not the measure of human value, I assure you. You are being extremely offensive, and I want you to know that.

--an immigrant

Doesn't matter how good the people are. They don't get to come here and suck off the tax dollars of good people here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The language was undignified and unpresidential but the real problem is that by calling those countries shitholes in that manner he implied that the people who live in those countries have no value. Which is racist, or maybe just super douchey and elitist. Regardless, not very presidential regardless of any country's objective 'shithouse' score.

How would you characterize yourself for equating having value with getting legal permission to immigrate in the U.S.? Elitist? Racist?

Yes, the third world is appallingly awful. You may even call it a shithole. What brings you to the conclusion that shitholes are void of good people, is beyond me. Immigration to the U.S. is not the measure of human value, I assure you. You are being extremely offensive, and I want you to know that.

--an immigrant

Doesn't matter how good the people are. They don't get to come here and suck off the tax dollars of good people here.

That was not my point at all.

[Anonymous]

You made no point, that’s your problem

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The language was undignified and unpresidential but the real problem is that by calling those countries shitholes in that manner he implied that the people who live in those countries have no value. Which is racist, or maybe just super douchey and elitist. Regardless, not very presidential regardless of any country's objective 'shithouse' score.

How would you characterize yourself for equating having value with getting legal permission to immigrate in the U.S.? Elitist? Racist?

Yes, the third world is appallingly awful. You may even call it a shithole. What brings you to the conclusion that shitholes are void of good people, is beyond me. Immigration to the U.S. is not the measure of human value, I assure you. You are being extremely offensive, and I want you to know that.

--an immigrant

PP is not equating having value with getting legal permission to immigrate. He is stating that DJT's reference to shitholes (or shithouses, apparently) was about saying that people who come from such countries are not people we want here - IE that they have lesser value (if any) than people from Norway. Not because of their merit qualifications (many African immigrants have advanced degrees, and clearly at least some Norwegians do not) but because of their race. Clearly the President was NOT saying "Haiti and Africa have low incomes and associated problems, a situation with which I sympathize"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free."

There are no caveats for "shit hole" countries. If you're going to honor the ideals of this country, then it doesn't matter if our President is right or not. And that in and of itself is significantly up for debate. He has debased and disrespected our country in every way possible. Enough.

Those are not the ideals of this country. It's a poem written to raise money for the pedestal of the statute of liberty. It was written and forgotten, only to be brought back after a campaign by the author's friends in 1903. The poem itself was written in 1883. Guess what passed in 1882? The Chinese exclusion act.

I admit the poem has a lot of charm to it, but little attachment to reality.

Of course they're ideals of this country. GMAFB. It's at the gateway to our country. It's taught in school. It's in our history books. And until Trump, it is something that has been viewed as an ideal of this country for decades. Nice try though. As for your reference to the Chinese Exclusion act, I never said all of our leaders were perfect or acted honorably. But, even when that was the case, most Americans could agree in the principles of what this country is supposed to stand for.

The Statute of Liberty is not the gateway of our country. Yes this particular poem is taught in schools, and is recorded in our history books, but that does not mean it represents the ideals of our country. This poem has never been, is not, and probably/should never be the ideal of this country. The fact of the matter, which is well documented in our history books and taught in our schools which you referenced, is that the US has nearly always maintained control on immigration and used individual merit as justification for letting people in - including those who were processed through Ellis Island.

Look I know this feels good, and I also get this same plea to emotion from those on the right who say that this country's government is formed on Judeo-Christian ideals, when I would argue that it isn't. Feeling good doesn't make it true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Tanzania:



Any random town in America:

Wow, Tanzania is pretty. I need to visit it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The language was undignified and unpresidential but the real problem is that by calling those countries shitholes in that manner he implied that the people who live in those countries have no value. Which is racist, or maybe just super douchey and elitist. Regardless, not very presidential regardless of any country's objective 'shithouse' score.

How would you characterize yourself for equating having value with getting legal permission to immigrate in the U.S.? Elitist? Racist?

Yes, the third world is appallingly awful. You may even call it a shithole. What brings you to the conclusion that shitholes are void of good people, is beyond me. Immigration to the U.S. is not the measure of human value, I assure you. You are being extremely offensive, and I want you to know that.

--an immigrant

PP is not equating having value with getting legal permission to immigrate. He is stating that DJT's reference to shitholes (or shithouses, apparently) was about saying that people who come from such countries are not people we want here - IE that they have lesser value (if any) than people from Norway. Not because of their merit qualifications (many African immigrants have advanced degrees, and clearly at least some Norwegians do not) but because of their race. Clearly the President was NOT saying "Haiti and Africa have low incomes and associated problems, a situation with which I sympathize"

Well, by that rationale, a program like the Diversity Visa Program is about saying that people who come from such countries are people we want here - IE that they have more value (if any) than people from countries that are not included in the program. Not because of their merit qualifications, but because of their race.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free."

There are no caveats for "shit hole" countries. If you're going to honor the ideals of this country, then it doesn't matter if our President is right or not. And that in and of itself is significantly up for debate. He has debased and disrespected our country in every way possible. Enough.

Those are not the ideals of this country. It's a poem written to raise money for the pedestal of the statute of liberty. It was written and forgotten, only to be brought back after a campaign by the author's friends in 1903. The poem itself was written in 1883. Guess what passed in 1882? The Chinese exclusion act.

I admit the poem has a lot of charm to it, but little attachment to reality.

Of course they're ideals of this country. GMAFB. It's at the gateway to our country. It's taught in school. It's in our history books. And until Trump, it is something that has been viewed as an ideal of this country for decades. Nice try though. As for your reference to the Chinese Exclusion act, I never said all of our leaders were perfect or acted honorably. But, even when that was the case, most Americans could agree in the principles of what this country is supposed to stand for.

The Statute of Liberty is not the gateway of our country. Yes this particular poem is taught in schools, and is recorded in our history books, but that does not mean it represents the ideals of our country. This poem has never been, is not, and probably/should never be the ideal of this country. The fact of the matter, which is well documented in our history books and taught in our schools which you referenced, is that the US has nearly always maintained control on immigration and used individual merit as justification for letting people in - including those who were processed through Ellis Island.

Look I know this feels good, and I also get this same plea to emotion from those on the right who say that this country's government is formed on Judeo-Christian ideals, when I would argue that it isn't. Feeling good doesn't make it true.

Not quite. There were no federal controls on immigration prior to 1882, I think. The predecessor to Ellis Island was Castle Garden, a New York State facility. Because there was no federal immigration control. Until the WW1 era restrictions the only geographic restriction was against Asians (itself the result of racist hysteria) There was no particular individual controls favoring the educated. There were restrictions on those with particular illnesses. Most immigrants were uneducated, many illiterate.

As for the Emma Lazarus poem, I welcome the Tea Party politicians explicitly saying they do not believe in it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Ancient times have, sort of, passed. That's when Africans most likely peaked. At this point the turn into a shithole even the good things that have been created for them, such as South Africa.

As PP said, the good times passed when miserable European parasites plundered these countries to enrich their own. Africans didn’t peak- their civilizations were systematically erased. You should really go back to your cave and learn to troll better...or just start reading in general. You can start with “The Little Engine That Could.” It’s good for beginners.

I guess they should have fought hardER. History is written by victors. Sorry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The language was undignified and unpresidential but the real problem is that by calling those countries shitholes in that manner he implied that the people who live in those countries have no value. Which is racist, or maybe just super douchey and elitist. Regardless, not very presidential regardless of any country's objective 'shithouse' score.

How would you characterize yourself for equating having value with getting legal permission to immigrate in the U.S.? Elitist? Racist?

Yes, the third world is appallingly awful. You may even call it a shithole. What brings you to the conclusion that shitholes are void of good people, is beyond me. Immigration to the U.S. is not the measure of human value, I assure you. You are being extremely offensive, and I want you to know that.

--an immigrant

PP is not equating having value with getting legal permission to immigrate. He is stating that DJT's reference to shitholes (or shithouses, apparently) was about saying that people who come from such countries are not people we want here - IE that they have lesser value (if any) than people from Norway. Not because of their merit qualifications (many African immigrants have advanced degrees, and clearly at least some Norwegians do not) but because of their race. Clearly the President was NOT saying "Haiti and Africa have low incomes and associated problems, a situation with which I sympathize"

Well, by that rationale, a program like the Diversity Visa Program is about saying that people who come from such countries are people we want here - IE that they have more value (if any) than people from countries that are not included in the program. Not because of their merit qualifications, but because of their race.

Clearly you think President Trump only believes that we need to balance countries as in the DVP, and that his reference to shithole countries, in the same breath with wanting fewer people from those countries has nothing to do with disdain for those people, but is simply of a piece with the program itself. Given his convoluted speech, it is difficult to prove you wrong. But given his history of statements, and the fact that the WH and its defenders in the Senate continue to engage in denial and subterfuge about what he said, I think its clear most people do not think your reading of his words is accurate. Have a nice day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Ancient times have, sort of, passed. That's when Africans most likely peaked. At this point the turn into a shithole even the good things that have been created for them, such as South Africa.

As PP said, the good times passed when miserable European parasites plundered these countries to enrich their own. Africans didn’t peak- their civilizations were systematically erased. You should really go back to your cave and learn to troll better...or just start reading in general. You can start with “The Little Engine That Could.” It’s good for beginners.

I guess they should have fought hardER. History is written by victors. Sorry.

So you are cool with tearing down all those statues?