Two paths to magnet program at Richard Montgomery High School

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Nobody gets the IB diploma unless they complete the program. Why does there need to be an additional barrier keeping the local kids out if their performance first two years of HS leads a counselor to recommend them? Isn't the difficulty of the program what makes the diploma valuable? in that case it doesn't matter how many students attempt it and there's no reason to disparage any student who manages to do it just because they didn't get invited in 8th grade. The value of the program should be the four years of education, not getting a card punched.

IB is a difficult program, I agree. However IB by itself is not designed for HG students. I am not talking about the Diploma program at all. RM can create a magnet Diploma program and a non-magnet Diploma program.

What RM (and MCPS) is doing is soliciting exceptional academically qualified students to join RM and then switching them into open all-school IB program (like BCC, Rockville IB program). I am not suggesting (or disparaging) any student who can manage the Diploma program. I am challenging the MCPS and RM admin to come clean with what they are advertising vs. what they are actually doing.

I would not send my academically gifted kid to BCC or Rockville to do just an IB program taking an hour or more long bus ride from Olney if my kid can do an IB program in the home school, join EC with the neighborhood friends he grew up with. So why should I send him to RM if he would just go there for the IB program?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yet, no school wants to lose their magnet programs do they? Their spectacular performance will drop without the magnet programs and they will be the bottom of the heap schools where the teachers and Principal actually need to work hard to bring their numbers up. Maybe magnet programs should be housed in seperate magnet schools - like Poolsville HS is? Maybe the reporting of a school statistics should be based on breaking the magnet away from the comprehensive program? Please let me know what ranking RM will have without the RMIB program?

What is the rating for JWMS? 8 overall, 9 test scores. Not exactly the bottom tier in mcps.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

IB is a difficult program, I agree. However IB by itself is not designed for HG students. I am not talking about the Diploma program at all. RM can create a magnet Diploma program and a non-magnet Diploma program.

What RM (and MCPS) is doing is soliciting exceptional academically qualified students to join RM and then switching them into open all-school IB program (like BCC, Rockville IB program). I am not suggesting (or disparaging) any student who can manage the Diploma program. I am challenging the MCPS and RM admin to come clean with what they are advertising vs. what they are actually doing.

I would not send my academically gifted kid to BCC or Rockville to do just an IB program taking an hour or more long bus ride from Olney if my kid can do an IB program in the home school, join EC with the neighborhood friends he grew up with. So why should I send him to RM if he would just go there for the IB program?

Then don't. If you don't like the RMIB program, because you want everybody in your kid's IB classes to be kids who got admitted through the magnet application program, then don't send your kid there.

And no, MCPS isn't hiding anything. My kid applied to RMIB last year (and didn't get in). Nowhere did anybody say that, if my kid got in, everybody in my kid's IB classes would be kids who got admitted through the magnet application program. Nor did I have this expectation. Nor am I upset that kids at RM get to take IB classes, while my kid doesn't get to (because our zoned school is not an IB school).

[Anonymous]

I'll ask again... from what I know, RMIB has always set aside 25 seats for cluster students. What's changed in the past two years about this?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

For the PP who is trying to paint me as elitist that I am complaining that RM has "put in "not as qualified" RM kids in with your super duper smart kids", I do not consider my kids as super duper smart. I have already mentioned that there are many qualified kids in RM who would succeed in the magnet program, and they should be in the cohort in 9th grade. In fact JWMS students have a quota of 25/30 seats in 9th grade through the application process. I also know there are many similar kids who are rejected ever year with statement that "RM magnet program does not have enough seats for all qualified" students. I have helped around 10 parents over the years to write their appeal letters and only 4 have succeeded. All 10 were as smart (if not smarter) than my kids. I have a problem when RM kids who do not have to prove their "qualification" anymore can get into the magnet program in 11th grade, when many non-RM kids like these are refused a seat even though the selection committee finds them qualified to succeed in the program.

You're complaining that it's not fair that kids who are at RM get to take RMIB classes even though they're not in RMIB, when kids who aren't at RM don't. Is that it?

Would it be more fair to tell kids who are at RM that they don't get to take RMIB classes? I don't think so.

Nope, let me explain this again. IB =/= magnet. My kids joined an MAGNET IB program, which RM is turning into JUST IB program behind the curtain. There are many kids (who are as academically advanced or more) than my kids and many at RM who are rejected from the "magnet" program because there are not enough seat. There are many kids who are rejected from the "magnet" program because they did not qualify. For all these reasons, RM can do one of the two things:

Withdraw itself from magnet school status since it cannot provide magnet program authentically to the invited student without conflicting with its IB philosophy.

or

Create a magnet IB program for qualified kids (from RM and non-RM clusters) who start at 9th grade and a non-magnet IB program for all RM kids who start in 11th grade.

In the meantime though, MCPS and RM must make the two magnet paths clear to non-RM parents/students on their websites, in the magnet open house presentations and in all other communication. The small print CYA version is a "bait and switch"(from magnet to regular IBDP) that must stop.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

For the PP who is trying to paint me as elitist that I am complaining that RM has "put in "not as qualified" RM kids in with your super duper smart kids", I do not consider my kids as super duper smart. I have already mentioned that there are many qualified kids in RM who would succeed in the magnet program, and they should be in the cohort in 9th grade. In fact JWMS students have a quota of 25/30 seats in 9th grade through the application process. I also know there are many similar kids who are rejected ever year with statement that "RM magnet program does not have enough seats for all qualified" students. I have helped around 10 parents over the years to write their appeal letters and only 4 have succeeded. All 10 were as smart (if not smarter) than my kids. I have a problem when RM kids who do not have to prove their "qualification" anymore can get into the magnet program in 11th grade, when many non-RM kids like these are refused a seat even though the selection committee finds them qualified to succeed in the program.

You're complaining that it's not fair that kids who are at RM get to take RMIB classes even though they're not in RMIB, when kids who aren't at RM don't. Is that it?

Would it be more fair to tell kids who are at RM that they don't get to take RMIB classes? I don't think so.

Nope, let me explain this again. IB =/= magnet. My kids joined an MAGNET IB program, which RM is turning into JUST IB program behind the curtain. There are many kids (who are as academically advanced or more) than my kids and many at RM who are rejected from the "magnet" program because there are not enough seat. There are many kids who are rejected from the "magnet" program because they did not qualify. For all these reasons, RM can do one of the two things:

Withdraw itself from magnet school status since it cannot provide magnet program authentically to the invited student without conflicting with its IB philosophy.

or

Create a magnet IB program for qualified kids (from RM and non-RM clusters) who start at 9th grade and a non-magnet IB program for all RM kids who start in 11th grade.

In the meantime though, MCPS and RM must make the two magnet paths clear to non-RM parents/students on their websites, in the magnet open house presentations and in all other communication. The small print CYA version is a "bait and switch"(from magnet to regular IBDP) that must stop.

Again, they have always set aside seats for RM students. What's changed that made you think it's a bait/switch?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've been saying all along that this is the beginning of the end. Have you noticed NMSF drop this year? No, 33 is not bad but even just a few years ago, IB produced equal or more than Blair SMAC. This year IB is outnumbered by a dozen or so. That's a one sign but a significant one.

It's amazing how the dismissal of Jennifer Hoover in the spring of 2017 affected the scores on tests taken in the fall of 2016 by students selected for the program in the spring of 2014.

No, it's not as cut and dry like that. Even when my kid was there - class of 2015 - the message from principal was loud and clear. He does not support IB and tried to mix IB with non-IB kids. It's a slow decline but if you have younger kids, something you should keep an eye on. My money is on continuing decline of IB stats - SAT scores, NMSF, IB test scores and such.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that test scores in MCPS as a whole has been declining, not just those in the RMIB program.

Blair SMAC is a good benchmark for IB. Go check historical NMSF data, IB and SMAC programs are always very close. Some years IB had more, some SMAC had more. I think those days are gone. I am looking forward to IB's SAT avg score to come out. I'll be very surprised if they can maintain 2250 score. I highly doubt it.

Especially since SAT's max score is now 1600.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'll ask again... from what I know, RMIB has always set aside 25 seats for cluster students. What's changed in the past two years about this?

Why are you not reading the whole thread and asking this question?

The 25/30 seats from JWMS is not the issue. RM is admitting another 40/50 kids in 11th grade to the magnet program. They used to admitted through another school wide application process. This second path was only advertised to the RM-cluster parents. In the last 3/4 years, the application process has been watered down to admit basically any student who wish to be in the magnet IB program.

In addition, 2 years back the 25/30 JWMS entry number was changed to about 50 or so (starting class size at 154), to give RM cluster kids enough preparation to succeed in IB DP. What parents have come to learn is that the IBDP class size in 11th grade is 192. So, in that class an additional 38/40 RM students (without qualification vetting application process) were added in 11th grade. Does this look like an application based academically advanced program anymore?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

For the PP who is trying to paint me as elitist that I am complaining that RM has "put in "not as qualified" RM kids in with your super duper smart kids", I do not consider my kids as super duper smart. I have already mentioned that there are many qualified kids in RM who would succeed in the magnet program, and they should be in the cohort in 9th grade. In fact JWMS students have a quota of 25/30 seats in 9th grade through the application process. I also know there are many similar kids who are rejected ever year with statement that "RM magnet program does not have enough seats for all qualified" students. I have helped around 10 parents over the years to write their appeal letters and only 4 have succeeded. All 10 were as smart (if not smarter) than my kids. I have a problem when RM kids who do not have to prove their "qualification" anymore can get into the magnet program in 11th grade, when many non-RM kids like these are refused a seat even though the selection committee finds them qualified to succeed in the program.

You're complaining that it's not fair that kids who are at RM get to take RMIB classes even though they're not in RMIB, when kids who aren't at RM don't. Is that it?

Would it be more fair to tell kids who are at RM that they don't get to take RMIB classes? I don't think so.

OP, you do realize that the end result of an IB program, whether it's completed at RM or BCC, Einstein, Rockville, etc, is the same diploma?

Nope, let me explain this again. IB =/= magnet. My kids joined an MAGNET IB program, which RM is turning into JUST IB program behind the curtain. There are many kids (who are as academically advanced or more) than my kids and many at RM who are rejected from the "magnet" program because there are not enough seat. There are many kids who are rejected from the "magnet" program because they did not qualify. For all these reasons, RM can do one of the two things:

Withdraw itself from magnet school status since it cannot provide magnet program authentically to the invited student without conflicting with its IB philosophy.

or

Create a magnet IB program for qualified kids (from RM and non-RM clusters) who start at 9th grade and a non-magnet IB program for all RM kids who start in 11th grade.

In the meantime though, MCPS and RM must make the two magnet paths clear to non-RM parents/students on their websites, in the magnet open house presentations and in all other communication. The small print CYA version is a "bait and switch"(from magnet to regular IBDP) that must stop.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

For the PP who is trying to paint me as elitist that I am complaining that RM has "put in "not as qualified" RM kids in with your super duper smart kids", I do not consider my kids as super duper smart. I have already mentioned that there are many qualified kids in RM who would succeed in the magnet program, and they should be in the cohort in 9th grade. In fact JWMS students have a quota of 25/30 seats in 9th grade through the application process. I also know there are many similar kids who are rejected ever year with statement that "RM magnet program does not have enough seats for all qualified" students. I have helped around 10 parents over the years to write their appeal letters and only 4 have succeeded. All 10 were as smart (if not smarter) than my kids. I have a problem when RM kids who do not have to prove their "qualification" anymore can get into the magnet program in 11th grade, when many non-RM kids like these are refused a seat even though the selection committee finds them qualified to succeed in the program.

You're complaining that it's not fair that kids who are at RM get to take RMIB classes even though they're not in RMIB, when kids who aren't at RM don't. Is that it?

Would it be more fair to tell kids who are at RM that they don't get to take RMIB classes? I don't think so.

Nope, let me explain this again. IB =/= magnet. My kids joined an MAGNET IB program, which RM is turning into JUST IB program behind the curtain. There are many kids (who are as academically advanced or more) than my kids and many at RM who are rejected from the "magnet" program because there are not enough seat. There are many kids who are rejected from the "magnet" program because they did not qualify. For all these reasons, RM can do one of the two things:

Withdraw itself from magnet school status since it cannot provide magnet program authentically to the invited student without conflicting with its IB philosophy.

or

Create a magnet IB program for qualified kids (from RM and non-RM clusters) who start at 9th grade and a non-magnet IB program for all RM kids who start in 11th grade.

In the meantime though, MCPS and RM must make the two magnet paths clear to non-RM parents/students on their websites, in the magnet open house presentations and in all other communication. The small print CYA version is a "bait and switch"(from magnet to regular IBDP) that must stop.

Again, they have always set aside seats for RM students. What's changed that made you think it's a bait/switch?

Are you playing obtuse here? "Magnet" IB was promised, "Regular" IB was delivered.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Are you playing obtuse here? "Magnet" IB was promised, "Regular" IB was delivered.

Only if you define "magnet" as "classes exclusively for students admitted for 9th grade through the application process". Which you evidently do. But I don't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'll ask again... from what I know, RMIB has always set aside 25 seats for cluster students. What's changed in the past two years about this?

Why are you not reading the whole thread and asking this question?

The 25/30 seats from JWMS is not the issue. RM is admitting another 40/50 kids in 11th grade to the magnet program. They used to admitted through another school wide application process. This second path was only advertised to the RM-cluster parents. In the last 3/4 years, the application process has been watered down to admit basically any student who wish to be in the magnet IB program.

In addition, 2 years back the 25/30 JWMS entry number was changed to about 50 or so (starting class size at 154), to give RM cluster kids enough preparation to succeed in IB DP. What parents have come to learn is that the IBDP class size in 11th grade is 192. So, in that class an additional 38/40 RM students (without qualification vetting application process) were added in 11th grade. Does this look like an application based academically advanced program anymore?

So, they don't look at the test scores and grades for the additional 40 students entering in 11th grade? Do they not take an exam to get in?

The change in application to magnets seems to be county wide, at all levels, ES and MS. They have changed the HGC entrance exam, too. Made it 30min instead of 2 hours. MCPS is looking at other factors rather than heavily relying on the HGC exam. MCPS has changed the name of the program to "enriched" rather than "gifted". So it seems they are trying to increase participation and expanding such programs, like HGC and IB. There's a different thread about it. Some say it's because MCPS is trying to close the achievement gap; others think it's because there are different ways to identify "highly qualified" students.

Will this change the rigor of the program? I don't know. Maybe. But, either way, RM is not obligated to share that information with parents outside the cluster since it doesn't really impact them. OP is complaining that her DC will be in a class with "nonqualified" students. My point is, how does she know that those students are not qualified in terms of being able to keep up and add value to the program just because they went through a different process?

[Anonymous]

Because it took you until the middle of the 5th page to write these two paragraphs that finally do minimally support your case.

Link for the numbers?

"Why are you not reading the whole thread and asking this question?

The 25/30 seats from JWMS is not the issue. RM is admitting another 40/50 kids in 11th grade to the magnet program. They used to admitted through another school wide application process. This second path was only advertised to the RM-cluster parents. In the last 3/4 years, the application process has been watered down to admit basically any student who wish to be in the magnet IB program.

In addition, 2 years back the 25/30 JWMS entry number was changed to about 50 or so (starting class size at 154), to give RM cluster kids enough preparation to succeed in IB DP. What parents have come to learn is that the IBDP class size in 11th grade is 192. So, in that class an additional 38/40 RM students (without qualification vetting application process) were added in 11th grade. Does this look like an application based academically advanced program anymore?"

[Anonymous]

OP, you do realize that your kid will earn a IB diploma, same as kids who attend the non selective IB schools, right?

Nothing is actually being taken away from your child by offering home school kids an opportunity to participate in a program housed at their school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

For the PP who is trying to paint me as elitist that I am complaining that RM has "put in "not as qualified" RM kids in with your super duper smart kids", I do not consider my kids as super duper smart. I have already mentioned that there are many qualified kids in RM who would succeed in the magnet program, and they should be in the cohort in 9th grade. In fact JWMS students have a quota of 25/30 seats in 9th grade through the application process. I also know there are many similar kids who are rejected ever year with statement that "RM magnet program does not have enough seats for all qualified" students. I have helped around 10 parents over the years to write their appeal letters and only 4 have succeeded. All 10 were as smart (if not smarter) than my kids. I have a problem when RM kids who do not have to prove their "qualification" anymore can get into the magnet program in 11th grade, when many non-RM kids like these are refused a seat even though the selection committee finds them qualified to succeed in the program.

You're complaining that it's not fair that kids who are at RM get to take RMIB classes even though they're not in RMIB, when kids who aren't at RM don't. Is that it?

Would it be more fair to tell kids who are at RM that they don't get to take RMIB classes? I don't think so.

OP, you do realize that the end result of an IB program, whether it's completed at RM or BCC, Einstein, Rockville, etc, is the same diploma?

Nope, let me explain this again. IB =/= magnet. My kids joined an MAGNET IB program, which RM is turning into JUST IB program behind the curtain. There are many kids (who are as academically advanced or more) than my kids and many at RM who are rejected from the "magnet" program because there are not enough seat. There are many kids who are rejected from the "magnet" program because they did not qualify. For all these reasons, RM can do one of the two things:

Withdraw itself from magnet school status since it cannot provide magnet program authentically to the invited student without conflicting with its IB philosophy.

or

Create a magnet IB program for qualified kids (from RM and non-RM clusters) who start at 9th grade and a non-magnet IB program for all RM kids who start in 11th grade.

In the meantime though, MCPS and RM must make the two magnet paths clear to non-RM parents/students on their websites, in the magnet open house presentations and in all other communication. The small print CYA version is a "bait and switch"(from magnet to regular IBDP) that must stop.

I know that. I do not care about the certificate, I care about the education the kids are promised is delivered authentically. You probably know this that the magnet math, science, history or English classes they offer in magnet MS follow MCPS curriculum. What makes the classes magnet is instruction, depth, pace and cohort.

IB is a philosophy. The IB classes can be delivered as a "regular" class or a "magnet" class. Current RM administration is placing their bet that the magnet parents do not understand the difference and can be silenced by big words like "IB learner", "international mindset" etc.