Two paths to magnet program at Richard Montgomery High School

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

That may be true. However, the decline in results of magnet students is because of bringing in lower performing students in the mix to make MCPS look good. I am sure if you look at individual scores of high performing magnet students who are not-URM they have remained steady or even improved. That is why the achievement gap among the races continue to grow. MCPS cannot take the place of involved parents. That's an edge that these high performing students have for now.

I notice that you equated "URM students" and "uninvolved parents".

Make that "academically uninvolved parents". I also mean those URM student who are NOT offspring of educated immigrants from Africa or Latin countries.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

That may be true. However, the decline in results of magnet students is because of bringing in lower performing students in the mix to make MCPS look good. I am sure if you look at individual scores of high performing magnet students who are not-URM they have remained steady or even improved. That is why the achievement gap among the races continue to grow. MCPS cannot take the place of involved parents. That's an edge that these high performing students have for now.

I notice that you equated "URM students" and "uninvolved parents".

Make that "academically uninvolved parents". I also mean those URM student who are NOT offspring of educated immigrants from Africa or Latin countries.

Stop digging, PP.

[Anonymous]

Oh, OP. This is not brand new. It's been this way for years. Did you know that RM cluster has not only the MYP but also the PYP at College Gardens, and some parents actually choose this cluster for the whole IB experience from ES to HS? Do you think these kids are dumb and undeserving of the spot at RMIB?

Did you know that the MS magnets in Silver Spring operate the same way - set aside seats for in cluster students? Do you think that stops parents from the W schools from wanting their DCs go to those MS magnets?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Magnet programs take up host school resources. Allowing home school kids easier entry into magnet programs (ex, tpms, rmib) seems reasonable compensation.

Actually they don't. They are funded from a different bucket altogether by MCPS.

Magnet programs do the following -
-> Bring the academic scores of the school up
-> Lower the discipline issues in the school
-> Bring parents who have more resources to the school (usually you see the changes when parents start/fund programs, volunteer to chaperone field-trips, donate to school causes, start clubs, seek out outside opportunities for the students) and are more engaged. RM parents started an IB Foundation a few years ago that benefits all students doing the diploma program not just RMIB magnet students
-> Provide opportunities to other high-achieving non-magnet students within the school to be in a class with high performing peers and also to avail of opportunities that are opened up because of the magnet population - teams, clubs, volunteer opportunities, outreach, academic preparation
-> Becomes attractive to teachers who want to teach these students. Once these teachers are in the school they also take on other roles - club sponsors, team leads etc.
-> Make the area attractive to prospective home-buyers and lead to revitalization of that community.

What it does not do -
-> Increase the academic abilities of low and medium performing students. Magnet classrooms do not create the phenomenon where by mixing magnet students with non-magnet students will result in some sort of osmosis of abilities from high performing students to low performing students. Regardless of what MCPS is daydreaming. Not. Gonna. Happen.

I believe the only additional funding host schools receive is for a program coordinator. All other resources are shared. Everything else you listed as perks for housing a magnet program are questionable when comprehensive classes are overcrowded.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Actually they don't. They are funded from a different bucket altogether by MCPS.

Magnet programs do the following -
-> Bring the academic scores of the school up
-> Lower the discipline issues in the school
-> Bring parents who have more resources to the school (usually you see the changes when parents start/fund programs, volunteer to chaperone field-trips, donate to school causes, start clubs, seek out outside opportunities for the students) and are more engaged. RM parents started an IB Foundation a few years ago that benefits all students doing the diploma program not just RMIB magnet students
-> Provide opportunities to other high-achieving non-magnet students within the school to be in a class with high performing peers and also to avail of opportunities that are opened up because of the magnet population - teams, clubs, volunteer opportunities, outreach, academic preparation
-> Becomes attractive to teachers who want to teach these students. Once these teachers are in the school they also take on other roles - club sponsors, team leads etc.
-> Make the area attractive to prospective home-buyers and lead to revitalization of that community.

What it does not do -
-> Increase the academic abilities of low and medium performing students. Magnet classrooms do not create the phenomenon where by mixing magnet students with non-magnet students will result in some sort of osmosis of abilities from high performing students to low performing students. Regardless of what MCPS is daydreaming. Not. Gonna. Happen.

That's what OP is complaining about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Actually they don't. They are funded from a different bucket altogether by MCPS.

Magnet programs do the following -
-> Bring the academic scores of the school up
-> Lower the discipline issues in the school
-> Bring parents who have more resources to the school (usually you see the changes when parents start/fund programs, volunteer to chaperone field-trips, donate to school causes, start clubs, seek out outside opportunities for the students) and are more engaged. RM parents started an IB Foundation a few years ago that benefits all students doing the diploma program not just RMIB magnet students
-> Provide opportunities to other high-achieving non-magnet students within the school to be in a class with high performing peers and also to avail of opportunities that are opened up because of the magnet population - teams, clubs, volunteer opportunities, outreach, academic preparation
-> Becomes attractive to teachers who want to teach these students. Once these teachers are in the school they also take on other roles - club sponsors, team leads etc.
-> Make the area attractive to prospective home-buyers and lead to revitalization of that community.

What it does not do -
-> Increase the academic abilities of low and medium performing students. Magnet classrooms do not create the phenomenon where by mixing magnet students with non-magnet students will result in some sort of osmosis of abilities from high performing students to low performing students. Regardless of what MCPS is daydreaming. Not. Gonna. Happen.

That's what OP is complaining about.

Nope. This is not what OP is complaining about. There are many high achieving students in a school with a magnet program who are not in the program. The grouping however is not done in a way that a few students who are high achieving (not exceptional) are placed in classroom with majority magnet students. The original idea was these few students who are perhaps slightly below their magnet peers will benefit from this co-mingling in the non-magnet classes.

However, MCPS is great in fucking up good ideas. In many magnet MS programs it is easy to see that these groupings are thrown out of the window. Few magnet students are sprinkled in these classes with students of all levels, helping no one. It is an MCPS-wide phenomenon. I am not at all surprised that OP is complaining. In the guise of making things accessible they are diluting the cohort strength because they are not basing it on merit. Yes, RM should absolutely take RM students in RMIB program in the 10th grade, but it should be an application and exam based application. This is not a barrier to entry for students who deserve to be there, regardless of race.

RMIB has several ec activities that anyone with skill can enter - robotics, its academic etc. These opportunities have become available because of the number of magnet kids who provide the necessary numbers to have them in the first place.

Can RM survive without the RMIB program? No. The Principal (who is basically a puppet of MCPS) would not want to lose this program from his school and neither would the teachers. All the great numbers would plummet. The school is not doing great. Its the magnet students who are propping up the school.

[Anonymous]

I am the OP. I posted this and couple of response early on and moved away from computer for a bit and see that the thread has spun a bit out of control. Here are my response to various points brought up by different posters:

I did not say the two pathways is not at all possible to be located, otherwise how would I find it. However unless you are doing significant deep dive search, you cannot find it. To the PP who said she had seen it MCPS, show me where you found it (not by key word search on google, but actual link path in MCPS). It has never been there.It has always been presented to the RM kids during their freshman orientation.

The reason for starting thread are:

MCPS/RM should clearly advertise the two paths to magnet IB at RM on their websites, so that non-RM parents understand what their kids give up and get by joining RM

The requirement to join the IB program in 11th grade has been made significantly easy in recent years (see the difference in the PPT linked in 2011 and what RM says now about test, score etc). MCPS needs to make sure the rigor,pace and cohort of the magnet program are not being compromised to accommodate RM-only kids. I believe there are many qualified kids in RM cluster (like every other clusters in MCPS) who can succeed in the magnet program, however not ALL RM students who are interested are qualified. By "all RM students are eligible to participate in the full Diploma Programme offered at the school." policy what RM is claiming that all RM students are qualified to be in the MCPS magnet program hosted at RM

RM implicitly making the magnet an "all-magnet" school without being transparent about it.

For the PP, who says RM is one of the very few HS where kids go through PYP, MYP and DP, I am aware of that. I understand what IB is. IB is philosophy and not a benchmark of academic acceleration or enrichment. The magnet program on the other hand is a promise to the HG special need students that they would be provided the academic support to flourish to their best potential. PYP and MYP by themselves do not make a kid HG. HG magnet programs were designed to serve the need of this set of population. If the rigor, pace and cohort of the program takes a back-seat to support the IB philosophy at RM, then MCPS/RM administration needs to come clean with all stakeholders. There is nothing wrong in being just a IB school, or a school with special flagship program. However the "magnet" program within the school must fulfill its purpose independent of the comprehensive school level programs.

Another PP talked about kids being admitted based on "skin color". I strongly oppose that statement. The issue I raised has nothing to do with skin color. It has to do with assaulting the integrity of a county level "magnet" program in the excuse of being a IB school.

To the PP, who said magnet schools do not get any additional resource than the coordinator, you are wrong. Magnet schools are provided additional staff hours. Another PP pointed about the conflict of magnet classes being smaller sizes than comprehensive classes if the magnet resources are used exclusively for magnet students. You are right, however why should that be an issue. Special Need students are hosted in some HS, with specific resource for the programs. Does anyone complain when SN class size is smaller than comprehensive class size. HG students are at the other end of the spectrum. They need special accommodations to prosper academically. Resources allocated to them must not be used for comprehensive classes.

For the PP who is trying to paint me as elitist that I am complaining that RM has "put in "not as qualified" RM kids in with your super duper smart kids", I do not consider my kids as super duper smart. I have already mentioned that there are many qualified kids in RM who would succeed in the magnet program, and they should be in the cohort in 9th grade. In fact JWMS students have a quota of 25/30 seats in 9th grade through the application process. I also know there are many similar kids who are rejected ever year with statement that "RM magnet program does not have enough seats for all qualified" students. I have helped around 10 parents over the years to write their appeal letters and only 4 have succeeded. All 10 were as smart (if not smarter) than my kids. I have a problem when RM kids who do not have to prove their "qualification" anymore can get into the magnet program in 11th grade, when many non-RM kids like these are refused a seat even though the selection committee finds them qualified to succeed in the program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Magnet programs take up host school resources. Allowing home school kids easier entry into magnet programs (ex, tpms, rmib) seems reasonable compensation.

Actually they don't. They are funded from a different bucket altogether by MCPS.

Magnet programs do the following -
-> Bring the academic scores of the school up
-> Lower the discipline issues in the school
-> Bring parents who have more resources to the school (usually you see the changes when parents start/fund programs, volunteer to chaperone field-trips, donate to school causes, start clubs, seek out outside opportunities for the students) and are more engaged. RM parents started an IB Foundation a few years ago that benefits all students doing the diploma program not just RMIB magnet students
-> Provide opportunities to other high-achieving non-magnet students within the school to be in a class with high performing peers and also to avail of opportunities that are opened up because of the magnet population - teams, clubs, volunteer opportunities, outreach, academic preparation
-> Becomes attractive to teachers who want to teach these students. Once these teachers are in the school they also take on other roles - club sponsors, team leads etc.
-> Make the area attractive to prospective home-buyers and lead to revitalization of that community.

What it does not do -
-> Increase the academic abilities of low and medium performing students. Magnet classrooms do not create the phenomenon where by mixing magnet students with non-magnet students will result in some sort of osmosis of abilities from high performing students to low performing students. Regardless of what MCPS is daydreaming. Not. Gonna. Happen.

I believe the only additional funding host schools receive is for a program coordinator. All other resources are shared. Everything else you listed as perks for housing a magnet program are questionable when comprehensive classes are overcrowded.

Yet, no school wants to lose their magnet programs do they? Their spectacular performance will drop without the magnet programs and they will be the bottom of the heap schools where the teachers and Principal actually need to work hard to bring their numbers up. Maybe magnet programs should be housed in seperate magnet schools - like Poolsville HS is? Maybe the reporting of a school statistics should be based on breaking the magnet away from the comprehensive program? Please let me know what ranking RM will have without the RMIB program?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Yet, no school wants to lose their magnet programs do they? Their spectacular performance will drop without the magnet programs and they will be the bottom of the heap schools where the teachers and Principal actually need to work hard to bring their numbers up. Maybe magnet programs should be housed in seperate magnet schools - like Poolsville HS is? Maybe the reporting of a school statistics should be based on breaking the magnet away from the comprehensive program? Please let me know what ranking RM will have without the RMIB program?

Poolesville HS is not a separate magnet school.

[Anonymous]

OP, are these concerns being raised at any RM IB magnet parent specific forum of the school?

[Anonymous]

Nobody gets the IB diploma unless they complete the program. Why does there need to be an additional barrier keeping the local kids out if their performance first two years of HS leads a counselor to recommend them? Isn't the difficulty of the program what makes the diploma valuable? in that case it doesn't matter how many students attempt it and there's no reason to disparage any student who manages to do it just because they didn't get invited in 8th grade. The value of the program should be the four years of education, not getting a card punched.

[Anonymous]

OP, here's the link and nav path:

http://montgomeryschoolsmd.org/schools/rmhs/ib/myp/

Link to RMHS:
http://montgomeryschoolsmd.org/schools/rmhs/

Navigate: IB Programs > MYP


"The Diploma Programme

"Tenth graders at Richard Montgomery have an opportunity to continue on into the IB Diploma Programme for their 11th and 12th grade years"

This is specific to RM cluster students, so why would they feel the need to share that information with non cluster parents?

You say you know that there are RM cluster students who deserve to be in the program, but then complain that they don't share HOW these students can be in the program starting from 11th grade to non cluster parents. Why would you need to know this if you know there are indeed students in RM cluster that are deserving to be in the program?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, are these concerns being raised at any RM IB magnet parent specific forum of the school?

Yes it is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

For the PP who is trying to paint me as elitist that I am complaining that RM has "put in "not as qualified" RM kids in with your super duper smart kids", I do not consider my kids as super duper smart. I have already mentioned that there are many qualified kids in RM who would succeed in the magnet program, and they should be in the cohort in 9th grade. In fact JWMS students have a quota of 25/30 seats in 9th grade through the application process. I also know there are many similar kids who are rejected ever year with statement that "RM magnet program does not have enough seats for all qualified" students. I have helped around 10 parents over the years to write their appeal letters and only 4 have succeeded. All 10 were as smart (if not smarter) than my kids. I have a problem when RM kids who do not have to prove their "qualification" anymore can get into the magnet program in 11th grade, when many non-RM kids like these are refused a seat even though the selection committee finds them qualified to succeed in the program.

You're complaining that it's not fair that kids who are at RM get to take RMIB classes even though they're not in RMIB, when kids who aren't at RM don't. Is that it?

Would it be more fair to tell kids who are at RM that they don't get to take RMIB classes? I don't think so.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Magnet programs take up host school resources. Allowing home school kids easier entry into magnet programs (ex, tpms, rmib) seems reasonable compensation.

Actually they don't. They are funded from a different bucket altogether by MCPS.

Magnet programs do the following -
-> Bring the academic scores of the school up
-> Lower the discipline issues in the school
-> Bring parents who have more resources to the school (usually you see the changes when parents start/fund programs, volunteer to chaperone field-trips, donate to school causes, start clubs, seek out outside opportunities for the students) and are more engaged. RM parents started an IB Foundation a few years ago that benefits all students doing the diploma program not just RMIB magnet students
-> Provide opportunities to other high-achieving non-magnet students within the school to be in a class with high performing peers and also to avail of opportunities that are opened up because of the magnet population - teams, clubs, volunteer opportunities, outreach, academic preparation
-> Becomes attractive to teachers who want to teach these students. Once these teachers are in the school they also take on other roles - club sponsors, team leads etc.
-> Make the area attractive to prospective home-buyers and lead to revitalization of that community.

What it does not do -
-> Increase the academic abilities of low and medium performing students. Magnet classrooms do not create the phenomenon where by mixing magnet students with non-magnet students will result in some sort of osmosis of abilities from high performing students to low performing students. Regardless of what MCPS is daydreaming. Not. Gonna. Happen.

I believe the only additional funding host schools receive is for a program coordinator. All other resources are shared. Everything else you listed as perks for housing a magnet program are questionable when comprehensive classes are overcrowded.

Yet, no school wants to lose their magnet programs do they? Their spectacular performance will drop without the magnet programs and they will be the bottom of the heap schools where the teachers and Principal actually need to work hard to bring their numbers up. Maybe magnet programs should be housed in seperate magnet schools - like Poolsville HS is? Maybe the reporting of a school statistics should be based on breaking the magnet away from the comprehensive program? Please let me know what ranking RM will have without the RMIB program?

I don't think principals love having magnet programs. it puts them in a difficult position resource wise. Not everyone is as status obsessed as you are.