What is Middle Class....Really?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We only bring in 350k or so and we're definitely middle class around here.

THIS is such a typical DCUM hairbrained response.

No, PP, you are NOT middle class. You people define middle class as having a house, one or two cars and a vacation every year. Except in your case, it's a $1MM++ house, two $$$ cars and first class tickets to Europe. That's not middle class.

I find this thread hilarious, because so many PPs are dishing on OP for not wanting to be called "lower class" when you would instantly react if someone called you Upper Class. When you clearly are.

Sorry, I generally agree with OP, but no, there's no way someone on a 350k income is taking first class trips to Europe unless they have family money or something. Or just spending everything coming in. It's a comfortable lifestyle, sure, but not luxury.

Even maxing your 401K, $350K is about $16,500 in monthly net income.

An $800,000 mortgage ($1M - 20% down) with taxes and insurance is around $5,000/month. Loans on 2 $70K cars would be $3,000/mo. That leaves them $8,000 a month every month, or $96,000 a year after living and car expenses. Even assuming their household expenses are astronomical, you could easily fly to Europe first class on that income. A quick Expedia search shows a 10 day trip to Paris with 1st class flights and a 5 star hotel clocking in at $5,700 per person: https://www.expedia.com/Hotel-Search?packageType=fh#packageType=fh&c=94a94187-9d41-47df-a55f-57afaaea45bc&ttla=PAR&ftla=WAS&origin=Washington,+DC,+United+States+(WAS-All+Airports)&destination=Paris+(and+vicinity)&startDate=8/7/2017&endDate=8/16/2017&checkInDate=8/7/2017&checkOutDate=8/16/2017&adults=2&children=1_10,1_13&infantsInSeats=0&cabinClass=f®ionId=179898&star=50&sort=recommended&rfrr=PKG.FH.HSR.Refine.Destination

Assuming a family of 4, that entire trip leaves you $73,200 to run your house for the year. If you can't run a household on $6,100 a month after your housing and car expenses have already been paid for, you need to reexamine your life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We only bring in 350k or so and we're definitely middle class around here.

THIS is such a typical DCUM hairbrained response.

No, PP, you are NOT middle class. You people define middle class as having a house, one or two cars and a vacation every year. Except in your case, it's a $1MM++ house, two $$$ cars and first class tickets to Europe. That's not middle class.

I find this thread hilarious, because so many PPs are dishing on OP for not wanting to be called "lower class" when you would instantly react if someone called you Upper Class. When you clearly are.

Sorry, I generally agree with OP, but no, there's no way someone on a 350k income is taking first class trips to Europe unless they have family money or something. Or just spending everything coming in. It's a comfortable lifestyle, sure, but not luxury.

See - the original poster above said they thought it was "middle class" though. No one said it was "luxury" but its not middle class either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We only bring in 350k or so and we're definitely middle class around here.

THIS is such a typical DCUM hairbrained response.

No, PP, you are NOT middle class. You people define middle class as having a house, one or two cars and a vacation every year. Except in your case, it's a $1MM++ house, two $$$ cars and first class tickets to Europe. That's not middle class.

I find this thread hilarious, because so many PPs are dishing on OP for not wanting to be called "lower class" when you would instantly react if someone called you Upper Class. When you clearly are.

Sorry, I generally agree with OP, but no, there's no way someone on a 350k income is taking first class trips to Europe unless they have family money or something. Or just spending everything coming in. It's a comfortable lifestyle, sure, but not luxury.

Even maxing your 401K, $350K is about $16,500 in monthly net income.

An $800,000 mortgage ($1M - 20% down) with taxes and insurance is around $5,000/month. Loans on 2 $70K cars would be $3,000/mo. That leaves them $8,000 a month every month, or $96,000 a year after living and car expenses. Even assuming their household expenses are astronomical, you could easily fly to Europe first class on that income. A quick Expedia search shows a 10 day trip to Paris with 1st class flights and a 5 star hotel clocking in at $5,700 per person: https://www.expedia.com/Hotel-Search?packageType=fh#packageType=fh&c=94a94187-9d41-47df-a55f-57afaaea45bc&ttla=PAR&ftla=WAS&origin=Washington,+DC,+United+States+(WAS-All+Airports)&destination=Paris+(and+vicinity)&startDate=8/7/2017&endDate=8/16/2017&checkInDate=8/7/2017&checkOutDate=8/16/2017&adults=2&children=1_10,1_13&infantsInSeats=0&cabinClass=f®ionId=179898&star=50&sort=recommended&rfrr=PKG.FH.HSR.Refine.Destination

Assuming a family of 4, that entire trip leaves you $73,200 to run your house for the year. If you can't run a household on $6,100 a month after your housing and car expenses have already been paid for, you need to reexamine your life.

I think you need to reexamine your life. You sound mean and angry. What's wrong? Upset you don't make $350k/year?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We only bring in 350k or so and we're definitely middle class around here.

THIS is such a typical DCUM hairbrained response.

No, PP, you are NOT middle class. You people define middle class as having a house, one or two cars and a vacation every year. Except in your case, it's a $1MM++ house, two $$$ cars and first class tickets to Europe. That's not middle class.

I find this thread hilarious, because so many PPs are dishing on OP for not wanting to be called "lower class" when you would instantly react if someone called you Upper Class. When you clearly are.

Sorry, I generally agree with OP, but no, there's no way someone on a 350k income is taking first class trips to Europe unless they have family money or something. Or just spending everything coming in. It's a comfortable lifestyle, sure, but not luxury.

If 350k only gets you a "comfortable" lifestyle, what the heck kind of lifestyle do the rest of us have then?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:



I think you need to reexamine your life. You sound mean and angry. What's wrong? Upset you don't make $350k/year?

Ha, not at all. I'm not actually the OP so I have no skin in the game, I just stepped in because the claim that a family that makes $350,000 a year couldn't afford to fly first class to Europe unless they had an inheritance was so laughable I had to say something

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's the list of why this thread exists:


1) If YOU, random DCUM reader, find it hard to buy a house in DC these days on 100k (check Zillow and see for yourself), then that means OP, who only makes 100k, is poor.

2) OP can't stand the thought of being lumped in with "poor" people.


Hence the endless posting about how she can't *believe* how people here consider 100k poor. This is a repeat poster who constantly harps on this one issue.

100k isn't poor and yes we bought a townhouse here (NP with a HHI of around 105K). I don't think we are poor. Middle class certainly.

Thank you. I'm the OP whom the troll keeps teasing about being poor - and can almost qualify for welfare - since I only earn $100,000. When I've pointed out that a salary like that is above average for a college-level professional (yes, here in DC), she goes off, calling me an elderly moron. (I'm in my 50s.)

I think the problem is that she can't manage on $200,000 (maybe she's even the same repeat poster complaining she can only afford a shitshack), so the only way she can reconcile that is to convince herself that people making $105,000 HHI income such as yourself (or $100k individual, such as myself) are low class and poor. How else could people like us live nicely if she is "struggling" on $200,000?

And yet, she misses the point. Plenty of professionals earn $60,000 or $70,000 - and the average HHI income nationally is $54,000. How do you think average people feel when they hear how $350k isn't really enough to live the way they want, or $200,000 is a hardship? We are alienating middle-class voters with this snobby attitude, and that is the point of the thread.

Finally, for my little nemesis troll, I am not poor and never have been. Upper-middle class from childhood....dragged to Kennedy Center operas and swimming at the country club. I've continued with an upper-middle class income throughout adulthood, and have lived very comfortably. (And this will be the last time I address you directly. You really do need to grow up.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:



I think you need to reexamine your life. You sound mean and angry. What's wrong? Upset you don't make $350k/year?

Ha, not at all. I'm not actually the OP so I have no skin in the game, I just stepped in because the claim that a family that makes $350,000 a year couldn't afford to fly first class to Europe unless they had an inheritance was so laughable I had to say something

How much do you make/ year?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's the list of why this thread exists:


1) If YOU, random DCUM reader, find it hard to buy a house in DC these days on 100k (check Zillow and see for yourself), then that means OP, who only makes 100k, is poor.

2) OP can't stand the thought of being lumped in with "poor" people.


Hence the endless posting about how she can't *believe* how people here consider 100k poor. This is a repeat poster who constantly harps on this one issue.

100k isn't poor and yes we bought a townhouse here (NP with a HHI of around 105K). I don't think we are poor. Middle class certainly.

Thank you. I'm the OP whom the troll keeps teasing about being poor - and can almost qualify for welfare - since I only earn $100,000. When I've pointed out that a salary like that is above average for a college-level professional (yes, here in DC), she goes off, calling me an elderly moron. (I'm in my 50s.)

I think the problem is that she can't manage on $200,000 (maybe she's even the same repeat poster complaining she can only afford a shitshack), so the only way she can reconcile that is to convince herself that people making $105,000 HHI income such as yourself (or $100k individual, such as myself) are low class and poor. How else could people like us live nicely if she is "struggling" on $200,000?

And yet, she misses the point. Plenty of professionals earn $60,000 or $70,000 - and the average HHI income nationally is $54,000. How do you think average people feel when they hear how $350k isn't really enough to live the way they want, or $200,000 is a hardship? We are alienating middle-class voters with this snobby attitude, and that is the point of the thread.

Finally, for my little nemesis troll, I am not poor and never have been. Upper-middle class from childhood....dragged to Kennedy Center operas and swimming at the country club. I've continued with an upper-middle class income throughout adulthood, and have lived very comfortably. (And this will be the last time I address you directly. You really do need to grow up.)

Which means no need for you to save aggressively for your retirement, as I'm sure you'll be inheriting real estate + a nice chunk of change in the future.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:



I think you need to reexamine your life. You sound mean and angry. What's wrong? Upset you don't make $350k/year?

Ha, not at all. I'm not actually the OP so I have no skin in the game, I just stepped in because the claim that a family that makes $350,000 a year couldn't afford to fly first class to Europe unless they had an inheritance was so laughable I had to say something

Or they spend all their money on first class tickets to Europe. Probably the only place they'll go that year!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:



I think you need to reexamine your life. You sound mean and angry. What's wrong? Upset you don't make $350k/year?

Ha, not at all. I'm not actually the OP so I have no skin in the game, I just stepped in because the claim that a family that makes $350,000 a year couldn't afford to fly first class to Europe unless they had an inheritance was so laughable I had to say something

How much do you make/ year?

Just shy of $140K HHI. I'm the guy with the modest house and car back on page 4.

I won't lie, if someone offered me $350K to do what I do now (or at least to have the same hours and stress level I have now) I'd take it in a heartbeat, but my lifestyle wouldn't change too much. I'd buy a little bungalow or rambler somewhere near rock creek, drink nicer beer, put more towards my retirement, and give a lot more to charity, but that's about it. I'd probably go to Europe once in a while too. First class of course, since I'd be able to afford it!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:



I think you need to reexamine your life. You sound mean and angry. What's wrong? Upset you don't make $350k/year?

Ha, not at all. I'm not actually the OP so I have no skin in the game, I just stepped in because the claim that a family that makes $350,000 a year couldn't afford to fly first class to Europe unless they had an inheritance was so laughable I had to say something

How much do you make/ year?

Just shy of $140K HHI. I'm the guy with the modest house and car back on page 4.

I won't lie, if someone offered me $350K to do what I do now (or at least to have the same hours and stress level I have now) I'd take it in a heartbeat, but my lifestyle wouldn't change too much. I'd buy a little bungalow or rambler somewhere near rock creek, drink nicer beer, put more towards my retirement, and give a lot more to charity, but that's about it. I'd probably go to Europe once in a while too. First class of course, since I'd be able to afford it!

Are you married and do you have kids?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We only bring in 350k or so and we're definitely middle class around here.

THIS is such a typical DCUM hairbrained response.

No, PP, you are NOT middle class. You people define middle class as having a house, one or two cars and a vacation every year. Except in your case, it's a $1MM++ house, two $$$ cars and first class tickets to Europe. That's not middle class.

I find this thread hilarious, because so many PPs are dishing on OP for not wanting to be called "lower class" when you would instantly react if someone called you Upper Class. When you clearly are.

Sorry, I generally agree with OP, but no, there's no way someone on a 350k income is taking first class trips to Europe unless they have family money or something. Or just spending everything coming in. It's a comfortable lifestyle, sure, but not luxury.

Even maxing your 401K, $350K is about $16,500 in monthly net income.

An $800,000 mortgage ($1M - 20% down) with taxes and insurance is around $5,000/month. Loans on 2 $70K cars would be $3,000/mo. That leaves them $8,000 a month every month, or $96,000 a year after living and car expenses. Even assuming their household expenses are astronomical, you could easily fly to Europe first class on that income. A quick Expedia search shows a 10 day trip to Paris with 1st class flights and a 5 star hotel clocking in at $5,700 per person: https://www.expedia.com/Hotel-Search?packageType=fh#packageType=fh&c=94a94187-9d41-47df-a55f-57afaaea45bc&ttla=PAR&ftla=WAS&origin=Washington,+DC,+United+States+(WAS-All+Airports)&destination=Paris+(and+vicinity)&startDate=8/7/2017&endDate=8/16/2017&checkInDate=8/7/2017&checkOutDate=8/16/2017&adults=2&children=1_10,1_13&infantsInSeats=0&cabinClass=f®ionId=179898&star=50&sort=recommended&rfrr=PKG.FH.HSR.Refine.Destination

Assuming a family of 4, that entire trip leaves you $73,200 to run your house for the year. If you can't run a household on $6,100 a month after your housing and car expenses have already been paid for, you need to reexamine your life.

I think you need to reexamine your life. You sound mean and angry. What's wrong? Upset you don't make $350k/year?

You think the pp is mean and angry for pointing out some basic math for living on an income of 350k? I think most people are baffled that ppl with the 350k HHI income can't get it together to actually live a good life. I mean really, where is all that money going if it isn't a luxury vacations or whatever else?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:



I think you need to reexamine your life. You sound mean and angry. What's wrong? Upset you don't make $350k/year?

Ha, not at all. I'm not actually the OP so I have no skin in the game, I just stepped in because the claim that a family that makes $350,000 a year couldn't afford to fly first class to Europe unless they had an inheritance was so laughable I had to say something

How much do you make/ year?

Just shy of $140K HHI. I'm the guy with the modest house and car back on page 4.

I won't lie, if someone offered me $350K to do what I do now (or at least to have the same hours and stress level I have now) I'd take it in a heartbeat, but my lifestyle wouldn't change too much. I'd buy a little bungalow or rambler somewhere near rock creek, drink nicer beer, put more towards my retirement, and give a lot more to charity, but that's about it. I'd probably go to Europe once in a while too. First class of course, since I'd be able to afford it!

Are you married and do you have kids?

Yes I'm married and no I don't have or plan on having kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We only bring in 350k or so and we're definitely middle class around here.

THIS is such a typical DCUM hairbrained response.

No, PP, you are NOT middle class. You people define middle class as having a house, one or two cars and a vacation every year. Except in your case, it's a $1MM++ house, two $$$ cars and first class tickets to Europe. That's not middle class.

I find this thread hilarious, because so many PPs are dishing on OP for not wanting to be called "lower class" when you would instantly react if someone called you Upper Class. When you clearly are.

Sorry, I generally agree with OP, but no, there's no way someone on a 350k income is taking first class trips to Europe unless they have family money or something. Or just spending everything coming in. It's a comfortable lifestyle, sure, but not luxury.

Even maxing your 401K, $350K is about $16,500 in monthly net income.

An $800,000 mortgage ($1M - 20% down) with taxes and insurance is around $5,000/month. Loans on 2 $70K cars would be $3,000/mo. That leaves them $8,000 a month every month, or $96,000 a year after living and car expenses. Even assuming their household expenses are astronomical, you could easily fly to Europe first class on that income. A quick Expedia search shows a 10 day trip to Paris with 1st class flights and a 5 star hotel clocking in at $5,700 per person: https://www.expedia.com/Hotel-Search?packageType=fh#packageType=fh&c=94a94187-9d41-47df-a55f-57afaaea45bc&ttla=PAR&ftla=WAS&origin=Washington,+DC,+United+States+(WAS-All+Airports)&destination=Paris+(and+vicinity)&startDate=8/7/2017&endDate=8/16/2017&checkInDate=8/7/2017&checkOutDate=8/16/2017&adults=2&children=1_10,1_13&infantsInSeats=0&cabinClass=f®ionId=179898&star=50&sort=recommended&rfrr=PKG.FH.HSR.Refine.Destination

Assuming a family of 4, that entire trip leaves you $73,200 to run your house for the year. If you can't run a household on $6,100 a month after your housing and car expenses have already been paid for, you need to reexamine your life.

I think you need to reexamine your life. You sound mean and angry. What's wrong? Upset you don't make $350k/year?

You think the pp is mean and angry for pointing out some basic math for living on an income of 350k? I think most people are baffled that ppl with the 350k HHI income can't get it together to actually live a good life. I mean really, where is all that money going if it isn't a luxury vacations or whatever else?

Saving for retirement, investments, a secure financial future. Not throwing it away on first class tickets to Europe.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you're pulling in $200K but live in a McMansion with no equity and a massive ARM, leverage yourself to your eyeballs to take extravagant vacations, and lease 7-series' for each of your kids, and losing your job means you lose all of that the next month the bills are due, you're working class.

lol.. nobody making 200k is doing any of that stuff. 200k = getting by, no private school, shopping at Aldi or shoppers, driving Hondas and living in a 1800sf shitshack with a tiny lot and a carport. To do the stuff you are talking about would be at least 400-500k or more if you are really leasing 7 series for your kids. That's probably actually getting to $1M.

New poster here. See I don't understand this, how could 200K be getting by? What you described is how my family of 4 lived but my parents barely had a HHI of 60K. I also lived in the NYC metro area, so COL is higher than DC. Had I grown up on 200k life would have been SO good and I would still be in the NYC area.

If you're just getting by on 200k in this area then something is wrong with your day-to-day expenses or you have crazy debt of some kind. I can see where the OP is coming from.

Agree. An income of $200,000 leaves you with close to $15,000 a month after taxes. A month! In what world does that translate into "just getting by"?

Really? Our net income is about $19,000 per month, and our gross is $480,000.