What is Middle Class....Really?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, salaries are adjusted to location so location is relevant when discussing class. No one cares if 80k is a high HHI in bum-f Arkansas. 80k qualifies for subsidized housing for a family of 4 in Fairfax County. So obviously the COL of a particular location matters.

Don't tell OP her HHI of 100k is close to qualifying for government assistance. She can't stand the thought that she is that "low."

Really? Tell me more -- NP here and I'd love to get some assistance. We make less than that and I really don't believe we qualify for anything.

Ignore that poster above. She's a bully and a troll who puts down $100k earners as "near poor," which goes to the point of this thread. In no world does a person earning $100,000 qualify for government assistance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For Middle Class, think 'Roseanne' or 'The Middle'.

I think of Roseanne as lower middle class at best

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We only bring in 350k or so and we're definitely middle class around here.

THIS is such a typical DCUM hairbrained response.

No, PP, you are NOT middle class. You people define middle class as having a house, one or two cars and a vacation every year. Except in your case, it's a $1MM++ house, two $$$ cars and first class tickets to Europe. That's not middle class.

I find this thread hilarious, because so many PPs are dishing on OP for not wanting to be called "lower class" when you would instantly react if someone called you Upper Class. When you clearly are.

And the OP being teased about being lower class is earning $100,000 a year. That's the point. People are making so much money around here that they think $200,000 is barely getting by and $100,000 is a low salary. THIS is what is angering the real middle income.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you're pulling in $200K but live in a McMansion with no equity and a massive ARM, leverage yourself to your eyeballs to take extravagant vacations, and lease 7-series' for each of your kids, and losing your job means you lose all of that the next month the bills are due, you're working class.

lol.. nobody making 200k is doing any of that stuff. 200k = getting by, no private school, shopping at Aldi or shoppers, driving Hondas and living in a 1800sf shitshack with a tiny lot and a carport. To do the stuff you are talking about would be at least 400-500k or more if you are really leasing 7 series for your kids. That's probably actually getting to $1M.

Did you actually read what I wrote? My post was saying that high income people living outside their means aren't middle class. The whole point is that they can't actually afford this stuff. Sure they can pay for it, but they can't afford it.

For example:

McMansion, ~$5,500/mo with a crappy rate: https://www.redfin.com/VA/Fairfax/8801-Southlea-Ct-22031/home/9621068

Two 7 series leases ~$2,200/mo: https://www.bmwusa.com/special-offers/lease.2017-740i-xDrive-Sedan.html

Credit card payment on a $15,000 yearly vacation: $1,350/mo

Total: $9,050

Net monthly pay on $200K: $11,500

Now they have about $2,500 a month left over for food, household expenditures, etc. That's gonna go pretty quick because obviously this kind of person wouldn't be caught dead at Aldi, and I'm sure they will insist on going out somewhere fancy at least a few times a month. (on the credit card of course!)

Which means that while they can pay for this sham of a lifestyle in the short term, they are racking up debt and a job loss or major emergency will wipe them out, which is exactly my point of why middle class cannot be defined by income alone, since they are clearly not middle class in the above example even though they could easily be middle class with the exact same income if they lived within their means.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, salaries are adjusted to location so location is relevant when discussing class. No one cares if 80k is a high HHI in bum-f Arkansas. 80k qualifies for subsidized housing for a family of 4 in Fairfax County. So obviously the COL of a particular location matters.

Don't tell OP her HHI of 100k is close to qualifying for government assistance. She can't stand the thought that she is that "low."

Really? Tell me more -- NP here and I'd love to get some assistance. We make less than that and I really don't believe we qualify for anything.

Ignore that poster above. She's a bully and a troll who puts down $100k earners as "near poor," which goes to the point of this thread. In no world does a person earning $100,000 qualify for government assistance.

OP is poor and destitute. She's also really low class and has some huge self esteem issues stemming from how poor she is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, salaries are adjusted to location so location is relevant when discussing class. No one cares if 80k is a high HHI in bum-f Arkansas. 80k qualifies for subsidized housing for a family of 4 in Fairfax County. So obviously the COL of a particular location matters.

Don't tell OP her HHI of 100k is close to qualifying for government assistance. She can't stand the thought that she is that "low."

Really? Tell me more -- NP here and I'd love to get some assistance. We make less than that and I really don't believe we qualify for anything.

Ignore that poster above. She's a bully and a troll who puts down $100k earners as "near poor," which goes to the point of this thread. In no world does a person earning $100,000 qualify for government assistance.

OP is poor and destitute. She's also really low class and has some huge self esteem issues stemming from how poor she is.

Someone earning $100,000 is poor and destitute in your eyes? Or do you just enjoy putting people down?

I think this thread is starting to prove OP's point.

[Anonymous]

You people are completely missing the point!! You keep describing middle class in terms of lifestyle instead of demographics.

Middle class means *middle*, i.e. the middle cross-section of America. In the past, this middle cross section could afford the stability of a house, a car, and food to eat with maybe a driving vacation once or twice a year. As everyone complaining that they are barely scraping by on $200K already knows, a truly "middle of the pack" income is nowhere near sufficient in most of the country to afford these things anymore. That's why voters are angry. That's why they are voting for anyone who promises a change. When you complain about how hard your life is at $200K/yr instead trying to understand how much harder it is at $60K (again, what most households are getting), you lose any credibility at being able to help or care about the issues of a person earning $60K.

I mean, that's fine if you are not interested in politics or even just bridging community divides, but otherwise you're fighting a losing battle if you want to convince people to share your vision for the future.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We only bring in 350k or so and we're definitely middle class around here.

THIS is such a typical DCUM hairbrained response.

No, PP, you are NOT middle class. You people define middle class as having a house, one or two cars and a vacation every year. Except in your case, it's a $1MM++ house, two $$$ cars and first class tickets to Europe. That's not middle class.

I find this thread hilarious, because so many PPs are dishing on OP for not wanting to be called "lower class" when you would instantly react if someone called you Upper Class. When you clearly are.

Thank you!

My HHI is just under $140K. I consider myself pretty solidly middle class. I own a single family home in DC, a new-ish car, and take a couple vacations every year. My savings are solid, I contribute a decent amount to my retirement.

Yet most people on this board would consider me peasant scum when they found out that house is only 1,200 square feet, was built in 1966, and is located (gasp!) east of the river, my car is only from 2012 and is a Hyundai, and my vacations are to less-than-glamorous locations. (Last one was a road trip around Ireland staying in rustic BnBs and eating at roadside pubs. Absolutely fantastic time and cost my wife and I together less than $3,000 for 10 days.)

I certainly don't live large, but I am stable, have savings, and financial breathing room. That's middle class!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you're pulling in $200K but live in a McMansion with no equity and a massive ARM, leverage yourself to your eyeballs to take extravagant vacations, and lease 7-series' for each of your kids, and losing your job means you lose all of that the next month the bills are due, you're working class.

lol.. nobody making 200k is doing any of that stuff. 200k = getting by, no private school, shopping at Aldi or shoppers, driving Hondas and living in a 1800sf shitshack with a tiny lot and a carport. To do the stuff you are talking about would be at least 400-500k or more if you are really leasing 7 series for your kids. That's probably actually getting to $1M.

New poster here. See I don't understand this, how could 200K be getting by? What you described is how my family of 4 lived but my parents barely had a HHI of 60K. I also lived in the NYC metro area, so COL is higher than DC. Had I grown up on 200k life would have been SO good and I would still be in the NYC area.

If you're just getting by on 200k in this area then something is wrong with your day-to-day expenses or you have crazy debt of some kind. I can see where the OP is coming from.

Agree. An income of $200,000 leaves you with close to $15,000 a month after taxes. A month! In what world does that translate into "just getting by"?

+1

I swear, this is the same person complaining about their 1800sf shitshack in every other real estate/money forum.

[Anonymous]

Here's the list of why this thread exists:


1) If YOU, random DCUM reader, find it hard to buy a house in DC these days on 100k (check Zillow and see for yourself), then that means OP, who only makes 100k, is poor.

2) OP can't stand the thought of being lumped in with "poor" people.


Hence the endless posting about how she can't *believe* how people here consider 100k poor. This is a repeat poster who constantly harps on this one issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We only bring in 350k or so and we're definitely middle class around here.

THIS is such a typical DCUM hairbrained response.

No, PP, you are NOT middle class. You people define middle class as having a house, one or two cars and a vacation every year. Except in your case, it's a $1MM++ house, two $$$ cars and first class tickets to Europe. That's not middle class.

I find this thread hilarious, because so many PPs are dishing on OP for not wanting to be called "lower class" when you would instantly react if someone called you Upper Class. When you clearly are.

Sorry, I generally agree with OP, but no, there's no way someone on a 350k income is taking first class trips to Europe unless they have family money or something. Or just spending everything coming in. It's a comfortable lifestyle, sure, but not luxury.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here's the list of why this thread exists:


1) If YOU, random DCUM reader, find it hard to buy a house in DC these days on 100k (check Zillow and see for yourself), then that means OP, who only makes 100k, is poor.

2) OP can't stand the thought of being lumped in with "poor" people.


Hence the endless posting about how she can't *believe* how people here consider 100k poor. This is a repeat poster who constantly harps on this one issue.

Not OP, have not harped on and on about middle class versus poor, etc. But no, 100k is not poor.

[Anonymous]

So no one wants to talk about why it's a problem that a truly middle (as in middle-of-the-pack) income cannot afford a stable lifestyle anymore? Instead we should all continue to complain about how bad it is for UMC folks?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here's the list of why this thread exists:


1) If YOU, random DCUM reader, find it hard to buy a house in DC these days on 100k (check Zillow and see for yourself), then that means OP, who only makes 100k, is poor.

2) OP can't stand the thought of being lumped in with "poor" people.


Hence the endless posting about how she can't *believe* how people here consider 100k poor. This is a repeat poster who constantly harps on this one issue.

The above is the troll. Ignore.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here's the list of why this thread exists:


1) If YOU, random DCUM reader, find it hard to buy a house in DC these days on 100k (check Zillow and see for yourself), then that means OP, who only makes 100k, is poor.

2) OP can't stand the thought of being lumped in with "poor" people.


Hence the endless posting about how she can't *believe* how people here consider 100k poor. This is a repeat poster who constantly harps on this one issue.

100k isn't poor and yes we bought a townhouse here (NP with a HHI of around 105K). I don't think we are poor. Middle class certainly.