2017 "Most Challenging" High Schools List (Wash Post/Jay Mathews) is out

[Anonymous]

Latin had a higher AP percentage in 2013 because they offered fewer APs then. Great AP classes (and exam pass rates) develop over time-- as certain teachers get experience in "teaching to the test" for that particular AP subject matter. Latin hasn't been teaching most AP subjects long enough to have developed that type of AP "machine" even if that was an academic goal of the school-- which it really isn't. For those AP classes which Latin has been teaching for a long time, e.g. AP Latin-- they get all 4's and 5's.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Latin had a higher AP percentage in 2013 because they offered fewer APs then. Great AP classes (and exam pass rates) develop over time-- as certain teachers get experience in "teaching to the test" for that particular AP subject matter. Latin hasn't been teaching most AP subjects long enough to have developed that type of AP "machine" even if that was an academic goal of the school-- which it really isn't. For those AP classes which Latin has been teaching for a long time, e.g. AP Latin-- they get all 4's and 5's.

If actually passing the AP exams isn't a goal, then they shouldn't offer AP classes. Nothing wrong with developing your own curriculum / standards. But if you are offering them, and less than 20% are passing, something is wrong.

They offered 8 classes 2 years ago, and offer 10 now. But I am not sure that accounts for the passing rate dropping from 50% passing 1 or more to 18% passing 1 or more.

[Anonymous]

Why isn't the goal that students pass the AP test if they took the AP class?

[Anonymous]

I completely reject the premise that number of AP classes is a measure for rigor. At a rigorous school, even the non-honors, non AP classes are challenging...there are no easy A classes (and it is less necessary to load up on APs to be challenged.) Matthews methodology completely ignores that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I completely reject the premise that number of AP classes is a measure for rigor. At a rigorous school, even the non-honors, non AP classes are challenging...there are no easy A classes (and it is less necessary to load up on APs to be challenged.) Matthews methodology completely ignores that.

Well you are free to reject any premise. The reality is that AP tests aren't that hard. When I was in high school we took AP exams sophomore year as preparation for the significantly more challenging IB exams. I'm not surprised that Latin has such a poor performance. The only thing I keep hearing about Latin is that it is better than the alternative. That's a decent explanation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I completely reject the premise that number of AP classes is a measure for rigor. At a rigorous school, even the non-honors, non AP classes are challenging...there are no easy A classes (and it is less necessary to load up on APs to be challenged.) Matthews methodology completely ignores that.

So what's up with the SAT and ACT scores?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Latin had a higher AP percentage in 2013 because they offered fewer APs then. Great AP classes (and exam pass rates) develop over time-- as certain teachers get experience in "teaching to the test" for that particular AP subject matter. Latin hasn't been teaching most AP subjects long enough to have developed that type of AP "machine" even if that was an academic goal of the school-- which it really isn't. For those AP classes which Latin has been teaching for a long time, e.g. AP Latin-- they get all 4's and 5's.

Give me a break. They don't all get 4s and 5s.

Hundreds of thousands of homeschooled kids take AP tests every year in this country, with a great many earning high scores. Their families buy readily available prep materials, check them out for free at public libraries, or find them on-line (e.g. on Khan Academy). If the academic goal of the school is teaching kids to a strong classics-based humanities curriculum, ensuring that most of the kids earn decent scores on AP exams just isn't a high bar to clear in view of the school's demographics and the 5th grade entry system. At Wilson, Walls, BASIS and countless suburban schools in this Metro area, a good third of the kids breeze through half a dozen or more AP exams with high scores, let alone 1 with a passing score.

This result tells me that Latin needs to rethink its model, adding far more serious differentiation younger. However you slide it 18.8% on Jay Matthew's site is a disgrace for such a program. Period.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:but people here can keep convincing themselves they are progressive and "would NEVER" be racist. Eye roll.

So will you please commit here that you won't be one of the people screaming "racist gentrification!" when white families start applying to Banneker in mass, even when Banneker becomes a majority white school?

It won't. Because racism.

But like I said, most everyone here can keep trying to convince themselves.

OK, I'll mark that down as a commitment from you not to complain though if it does. I'm bookmarking this thread, because I suspect it might happen sometime in the next 5 years.

Can you explain your "racism" claim? No doubt there are many people who are consciously or subconsciously bigoted. But adding white students to Banneker doesn't take changing everyone in DC. Even if there are only a handful of white families who aren't bigoted, then that's some starting basis to apply to Banneker, right? Are you seriously contending that every white person in all of DC is so bigoted that they will refuse to apply to Banneker because it's a majority black school? Are you saying every single white person is racist? If that's your view, I'd like to hear you say it directly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Latin had a higher AP percentage in 2013 because they offered fewer APs then. Great AP classes (and exam pass rates) develop over time-- as certain teachers get experience in "teaching to the test" for that particular AP subject matter. Latin hasn't been teaching most AP subjects long enough to have developed that type of AP "machine" even if that was an academic goal of the school-- which it really isn't. For those AP classes which Latin has been teaching for a long time, e.g. AP Latin-- they get all 4's and 5's.

Give me a break. They don't all get 4s and 5s.

Hundreds of thousands of homeschooled kids take AP tests every year in this country, with a great many earning high scores. Their families buy readily available prep materials, check them out for free at public libraries, or find them on-line (e.g. on Khan Academy). If the academic goal of the school is teaching kids to a strong classics-based humanities curriculum, ensuring that most of the kids earn decent scores on AP exams just isn't a high bar to clear in view of the school's demographics and the 5th grade entry system. At Wilson, Walls, BASIS and countless suburban schools in this Metro area, a good third of the kids breeze through half a dozen or more AP exams with high scores, let alone 1 with a passing score.

This result tells me that Latin needs to rethink its model, adding far more serious differentiation younger. However you slide it 18.8% on Jay Matthew's site is a disgrace for such a program. Period.

I'm also really surprised by the low pass rate. This means that out of a class of 100 kids (Latin is about that size, right?) fewer than 20 kids passed at least one AP exam? I went to the Latin website to look at the curriculum, but I didn't see anything concrete, just a blurb about the curriculum teaching the wisdom of the ancients. Now the website seems to have crashed and I can't poke around anymore. Is there anywhere for a prospective family to see the sequence of middle school and then high school courses? And what math curriculum do they use?

[Anonymous]

Banneker might also try to create -- or shall we say actively attracting or recruiting? -- some economic diversity. Its profile on the "Most Challenging" high schools list says it has literally zero economic diversity. So that's probably a strong factor affecting its lack of racial diversity, too.

Diversity is a two-way street, imo.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:but people here can keep convincing themselves they are progressive and "would NEVER" be racist. Eye roll.

So will you please commit here that you won't be one of the people screaming "racist gentrification!" when white families start applying to Banneker in mass, even when Banneker becomes a majority white school?

It won't. Because racism.

But like I said, most everyone here can keep trying to convince themselves.

OK, I'll mark that down as a commitment from you not to complain though if it does. I'm bookmarking this thread, because I suspect it might happen sometime in the next 5 years.

Can you explain your "racism" claim? No doubt there are many people who are consciously or subconsciously bigoted. But adding white students to Banneker doesn't take changing everyone in DC. Even if there are only a handful of white families who aren't bigoted, then that's some starting basis to apply to Banneker, right? Are you seriously contending that every white person in all of DC is so bigoted that they will refuse to apply to Banneker because it's a majority black school? Are you saying every single white person is racist? If that's your view, I'd like to hear you say it directly.

Well, I'm white

1) I try to be an ally but because of my inhearent privlidge, I'm still learning about all of the racial undertones that I either grew up with or I am around. I'm not scared to admit I have a lot of learning to do. And one of those things is learning that "good schools" and "bad schools" is usually code for low minority or high minority.

2) I'm not saying every single person in dc is racist. I'm saying that I think the majority of this board is. How many people here would never ever put Banneker on their list? It's rated one of the best high schools. It would be on our list. But no, people see the high number of black students and they are turned off. Many people in here have said they thought it was traditionally a black school. But just looking at the data, 17% identify as Hispanic/Latino, 1% as white, 2% as Asian, and 2% as other race. So no, I don't buy anyone's argument that it "just isn't a good fit for their child". For most people, that's code for something else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Latin had a higher AP percentage in 2013 because they offered fewer APs then. Great AP classes (and exam pass rates) develop over time-- as certain teachers get experience in "teaching to the test" for that particular AP subject matter. Latin hasn't been teaching most AP subjects long enough to have developed that type of AP "machine" even if that was an academic goal of the school-- which it really isn't. For those AP classes which Latin has been teaching for a long time, e.g. AP Latin-- they get all 4's and 5's.

Give me a break. They don't all get 4s and 5s.

Hundreds of thousands of homeschooled kids take AP tests every year in this country, with a great many earning high scores. Their families buy readily available prep materials, check them out for free at public libraries, or find them on-line (e.g. on Khan Academy). If the academic goal of the school is teaching kids to a strong classics-based humanities curriculum, ensuring that most of the kids earn decent scores on AP exams just isn't a high bar to clear in view of the school's demographics and the 5th grade entry system. At Wilson, Walls, BASIS and countless suburban schools in this Metro area, a good third of the kids breeze through half a dozen or more AP exams with high scores, let alone 1 with a passing score.

This result tells me that Latin needs to rethink its model, adding far more serious differentiation younger. However you slide it 18.8% on Jay Matthew's site is a disgrace for such a program. Period.

I'm also really surprised by the low pass rate. This means that out of a class of 100 kids (Latin is about that size, right?) fewer than 20 kids passed at least one AP exam? I went to the Latin website to look at the curriculum, but I didn't see anything concrete, just a blurb about the curriculum teaching the wisdom of the ancients. Now the website seems to have crashed and I can't poke around anymore. Is there anywhere for a prospective family to see the sequence of middle school and then high school courses? And what math curriculum do they use?

In 2016 Latin had 67 seniors. In 2017 they have 89.

I've been unable to find their course catalog online either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Banneker might also try to create -- or shall we say actively attracting or recruiting? -- some economic diversity. Its profile on the "Most Challenging" high schools list says it has literally zero economic diversity. So that's probably a strong factor affecting its lack of racial diversity, too.

Diversity is a two-way street, imo.

DCPS reports ALL Title 1 schools as being 100% economically disadvantaged. There is some other place to find the actual percentage, but data in this system is so dispersed that I can't remember where it is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because an average SAT score, GPA, and AP tests passed says nothing about how individual kids (your kid, my kid) will do at the school. If you don't want to send your kid there, fine. More spots for those of us who want them.

Which is hilarious because people in here go on and on and on about data. Until that school has above 95% minority and then "it's not good for my child".

People in this forum aren't fooling anyone. It almost always comes down to racism, even if the poster doesn't go around using racist terms out loud. The reason why more white people dont look at Banneker is racism pure and simple.

This.

Ugh quit bithching about it and careful what you wish for. Black people have something that white people dont want it boils down to racism right? But when white people decide that it is worth having and move in and displace black people that's racism too... gotcha.

What it sounds like black people really want is to finally have something that white people want but they can't just automatically take form them like everything else they have ever wanted in the history of forever. Banneker will eventually change when there simply isn't enough black people in the district to have a dedicated high school to them selves. When it progresses to 25% white, 50% white or even 60% white will you be happy then?

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Banneker might also try to create -- or shall we say actively attracting or recruiting? -- some economic diversity. Its profile on the "Most Challenging" high schools list says it has literally zero economic diversity. So that's probably a strong factor affecting its lack of racial diversity, too.

Diversity is a two-way street, imo.

DCPS reports ALL Title 1 schools as being 100% economically disadvantaged. There is some other place to find the actual percentage, but data in this system is so dispersed that I can't remember where it is.

https://nces.ed.gov/