Organized Religion seems harmful

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Church/temple is an institution that has the means to bring people together and maintain tradition, if done rightly. Tradition is, in my view, the reason for church to exist today. Traditions are what keeps families together. To give people who need help a place to come to, or for people who want to make friends and have a support system but don't know how to come together. It is time for people to realize that church/temple is a place of gathering/reflection which is sorely needed in this day and age of alienation. It has stopped being about the "right" God and the "right" religion for many people.

Well said. The real benefit of organized religion, in my opinion, is the social / tribal aspect of it. I think it's pretty clear the supernatural stuff is wishful thinking.

In many religions, people are taught to believe in the supernatural stuff and part of what they are taught is that you will suffer after death if you don't believe it. This can be pretty scary, especially to little kids and people are taught this when they are children. On the up side, you will live forever in heaven if you do believe it.

Not the PP who told OP to take her atheism elsewhere. But I suppose this thread is a good outlet for DCUM's two ranting atheists who want to spew their ignorant opinions. For example, there are so many errors, both factual and rhetorical, with the uneducated and bigoted last two posts.

But if you guys promise to stay here in your hate-filled little sandbox, the rest of us can have adult conversations on the other threads.

Deal?

I wish we had a deal where you kept your religion out of politics, so women didn't have men making reproductive choices for them, gays being forced to live with restrictions you don't, and the environment and animals being smothered under your backward logic. I like how you toss around around the word bigoted. It's okay to criticize your nonsense beliefs. All the young people do. In a few years, they'll be running the show. That's right none of them go to church.

Stop already with the sweeping, bigotted generalizations about all religious people. Plenty of us from all faiths want religion out of politics and think it has no place in government. You know this, of course, but acknowledging it would get in the way of you being a bigoted jacka$$.

If you stop being a bigoted jacka$$, then we religious folks won't associate all atheists with the immature, angry bigots on DCUM.

Deal?

Different poster -- I didn't sense that atheist pp was generalizing about religious people, but just taking issue with the person he/she was responding too, who sounded pretty nasty and bigoted to me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Church/temple is an institution that has the means to bring people together and maintain tradition, if done rightly. Tradition is, in my view, the reason for church to exist today. Traditions are what keeps families together. To give people who need help a place to come to, or for people who want to make friends and have a support system but don't know how to come together. It is time for people to realize that church/temple is a place of gathering/reflection which is sorely needed in this day and age of alienation. It has stopped being about the "right" God and the "right" religion for many people.

Well said. The real benefit of organized religion, in my opinion, is the social / tribal aspect of it. I think it's pretty clear the supernatural stuff is wishful thinking.

In many religions, people are taught to believe in the supernatural stuff and part of what they are taught is that you will suffer after death if you don't believe it. This can be pretty scary, especially to little kids and people are taught this when they are children. On the up side, you will live forever in heaven if you do believe it.

Not the PP who told OP to take her atheism elsewhere. But I suppose this thread is a good outlet for DCUM's two ranting atheists who want to spew their ignorant opinions. For example, there are so many errors, both factual and rhetorical, with the uneducated and bigoted last two posts.

But if you guys promise to stay here in your hate-filled little sandbox, the rest of us can have adult conversations on the other threads.

Deal?

I wish we had a deal where you kept your religion out of politics, so women didn't have men making reproductive choices for them, gays being forced to live with restrictions you don't, and the environment and animals being smothered under your backward logic. I like how you toss around around the word bigoted. It's okay to criticize your nonsense beliefs. All the young people do. In a few years, they'll be running the show. That's right none of them go to church.

Stop already with the sweeping, bigotted generalizations about all religious people. Plenty of us from all faiths want religion out of politics and think it has no place in government. You know this, of course, but acknowledging it would get in the way of you being a bigoted jacka$$.

If you stop being a bigoted jacka$$, then we religious folks won't associate all atheists with the immature, angry bigots on DCUM.

Deal?

Different poster -- I didn't sense that atheist pp was generalizing about religious people, but just taking issue with the person he/she was responding too, who sounded pretty nasty and bigoted to me.

Oh you're right. Bigoted atheist assumed incorrectly I'm a Christian. But on that subject, she most clearly writes, in her post above, that all Christians are pro-choice, homophobic climate-change deniers.

Which anybody with a shred of common sense that isn't clouded by bigotry knows to be demonstrably false.

That's what bigotry does to people like atheist pp. if I were you, I'd be concerned that she's tarnishing all atheists with her idiotic bigotry and nastiness.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That is not the attitude or belief system of most religions. You have a lot more to learn.

+1

Plus the organized atheist systems of Nazism and Communism weren't harmful at all.

Labeling Nazis as atheist is exactly the opposite of what actually happened. The Nazis were Christians, not atheists. The Nazis banned atheist organizations and closed secular schools. Heinrich Himmler did not allow atheists into the SS. In fact, the Nazis were very anti-atheist in part because of their hatred for the "godless Communists." Overwhelmingly, the Holocaust was perpetrated and enforced by Christians, not atheists. The Nazi regime was unquestionably a Christian regime, not an atheist regime.

Labeling the nazis a Christian regime is a bit much, no? They may have co-opted Christian labels to pursue their agenda, but only a liar would claim that the nazis were a "Christian" organization.

[Anonymous]

OP, I think you have missed an important element of Christianity--can't speak for all of the worlds other religions-- and that is faith: the belief that these miraculous events occurred despite man's inability to decisively prove they did occur.
Good luck in your journey.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That is not the attitude or belief system of most religions. You have a lot more to learn.

+1

Plus the organized atheist systems of Nazism and Communism weren't harmful at all.

Labeling Nazis as atheist is exactly the opposite of what actually happened. The Nazis were Christians, not atheists. The Nazis banned atheist organizations and closed secular schools. Heinrich Himmler did not allow atheists into the SS. In fact, the Nazis were very anti-atheist in part because of their hatred for the "godless Communists." Overwhelmingly, the Holocaust was perpetrated and enforced by Christians, not atheists. The Nazi regime was unquestionably a Christian regime, not an atheist regime.

Labeling the nazis a Christian regime is a bit much, no? They may have co-opted Christian labels to pursue their agenda, but only a liar would claim that the nazis were a "Christian" organization.

Even people who label themselves "Christian"--or Jewish or Hindu or Muslim--aren't necessarily so by the requirements of their faiths. Just ask moderate Muslims about ISIS. God alone decides who goes to heaven or hell, but in the case of the Nazis it's pretty obvious they were acting in direct opposition to Jesus' teachings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, I think you have missed an important element of Christianity--can't speak for all of the worlds other religions-- and that is faith: the belief that these miraculous events occurred despite man's inability to decisively prove they did occur.
Good luck in your journey.

OP and bigoted atheist PP (same person?) actually deny faith is possible, if you read their posts. Their loss. It starts to sound a bit like climate change, holocaust, or other deniers: "It doesnt doesn't fit my narrative so it can't be true for others."

Good luck, OP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I think you have missed an important element of Christianity--can't speak for all of the worlds other religions-- and that is faith: the belief that these miraculous events occurred despite man's inability to decisively prove they did occur.
Good luck in your journey.

OP and bigoted atheist PP (same person?) actually deny faith is possible, if you read their posts. Their loss. It starts to sound a bit like climate change, holocaust, or other deniers: "It doesnt doesn't fit my narrative so it can't be true for others."

Good luck, OP.

A major difference between atheists and religious people is that atheists don't have faith in religious stories based on supernatural events while religious people often do (e.g., rising from the dead, parting the seas, virgin birth, woman turning into salt). However, some religious people, including the minister who often posts here, don't take these stories as something that must be believed as fact in order to have faith in their religion. They see them as myth and useful metaphors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I think you have missed an important element of Christianity--can't speak for all of the worlds other religions-- and that is faith: the belief that these miraculous events occurred despite man's inability to decisively prove they did occur.
Good luck in your journey.

OP and bigoted atheist PP (same person?) actually deny faith is possible, if you read their posts. Their loss. It starts to sound a bit like climate change, holocaust, or other deniers: "It doesnt doesn't fit my narrative so it can't be true for others."

Good luck, OP.

A major difference between atheists and religious people is that atheists don't have faith in religious stories based on supernatural events while religious people often do (e.g., rising from the dead, parting the seas, virgin birth, woman turning into salt). However, some religious people, including the minister who often posts here, don't take these stories as something that must be believed as fact in order to have faith in their religion. They see them as myth and useful metaphors.

There's also a fairly big difference between faith in stories about Arks and so on, vs. faith in the message itself, whether that message is coming from Moses, Jesus or Mohammed. Atheist PP misses this distinction, but it's the basic distinction between scripture literalists and those who aren't literal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I think you have missed an important element of Christianity--can't speak for all of the worlds other religions-- and that is faith: the belief that these miraculous events occurred despite man's inability to decisively prove they did occur.
Good luck in your journey.

OP and bigoted atheist PP (same person?) actually deny faith is possible, if you read their posts. Their loss. It starts to sound a bit like climate change, holocaust, or other deniers: "It doesnt doesn't fit my narrative so it can't be true for others."

Good luck, OP.

A major difference between atheists and religious people is that atheists don't have faith in religious stories based on supernatural events while religious people often do (e.g., rising from the dead, parting the seas, virgin birth, woman turning into salt). However, some religious people, including the minister who often posts here, don't take these stories as something that must be believed as fact in order to have faith in their religion. They see them as myth and useful metaphors.

There's also a fairly big difference between faith in stories about Arks and so on, vs. faith in the message itself, whether that message is coming from Moses, Jesus or Mohammed. Atheist PP misses this distinction, but it's the basic distinction between scripture literalists and those who aren't literal.

"faith in the message" = "myth and useful metaphors"

[Anonymous]

You guys can gussy up organized religion in fanciful terms, obfuscate things, and try to normalize it all, but at the end of the day you believe in stories that are no more believable than Greek myths. It's 2017. We have the internet. We have observable facts. You try to bend these facts to fit around your narrative and they simply don't fit. All the animals in the world can't fit on one boat. Your parents did you a disservice by raising you on this bs and unfortunately your psyche won't let you escape for fear of some hell that doesn't exist. Let go of the fear. Grow up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You guys can gussy up organized religion in fanciful terms, obfuscate things, and try to normalize it all, but at the end of the day you believe in stories that are no more believable than Greek myths. It's 2017. We have the internet. We have observable facts. You try to bend these facts to fit around your narrative and they simply don't fit. All the animals in the world can't fit on one boat. Your parents did you a disservice by raising you on this bs and unfortunately your psyche won't let you escape for fear of some hell that doesn't exist. Let go of the fear. Grow up.

So many misconceptions wrapped in a package of immaturity and beligerance. You must be so proud of yourself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You guys can gussy up organized religion in fanciful terms, obfuscate things, and try to normalize it all, but at the end of the day you believe in stories that are no more believable than Greek myths. It's 2017. We have the internet. We have observable facts. You try to bend these facts to fit around your narrative and they simply don't fit. All the animals in the world can't fit on one boat. Your parents did you a disservice by raising you on this bs and unfortunately your psyche won't let you escape for fear of some hell that doesn't exist. Let go of the fear. Grow up.

So many misconceptions wrapped in a package of immaturity and beligerance. You must be so proud of yourself.

What part was incorrect?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You guys can gussy up organized religion in fanciful terms, obfuscate things, and try to normalize it all, but at the end of the day you believe in stories that are no more believable than Greek myths. It's 2017. We have the internet. We have observable facts. You try to bend these facts to fit around your narrative and they simply don't fit. All the animals in the world can't fit on one boat. Your parents did you a disservice by raising you on this bs and unfortunately your psyche won't let you escape for fear of some hell that doesn't exist. Let go of the fear. Grow up.

So many misconceptions wrapped in a package of immaturity and beligerance. You must be so proud of yourself.

What part was incorrect?

This poster is just phoning it in. The refusal to understand that such a thing as faith exists. The refusal to understand the distinction between bible literalism/Old Testament stories about arks vs. the deeper messages of all faiths. The refusal to accept that almost nobody is a bible literalist anymore.

You can tell her a million times, but she still always comes back with her same non-answers.

Most likely a troll. I don't think this poster is actually so dense as to be unable to understand, for example, that almost nobody is a bible literalist anymore. She's probably the Horus-Mithras poster given the reference to Greek myths. But does anybody else sometimes wonder if this poster does social media for an atheist group? The wrapper of bigotry and hate is still there. But the rest reads like somebody spewing the party line, without thinking about whether the party line makes any sense in the context of everything else she's been told and knows. Unless you're paid to do this, why spend your life hating on religion, instead of, you know, going out there and enjoying the only life you think you'll get?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You guys can gussy up organized religion in fanciful terms, obfuscate things, and try to normalize it all, but at the end of the day you believe in stories that are no more believable than Greek myths. It's 2017. We have the internet. We have observable facts. You try to bend these facts to fit around your narrative and they simply don't fit. All the animals in the world can't fit on one boat. Your parents did you a disservice by raising you on this bs and unfortunately your psyche won't let you escape for fear of some hell that doesn't exist. Let go of the fear. Grow up.

So many misconceptions wrapped in a package of immaturity and beligerance. You must be so proud of yourself.

What part was incorrect?

This poster is just phoning it in. The refusal to understand that such a thing as faith exists. The refusal to understand the distinction between bible literalism/Old Testament stories about arks vs. the deeper messages of all faiths. The refusal to accept that almost nobody is a bible literalist anymore.

You can tell her a million times, but she still always comes back with her same non-answers.

Most likely a troll. I don't think this poster is actually so dense as to be unable to understand, for example, that almost nobody is a bible literalist anymore. She's probably the Horus-Mithras poster given the reference to Greek myths. But does anybody else sometimes wonder if this poster does social media for an atheist group? The wrapper of bigotry and hate is still there. But the rest reads like somebody spewing the party line, without thinking about whether the party line makes any sense in the context of everything else she's been told and knows. Unless you're paid to do this, why spend your life hating on religion, instead of, you know, going out there and enjoying the only life you think you'll get?

Very few bible literalists? What about Ken Hamm and his quackery, and the 24% of Americans who believe, literally, the earth is less than 10,000 years old? It's these people, for whom reality must bend, you should reserve your ire. The people under the inherent tribalism of organized religion - visibile most places there are war - who judge others and hurt the unusual. Most studies now show that non-religious parents raise less judgemental children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You guys can gussy up organized religion in fanciful terms, obfuscate things, and try to normalize it all, but at the end of the day you believe in stories that are no more believable than Greek myths. It's 2017. We have the internet. We have observable facts. You try to bend these facts to fit around your narrative and they simply don't fit. All the animals in the world can't fit on one boat. Your parents did you a disservice by raising you on this bs and unfortunately your psyche won't let you escape for fear of some hell that doesn't exist. Let go of the fear. Grow up.

Amen.