Should a Teacher be required to Say the pledge

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not everyone in a free, democratic is interested in starting off their day with a loyalty oath. I wouldn't have a problem with the teacher's choice.

+1000 Last I heard, we don't live in North Korea.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, my God is different than your God. Just saying...

And? The Pledge of Allegiance is not religious. Take out the mention of God (two words) if you want. But loyalty and allegiance to this country is, or at least should be, a minimum requirement for teaching in our public schools.

Do you allow dissent in your view of loyalty and allegiance?

Well, in this case we are talking specifically about the Pledge of Allegiance spoken by teachers in a classroom setting. Since the job of a teacher is to provide academic instruction to our children, I would expect that the teacher would be dedicated to providing the best instruction possible in order that our American children have the brightest possible futures.

Context is important.

Rote recitation of the pledge of allegiance has fuck all to do with education.

How many Kindergarten aged kids even know what the words mean?

I cry for our country that people like you live here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is no requirement to say the pledge or even support this country to remain a full and protected citizen. We are not required to participate (vote) in the governing of it either. The opinions of ignorant people who think that their notion of what others should do SO FAR does not supersede what the constitution protects from being imposed on others. I say the pledge when I am somewhere it is said but because I love my country and the freedoms allowed I do not judge individual choice or feel that the flag wearing, hand on heart, proudly allegiance maker is more a part of this country than my fellow citizens who no neither or even go so far as to turn away from the flag (or 'take a knee'): we are a great country because all of this

You don't have to like kids. Heck, you can really, really dislike kids. But that would probably make teaching out of the question for you.

If your goal is to help educate our future U.S. citizens I would hope that you at least like our country and that you aren't secretly hoping that Switzerland kicks our school children's academic azz.

But their job is math and reading, not political indoctrination. You are really delusional.

The bottom line is that a teacher vested in the well being of America is going to put more effort into teaching young American children than a English citizen vested in the well being of England. I suppose you will need a multi million dollar study to prove that though .

PP, you seem to be carefully avoiding the constitutional issues involved. Does the Constitution not matter to you?

The Constitution applies to U.S. citizens. Of course it matters.

The Supreme Court ruled that public schools cannot compel students (and while the case for teachers is a little less clear, teachers have successful fought being forced to say the pledge based on the same ruling) to say the pledge because doing so violates the 1st Amendment. So why do you think your fears about sleeper cells of British teachers are more valid than the findings of the Supreme Court?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not everyone in a free, democratic is interested in starting off their day with a loyalty oath. I wouldn't have a problem with the teacher's choice.

+1000 Last I heard, we don't live in North Korea.

Thank God we don't. And we should never take our freedom for granted.

I'm proud to say the Pledge of Allegiance to this country every morning.

[Anonymous]

My youngest had a teacher in elementary school who didn't say the pledge. One of the children asked, and she answered that it was for personal reasons. That was that. The kids still said the pledge (or not, as appropriate individually) when directed, and the teacher stood quietly, respectfully.

It was a great experience for my kid in a bunch of ways. He learned that not everyone does everything everyone else is doing. He learned that his teacher had her own life. He learned that one does not continue questioning "personal reasons" because it's rude. He learned how to be respectful even when he's not engaging in common behavior. After that experience, he no longer complained about saying grace at his grandparents house - he had learned the concept of being respectful of others beliefs even when he doesn't share them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is no requirement to say the pledge or even support this country to remain a full and protected citizen. We are not required to participate (vote) in the governing of it either. The opinions of ignorant people who think that their notion of what others should do SO FAR does not supersede what the constitution protects from being imposed on others. I say the pledge when I am somewhere it is said but because I love my country and the freedoms allowed I do not judge individual choice or feel that the flag wearing, hand on heart, proudly allegiance maker is more a part of this country than my fellow citizens who no neither or even go so far as to turn away from the flag (or 'take a knee'): we are a great country because all of this

You don't have to like kids. Heck, you can really, really dislike kids. But that would probably make teaching out of the question for you.

If your goal is to help educate our future U.S. citizens I would hope that you at least like our country and that you aren't secretly hoping that Switzerland kicks our school children's academic azz.

But their job is math and reading, not political indoctrination. You are really delusional.

The bottom line is that a teacher vested in the well being of America is going to put more effort into teaching young American children than a English citizen vested in the well being of England. I suppose you will need a multi million dollar study to prove that though .

PP, you seem to be carefully avoiding the constitutional issues involved. Does the Constitution not matter to you?

The Constitution applies to U.S. citizens. Of course it matters.

Logic or information is not a strong suit for your ilk, is it. The Constitution offers the same protections when it comes to this issue to citizens and non-citizens alike. Please just go back into the hole you came out of.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is no requirement to say the pledge or even support this country to remain a full and protected citizen. We are not required to participate (vote) in the governing of it either. The opinions of ignorant people who think that their notion of what others should do SO FAR does not supersede what the constitution protects from being imposed on others. I say the pledge when I am somewhere it is said but because I love my country and the freedoms allowed I do not judge individual choice or feel that the flag wearing, hand on heart, proudly allegiance maker is more a part of this country than my fellow citizens who no neither or even go so far as to turn away from the flag (or 'take a knee'): we are a great country because all of this

You don't have to like kids. Heck, you can really, really dislike kids. But that would probably make teaching out of the question for you.

If your goal is to help educate our future U.S. citizens I would hope that you at least like our country and that you aren't secretly hoping that Switzerland kicks our school children's academic azz.

But their job is math and reading, not political indoctrination. You are really delusional.

The bottom line is that a teacher vested in the well being of America is going to put more effort into teaching young American children than a English citizen vested in the well being of England. I suppose you will need a multi million dollar study to prove that though .

In all my years of teaching, the thought "I hope my American students kick the butts of those Brits" never crossed my mind. I even taught students who were not American citizens and - gasp- expended just as much energy teaching those French kids the same things I was teaching the American ones.

You are an idiot.
Or a troll. I'm hoping troll.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is no requirement to say the pledge or even support this country to remain a full and protected citizen. We are not required to participate (vote) in the governing of it either. The opinions of ignorant people who think that their notion of what others should do SO FAR does not supersede what the constitution protects from being imposed on others. I say the pledge when I am somewhere it is said but because I love my country and the freedoms allowed I do not judge individual choice or feel that the flag wearing, hand on heart, proudly allegiance maker is more a part of this country than my fellow citizens who no neither or even go so far as to turn away from the flag (or 'take a knee'): we are a great country because all of this

You don't have to like kids. Heck, you can really, really dislike kids. But that would probably make teaching out of the question for you.

If your goal is to help educate our future U.S. citizens I would hope that you at least like our country and that you aren't secretly hoping that Switzerland kicks our school children's academic azz.

But their job is math and reading, not political indoctrination. You are really delusional.

The bottom line is that a teacher vested in the well being of America is going to put more effort into teaching young American children than a English citizen vested in the well being of England. I suppose you will need a multi million dollar study to prove that though .

PP, you seem to be carefully avoiding the constitutional issues involved. Does the Constitution not matter to you?

The Constitution applies to U.S. citizens. Of course it matters.

The Supreme Court ruled that public schools cannot compel students (and while the case for teachers is a little less clear, teachers have successful fought being forced to say the pledge based on the same ruling) to say the pledge because doing so violates the 1st Amendment. So why do you think your fears about sleeper cells of British teachers are more valid than the findings of the Supreme Court?

I never said that students should be "forced" to say the Pledge of Allegiance. I do think that teachers are different. If they find the Pledge of Allegiance objectionable or contrary to their personal beliefs will they also have a problem with teaching some of the curriculum as well?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, my God is different than your God. Just saying...

And? The Pledge of Allegiance is not religious. Take out the mention of God (two words) if you want. But loyalty and allegiance to this country is, or at least should be, a minimum requirement for teaching in our public schools.

It is still religious if other people in the room are saying "under God".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is no requirement to say the pledge or even support this country to remain a full and protected citizen. We are not required to participate (vote) in the governing of it either. The opinions of ignorant people who think that their notion of what others should do SO FAR does not supersede what the constitution protects from being imposed on others. I say the pledge when I am somewhere it is said but because I love my country and the freedoms allowed I do not judge individual choice or feel that the flag wearing, hand on heart, proudly allegiance maker is more a part of this country than my fellow citizens who no neither or even go so far as to turn away from the flag (or 'take a knee'): we are a great country because all of this

You don't have to like kids. Heck, you can really, really dislike kids. But that would probably make teaching out of the question for you.

If your goal is to help educate our future U.S. citizens I would hope that you at least like our country and that you aren't secretly hoping that Switzerland kicks our school children's academic azz.

But their job is math and reading, not political indoctrination. You are really delusional.

The bottom line is that a teacher vested in the well being of America is going to put more effort into teaching young American children than a English citizen vested in the well being of England. I suppose you will need a multi million dollar study to prove that though .

In all my years of teaching, the thought "I hope my American students kick the butts of those Brits" never crossed my mind. I even taught students who were not American citizens and - gasp- expended just as much energy teaching those French kids the same things I was teaching the American ones.

You are an idiot.
Or a troll. I'm hoping troll.

Oh, are you a British citizen teaching in an American public school? Or are you an American teacher, teaching in a U.S. public school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is no requirement to say the pledge or even support this country to remain a full and protected citizen. We are not required to participate (vote) in the governing of it either. The opinions of ignorant people who think that their notion of what others should do SO FAR does not supersede what the constitution protects from being imposed on others. I say the pledge when I am somewhere it is said but because I love my country and the freedoms allowed I do not judge individual choice or feel that the flag wearing, hand on heart, proudly allegiance maker is more a part of this country than my fellow citizens who no neither or even go so far as to turn away from the flag (or 'take a knee'): we are a great country because all of this

You don't have to like kids. Heck, you can really, really dislike kids. But that would probably make teaching out of the question for you.

If your goal is to help educate our future U.S. citizens I would hope that you at least like our country and that you aren't secretly hoping that Switzerland kicks our school children's academic azz.

But their job is math and reading, not political indoctrination. You are really delusional.

The bottom line is that a teacher vested in the well being of America is going to put more effort into teaching young American children than a English citizen vested in the well being of England. I suppose you will need a multi million dollar study to prove that though .

PP, you seem to be carefully avoiding the constitutional issues involved. Does the Constitution not matter to you?

The Constitution applies to U.S. citizens. Of course it matters.

The Supreme Court ruled that public schools cannot compel students (and while the case for teachers is a little less clear, teachers have successful fought being forced to say the pledge based on the same ruling) to say the pledge because doing so violates the 1st Amendment. So why do you think your fears about sleeper cells of British teachers are more valid than the findings of the Supreme Court?

I never said that students should be "forced" to say the Pledge of Allegiance. I do think that teachers are different. If they find the Pledge of Allegiance objectionable or contrary to their personal beliefs will they also have a problem with teaching some of the curriculum as well?

LOL... Like what? 2+2=5?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is no requirement to say the pledge or even support this country to remain a full and protected citizen. We are not required to participate (vote) in the governing of it either. The opinions of ignorant people who think that their notion of what others should do SO FAR does not supersede what the constitution protects from being imposed on others. I say the pledge when I am somewhere it is said but because I love my country and the freedoms allowed I do not judge individual choice or feel that the flag wearing, hand on heart, proudly allegiance maker is more a part of this country than my fellow citizens who no neither or even go so far as to turn away from the flag (or 'take a knee'): we are a great country because all of this

You don't have to like kids. Heck, you can really, really dislike kids. But that would probably make teaching out of the question for you.

If your goal is to help educate our future U.S. citizens I would hope that you at least like our country and that you aren't secretly hoping that Switzerland kicks our school children's academic azz.

But their job is math and reading, not political indoctrination. You are really delusional.

The bottom line is that a teacher vested in the well being of America is going to put more effort into teaching young American children than a English citizen vested in the well being of England. I suppose you will need a multi million dollar study to prove that though .

In all my years of teaching, the thought "I hope my American students kick the butts of those Brits" never crossed my mind. I even taught students who were not American citizens and - gasp- expended just as much energy teaching those French kids the same things I was teaching the American ones.

You are an idiot.
Or a troll. I'm hoping troll.

Oh, are you a British citizen teaching in an American public school? Or are you an American teacher, teaching in a U.S. public school?

You have a serious reading comprehension issue...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is no requirement to say the pledge or even support this country to remain a full and protected citizen. We are not required to participate (vote) in the governing of it either. The opinions of ignorant people who think that their notion of what others should do SO FAR does not supersede what the constitution protects from being imposed on others. I say the pledge when I am somewhere it is said but because I love my country and the freedoms allowed I do not judge individual choice or feel that the flag wearing, hand on heart, proudly allegiance maker is more a part of this country than my fellow citizens who no neither or even go so far as to turn away from the flag (or 'take a knee'): we are a great country because all of this

You don't have to like kids. Heck, you can really, really dislike kids. But that would probably make teaching out of the question for you.

If your goal is to help educate our future U.S. citizens I would hope that you at least like our country and that you aren't secretly hoping that Switzerland kicks our school children's academic azz.

But their job is math and reading, not political indoctrination. You are really delusional.

The bottom line is that a teacher vested in the well being of America is going to put more effort into teaching young American children than a English citizen vested in the well being of England. I suppose you will need a multi million dollar study to prove that though .

In all my years of teaching, the thought "I hope my American students kick the butts of those Brits" never crossed my mind. I even taught students who were not American citizens and - gasp- expended just as much energy teaching those French kids the same things I was teaching the American ones.

You are an idiot.
Or a troll. I'm hoping troll.

Oh, are you a British citizen teaching in an American public school? Or are you an American teacher, teaching in a U.S. public school?

You have a serious reading comprehension issue...

And I really hope that you don't call your students "idiots".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's not a republic. It's an oligarchy.

It's a country. Not a nation.

There is not liberty and justice for all.

It's not indivisible.

It's a stupid pledge. Thinking anyone should be forced to say it is even stupider.

+1

I'm a high school math teacher. I don't say the pledge because I think it is ridiculous to say those words every day. I invite all you pledge lovers to begin each day at your work by solemnly standing up and reciting the pledge before getting back to work. Better yet, try to get everyone in your office on board and lead them in a group recitation of the pledge every morning. See how long that lasts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is no requirement to say the pledge or even support this country to remain a full and protected citizen. We are not required to participate (vote) in the governing of it either. The opinions of ignorant people who think that their notion of what others should do SO FAR does not supersede what the constitution protects from being imposed on others. I say the pledge when I am somewhere it is said but because I love my country and the freedoms allowed I do not judge individual choice or feel that the flag wearing, hand on heart, proudly allegiance maker is more a part of this country than my fellow citizens who no neither or even go so far as to turn away from the flag (or 'take a knee'): we are a great country because all of this

You don't have to like kids. Heck, you can really, really dislike kids. But that would probably make teaching out of the question for you.

If your goal is to help educate our future U.S. citizens I would hope that you at least like our country and that you aren't secretly hoping that Switzerland kicks our school children's academic azz.

But their job is math and reading, not political indoctrination. You are really delusional.

The bottom line is that a teacher vested in the well being of America is going to put more effort into teaching young American children than a English citizen vested in the well being of England. I suppose you will need a multi million dollar study to prove that though .

PP, you seem to be carefully avoiding the constitutional issues involved. Does the Constitution not matter to you?

The Constitution applies to U.S. citizens. Of course it matters.

Logic or information is not a strong suit for your ilk, is it. The Constitution offers the same protections when it comes to this issue to citizens and non-citizens alike. Please just go back into the hole you came out of.

Actually, I don't think that non-citizens get the exact same protections as U.S. citizens....I'm not well versed on Constitutional law (not sure why I would be, I'm not a Constitutional law attorney).