Is this problem too hard for a second grader?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DD has always done well in math, but this year suddenly she's saying she hates it. She brought home some worksheets that they were doing in class, and they seemed very confusing to me. For example, one was a word problem that required division, although it didn't use that word. It said someone had 100 pieces of candy and wanted to give five to each person in the class, and there are 25 people in the class. How many would each person get? Another said someone had 50 apples and wanted to put 2 in each basket, and so on. My DD had meticulously drawn out one hundred pieces of candy and then grouped them into 5's and done the whole thing that way...she actually got the answers right, but complained that it was hard. She has never learned either division or multiplication in school, and last year worked mostly with numbers less than 20, so this seems too difficult to me. Is your child doing work like this in 2nd? Do you think they could do it, if they did have it? This is public.

So what's the problem? She could, in fact, do the problem. It was challenging. So what? What's the problem? You want her to just get easy problems?

How about instruction that doesn't make the child hate math and dread school? Is that too much to ask?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes. Standard second grade curriculum.

It's early in the year. They're working on the concepts. It's about understanding what "division" means in real life. So it's more than just a mechanical function. The goal is for kids to experience division -- not just learn the rote rules.

More generally, it's ok that homework is hard sometimes. As a parent, our job is to teach our kids that it's ok to struggle with learning. It's ok to be confused. It's ok to have to think about things in different ways and keep coming back to it until we figure out how to do it. It doesn't mean we're dumb or that the work is too hard. Sometimes learning comes easily and sometimes it take more time. Both are ok. It's how we grow.

I'd worry less about whether she got the "right" answer and focus on encouraging her CURIOUSITY, her PERSISTENCE (not give up when things get hard) and her RESILIENCE (not letting it upset or get to her when things are difficult.) That's learning. Sometimes it's easy and sometimes it's hard. Either way, her brain is GROWING and getting STRONGER, and that's awesome.

Maybe think of an example in your own life when it took you awhile to learn something. Where you had to put in a lot of time and effort before something clicked for you. For me, it was weekly spelling words (never came easy) and later in law school (certain classes took months to click before they came together for me). But you're proud that you STUCK WITH IT and DIDN'T GIVE UP. That effort and mindset made you even smarter!!!

OP here - Let me be clear - this was NOT homework. This was done in class, with no assistance (30 kids in class), and she did not finish it, so it was sent home for her to finish.

I disagree with you that it is OK to struggle - if a child is asked to do a problem and doesn't have the tools to do it, it only leads to frustration. My DD did not feel good about getting the right answers. She said it was hard, and by hard she meant tedious and boring. She now hates math. So she isn't getting any pride from this at all.

Learning only occurs when a child struggles between current understanding and acquiring new knowledge. It is what Vygitsky called "The zone of proximal development."

+1

OP, you're really missing the point here. Your daughter is 8. Focus on helping her develop a positive attitude about school, classwork and learning more generally.

Learning will not always be easy. Classwork will not always be interesting. She will not always be given the tools she needs. Sometimes she will struggle. Sometimes she will be bored. This is all part of learning.

As a parent, focus less on the right answer and more on the right attitude. Help her to do the same.

As a parent, spend less time blaming the teacher for not teaching properly and spend more time helping your daughter be resourceful.

In our house, "I don't know, but let's figure it out!" is our go-to phrase. No excuses or complaints. We figure it out and get it done.

OP here. She is not 8, she is 7. She won't turn 8 until the end of March. Unfortunately, there is little I can do to help her. She just doesn't want to work with me at all. I can't teach her anything, and she's always been that way. It's sad, but I can barely even talk to her. She is interested in her friends and that's it, and will throw an absolute fit if I try to read with her or help with homework or anything. My husband can do it, but not me. So I wish I had one of these kids that apparently people can talk to and teach things, but that's not my kid. I have to rely on the school to teach. I checked and division is not taught in 2nd grade at all. Not even multiplication.

We don't allow working with parents to be optional or supplementing to be option. If you want screen time, you do it and cooperate. Simple. No, they are not taught in second grade. We are working on multiplication at home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes. Standard second grade curriculum.

It's early in the year. They're working on the concepts. It's about understanding what "division" means in real life. So it's more than just a mechanical function. The goal is for kids to experience division -- not just learn the rote rules.

More generally, it's ok that homework is hard sometimes. As a parent, our job is to teach our kids that it's ok to struggle with learning. It's ok to be confused. It's ok to have to think about things in different ways and keep coming back to it until we figure out how to do it. It doesn't mean we're dumb or that the work is too hard. Sometimes learning comes easily and sometimes it take more time. Both are ok. It's how we grow.

I'd worry less about whether she got the "right" answer and focus on encouraging her CURIOUSITY, her PERSISTENCE (not give up when things get hard) and her RESILIENCE (not letting it upset or get to her when things are difficult.) That's learning. Sometimes it's easy and sometimes it's hard. Either way, her brain is GROWING and getting STRONGER, and that's awesome.

Maybe think of an example in your own life when it took you awhile to learn something. Where you had to put in a lot of time and effort before something clicked for you. For me, it was weekly spelling words (never came easy) and later in law school (certain classes took months to click before they came together for me). But you're proud that you STUCK WITH IT and DIDN'T GIVE UP. That effort and mindset made you even smarter!!!

OP here - Let me be clear - this was NOT homework. This was done in class, with no assistance (30 kids in class), and she did not finish it, so it was sent home for her to finish.

I disagree with you that it is OK to struggle - if a child is asked to do a problem and doesn't have the tools to do it, it only leads to frustration. My DD did not feel good about getting the right answers. She said it was hard, and by hard she meant tedious and boring. She now hates math. So she isn't getting any pride from this at all.

Learning only occurs when a child struggles between current understanding and acquiring new knowledge. It is what Vygitsky called "The zone of proximal development."

+1

OP, you're really missing the point here. Your daughter is 8. Focus on helping her develop a positive attitude about school, classwork and learning more generally.

Learning will not always be easy. Classwork will not always be interesting. She will not always be given the tools she needs. Sometimes she will struggle. Sometimes she will be bored. This is all part of learning.

As a parent, focus less on the right answer and more on the right attitude. Help her to do the same.

As a parent, spend less time blaming the teacher for not teaching properly and spend more time helping your daughter be resourceful.

In our house, "I don't know, but let's figure it out!" is our go-to phrase. No excuses or complaints. We figure it out and get it done.

OP here. She is not 8, she is 7. She won't turn 8 until the end of March. Unfortunately, there is little I can do to help her. She just doesn't want to work with me at all. I can't teach her anything, and she's always been that way. It's sad, but I can barely even talk to her. She is interested in her friends and that's it, and will throw an absolute fit if I try to read with her or help with homework or anything. My husband can do it, but not me. So I wish I had one of these kids that apparently people can talk to and teach things, but that's not my kid. I have to rely on the school to teach. I checked and division is not taught in 2nd grade at all. Not even multiplication.

Well come on. This is obv your real problem, not the math which she got right anyway but you felt the need to complain about for four pages before you finally admitted to the actual problem (bratty daughter who gives you attitude). That's a discipline problem, you must realize that has nothing to do with CC!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes. Standard second grade curriculum.

It's early in the year. They're working on the concepts. It's about understanding what "division" means in real life. So it's more than just a mechanical function. The goal is for kids to experience division -- not just learn the rote rules.

More generally, it's ok that homework is hard sometimes. As a parent, our job is to teach our kids that it's ok to struggle with learning. It's ok to be confused. It's ok to have to think about things in different ways and keep coming back to it until we figure out how to do it. It doesn't mean we're dumb or that the work is too hard. Sometimes learning comes easily and sometimes it take more time. Both are ok. It's how we grow.

I'd worry less about whether she got the "right" answer and focus on encouraging her CURIOUSITY, her PERSISTENCE (not give up when things get hard) and her RESILIENCE (not letting it upset or get to her when things are difficult.) That's learning. Sometimes it's easy and sometimes it's hard. Either way, her brain is GROWING and getting STRONGER, and that's awesome.

Maybe think of an example in your own life when it took you awhile to learn something. Where you had to put in a lot of time and effort before something clicked for you. For me, it was weekly spelling words (never came easy) and later in law school (certain classes took months to click before they came together for me). But you're proud that you STUCK WITH IT and DIDN'T GIVE UP. That effort and mindset made you even smarter!!!

OP here - Let me be clear - this was NOT homework. This was done in class, with no assistance (30 kids in class), and she did not finish it, so it was sent home for her to finish.

I disagree with you that it is OK to struggle - if a child is asked to do a problem and doesn't have the tools to do it, it only leads to frustration. My DD did not feel good about getting the right answers. She said it was hard, and by hard she meant tedious and boring. She now hates math. So she isn't getting any pride from this at all.

Learning only occurs when a child struggles between current understanding and acquiring new knowledge. It is what Vygitsky called "The zone of proximal development."

+1

OP, you're really missing the point here. Your daughter is 8. Focus on helping her develop a positive attitude about school, classwork and learning more generally.

Learning will not always be easy. Classwork will not always be interesting. She will not always be given the tools she needs. Sometimes she will struggle. Sometimes she will be bored. This is all part of learning.

As a parent, focus less on the right answer and more on the right attitude. Help her to do the same.

As a parent, spend less time blaming the teacher for not teaching properly and spend more time helping your daughter be resourceful.

In our house, "I don't know, but let's figure it out!" is our go-to phrase. No excuses or complaints. We figure it out and get it done.

OP here. She is not 8, she is 7. She won't turn 8 until the end of March. Unfortunately, there is little I can do to help her. She just doesn't want to work with me at all. I can't teach her anything, and she's always been that way. It's sad, but I can barely even talk to her. She is interested in her friends and that's it, and will throw an absolute fit if I try to read with her or help with homework or anything. My husband can do it, but not me. So I wish I had one of these kids that apparently people can talk to and teach things, but that's not my kid. I have to rely on the school to teach. I checked and division is not taught in 2nd grade at all. Not even multiplication.

This is so ridiculous I don't even know where to start. You have a discipline problem here. Tell your daughter she is not allowed to have X (tv, friends over, dessert, whatever) if she gives you sass or grief about homework. About the math - no they are not teaching multiplication or division yet but this problem and others like it are supposed to lay the groundwork for understanding how it works beyond straight memorization.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It works for some kids, and is an abysmal failure for many others, who need the concrete before the abstract.

So you would claim that 25 x 5 = 100, or 5 + 5 = 10 is more "concrete" than distributing 100 pieces of candy to 25 people (or drawing a picture of doing so)?

The whole point of 5 + 5 = 10 is that it is a symbolic (abstract) language that is shorthand for the concrete (10 actual things).

I think your issue is that you're scared of word problems. Children don't see them as word problems. They see them like stories, and the pictures help them to understand the math involved.

Hmm. It may not be too hard for 2nd graders but it's too hard for some DCUMers.

Seriously! Did no one else get that the PP wrote 25X5 = 100? I am not scared of my kid doing word problems, I am scared of my kid being given poorly written math word problems. The first example of 100 candies, everyone wants 5, and there are 25 people is a poorly written question. You have to establish that the candy has to be shared equally or it isn't a division problem. The poorly written math curriculum that comes home is a joke. I have to buy Singapore math books (from Marshall Cavendish publishers) so my kids will really learn math as well as kids in other parts of the world.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes. Standard second grade curriculum.

It's early in the year. They're working on the concepts. It's about understanding what "division" means in real life. So it's more than just a mechanical function. The goal is for kids to experience division -- not just learn the rote rules.

More generally, it's ok that homework is hard sometimes. As a parent, our job is to teach our kids that it's ok to struggle with learning. It's ok to be confused. It's ok to have to think about things in different ways and keep coming back to it until we figure out how to do it. It doesn't mean we're dumb or that the work is too hard. Sometimes learning comes easily and sometimes it take more time. Both are ok. It's how we grow.

I'd worry less about whether she got the "right" answer and focus on encouraging her CURIOUSITY, her PERSISTENCE (not give up when things get hard) and her RESILIENCE (not letting it upset or get to her when things are difficult.) That's learning. Sometimes it's easy and sometimes it's hard. Either way, her brain is GROWING and getting STRONGER, and that's awesome.

Maybe think of an example in your own life when it took you awhile to learn something. Where you had to put in a lot of time and effort before something clicked for you. For me, it was weekly spelling words (never came easy) and later in law school (certain classes took months to click before they came together for me). But you're proud that you STUCK WITH IT and DIDN'T GIVE UP. That effort and mindset made you even smarter!!!

OP here - Let me be clear - this was NOT homework. This was done in class, with no assistance (30 kids in class), and she did not finish it, so it was sent home for her to finish.

I disagree with you that it is OK to struggle - if a child is asked to do a problem and doesn't have the tools to do it, it only leads to frustration. My DD did not feel good about getting the right answers. She said it was hard, and by hard she meant tedious and boring. She now hates math. So she isn't getting any pride from this at all.

Learning only occurs when a child struggles between current understanding and acquiring new knowledge. It is what Vygitsky called "The zone of proximal development."

+1

OP, you're really missing the point here. Your daughter is 8. Focus on helping her develop a positive attitude about school, classwork and learning more generally.

Learning will not always be easy. Classwork will not always be interesting. She will not always be given the tools she needs. Sometimes she will struggle. Sometimes she will be bored. This is all part of learning.

As a parent, focus less on the right answer and more on the right attitude. Help her to do the same.

As a parent, spend less time blaming the teacher for not teaching properly and spend more time helping your daughter be resourceful.

In our house, "I don't know, but let's figure it out!" is our go-to phrase. No excuses or complaints. We figure it out and get it done.

OP here. She is not 8, she is 7. She won't turn 8 until the end of March. Unfortunately, there is little I can do to help her. She just doesn't want to work with me at all. I can't teach her anything, and she's always been that way. It's sad, but I can barely even talk to her. She is interested in her friends and that's it, and will throw an absolute fit if I try to read with her or help with homework or anything. My husband can do it, but not me. So I wish I had one of these kids that apparently people can talk to and teach things, but that's not my kid. I have to rely on the school to teach. I checked and division is not taught in 2nd grade at all. Not even multiplication.

This is so ridiculous I don't even know where to start. You have a discipline problem here. Tell your daughter she is not allowed to have X (tv, friends over, dessert, whatever) if she gives you sass or grief about homework. About the math - no they are not teaching multiplication or division yet but this problem and others like it are supposed to lay the groundwork for understanding how it works beyond straight memorization.

Exactly. Where you able to throw an absolute fit on your mom growing up? Even if she doesn't for your husband, how does he allow her to treat you like that. How do you?

Sounds like you need the Super Nanny more than a tutor.

[Anonymous]

Sorry if I'm repeating something that was already noted (I didn't see it but I was skimming), but one thing that jumped out at me about the problems was how the units used mimic the units of money in coins, which they teach heavily in first and second grade. Without having learned multiplication and division, by second grade a child should pretty readily know that a quarter is 25 cents and there are four quarters in a dollar, which is equal to 100 cents. Translating that exercise to 100 units of candy being broken down into groupings of 25 students is a good check on whether a child had a true conceptual understanding of what they learned previously, or if they simply memorized 4 quarters = 1 dollar. If your child is struggling to translate what they learned previously like that, it may suggest some gaps in her earlier learning that need to be addressed.

[Anonymous]

After skating through first grade, I'm happy to see my second grader struggle at times. I think it's a great question for that age.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes. Standard second grade curriculum.

It's early in the year. They're working on the concepts. It's about understanding what "division" means in real life. So it's more than just a mechanical function. The goal is for kids to experience division -- not just learn the rote rules.

More generally, it's ok that homework is hard sometimes. As a parent, our job is to teach our kids that it's ok to struggle with learning. It's ok to be confused. It's ok to have to think about things in different ways and keep coming back to it until we figure out how to do it. It doesn't mean we're dumb or that the work is too hard. Sometimes learning comes easily and sometimes it take more time. Both are ok. It's how we grow.

I'd worry less about whether she got the "right" answer and focus on encouraging her CURIOUSITY, her PERSISTENCE (not give up when things get hard) and her RESILIENCE (not letting it upset or get to her when things are difficult.) That's learning. Sometimes it's easy and sometimes it's hard. Either way, her brain is GROWING and getting STRONGER, and that's awesome.

Maybe think of an example in your own life when it took you awhile to learn something. Where you had to put in a lot of time and effort before something clicked for you. For me, it was weekly spelling words (never came easy) and later in law school (certain classes took months to click before they came together for me). But you're proud that you STUCK WITH IT and DIDN'T GIVE UP. That effort and mindset made you even smarter!!!

This. Although, I'm not a fan of homework for second graders in the first place. They should work on these concepts in class so the teacher can help them and see where they struggle. Home time should be for family and fun.

[Anonymous]

OP here. She is not 8, she is 7. She won't turn 8 until the end of March. Unfortunately, there is little I can do to help her. She just doesn't want to work with me at all. I can't teach her anything, and she's always been that way. It's sad, but I can barely even talk to her. She is interested in her friends and that's it, and will throw an absolute fit if I try to read with her or help with homework or anything. My husband can do it, but not me. So I wish I had one of these kids that apparently people can talk to and teach things, but that's not my kid. I have to rely on the school to teach. I checked and division is not taught in 2nd grade at all. Not even multiplication.

Your main problem is not the teacher or the work. My son is a 7 year old second grader who just turned 7 in August - so he won't be 8 till next August. But he would definitely never refuse to work with me to do school work or homework. I would simply not tolerate it. Nor would I tolerate him "barely even talking to me." He's 7, it is my house, and I will not be treated that way. Any and all privileges, ipad time, tv, play dates would be gone until the situation changed. The math problem itself is somewhat difficult, and the fact that there was a seeming mistake in the problem makes it more difficult, but it is definitely something that my 7 year old second grader could ultimately accomplish with some help and guidance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

OP here. She is not 8, she is 7. She won't turn 8 until the end of March. Unfortunately, there is little I can do to help her. She just doesn't want to work with me at all. I can't teach her anything, and she's always been that way. It's sad, but I can barely even talk to her. She is interested in her friends and that's it, and will throw an absolute fit if I try to read with her or help with homework or anything. My husband can do it, but not me. So I wish I had one of these kids that apparently people can talk to and teach things, but that's not my kid. I have to rely on the school to teach. I checked and division is not taught in 2nd grade at all. Not even multiplication.

Your main problem is not the teacher or the work. My son is a 7 year old second grader who just turned 7 in August - so he won't be 8 till next August. But he would definitely never refuse to work with me to do school work or homework. I would simply not tolerate it. Nor would I tolerate him "barely even talking to me." He's 7, it is my house, and I will not be treated that way. Any and all privileges, ipad time, tv, play dates would be gone until the situation changed. The math problem itself is somewhat difficult, and the fact that there was a seeming mistake in the problem makes it more difficult, but it is definitely something that my 7 year old second grader could ultimately accomplish with some help and guidance.

This works only if you have a child for whom it works. I won't dispute that OP probably needs to take a different approach with her daughter to address the behavioral issues because simply clearing away stressors isn't the best one, but what you described would be really damaging to some children. Not every child can be metaphorically beaten into submission, and OP needs to work with the child she has, not the child you think she has based on the child you have.

[Anonymous]

Your main problem is not the teacher or the work. My son is a 7 year old second grader who just turned 7 in August - so he won't be 8 till next August. But he would definitely never refuse to work with me to do school work or homework. I would simply not tolerate it. Nor would I tolerate him "barely even talking to me." He's 7, it is my house, and I will not be treated that way. Any and all privileges, ipad time, tv, play dates would be gone until the situation changed. The math problem itself is somewhat difficult, and the fact that there was a seeming mistake in the problem makes it more difficult, but it is definitely something that my 7 year old second grader could ultimately accomplish with some help and guidance.

This works only if you have a child for whom it works. I won't dispute that OP probably needs to take a different approach with her daughter to address the behavioral issues because simply clearing away stressors isn't the best one, but what you described would be really damaging to some children. Not every child can be metaphorically beaten into submission, and OP needs to work with the child she has, not the child you think she has based on the child you have.

Really damaging? Whatever. She's free to keep lamenting about the math problems and her daughter's treatment of her and keep the status quo. Her problem, not mine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Your main problem is not the teacher or the work. My son is a 7 year old second grader who just turned 7 in August - so he won't be 8 till next August. But he would definitely never refuse to work with me to do school work or homework. I would simply not tolerate it. Nor would I tolerate him "barely even talking to me." He's 7, it is my house, and I will not be treated that way. Any and all privileges, ipad time, tv, play dates would be gone until the situation changed. The math problem itself is somewhat difficult, and the fact that there was a seeming mistake in the problem makes it more difficult, but it is definitely something that my 7 year old second grader could ultimately accomplish with some help and guidance.

This works only if you have a child for whom it works. I won't dispute that OP probably needs to take a different approach with her daughter to address the behavioral issues because simply clearing away stressors isn't the best one, but what you described would be really damaging to some children. Not every child can be metaphorically beaten into submission, and OP needs to work with the child she has, not the child you think she has based on the child you have.

Really damaging? Whatever. She's free to keep lamenting about the math problems and her daughter's treatment of her and keep the status quo. Her problem, not mine.

+1. People like PP contribute to the continued pussification of America.

[Anonymous]

Haven't read the whole thread, but IMHO the problem is not too hard. I would focus on achievement aspect - as in, yes, Larla, it took a lot of time but you persevered and see, you got it right! Now, guess what - you just did division! And while it seemed hard the first time, you'll soon learn to do it very fast.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Your main problem is not the teacher or the work. My son is a 7 year old second grader who just turned 7 in August - so he won't be 8 till next August. But he would definitely never refuse to work with me to do school work or homework. I would simply not tolerate it. Nor would I tolerate him "barely even talking to me." He's 7, it is my house, and I will not be treated that way. Any and all privileges, ipad time, tv, play dates would be gone until the situation changed. The math problem itself is somewhat difficult, and the fact that there was a seeming mistake in the problem makes it more difficult, but it is definitely something that my 7 year old second grader could ultimately accomplish with some help and guidance.

This works only if you have a child for whom it works. I won't dispute that OP probably needs to take a different approach with her daughter to address the behavioral issues because simply clearing away stressors isn't the best one, but what you described would be really damaging to some children. Not every child can be metaphorically beaten into submission, and OP needs to work with the child she has, not the child you think she has based on the child you have.

Really damaging? Whatever. She's free to keep lamenting about the math problems and her daughter's treatment of her and keep the status quo. Her problem, not mine.

+1. People like PP contribute to the continued pussification of America.

Yep, that's what I did when I gave up trying to force compliance, educated myself a bit, and tried a different approach with my own child who had many similar behavioral issues. And very quickly, my child stopped having tantrums about homework, stopped fighting me when I offered guidance, etc. He became happy, cooperative, and high-achieving at school and in his outside activities. But if you want to call a happy, well-behaving and engaged child "pussified," that's your business. Fortunately only your children will have to suffer for it, not mine.