Is this problem too hard for a second grader?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DD has always done well in math, but this year suddenly she's saying she hates it. She brought home some worksheets that they were doing in class, and they seemed very confusing to me. For example, one was a word problem that required division, although it didn't use that word. It said someone had 100 pieces of candy and wanted to give five to each person in the class, and there are 25 people in the class. How many would each person get? Another said someone had 50 apples and wanted to put 2 in each basket, and so on. My DD had meticulously drawn out one hundred pieces of candy and then grouped them into 5's and done the whole thing that way...she actually got the answers right, but complained that it was hard. She has never learned either division or multiplication in school, and last year worked mostly with numbers less than 20, so this seems too difficult to me. Is your child doing work like this in 2nd? Do you think they could do it, if they did have it? This is public.

I'm sorry but what does it mean to have "always done well in math" when your kid is in the very beginning of SECOND GRADE? kindergarten and first grade math = 7 + 7. Woo hard.

Look if your kid is finding this word problem hard, she's not that good at math FYI. Your OP is revealing but not in the way you think.

You're both wrong. (How's that for the quintessential DCUM response? Ha ha!)

But seriously, a second grader (and her parent) needs to learn ASAP that there's no such thing as being "good at math" or "bad at math."

Math is a skill. It's something we learn. ANYONE can learn it. ANYONE can do it.

Math ability is not an inborn, genetic trait (like having blue eyes or brown eyes). Sure there are some people for whom it comes really easily in the beginning. And some who face more substantial challenges than average. But for the rest of us, it's just a skill. That we learn. By listening. By experience. By trial-and-ERROR. By practicing.

This whole "not good at math" or "good at math" mindset is total BS. The sooner parents get it out of their vocabulary, the better.

Why not focus on teaching kids to PLAY with numbers? To get excited about a CHALLENGE? To have fun when they FIGURE THINGS OUT? To see what their inner computer (their mind) can do when they APPLY THEMSELVES?

And of course, stop worrying so much whether an eight year old "does well" or "gets the right answer" on any particular piece of homework. That's so not the point of an education.

[Anonymous]

It's good that the kids are given thoughtful word problems.

Except I happen to know that they're not being explained adequately in class... there is a wide chasm between the dumbed down worksheets and these word problems, and somehow the kids are expected to go from one to the other effortlessly.

Another example of poor math teaching.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's good that the kids are given thoughtful word problems.

Except I happen to know that they're not being explained adequately in class... there is a wide chasm between the dumbed down worksheets and these word problems, and somehow the kids are expected to go from one to the other effortlessly.

Another example of poor math teaching.

Yes!!!

Elementary school teachers usually make the WORST math teachers. It is so sad the way it works in this country. Think about your average elementary school teacher: white suburban chick who avoided math in college and went into teaching because she "loves" kids. Most of them majored in a soft social science like psychology. And now we're entrusting her to foster the basic building blocks of math education which you need to be successful in so many fields from finance to engineering? It's really terrible.

[Anonymous]

They need adult math classes so we can learn some things to teach the kids when they are stuck. Then again, if they try to figure it out themselves, that is a good thing.

If they want to learn math, look at the Asians math system. A lot of them are good at it. So, they must be doing something right.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They need adult math classes so we can learn some things to teach the kids when they are stuck. Then again, if they try to figure it out themselves, that is a good thing.

If they want to learn math, look at the Asians math system. A lot of them are good at it. So, they must be doing something right.

Asia is a pretty big place.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is the stupid new way they teach math now.

They should be memorizing the facts first the way math has always been taught.

I am sorry. Where's the proof in American education and worldwide standings, and our overall success in math, that shows that the old way actually worked?

I don't get that problem. We have done it both ways and traditional works much better. We just switched to MCPS and the curriculum is not impressive, to put it nicely.

I respectfully disagree.

DD is now in third grade and thoroughly understands the concepts AND has memorized the facts. She's got both.

Not because we drilled her on them. But because the class worked with the numbers so many different times and ways in first and second grade that she just knows them now. Addition and subtraction combos and most multiplication combos, too. My guess is the rest will be cemented in her head soon enough. They practice and play a billion different ways.

To me, this is a huge improvement. Not necessarily now in 2nd/3rd grade. But looking ahead to 8th grade and beyond. This is where kids separate out in to those who feel confident in math and those who don't.

By eight grade, kids who are strong with computation because they memorized the basics are at risk for leveling out (or stressing out) when math becomes more conceptual. Kids who took in the concepts and are excited about them as "puzzles" rather than memorization are more confident with and open to advanced math.

Of course, YMMV. But my experience is that it's not either/or. It's both/and.

+1 DS is just now realizing that the kids who did best in memorizing "fast facts" in the early grades are not all in the advanced math classes. Some of the kids who were slower with those fast tests, but know the answers, but also understood the concepts and the "why" questions and liked playing with numbers ... those kids are finding Algebra to be a breeze. Allowing a lot of time to manipulate numbers and patters and groupings and think through real-life number stories in the early grades is ... genius. Wish they had done more of that when I was young. Rote memorization doesn't teach you much about math.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They need adult math classes so we can learn some things to teach the kids when they are stuck. Then again, if they try to figure it out themselves, that is a good thing.

If they want to learn math, look at the Asians math system. A lot of them are good at it. So, they must be doing something right.

Google and khan academy are really good at explaining what the kids are doing.

[Anonymous]

OP instead of making her draw it all out, I'd teach it to my kid as a subtraction problem.

Take your 100 candies and give 1 to each kid, that's minus 25. How many left?
Repeat until you can't go any further.

Then talk to her about how that means 25 "goes into" 100 4 times or 100 divided by 25 is 4.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's good that the kids are given thoughtful word problems.

Except I happen to know that they're not being explained adequately in class... there is a wide chasm between the dumbed down worksheets and these word problems, and somehow the kids are expected to go from one to the other effortlessly.

Another example of poor math teaching.

I'm so confused. My kid's word problems are on the worksheets.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP instead of making her draw it all out, I'd teach it to my kid as a subtraction problem.

Take your 100 candies and give 1 to each kid, that's minus 25. How many left?
Repeat until you can't go any further.

Then talk to her about how that means 25 "goes into" 100 4 times or 100 divided by 25 is 4.

Repeated subtraction is also a tool the kids learn.

The problem with what you are advising is that the child needs to show the teacher she has learned all the techniques. She doesn't have to keep using all the techniques, but you have to learn them all. If the teacher is looking for 100 circles grouped in a certain way, your method would be a problem. They are not just teaching the answer, but also various strategies.

[Anonymous]

Just wait until she has to write a paragraph about how she solved the problem. That started sometime in 2nd grade. That killed math for my DS. He hates writing so now he hates math. Thanks CC!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's good that the kids are given thoughtful word problems.

Except I happen to know that they're not being explained adequately in class... there is a wide chasm between the dumbed down worksheets and these word problems, and somehow the kids are expected to go from one to the other effortlessly.

Another example of poor math teaching.

Yes!!!

Elementary school teachers usually make the WORST math teachers. It is so sad the way it works in this country. Think about your average elementary school teacher: white suburban chick who avoided math in college and went into teaching because she "loves" kids. Most of them majored in a soft social science like psychology. And now we're entrusting her to foster the basic building blocks of math education which you need to be successful in so many fields from finance to engineering? It's really terrible.

Way to generalize, honey.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They need adult math classes so we can learn some things to teach the kids when they are stuck. Then again, if they try to figure it out themselves, that is a good thing.

If they want to learn math, look at the Asians math system. A lot of them are good at it. So, they must be doing something right.

Holy Stereotype, Batman. Who are you? Donald Trump??

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My DD has always done well in math, but this year suddenly she's saying she hates it. She brought home some worksheets that they were doing in class, and they seemed very confusing to me. For example, one was a word problem that required division, although it didn't use that word. It said someone had 100 pieces of candy and wanted to give five to each person in the class, and there are 25 people in the class. How many would each person get? Another said someone had 50 apples and wanted to put 2 in each basket, and so on. My DD had meticulously drawn out one hundred pieces of candy and then grouped them into 5's and done the whole thing that way...she actually got the answers right, but complained that it was hard. She has never learned either division or multiplication in school, and last year worked mostly with numbers less than 20, so this seems too difficult to me. Is your child doing work like this in 2nd? Do you think they could do it, if they did have it? This is public.

I wish my daughter would be given things like this in 2nd math. So far we have had THE SAME stupid worksheet for homework everyday M-Th. And the irony? So far 5 sheets have had serious blatent errors on them. Teachers are so f'ing lazy anymore.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes. Standard second grade curriculum.

It's early in the year. They're working on the concepts. It's about understanding what "division" means in real life. So it's more than just a mechanical function. The goal is for kids to experience division -- not just learn the rote rules.

More generally, it's ok that homework is hard sometimes. As a parent, our job is to teach our kids that it's ok to struggle with learning. It's ok to be confused. It's ok to have to think about things in different ways and keep coming back to it until we figure out how to do it. It doesn't mean we're dumb or that the work is too hard. Sometimes learning comes easily and sometimes it take more time. Both are ok. It's how we grow.

I'd worry less about whether she got the "right" answer and focus on encouraging her CURIOUSITY, her PERSISTENCE (not give up when things get hard) and her RESILIENCE (not letting it upset or get to her when things are difficult.) That's learning. Sometimes it's easy and sometimes it's hard. Either way, her brain is GROWING and getting STRONGER, and that's awesome.

Maybe think of an example in your own life when it took you awhile to learn something. Where you had to put in a lot of time and effort before something clicked for you. For me, it was weekly spelling words (never came easy) and later in law school (certain classes took months to click before they came together for me). But you're proud that you STUCK WITH IT and DIDN'T GIVE UP. That effort and mindset made you even smarter!!!

OP here - Let me be clear - this was NOT homework. This was done in class, with no assistance (30 kids in class), and she did not finish it, so it was sent home for her to finish.

I disagree with you that it is OK to struggle - if a child is asked to do a problem and doesn't have the tools to do it, it only leads to frustration. My DD did not feel good about getting the right answers. She said it was hard, and by hard she meant tedious and boring. She now hates math. So she isn't getting any pride from this at all.

Learning only occurs when a child struggles between current understanding and acquiring new knowledge. It is what Vygitsky called "The zone of proximal development."